Need advice on bike choice!
 

This is my first post in this forum but i have been an avid reader of people's stories and blogs for over a year. I am a 25 year old experienced traveler. The stories here have inspired me to travel to every country in the eu by motorbike starting and finishing in london. I will spend about 3 months doing this on my own or with a friend for some parts of the trip. I have never ridden a motorbike before. I intend to complete a direct access course, practise for about a month and then set off. I have very little interest in riding fast and will for the most part be avoiding motorways. It should however be powerful enough to survive mountainous roads. I will only be riding on roads but would like the bike to have some limited off road credibility so i can set off down tracks and trails that take my fancy. The bike should be light and easy to handle but be able to take me (5'10" 90kg guy) with (light) camping gear etc. Also at present i know nothing about the mechanics of a bike so reliability is important.

I apologise for the rambling nature of the post. I would appreciate your thoughts and advice. I am thinking of a 250 or 400, don't want any bigger than that.

budget: 2000-2500 pounds!!

Thanks,
Martin

why so small?
 

If you are planning on being mainly on-road the engine characteristics of a smaller crosser-style bike might get to be a pain. Plus finding a 200-400cc bike that can handle luggage might be tricky (i.e. require rear subframe reinforcement). Based on what you said you wanted the bike for my first thought was 'Honda Transalp', great all-rounder, fairly light, some off-road capability, set-up for touring.

More off-road biased would be the Honda Dominator (650 single again), great bike and you can pick them up cheap as chips.

Going down in engine size and up in off-road capability my 400 of choice would be a DRZ 400, but this is a proper off-road machine, doing a lot of road miles might get tiresome (no screen).

The ultimate on road bike with off-road capability (esp if you weigh 90KG) is, of course the classic Cagiva Elefant. I think someone might even be selling one LOL!!

Hondas do have THE reputation as the ultimate bike for people who do not like maintenance - they just keep on plugging!

Check out new Yamaha YBR250, looks like a nice low cost "touring" bike (fuel injection and 19l tank so should give 500+ km range, low weight). Cost of new one is probably less than £3000.

I also like smaller bikes. My first ride on a motorbike was on YBR125 and that is also very fun small bike (for me it was a bit too small as I'm about 190cm). If you want to wander on secondary roads with reasonable amount of gear, YBR250 is worth checking.

I own Suzuki DR-Z400S and for pavement I can't recomment it. Only if you want to ride 75% or more off pavement then it might be your choice.

Ccm 404
 

The CCM 404 has the same engine as the DRZ but with better suspension from White Power and it is put together in Britain.
I mention it because CCM (Clewes Competition Machines) does not get much discussion in HU!

Other than that, you can read into the mega-threads that have discussed a whole range of bikes - there is a thread specifically about 250cc bikes from memory. Use the search facility that is in this website, or just look back through this forum: "which bike".
Also, have a look at the thread about the KTM Military 400cc bike in that tech forum.
When you've done that, you will have lots more questions. :rolleyes2:

So, :welcome: to HU and read on!

Within Europe and with limited off-road I'd have to say go bigger than you are planning. Don't worry, a circa 600cc bike is well within the capabilities of a new rider.

As you'll be mostly on good roads I'd go for something quite road orientated. A bike like my XT for instance, is a bit rough and ready and lacking in suitable weather protection for long road rides to make it ideal.

If it were me I'd go with maybe a Kawasaki KLE (nice little 500 twin), a Honda Transalp, or even better, a Honda Africa Twin.

Matt :)

Martin,

Welcome. I'm currently looking for a mid-size dual-sports bike and I'm coming down in favour of a KLE, Transalp, or Dominator. Lots of used examples around, your local bike shop can service it, and getting luggage shouldn't be a problem. Plus they have that legendary Japanese reliability.

If you're new to bikes, an Africa Twin or Varadero might feel too big. Remember too that weight distribution and seat height on a dual-sports or off-roader is higher than the road bike you'll learn on and can feel tricky at low speeds.

I did think of the BMW F650GS but a thread on here was quite critical and has put me off a bit and they tend to be pricier.

Look on ebay, there a quite a few KLEs around, '05-'07, low mileage, for around £1800-2500, older Transalps and Dominators for much less. Look at a few, if it doesn't feel right, walk away, another will come along.

If you decide on a road bike, you'll probably learn on a CB500. That or a Fazer, Hornet, or Bandit would be fine.

Good luck, let us know how it goes.

Indoors.

Hi Martin,
setting yourself quite a challenge, and there is nothing wrong with that.

Europe has very fast moving traffic and riding a lower capacity bike has some draw backs, overtaking trucks for instance. Having said that speed enforcement is a bigger priority in many countries now. But nether the less keeping up with the traffic on a 400 is hard work. I would consider a 600 as a minimum and a twin would make life a little easier.

If you are completely new to motorcycle touring / maintenance try a couple of shorter trips, get feel for what you can handle and enjoy.

It’s taken me 30 years to visit them all, so I am sure you can beat that :)

Steve

cheers for the advice
 

Thanks so much for all the advice. Really is appreciated, never experienced a forum with so many active members that isn't cliquey or anti-beginner! I am considering a trip around scotland (my fathers homeland) to test myself and my equipment before the bigger trip. I guess i have a further question. i am not a speed freak and returning home safely having seen and experienced the destinations and its people is my most important priority. i am just concerned by the constant warnings about buying too big a bike too soon and the inexperienced idiots starting their bike on youtube who are left with a broken tailbone whilst their 10k sports bike disappears towards the horizon. Is it easy to ride a 600/650 slowly and safely when needed or would it feel twitchy and eager to up the revs. ( sorry if this sounds stupid!!! ) It just feels like a toss-up between the following:

small bike: light, affected by wind and luggage, easy to ride on smaller roads, more dangerous perhaps on highways.
big bike: heavier, more stable with luggage, safer on highways, more manoeverable at lower speeds.

please correct me if any of that is wrong, or all of it!

I guess my priorities for my trip and bike are:

1. safe
2. smooth
3. easy

Any help or advice would be further appreciated.
Martin

Yes, very true and not often said - well spotted!

500-650cc: well, they can be handled OK on the throttle - they are not all off-road motocrossers, and any that have been mentioned here already would work for you IMO.
Have a read into the which bike forum for lots more information.

Cheers,

Transalp
 

Hi Martin,

I'll admit to being slightly biased but I think the Transalp would be a fine choice. :thumbup1:

It's a doddle to ride, the v-twin engine is relaxed and smooth, no danger of unplanned wheelies here! Having said that, you'll have no problem keeping up with the traffic either. My 1999 600 (650 from 2000) happily cruises at 75-80mph, two up plus luggage with plenty left in reserve. I can't say I've ever felt the need for more power. It may be nice, but it's not necessary.

The fairing and screen do a reasonable job of keeping the weather off (much better than a naked bike) and it can carry an unfeasable amount of luggage should you feel the need. It's no dirt bike but for the tracks and trails you won't have a problem. It's lighter, smaller and considerably cheaper to find used than it's big brother the Africa Twin. Also one of the most reliable motorcycles known to man. Loads of accesories available too.

Plenty of other good bikes out there but for me the TA does everything I want. Hugely underated IMO.

As for touring Scotland, well I'm biased about that too! Some of the best biking to be had but save it for the better weather!!:freezing:


if you're looking inspiration, why not come along to the UK Horizons meeting in July?

update
 

Thanks for your advice and help. Transalp looks like a real possibility. what about the bmw options. my untrained eye suggests that i can get more bike for my money with a second hand bmw, (less milage, newer).

Any opinions?

I have a BMW 650 in the garage, but............
 

It's not clear to me why you think that. £ for £ you will probably get a newer Transalp than a Beemer 650, say. BMW tend to carry a premium in the price, although that may change as BMW "assault the mass market" with their new range of bikes - just like the Jap bikes, they will be for the hoi polloi (spelling??!) in future.

Hi Martin,

Loads of options...............

Looking at your original post in this thread you may get more for your money with a Honda. For around £2500, you should be able to source a late low mileage 650 Transalp. Look for one in standard condition with as many accessories as possible. Centre stand, heated grips, luggage etc.

Very often in threads such as yours riders like to have there ideas / wishes confirmed but I would say keep your options open. Brand loyalty is wasted, with experience you will build up a list of priorities.

For a big continental tour such as yours a sports tourer is an option, how about a Guzzi, they made some excellent 650/750 bikes. I am not a big fan of the air cooled BMW twins but an older 650 twin is a solid performer. If you could find one a Honda CX 500 / 650 would fit the bill. All those would handle a bit of off road in the right hands. The list goes on.

List down your priorities as you see them, see what fits the bill and go from there.

If I was setting out on your European trip my list might be as follows.

Budget - £2000 to £2500 ready to roll
Fuel consumption 50 + ideally 60 MPG
Capable of 100 mph and cruises at 80 mph
Fuel range 250 miles +
Ease of maintenance and intervals, 6,000 miles +
Comfort
Reliability
Tyre wear
Shaft drive
Off road capability

Not many bikes fit the list exactly so make compromises and go from there.

What would your list look like?

Steve

Just a few others
 

I ride a 600 transalp myself, and agree with all said above. It's an extremely good 'does it all bike'. Not very powerfull, but enough for all sorts of trafic.

In my opinion, all relative light bikes handle mild off road. Tires are important if it's getting muddy.

I think all bikes below (and similar from other brands) will suit you as well in one form or another:
Suzuki GS 500
Kawasaki ER 5
Honda CB 750
Suzuki Bandit 600 (this one maybe wants to go a bit faster then you like)
Honda NX 250

Rob

No matter what bike you decide to buy .. I'd recomend a rider training course for 'adventure touring' - where you get to learn some methods for riding on dirt. This will give you more confidence on those dirt tracks and reduce the chance of a bad fall.

On the mechanics ... buy and use a manual for the bike you get - do an oil change, it really is easy. Adjusting valve s is a littel harder but do able. Slowly increase you knowledge about your bike.

On analysing what bike to get ... don't just look at the prices, specifications .. go for a few test rides - see what YOU like to ride. Even hire a bike or two .. go ride them and them add that bit to the other information!

Choice of bike is always a little hard, particularly if you are not an experienced rider. Listen to the advice of people here but recognise they are as partisan as anyone, there is not nessecarily 'one' right bike for you.

Before I bought my XT I was as confused as you probably are by the choices. In the end I got fed up trying to decide and narrowed it down to a shortlist of three bikes (XT 600E, BMW F650, Honda Transalp) and bought the first good example of whichever one I came across first).

The advice people give about new riders buying an over powered bike generally refers to highly tuned road bikes. Dual sports are generally in a much lower state of tune and therefore unlikely to cause you problems with control.

Matt :)

Bigger is not always better..
 

especially rinding in the saddle on rough roads... :eek3:

No, I meant the size of the bike.... Don't go over 650cc, keep it a single and simple but tough (read: Yamaha or Honda). Save your $$ for the trip! :scooter:

Toby (charapa) http://www.freewebs.com/shanperu/ :mchappy:

I would suggest that although the overall point of this is right you needn't keep it a single. The KLE and Transalp are both twins but would be very suitable for your trip. Indeed, if you are planning a mostly road trip the smoother twins will provide a more comfortable ride, and both will be very reliable.

Matt :)

I agree with Matt.

No point in you spending all your savings on a bike for a three month stint. Rather get something used and in still fairly good nic, not to big, so that you don't have to struggle with it all the time, being a beginner.

You want to have fun too, and be kinda versatile. If you do settle for a cruiser, you're gonna have to be more organised.

If you settle for an XT500 or 600, kickstart, you're gonna be enjoying your time riding around. I have a transalp, great bike for beginners, easy learning, not to throaty, but I wouldn't burn up that hilly dirt track without a second though, as I would if I was on an XT. I wouldn't want to scratch my transalp (fairing quite expensive). This is where you need to draw the line. Get a DR350 or 650 or XT500 or 600. Something that you can rip around on, without too much worry about dropping her.

I'd spend more money on the boots, pants and jacket, helmet with what you've saved on the bike.

Anyway, keep your mind open in your decision making. Enjoy, Enjoy

ta-all-the-way

A very good point and not always obvious to the beginner. I have learned the hard way that a pair of jeans, army boots and a cotton jacket are about as much use as a wet tissue in comparison to proper riding gear. Don't go overboard, but get good quality riding boots, jacket, pants and helmet. Get jacket and pants with integral armour. Hein Gericke is a good place for good gear at good prices.

Matt :)

I might be going against the wisdom of the list here, but as I don't remember you saying when your trip was to be, I'd suggest you think about the trip in two steps: 1) getting a bike for your license and for getting some experience, and 2) getting a bike for some more experience and your trip. I stumbled upon this approach accidentally and it seems to have a lot of advantages.

I just started riding last year on a Honda CM400 that a friend gave me. It was pretty junky and so I fixed it up and did my basic learning on that. What a dream of a bike to learn on! Low, light, smooth shifting... and plenty of power for getting around town. In fact, once the idea hatched for a round-the-world trip (I got hooked fast), I was seriously considering taking it. I was familiar with it, it was comfortable and a known quantity. Cheap to run too. And besides, I already had a bunch of experience on it. But as I ventured out more onto the highways, it quickly became evident that it just wouldn't do. It was totally dragging in the hills, and even on the two-lane highways in BC, I had the throttle wide open and was being overtaken by cars and strings of trailer trucks. It wasn't going to work on a trip that might be 90% roads. The Honda had served its purpose... so I gave it back to my friend.

Now I might be proven to be wrong in the long run, but I then bought a '75 BMW 600 cc. The difference was amazing. It's still small (I can pick it up by myself and I'm only 5'7", 140 lbs), cheap to run but goes with the traffic and does the hills. I can actually carry some stuff. I've spent the winter taking it apart and putting it together again so now know it inside and out. I have a lot of confidence in it.

I'm not saying that an older, standard bike is the way everyone should go, and I see that there has been a lot of really good advice given already in the responses... but I would really pay attention to the advice from others as well that a 600cc or thereabouts might be good for your trip. Some have said that particular ones are even good to learn on and if so, that's great. I don't have any experience on them. But I fell into the trap of thinking that a small, less intimidating bike was the way to go, and fortunately found out early enough that for a road trip, it may not be the way to go.

Enjoy your education and your trip.

I would imagine you're best off sticking to a simple, reliable bullet proof 600 middleweight because anything under 600 will be tough going and slow on the tarmac.

I own a 1999 Yamaha XT600E (Electric Start model) with only 5,000 on the clock. I procured it recently for only £1,600. It's pretty and has never the wet. I am reliably informed by others on this forum that there is nothing this thing won't do well. Apparently, there is nowhere on earth that hasn't seen an XT500 or 600 at some time or other.

You could go for a BMW but you won't find a goodun for under £2,000.

I wish you well on your travels.
Stay safe.

This thread is getting better
 

Nice post Sam - your points are well made, and it really doesn't matter what bike you are using: I reckon that we all remember our first time out on a motorbike, something never to be forgotten!
Keep churning over the bikes you own and getting in more time on the asphalt, dirt or whatever.

That's not to say that the thread is of no use. There are some good options pointed out in here now for MTennant7.

I would not discount twins for riding in Europe: quite the opposite - check out the KLE enthusiasts in the Kawa tech forum for instance. Some aspects of twins are discussed in here (relatively new models, although the DL650 has been around for a while):-
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub.../3-twins-31992

Thank you
 

Thank you so much for all your help and advice. Obviously there are different opinions but this topic and suggested bikes has given me the confidence to try some out and see how they suit me. Cannot wait to get out there. Great forum, helpful members, thanks for not mocking the newbie's lack of knowledge!!!

Had a go on a friends xt660 today just discovering the controls. one very quick question. can it take luggage and a big guy? How comfortable is it for long journeys?

No worries. Should be a fair amount of aftermarket luggage etc. available for it as it's essentially the replacement of the XT 600E, which is a very common travel bike. I own an XT 600E and is fine for me (5'10" and about 80 kilos) and the enormous amount of stuff I took on my big trip (circa another 80 kilos!) and the 660 has more power than the 600. There are comfier bikes for the long haul but also less comfy. It's probably about average.

Matt :)

Hi.

My aspirations for a trip are very similar to yours and until recently I had not been on a bike for ten years.

I passed my test 11 years ago but then had to give the bike up for various reasons, so getting back on one was like riding for the first time all over again.

Anyway, the point i was making is that I bought a Transalp 650 as lots of the bikes mentioned here are very similar in spec but the transalp came with a lower seat option, down to 813mm which was necessary for me as I am around 5'9" and weigh 12st 12lbs.

So ride as many of the options as you can and find the bike thats the most comfortable for you, and as you mentioned low speed riding then a comfortable position when you stop in villages or at lights will be very important as you get weary at the end of the day.

If you opt for a transalp, you are buying into legendary reliability with Honda dealerships everywhere aswell.

There are always about 5 or 6 Transalps on ebay, some with luggage and heated grips etc. I am not particularly tall and the standard screen gives me problems at any speed over 65mph so a touring screen which is about 140mm higher than the standard is a necessity

The above is just my opinion as i am sure that the other bikes are great aswell.

Good luck, and enjoy.

Lee

What bike
 

Hi.
What about a lovely low mileage Yamaha fazer 600!
Oh, I just happen to have one for sale! Lol.
I do have to agree with most the comments on the transalp though!
Did a 15 euro countries in 7 days charity trip a couple of years back and it was a hoot!
All the best with your plans what ever you get though.
Don't miss out the Hartz mountains, Germany.
Dave.

If your going to spend £2500 or so on a bike in London make really really sure it hasn't been used by a courier before you. That's the danger price range and ALL ex courier bikes should be avoided. I was a courier for a few years myself and I seen some bikes put through serious neglect.

For what it's worth I've done a lot of European travel on two wheels myself and definately agree with everyone saying you need at least a 600 in most of Europe. Big roads and traffic moves fast! You'll want to keep up or it can be scary.

Good luck finding the bike!

Another for the TransAlp
 

In terms of reliability, comfort and especially value for money ... the TransAlp sounds perfect for what you are looking for.

I personally prefer the older 600cc versions, made in Japan, to the 650cc post 2000 Spanish versions, but either way, you will get more bike for your buck with a 2nd hand TransAlp than a 2nd hand BMW ... and it will be more reliable, and wont vibrate like the F650 does above 60 mph.

Have a look at the technical section under Honda ... despite so many TransAlps around (and being recommended to you) there is almost nothing that ever goes wrong with them, so there are not many questions about how to fix them.