Older bikes, good for touring?
 

Hello!


I'm currently in the process of finding myself a bike for an upcoming tour of Europe, 4 months, all over the place, mostly all tarmac.


I'd like to keep my purchase price low, so some of the bikes on my short list are older bikes, some almost vintage. To give you an idea, on my list there is a 1993 Yamaha TDM850 with 40k km. The bike has received full service and inspection, and nothing is wrong with it according to seller (probably a fellow HUBBer, he toured Europe with it, so I'm tempted to trust him).


So my question is, how old is too old for a bike to be used for an extended(ish) trip? Can an older bike be a reliable low maintenance option for a mechanical ignorant like me?


Thank you!

Old bikes are the best choise for big trips. Old technik is much easyer to repair in third world countrys then new electronic ons. Also all the problems of older bikes are well known but nobody knows the common problems of brand new bikes.

The transalp I used for Africa had 50.000 km when i bought it for 700 Euro and started to travel for two years. Now it has allmoast 200.000 and still running fine so im gettin ready to ride it to russia. I could also sell it for the same price now so no loss of vaue at all. Try this with a brand new BMW ;)

http://afrikamotorrad.de/?report=en_transafrika

The older TDM can consume a decent amount of oil. My friend bought a used TDM last year and rode of happily as the bike looked all right and seemed to be in a good condition for its age and runned distance. And the price wasnt bad either. The previous owner forgot to mention that the bike used a bit of oil and my friend was alittle ig orant with checking oil as none of his previous bikes had used oil. This resulted quite quickly to total failure of the engine. Even the warning light didnt come on before the whole shit gave up.

So check the engine for oil consumption ofte. so that you dont get any surprises during your long trip.....

Tobi! Yes I know which Transalp you talk about, we 've met in Huacachina, Peru ;)


Although you were not on the transalp (a small Honda if I remember well). I remember you showed my friend and I your pictures from your African trip around a good meal.


Thanks for your answer and nice to hear from you my friend :)

Thank you Snakeboy. Owner says the oil level never changes.

Haha small world yes i bought a bike in Southamerica to save shiping costs and im shure you will be fine with a TDM :)

The TDM should be a fine bike, design loosely based on older Brit twins but done much better. You will find it a relaxing ride, so stay wide awake :)

I have to say My Enfield is a fine touring bike, not really happy above 60MPH but superb below it, and being very frugal on the fuel is cheap to run, but the big plus is the range.

My three cylinder Thunderbird is entirely different... Both great bikes to ride.

From the spring of 1993 until today, that´s 22 full riding seasons, so 40k (kms?) would only make, on average, 1800 kms per year. Unless of course the bike has been in storage for several years, for example. Sounds kinda low for something that, by the seller´s admission, has been used for touring Europe, where you can easily cover that distance in 2-3 days. Not saying, that that reading is wrong, sometimes the bike is just one of the toys, and doesn´t get ridden much.. but I would look at the general condition of the bike, and wearing of its parts including the saddle, and brake discs, and then think, does that 40k really appear to be right.

Forget age...... You want to look at condition and the actual bike itself.

I personally think bikes from the 90's are the golden era for Overland bikes.

They are still simple and easy to work on with nothing that can't be fixed by a DIY mechanic given some time and a good manual. Yet still advanced enough to be smooth, powerful and reliable.

In my opinion they are also FAR FAR more robust and reliable than the stuff which is coming off the production lines today. Modern bikes are designed to be maintained by dealers with computers. Require specialised tooling for no reason other than to trap the home mechanic into returning to their dealer for simple repairs. They are made of mostly plastic and low grade alloys to speed up production and cut manufacture costs. The Quality Assurance is signed off by accountants instead of engineers. Modern stuff also has redundancy built into it. I know this is a FACT !! Manufacturers don't want you riding around on ten year old bikes when their new models are begging to be bought.

Ranting aside, I would be far happier to go touring on a 20 year old Honda than a 12 month old BMW...


And remember, just because a bike is newer does not make it less likely to be screwed. You can put 100,000 miles worth of wear on a bike in a fortnight is you ride it hard enough.

It's what you know and what equipment you have. Give me a 2013 machine and the full diagnostic kit every time, its far easier when the laptop does the work and parts are available. Take away the kit and training and yes, the generic machines you were trained on are easier. Go back beyond your comfort zone ( I hate *****y carbs with their poxy bits of rubber and fag packet adjustments) and you are just as stuffed only with worse parts availability.

My comfort zone is about 2008. Luckily the Guzzi tech is between 1908 and 2008.

Andy

No reason a carb shouldn't last almost forever as long as it's given correctly filtered fuel. They only go wrong when people mess about with them when they don't know what they're doing. 90% of carb faults are from sticking float valves which you can fix with a tap to the bowl lol....They last FAR FAR longer than fuel pumps, injectors, idle actuators, air control valves, lambda sensors. All the parts needed to keep the fuel injection running properly.

Fag packet adjustments hahah. When did you last see a bike with a set of points ??

For the last two years I've been diagnosing faults using computers and diagnostics kits. Fault codes are useless if you don't know how decode them.

And bikes generate random codes all the time. For loads of reasons. When I'd service a bike and read the fault memory, it could have 15-20 faults recorded and there be NOTHING wrong with the bike. Let your battery run flat and you will get endless control unit faults. Plug an accessory into a socket at the wrong time and it will tell you your central frame electronics is miss-communicating with your Kombie etc. TOTALLY misleading if you're not experienced with them.. It's really not road side stuff at all.

And these hand held readers generally do is just give you numbers unless you want to carry a big stupid tester with a laptop. Hardly lightweight travel.

And if your lucky enough to extrapolate the data correctly, where are you going to get that fuel pump controller, idle actuator or abs speed sensor from ???

An older bike will generally run on any coil if need be, carb can be fixed by anyone who can be bothered to clean it, you can jump or push start it with a flat battery and they are generally far more tolerant to low grade fuel, shit oil and abuse.


But anyway.. There are different trains of thought. Both have their pro's and cons..

I am trying to get my 2003 Thunderbird "fit for purpose" Ie touring.
I had to shim the rear sprocket to get the chain to run true, never seen or heard of that before, but a simple machining job on the lathe.

The thing that is proving top be difficult is it is fitted with a datatool 3 alarm. I want to remove it.

Triumphs have thrown away all the technical data on such an old product and can't help :( Thing is if the battery in the remote goes flat, or it dies in any way the bike is scrap. If the alarm fails ditto. It makes the bike apig to live with even with it all working. Lastly the alarm puts such a drain on the battery the charger keeps giving me an error code because it can't go into maintenance mode.

As things stand I will be using the Enfield next year for touring as I simply don't trust the Triumph not to leave me stranded.

This pretty much sums up all the electronically enhanced vehicles. They might work well but when they fail they die. I doubt many military spec vehicles are blessed with the emission controls of civilian vehicles. A failing big end on The Enfield in Poland was No problem at all as I just rode it home rattling. If I should tread on the remote for the alarm It would probably mean scrapping the bike.

Most Modern vehicles are just too fragile, they lack survivability.


EDIT UPDATE,.. The datatool has been removed with no trace of it on the bike. Battery now charges and goes into maintenance mode. I can use the bike wearing gloves.. Peace and happiness all around :) Now to make luggage racks for it.

If they are anything like the modern car even the dealers can't fix them that easily in lots of cases...and the modern diesel is absolutly screwed when they go wrong,almost like they built it with that intention..
Well chaps this is wonderful,we can have the injection pump gradually start to fail,the pieces can cause problems with the injectors,these will over fuel and leak into cylinders,sometimes melting pistons,sometimes just diluting the engine oil and having a slow death...the head furhers at audi,BMW,mercedes etc are probably very pleased their designers have built a car ats fu...d in 4 years...oh and I forgot to include the French I'm sure they can't be left out...

I am travelling around Southern Africa on a 1951 Harley, much modified for the trip but still old technology , including rigid frame , having as much fun as as Alex Jackson on his new KTM adventure, I do have to fettle a bit but keeps me busy in the evening , a great bike for Africa . Any bike will do , helps if you have a little knowledge about it though .

Gareth

Well thank you for your replies everyone.

I've been listening.

The sale of the TDM didn't fell through, but I found and bought a mint 1994 funduro, 50k miles. Definitely been in the hands of (a) careful owner(s). I have a sweet spot for torquey, smooth thumpers. :mchappy:

Hopefully it will prove to be a fun and reliable ride for my trip.

:thumbup1:

I have successfully removed all trace of the data tool alarm. So now pretty much good to go, just need to make a luggage system. (Triumph Thunderbird 900)

I love old bikes, but my problem has been finding parts for them. I'm still riding a pre 2008 KLR650, and parts have been easy to find. But go back to a KLR600, and it gets much harder. I also have an '01 XT225, and parts are still available for it. But I also recently sold a '79 DT250. It needed a new top end, and had been setting for 2 years because I was unable to find parts for it. Depends on the bike. The first gen KLR650 and the XT225 were both made for a long time, and have good support as far as parts and accessories go. Less popular older bikes won't have that.

I also have a 2013 Royal Enfield B5 Bullet. It's mostly my nice weather bike. It has FI, and I plan to replace that with a carb. I don't care for bikes I can't work on.

I've heard people say something similar many times and it's got me wondering. The counter argument is that FI (or any other electronics) is so reliable that you'll never need to work on it.

The thing is I've heard it all before. Back at the dawn of time, when everyone was riding old school Triumphs and stuff like that, (and presumably fixing them at every street corner with cigarette papers and a big hammer) people were saying exactly the same thing about the CB750 Honda - "great bike but so complicated; how can anyone fix that at home". These days of course that era is now seen as the good old days where everything was simple and easy. The bikes haven't changed so it must be in our perception. CB750s looked complicated compared to a side valve Harley but now they look simple compared to an R1.

Of course you couldn't do much to a CB750 or similar with cigarette papers and a big hammer, you'd need dwell meters, vacuum gauges, dial gauges if it was a two stroke, that kind of stuff - and some knowledge of how these things work. Are we in the same position now with FI and ECUs, where we just need a bit more knowledge, a laptop instead of a hammer, software in place of feeler gauges and an understanding of what's supposed to be going on.

It's the understanding bit that's the stumbling block. Much of the electronics side of things is seen as a "black box" mystery - wires go in, wires come out and what happens in the middle, well something, probably, I hope. Yet it can't be that complicated - can it? Anyone here regularly messing around with ignition or fueling maps, trying to get a few more mpg out of their Enfield (or any other FI bike). Every FI vehicle I've ever owned (cars or bikes) has been far more reliable than stuff with points and carbs (5 or 6 of them in the garage, none of which run atm, but at least I know where to pour the petrol) so there is something to be said for it.

How old is an older bike? To me 10 plus year's is an older bike but not an old bike. An old bike must be round the 40 year old mark, or a few year's younger. I've got a Honda that's knocking on 23 year's old, cir 1991. Is that old or older?


For what I paid for it, and for what it can do, was well worth the money. As for traveling on an older bike. The question is. What kind of use are you going to give it? My CBR 1000f is just a road bike. If any one want just a road bike to travel on, you can't go far wrong with any thing that carry's the CB logo. A by word for reliability, well built, easy spare's, and most places can fix them, if something goes wrong. Why do I still use my old Honda? Tank range is about 200 mile's, can eat the miles up. Riding solo, it will carry all your kit with soft bag's and a top box. Starts first time every time. Let me down once, but that turned out to be a corroded connector in the wiring loom. An easy fix once I found it.


So it's really up to you. What are you going to do with it, and how much have you to spend?
Any way I wish you well in your search.
John933