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-   -   No Love for WR250R? (https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/which-bike/no-love-for-wr250r-92201)

mollydog 1 Jul 2017 01:50

No Love for WR250R?
 
I don't see much written or reported from travelers riding the Yamaha WR250R.
Is it that some parts of the world can't get hold of this machine? Too expensive?
Or what?

Has the whole of the HUBB community all gone Cheap Chinese bikes now? :innocent:

Or is everyone too afraid to go anywhere? :eek3:

Seems the folks "at the top" are still buying new BMW GS's and 1290 KTM's. But not all have $25K USD to spend on a bike ... then another $4K or so to make it road worthy. (not a joke!) :innocent:

I'm shopping now for a WR250R and used ones are a bit pricey I guess. I'll keep at it, in the meantime I'd like to hear from other WR owners who have taken the bike out for some testing and torture.

How's it doing for 'ya all?

bier

mark manley 1 Jul 2017 07:52

What I have seen on here has been very positive but with a UK price of £7,500 when an F700GS BMW is only £8,300 I am not surprised few if anyone from the UK is riding one.

Tim Cullis 1 Jul 2017 10:23

The low weight is attractive, but even if the £7,549 price was more reasonable, the 7.5-litre fuel tank would eliminate it for me.

I'm not about to spend that much on a bike and then have to spend money getting it to a reasonable configuration.

mollydog 1 Jul 2017 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Cullis (Post 566240)
The low weight is attractive, but even if the £7,549 price was more reasonable, the 7.5-litre fuel tank would eliminate it for me.

I'm not about to spend that much on a bike and then have to spend money getting it to a reasonable configuration.

Surprised to see such prices in UK for used WR250R. As far as fuel range and small standard fuel tank ... AKAIK, most every dual sport bike out there requires a larger tank, especially KTM/Husky. Every bike needs upgrades ... whether a Chinese 250cc or $25K BMW GS. Setting a bike up for travel takes time, money and new parts! :smartass:

I've modified every bike I've ever owned ... as most here do.

But with 60 to 70 MPG, the WR250R goes far even with tiny standard 2.0 gal. tank. Many reports I've read (US/Canadian owners mostly) do well with stock tank, some returning 70 MPG. Others carry a Roto-pax tank or one gallon jug or bladder.

In any case, buying a larger fuel tank for the WR does not break the bank.
A couple hundred USD and you are there. Or ... you might even find a nice used one :thumbup1:

IMS (USA company) make two tanks for the WR250R:
IMS 3.0 US gallon ($247)
IMS 4.7 US gallon ($383)

The IMS is the most popular upgrade but also Safari make a tank. Safari are good but expensive here in USA.
Safari 3.7 US gallon ($574)

In grand scheme, seems the WR250R needs fewer "upgrades" than most other bikes out there. Many retain stock seat (hard to believe but true), many also stay with stock suspension. (I would not) The hard core WR owners do everything as they are pushing the bike into Pro Enduro type conditions.

IMO, this is great for us mere mortals to learn from (or old guys :wheelchair: )
Proves how good the bike actually is in tough conditions over time.

Elec. power output is fairly strong for a 250cc bike, so a good thing if powering heated gear/accessories.

Used WR's in USA are fairly high priced. From about $4000 up to $6000 for nice, low mile examples. They rarely drop below $3500 and tend to be well used. Good for long term, but means price of admission is high.
Worth it? I think so in this case ... as the bike is discontinued by Yamaha! :eek3:

Snakeboy 1 Jul 2017 21:16

I have no experiences whatsoever with the WR but it should be a very well suited travel bike afaik. With some upgrades of course. Bigger gas tank, seat, windscreen, better footpegs, handlebars, hand protectors, bash plate, luggage etc etc.
But it is quite expensive for what it is, no doubt about that. The Honda Crf 250L which looks to be 30-40-50 % cheaper seem to be more popular and more available too although the WR has better specs.

Would have been nice to see a thorough write up about the WR from someone who have used it on a long overland trip - as Mollydog asks for...

mollydog 1 Jul 2017 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snakeboy (Post 566285)
I have no experiences whatsoever with the WR but it should be a very well suited travel bike afaik. With some upgrades of course. Bigger gas tank, seat, windscreen, better footpegs, handlebars, hand protectors, bash plate, luggage etc etc.
But it is quite expensive for what it is, no doubt about that. The Honda Crf 250L which looks to be 30-40-50 % cheaper seem to be more popular and more available too although the WR has better specs.

Would have been nice to see a thorough write up about the WR from someone who have used it on a long overland trip - as Mollydog asks for...

Well no worries, we've got a few guys here riding the WR, so perhaps they'll post up something? I only put this thread up yesterday, so plenty of time to allow folks to chime it here.

Here in USA the Honda CRF250L is less money, but no where near 30% to 50%. Maybe 15% to 20% most. Lots of great deals here on used ones and deeply discounted on new ones too.

The WR250's are not discounted much at all from dealers, but some sellers of used ones eventually come down on price and take lower offers ... eventually!
:oops2:

tremens 1 Jul 2017 21:31

wr250r is discontinued by yamaha and IMO it was always overpriced so selling was not so good like e.g. crf250l.


Tim Cullis 1 Jul 2017 21:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by mollydog (Post 566276)
AKAIK, most every dual sport bike out there requires a larger tank, especially KTM/Husky.

Really? So why am I still riding my Morocco/Spain KTM 690 with the standard 11.7-litre tank? Over 25,000 km now.

Why did you made such a trolling post with your comments about Chinese bikes and suggesting people on HUBB are too afraid to go anywhere?

mollydog 2 Jul 2017 00:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by tremens (Post 566288)
wr250r is discontinued by yamaha and IMO it was always overpriced so selling was not so good like e.g. crf250l.

What year WR250R do you own (owned)? CRF250L?

Can you share a review of your experiences riding either bike here? Where did you buy yours?

As I already mentioned, Yamaha has priced their WR250R a bit higher than other Japanese 250's in the class. But "expensive" is a relative term, yes? Seems nearly ALL bikes are expensive now in 2017 ... especially the Euro gems.

At around $11K USD, the KTM and Husky 350's are the ones that are, IMO, truly expensive.

Heard rumors about WR being discontinued also. No news there. Whether or not it's for real remains to be seen.

Some say prices for used examples will go UP if discontinued, others claim prices will go down. I've no idea which way things will go.
What do you think? ?c?

bkm_br 2 Jul 2017 03:03

Here in Brazil (and most Latin America countries) we have the XTZ 250 Lander and the XTZ 250 Ténéré. A few years ago we also had the XTZ 250 X, a factory made motard conversion based on the regular Lander
Their engine is basically the same engine (249cc air cooled and fuel injected) of the XT250 of the american market. Almost 21 hp on a 143 kg (154 kg on the Tenere) bike and 11 liters fuel tank make them a really interesting option IMHO.

tremens 2 Jul 2017 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by mollydog (Post 566300)
What year WR250R do you own (owned)? CRF250L?

Can you share a review of your experiences riding either bike here? Where did you buy yours?

I have owned 2015 crf250l for a year, and it was pretty beaten up when I sold it. Under powered, soft (susp), heavy and delicate bike. The only good thing it was cheap - no, actually for riding to church on Sunday morning it was not that bad at all. :biggrin:

wr250r I have only test ridden, before I got crf250l, a bit stiffer suspension but still for me not good enough. I liked crf engine.torque better, wr you had to rev it. In Europe the price difference was huge, like almost 3k dollars. For few more HP and a bit better susp not worthy. Did I mention yamaha ugly dash display? Also reliability of wr250r dropped, fuel pump and stator failures for instance.

mollydog 2 Jul 2017 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by tremens (Post 566335)
I have owned 2015 crf250l for a year, and it was pretty beaten up when I sold it. Under powered, soft (susp), heavy and delicate bike. The only good thing it was cheap - no, actually for riding to church on Sunday morning it was not that bad at all. :biggrin:

wr250r I have only test ridden, before I got crf250l, a bit stiffer suspension but still for me not good enough. I liked crf engine.torque better, wr you had to rev it. In Europe the price difference was huge, like almost 3k dollars. For few more HP and a bit better susp not worthy. Did I mention yamaha ugly dash display? Also reliability of wr250r dropped, fuel pump and stator failures for instance.

All true and a good evaluation of the CRF250L! :D:D:D
It's true that neither CRF or WR has much power. Not ideal for any serious enduro riding (I prefer my old 2 strokes!)

Maybe in EU you can make road legal a Honda 450 CRF or WR450, convert to travel bike? Those bikes are cheap to buy used here in USA.

Correct, WR250's have had some issues but most owners have Zero problems based on the big ADV threads ... but the WR450's have been really good based on racer feed back ... even SuperMoto guys get a lot of life out of the 450 engine.

In USA it's now hard to make legal a 450 class bike if it was originally a race bike. The VIN gives it away and our DMV's block you registering it. So can be a dead end.

You can find road legal Husky or KTM in the 450 class, but new are over $10K USD and used ... tend to be quite used up. A good mechanic could rebuild an older KTM ... would be a great ADV bike, very good off road.

For me at this stage (:wheelchair: I don't need so much power ... but at times power is nice ... and the 450 is barely heavier than the 250! In deep sand I have struggled on a 250. Here the 450 just pulls through nicely. Big ups for that sort of use!

The advantages of the WR250R for me are: mostly very reliable, lighter than my DR650 by about 70 lbs. Great elec. output, good to load up with luggage. Tough. Gearing is highway friendly, can cruise beautifully at 65 to 70 MPH all day and it's easy to gear lower for off road. (change front sprocket) Lots I DO NOT know about the WR at this point ... hoping to learn more here on this thread.

You are correct ... (or so I've heard) that the WR250R needs revving to make power. I did not test the WR in serious off road so can only rely of comments of other WR riders who verify this shortcoming. With a loaded up bike for travel, this could be a Black Mark if in challenging, super steep uphill terrain. So not perfect ...

But I'm just not going to pay for a KTM or Husky. My travel bikes are EXPENDALE and will live a hard life ... then die. So better to sacrifice a relatively inexpensive USED bike than an expensive KTM or Husky.
bier

tremens 2 Jul 2017 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by mollydog (Post 566342)
But I'm just not going to pay for a KTM or Husky. My travel bikes are EXPENDALE and will live a hard life ... then die. So better to sacrifice a relatively inexpensive USED bike than an expensive KTM or Husky.
bier

I hear you, I am close to get new ktm 500 exc 2017 or Beta 480RR (both street legal) and yes they're damn expensive for throwing around in dirt :( But buying used dirt bike is kinda risky.

They're actually more expensive then my adventure bikes, weird...

tremens 2 Jul 2017 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by mollydog (Post 566342)
For me at this stage (:wheelchair: I don't need so much power ... but at times power is nice ... and the 450 is barely heavier than the 250! In deep sand I have struggled on a 250. Here the 450 just pulls through nicely. Big ups for that sort of use!

exactly, I don't need tons of power either, but some practical minimum is necessary, especially when bike is heavy like crf250l. I have changed front and rear sprocket (13/42) to be able ride in sand at all but still bike was shaking and baking in deep s#$t. It's a shame there is no dual sport bike with proper power to weight ratio and we have to buy racing bikes. Actually the closest match would be DRZ400, only it's dated a bit.

Livotlout 4 Jul 2017 17:30

WR250R.

Cons. : Cost (in UK)
Service Interval - 3000 mile for lube
Water Cooled.

Pros : Power
Light Weight
Powerful Generator

I have a TT250R :mchappy:

mollydog 4 Jul 2017 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livotlout (Post 566444)
WR250R.

Cons. : Cost (in UK)
Service Interval - 3000 mile for lube
Water Cooled.

Pros : Power
Light Weight
Powerful Generator

I have a TT250R :mchappy:

If buying in the UK, no question the little XT's and TTR 250's are the go. I've heard many positive reviews on these simple, tough and reliable bikes. :thumbup1:

You can buy a new XT250 here in USA but they aren't all that cheap used.

The service interval for Oil change at 3K miles is about right ... and I'd follow that number for most dual sport singles. (including my DR650) With quality
synthetic oil you may push that interval in mild, slow riding.

One note on the WR250R is valve check interval. 26,000 miles. :D
Most find valves in spec at that time. But not as easy to do as on your TT, XT's or DR650!

Water cooled. As rider of DR650 (Oil/Air cooled) I can relate to this, love simplicity of air cooled.

So yes, Water Cooled can be a negative, but not so much if you add radiator guards. In all my reading up on WR I've come across very few busted Radiators due to crash damage ... but of course ... can happen.
You can also bust a hose, have a water pump fail. Rare, but could happen.

Power: Yes, for a stock 250, WR is not too bad, but there are many 250's that make more power. Most KTM or Husky put out more HP ... but not reliable going 30,000 miles without much care. And, of course all two strokes make more power too.

The good news on the WR is that it makes fair power but still returns good economy. (60 to 70 MPG, depending)

Weight:
The WR is lighter than my DR650 ... but it's not all that light compared to some other more race oriented bikes. In fact, I'm thinking your TTR may weigh less than the WR250R?? (not sure) Good news for me is that the WR "feels" lighter than my DR650 (in fact, WR is about 70 lbs. lighter than my DR650!) and I can actually lift it up easily! :D

Generator output is a big plus to me too. My DR only puts out 200 Watts total.

Comfort:
I'll add this in. For a stock bike, the WR is quite comfortable. Add a seat pad or Seat Concepts ... and you've got close to all day comfort. I was shocked how OK the stock seat felt.

But the real advantage (IMO) the WR250 has over many other 250's in the class is suspension and chassis design. For a stock 250 the suspension is not too bad and chassis really handles well.

The rear shock needs work but the forks only need a lighter oil and some careful adjustment. The shock is harsh ... needs a re-valve. But most ALL bikes need suspension work, so no surprise. WR Handles rough tracks better than many other bikes ... even larger, fancy $$$$ bikes. Tracks straight over ruts, goes where you point it. Very easy to ride off road, no stress.

Cost:
Even in USA/Canada the WR250R is quite expensive, either new or used.
But if you're in for the long haul, probably worth the price if you use the bike
as intended.

bier

Island Hopper 5 Jul 2017 07:32

A bunch of my friends have gone to the WR 250s now, most of these guys are into their 60s and looking for something a little lighter.. I helped a friend set his up for Adventure by adding the bigger of the 2 IMS tanks which really extended the reach of the bike and I also helped him with luggage ideas..

I rode one up a very steep rocky climb for another friend who had tired himself out and the bike did ok, even for my 200+lbs.. The WRs that my group have picked up used here usually run between $4000-$5000 CAD and are low mileage examples... I could of picked up a good luggage equipped unit last year with low mileage for $4200.. Personally I am waiting for something in the 400CC range, if Yamaha puts out something similar in that size I would be all over it..

In B.C. it costs the same to insure a 400 as it does a 250 so it makes sense to go with the bigger displacement and have a less stressed engine for loaded up travel... A couple guys from Vancouver are touring some of the rough bits of the planet on a pair of the WRs and have done OK, though at times they were wishing for more poke... One of the bikes suffered a meltdown at around 30,000 KM and required a full engine rebuild, the other I believe is still on original engine parts.. All in all a good bike that could be a great bike with 30% more displacement..

mollydog 6 Jul 2017 04:54

Yea, it could use more poke for sure. And yes, better old guy bike! (I hope)
Yamaha fans been begging for a WR450R for years. So far, Yamaha has not responded. :(

I believe it's because they can't sell a 450 as easily in World Markets like they can the 250. USA/Canada too small a market to justify big investment.

There are thousands of posts on ADV Rider about WR250R engine upgrades, with several kits available up to about 330cc. (at least 3 different kits out there that I've read about) I've read at least 10 reports from guys who've done it.
Mostly all good feedback.

I've no idea how much better a 330cc kit would be ... and of course guys who did it rave about how much better it is. Natural bias? :cool4:
it's hard to know just how much better it might be. :innocent:

But to me, more important issue would be ... is the engine reliable with an over bore? Using a non stock piston/ring set? I seriously question critical NON Japanese internal engine parts. Seen a few failures on other bikes.

Fine for the Weekend warrior, but maybe not for the RTW traveler? :confused:
I'd need convincing to go the overbore kit route ... but it could happen I guess.

Will be interesting to see what bikes in this CC range come along. I'm betting Chinese OEM's have they're eye on things in this segment. But poor marketing and basically no one trusts Chinese bikes, no matter how cheap. Shame, cause I know a few are far better than a few years ago.

Our moto reality is changing fast. Who knows what is coming down the line.

Not so much a concern for me, I buy used ... so limited to established, proven ... and not too expensive bikes. WR250R has been around unchanged since '08 with a very solid reputation. bier

tremens 6 Jul 2017 17:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by mollydog (Post 566546)
Yamaha fans been begging for a WR450R for years. So far, Yamaha has not responded. :(

yeah, yamaha and honda suck big time recent years (suzuki, kawaski are not better) Currently I'm about to get to KTM 500 exc because nothing to choose from Japanese companies. As you said we asked for lighter ~500cc dual sport bike and we got nothing from ymaha. From honda we got even bigger, heaver Africa Twin :thumbdown:

mollydog 7 Jul 2017 18:27

The KTM 500 is an amazing bike! A good friend has one and he is blown away every time he rides it. It is not the perfect travel bike ... but can be adapted if you are willing to put in the effort.

I rode it briefly ... loved it .. but the power was a bit overwhelming for this old,
retired dirt bike guy. Good news was the handling was stellar ... but I could never, ever use all that power.

Sadly, ALL the big four Japanese companies currently have excellent 450 MX bikes which all could be modified to great 450cc ADV Travel bikes.

Honda and Yamaha both did this with their CRF-L and WR250R bikes. Why not do the same with their 450's? Everyone has been asking this same question for years ... so far no response from any of the big 4.

If I could afford a KTM 500EXC, I'd buy one. We see used ones once in a while in the $8000 USD range (rare) new ones go for around $10K USD, plus lots of extra fees and taxes. Figure $12 USD on the road.

I'm looking at several used WR250's, under 2500 miles, less than 2 years old, in the $4500 to $5500 USD range.

bier

bkm_br 10 Jul 2017 13:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by mollydog (Post 566645)
Honda and Yamaha both did this with their CRF-L and WR250R bikes. Why not do the same with their 450's?

Probably because the price range on those bikes would be very similar to the price range on the 600cc range bikes thus cannibalize sales. An Yamaha XT450 would probably cost almost the same as the XT660 if you count development and marketing costs for the newer bike, and most buyers would prefer the 660 over the 450 (a better "horsepower for the buck" since most of the regular buyers focus on horsepower over weight).

mollydog 10 Jul 2017 18:55

What about producing in Brazil?
 
In Honda's case, perhaps they could use their Brazilian factory to produce a "new" 450 Dual Sport based on Thai made CRF250L. It would not have to cost the same as the CRF450R Moto Cross race bike, could be a "budget" rally version dual sport, not a race bike. Build it in Dakar guise, all road amenities, high elec. output, good suspension.

Adventure bikes are THE HOT BIKE now, so does not matter if a new bike steals from other segments. This new segment is a gift for the big 4 ... brought to them by BMW and KTM!

Honda could also produce a 450 dual sport in Thailand as they are already set up there for the current CRF250L. The 450 would be "for export only" to keep taxes down, so not sold locally.

But go further, set the bike up for long range ADV travel. Like a mini Africa Twin on a budget. They could do it and IMO, would sell well in EU, USA and Canada if done well.

Previous small, Brazilian produced Hondas have done well and are still sold all over Latin America and plenty of used CRF230's here in USA, both street legal and off road versions. Very solid bikes which started production in Brazil over 10 years ago.

You guys still get the wonderful Tornado Hondas I believe?? a 250 and 400cc versions? (can't recall name of other bike)

Not sure what sort of manufacturing facilities Yamaha have outside Japan, but it's likely they are already set up in Thailand (all other big four companies are).

Honda saw the future over 20 years ago and began setting up manufacturing world wide. (Brazil, USA, Thailand ... more?)
I was in Thailand 20 years ago when Honda first started production there. They produced a lot of 125cc 2 stroke dual sport bikes then. I rented one, rode it all over Thailand for 2 weeks. :thumbup1:

Kawasaki produces KLR's and Versys (and others) there since 10 years now.
Suzuki produced cars there, not sure what bikes they make in Thailand.
Suzuki assemble bike in Colombia and produce some products in S. Korea where they produced cars (and lots of bike parts)

Snakeboy 10 Jul 2017 19:26

The brasilian made Honda 300 is called XRE https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_XRE300
Its fuel injected, but have only a 5 speed gearbox. I think it took over for the Tornado in 2009. The chilean police (Carabineros) uses a lot of them I have noticed.

Yes many motorbike manufacturers make/assemble/produce some/many of their models in Thailand. Honda makes their Crf 250s there, the 500 range, the NC 700/750s, the four cylindred 650 I bekive too. Kawasaki make their 650s there, ER650, Versys 650, I think they also make their 300s there. Ducati makes several of their models in Thailand, Im not 100 % sure of which models but at least the scramblers. Triumph also make some of their models in Thailand and quite recently Harley D revealed that they will open a assembling fabric in Thailand. So very many bike models from several manufacturers are made/assembled in Thailand. And as far as I know there isnt issues about quality on Thailand made/assembled bikes.
Shouldnt be much of a problem to make another model there such as what for example what Mollydog mentions....

mollydog 10 Jul 2017 23:43

Wow! had not heard Ducati were manufacturing in Thailand. :thumbup1:

I forgot to mention Triumph. Most ALL Triumphs now made in Thailand and Triumph staff RAVE about the high quality produced there. So yes, no problems with Thailand production quality ... they are now a MAJOR player in the Moto
world. :mchappy:

PS, Kawi also make their ancient KLR650 lump there as well bier

I did not know about the XRE300 Honda. Still in production in Brazil? What other bikes are Honda making now in Brazil besides that 300?

Point is ... Honda have no real good excuse for not producing a 450cc dual-sport ADV bike. doh

bkm_br 11 Jul 2017 03:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snakeboy (Post 566821)
The brasilian made Honda 300 is called XRE https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_XRE300
Its fuel injected, but have only a 5 speed gearbox. I think it took over for the Tornado in 2009. The chilean police (Carabineros) uses a lot of them I have noticed.

Yes you are right, the XRE 300 is nothing more than a Tornado with different fairings, 5 speed gearbox, engine stroked to 291cc and a very basic fuel injection, but this bike (together with the CB300R who was discontinued and was replaced by the new CB 250 twister not long ago in Brazil) have HUGE reliability problems and a very, very, bad reputation in Brazil.

This engine in the 291cc configuration have a really bad tendency to develop a really hard valve knocking even on new bikes, and because of this there's a lot of reports of those engines having developing serious problems like cylinder head cracks. If you look for "xre cabeçote trincado" (cabeçote trincado in portuguese means cylinder head cracks) on facebook, google or youtube you gonna find thousands of people with bikes plagued with the cracked cylinder head "curse. The XRE 300 is almost universally hated in the motorcycle community in Brazil because of that. Some people solved the problem with this engine reducing the compression ratio (in the brazilian specs the stock compression ratio is 9:1, people usually reduces that to 8:1) but this as a consequence reduces the HP.

mollydog 11 Jul 2017 03:51

Whoa! That is some scary news!
I wonder if that 300 was exported all over the world (mainly Latin America)

The USA did get the early bikes from years ago (150, 230) and they were very reliable. Shame about these XRE 300. Sounds like Honda sent the Japanese Honda Quality control guys back home! :oops2:

bkm_br 11 Jul 2017 03:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by mollydog (Post 566816)
You guys still get the wonderful Tornado Hondas I believe?? a 250 and 400cc versions? (can't recall name of other bike)


In the past this was true, not now a days, since Honda discontinued the 400cc NX4 Falcon and replaced it with the XRE 300 (a bike plagued with problems) Yamaha started do develop a big lead over Honda with the 250cc Lander and Tenere (both also made in Brazil).

IMO the best bike Honda had for this segment was the older NX350 Sahara, a really simple, strong and sturdy carburated 350cc RFVC engine, 6 speed gearbox, a "dakar style" original fairing, 14 liters fuel tank and weighted just 140 kg. Later on the Sahara evolved to the now discontinued NX4 Falcon (the engine was stroked to 400cc but just a 5 speed gearbox and no "rally fairings").

Now a days the best "bang for the buck" in this segment in Brazil is Yamaha's 250cc Tenere.

bkm_br 11 Jul 2017 04:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by mollydog (Post 566850)
Whoa! That is some scary news!
I wonder if that 300 was exported all over the world (mainly Latin America)

No, just Latin America, but in most countries Honda have operations in Lat. Am. operates they still sells the carburated XR250 Tornado as well.

The XRE 300 is probably gonna be replaced soon with something visually similar to the Honda's CX-02 concept and using the same engine as the new CB 250 Twister, but officially they haven't said a word about it. If they realase a new bike this gonna probably happen during the "Salão Duas Rodas" bike show in November.

Snakeboy 11 Jul 2017 06:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkm_br (Post 566849)
Yes you are right, the XRE 300 is nothing more than a Tornado with different fairings, 5 speed gearbox, engine stroked to 291cc and a very basic fuel injection, but this bike (together with the CB300R who was discontinued and was replaced by the new CB 250 twister not long ago in Brazil) have HUGE reliability problems and a very, very, bad reputation in Brazil.

This engine in the 291cc configuration have a really bad tendency to develop a really hard valve knocking even on new bikes, and because of this there's a lot of reports of those engines having developing serious problems like cylinder head cracks. If you look for "xre cabeçote trincado" (cabeçote trincado in portuguese means cylinder head cracks) on facebook, google or youtube you gonna find thousands of people with bikes plagued with the cracked cylinder head "curse. The XRE 300 is almost universally hated in the motorcycle community in Brazil because of that. Some people solved the problem with this engine reducing the compression ratio (in the brazilian specs the stock compression ratio is 9:1, people usually reduces that to 8:1) but this as a consequence reduces the HP.

Have heard that the XRE had some problems but I didnt know they were that bad. Its a shame they cant make a decent 3-500 ccm bike nowadays.

Have seen some brand new Honda Crf 190 or XR 190 or whatever the letters in front were here in Chile where I am for the moment. Looks cool but its a small displacement bike anyhow.

Back to Thailand - of all the models that are made there I havent heard of any major problems. Build quality seems good and most peolpe like their bikes even though made in Thailand.
There have been speculations even here on HUBB that Honda will make a new Dominator. Personally I dont think they will be able to make a single cylindred 6-700 ccm bike that can pass through the last Euro emissions standards. Im more into that they will make a new Transalp. The last Transalp model was 700 ccm and I really dont know if they will make it smaller than that. And if so - it will most likely be a new +200 kilo bike. Do we really need that? I wish and pray for a 4-500 ccm, max 150 kilo, 500 kms range bike from Honda. That would have been something...

cardpostale 11 Jul 2017 13:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark manley (Post 566237)
What I have seen on here has been very positive but with a UK price of £7,500 when an F700GS BMW is only £8,300 I am not surprised few if anyone from the UK is riding one.

Hello Mark!

I ride a WR250R! And it is an amazing bike :
- almost as light and good offroad as an endure bike
- will ride all day long at 110 km/h if needed
- just needs an oil change every 6000 kms and a spark plug every 12000 kms.

Comparing a WR250R and a CRF250 side by side makes you immediately understand why the WR is more expensive. It is a very well made bike and I love it

Cheers

Guillaume

bkm_br 11 Jul 2017 14:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snakeboy (Post 566857)
Have seen some brand new Honda Crf 190 or XR 190 or whatever the letters in front were here in Chile where I am for the moment. Looks cool but its a small displacement bike anyhow.

Probably is the XRE 190. Honda released last year in Brazil the XRE 190, is basically an 190cc grown up version of the older Honda Bros (that began as a carburated 125cc, grow up to fuel injected 150cc and now also have a fuel injected 160cc engine). The engine that Honda uses on the XRE 190 is the same as the CB190R already for sale in Chile btw.

bkm_br 12 Jul 2017 03:09

BTW, Royal Enfield have the Himalayan, a 411cc bike that seams promising even if a little underpowered (about 25 hp on the carburated indian specs), having only 5 speed gearbox and a little heavy IMO (about 180kg), but has plenty of torque available (32Nm) and a good(ish) size fuel tank (15 liters). Here a video review I found about it on youtube. Here another video I found about it.

Snakeboy 12 Jul 2017 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkm_br (Post 566922)
BTW, Royal Enfield have the Himalayan, a 411cc bike that seams promising even if a little underpowered (about 25 hp on the carburated indian specs), having only 5 speed gearbox and a little heavy IMO (about 180kg), but has plenty of torque available (32Nm) and a good(ish) size fuel tank (15 liters). Here a video review I found about it on youtube. Here another video I found about it.

Theres several threads about the Enfield Himalayan here on the forum. I like the idea about an "adventurised" Royal Enfield but the current product doesnt seem to be very well made.

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...ressions-86582

I think I will stick to the Bullet if I ever was to buy a RE... :-)

bkm_br 12 Jul 2017 21:17

The Himalayan seems like a new bike, the first 2 or 3 model years of any bike are generally the worst bikes you can have, maybe when they tune in the bike may be a reliable option.

But maybe someday Yamaha will release the bike I always wanted since I first see it, the XTW250 Ryoku

mollydog 13 Jul 2017 04:34

I don't know for fact, but seems Indian production is trending UP in quality and innovation fast. The fact BMW and KTM have set up production there, partnering with ... ?? somebody??, IMO, all very good news for Enfield's future.

Hopefully they can ride Euro technological coat tails toward Indian modernization and move to higher quality products overall, like other Asian countries. I think India could really break out and do great things in future. (but with the wise move away from Fossil fuels ... motorbikes as we know them may dissapear :( )

Maybe Enfield could partner with Triumph? ... and truly modernize the Enfield?
Triumph could use the Enfield brand to launch a "classic" developing world All Electric model. Low Cost, unbreakable and practical??

Of course, many here will miss the "old" Enfields. I rode an old one years ago, fun and pure nostalgic experience. Hundreds of Hubbers have toured India on the original Enfield. A part of India motoring history ... bier

bkm_br 13 Jul 2017 13:30

My hope that this new "India trend" for the big motorcycle manufactures will increase the variety and reduce the price of bikes in a near future. In a country with 1.3 billion people for sure they have a demand for any kind of bike imaginable.

But anyways, the scenery looks very promising in the near future for small displacement adv bikes, with the introduction of the BMW 310 GS, the KTM 390 Adventure, Kawasaki Versys 300 and Suzuki V-Storm 250 the market will be much better served with small displacement adv bikes.

bkm_br 13 Jul 2017 13:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by mollydog (Post 566982)
Maybe Enfield could partner with Triumph? ... and truly modernize the Enfield?

Very unlikely. The company who owns Royal Enfield (Eicher Motors) invested a buttload of money in the company not long ago, including a brand new production plant and a new twin cylinder engine for the new Continental GT (a factory cafe racer bike). The RE also seems to be selling well in the west thanks to the "retro revival".

Chris Scott 19 Sep 2017 16:27

Quote:

...Or is everyone too afraid to go anywhere?
What, like beyond the HUBB you mean? Only you, pal ;-)

Plenty of travellers on WRs.
I did 4000km in Morocco last March.

Short version:
• Got it vanned to Malaga and back. Could not face crossing Spain and back
• Once loaded + me, need to cane it to get anywhere (don’t recall CRF-L or KLX feeling the same)
• Light weight is all very well, but even at 6’ 1’’, the tall saddle is a pain (can be lowered)
• Suspension is of course, brilliant, compared to stock CRF-L (mine had Hyperpro)
• Amazingly economical: 550km to a tank. Fuel Log
• Still have back pain months later from the stock saddle
• Build quality explains the price over a CRF-L… almost
• Great alternator output for the cc and age
• Fuel pump worries in hot conditions (played up but never went)
• Clearly suited to predominantly off-highway travels

Long version here

Little changed in 10 years, but from 2018 they no longer list the WR-R in the US or Ozzie. End of the line for the WR.
After a KLX and XRs and CRF-L, I have concluded that 250s, ever the WR, aren’t the do-it-all bikes that I was hoping for.
Love the lightness but prefer a bigger single and lower seat.
Will be trying a 500EXC bike after next, but not expecting it to be a viable travel bike for me.

I’ve read the explanations, but go ahead and sell us a CRF450L anyway (there is talk of one), or a WR450R (there isn’t).

blauereiter 3 Oct 2017 00:40

I've got a WR that I was gearing up for rtw, but I never really got on with it. Like Chris said, it does seem like you always have to keep the revs up which isn't the greatest when you just want to chill out a bit.

I was able to do a short test ride of the crf250 rally yesterday and was surprised at how it compared. It felt a bit cheaper, but I think I liked it better.

mollydog 3 Oct 2017 01:25

Well, if you settle on the CRF you will save quite a bit over WR. Several minter CRF's around San Fran Bay area for great prices lately. In our used market the CRF is generally a $1000 to $1500 less than comparable WR250R.

Main PRO's I've heard suggest in slow, rough, technical going the CRF is the easier bike to ride (stock for stock) as it's got better bottom end grunt.

I figure simple gearing change (lower) will bump WR ahead of the CRF in such conditions. All the WR guys agree WR gearing is too tall .. so lower gearing on the menu'.

But yes, you may have to rev it more off road to make it on certain trails, but of ALL the dozens of videos I've viewed the WR positively EATS UP nasty trails! :D

I've ridden both bikes and as I said, liked WR a lot more than the CRF. But CRF was ridden months before from WR test ride. Both only 1/2 hour rides ... so not definitive.

I was really surprised how strong the WR was on Freeway with traffic moving at 70 mph. But the used WR I tested had an FMF full system with power bomb and a fuel controller. So maybe that's part of why it felt so much stronger than the 100% stock CRF250L I rode with about 4000 mi. on the clock?

It's obvious none of the 250 dual sports are ideal for traversing Texas highways ... or riding UK to Morocco via Peage/Autopista. In France motorway speeds are
90 mph to 100 mph. Lower in Spain but no one is hanging around. On a 250 you better STAY FAR TO THE RIGHT ... and watch your mirrors.

But fact is, once you get to most destinations (especially "3rd world") average speeds come DOWN. In Latin America on most rural roads speeds are 35 mph up to about 50 mph. There are a few fast highways but not many.

Asia has fast bits but all the good stuff, like Golden Triangle area, was 30 to 50 mph average. Not sure about Africa, only ridden Morocco a tiny bit.

With the WR I'm hoping to be able to ride the more technical bits of Baja with friends and not struggle so much ... or as much as I now do on my faithful DR650.

Mind, the DR650 can do A LOT of Baja without issue but it's that 10 to 15% that gets me. Seems like not a big deal ... but a couple hours of struggle and misery can ruin my whole day.

YES, I need to lose weight and get stronger. In the meantime, I'd love to at least try out the WR250R on a couple long dual sport trips and see how I do. Just have to find a place to store it! Thanks to Chris for all the great Morocco and Africa feed back on so many bikes! bier

dfoustou 22 Oct 2017 01:14

I loved my stolen WR250R. She was a great bike for long distance riding. I had the 4.7 gallon tank, 14-tootk front sprocket, wide footpegs, aux. headlights, and raised handlebars. Tank range was 200-250 miles depending on the quality of the gas, and she didn't complain at 10000rpm for hours and hours. Light, easy to maintain, very simple and with a nice torque. For sure she is much better than CRF250L.

Here at the US the used ones go for $3500.

From what I read the Himalayan is slightly heavier and with less power.

In short, the WR is in my heart.

What a great forum!

-dionysis

tohellnback 20 Aug 2021 16:15

tornado
 
I don't know where you could buy a new 250 tornado in SA
In Colombia 2016 is the newest used you can buy , It comes with rear drum brakes
I saw one in the buy and sell that had rear disk that was converted from a DR 650
The xre three hundred is everywhere in Colombia

Snakeboy 20 Aug 2021 17:23

Current Honda dual sport models in Colombia, no Tornado:

https://motos.honda.com.co/motos-honda/todo-terreno

tohellnback 20 Aug 2021 17:55

tornado
 
Si not available in Co Argentina yes
I still can't believe that honda makes a 250 with drum brakes
No thanks ill stick to disks
But it doesn't come as a surprise You can buy a brand new Toyota Hilux with rear drums It is standard with TRD stickers and all the bell and whistles
I believe these are assembled in Argentina

Chris Scott 22 Aug 2021 10:39

Things boiled over here from possibly non-native English-speaking contributors and due to a couple of overlooked words.
I edited Cholo's post to add clarity [It has since been deleted by Cholo but is visible in SB's quote and reply]

I've ridden many 1000s of kms on the Tornados in Morocco and sure wish the machine was still sold there.
So it's great to see it still available in a few places in SA, even if it may only be as a rental to foreigners and not the best thing above 2000m asl.

Reminder: this thread is actually about WR250s - also a great small travel bike but discontinued a year or two back.

Tim Cullis 23 Aug 2021 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by tohellnback (Post 622183)
I don't know where you could buy a new 250 tornado in SA

Argentina, apparently. Choice of red, black or white, around 650,000 pesos, so about $6,600US.

It's weird how foreign subsidiaries are able to go their own way, a bit like Yamaha and the XT660Z developed in Italy.

Grant Johnson 30 Aug 2021 00:42

Snakeboys post is now gone too, as he was overboard on his reply to Cholo. sigh...

come on guys, play nice, remember it's the web and your expression/body language/tone of voice is not visible, so you need to be CRYSTAL CLEAR in your communications, careful wording, use of emoticons etc.


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