Minsk vs. Jawa / Planeta / Jupiter / Dnepr
 

Hello,

Does anyone have any familiarity with these Russian/Soviet bikes? I have been in Minsk for a number of months and now I'd like to drive to Syria. Foreign bikes (German, Italian, Japanese) are much more expensive than these 'local' bikes. Looking on irr.by (small adds in Belarus) any of these bikes in fairly good shape (from the early 90s) can be had for less than $300. But I don't know which one is most suitable for such a trip.

**UPDATE:** I've put the aproximate range of prices for the different bikes for anyone intrested.

The contenders are:

Minsk: made here in Minsk. 2-stroke 125cc. Made mainly for export and used in many countries. [$150-$250] [Sometimes newer four-stroke models with chinese engines can be found for higher prices, upto $600]
Jawa: made in the Czech republic. Was the largest motorcylce plant in eastern europe during the soviet union. 350cc 2-cylinder 2-stroke. [$350-$600 ?]
Planeta: Russian 350cc single-cylinder 2-stroke. [$250-$400]
Jupiter: As above but twin cylinder [$250-$350 ?]
Dnepr: Made in Ukraine. 750cc 4-stroke based on an old model BMW. [$250-$600 ?]
Urals - some of these for sale too.

Obviously a good bike should be:

>fairly reliable and tough
>not use too much fuel (20km/l or better?)
>Can cruise at at least 55mph
>not have bad vibrations when cruising, and not to noisy (makes you tired too..)
>Have parts available easily available where I am going.

I've heard that the Jawa is the best bike. It also seems to fetch the highest prices here.

I've made a sepate thread in the 'Europe' forum about the route I'll be taking.

Thank you for your responses

David

David here is my 10p worth,
I had a jawa as a young lad for a while, till I had saved enough to buy jap, a good bike quite easy to work on suspension not bad, compared to modern bikes would still be going while jap bike would not take the abuse.

you can find some info here for Dnepr
Cossack motorcycles, information for Russian motorbikes
I would say, if you know how the old bikes work or had a old bmw go for it but look at the site gives you info re which carb is sh*t etc

Planets & Jupiter know nothing

I would recommend the Jawa mainly cos I have had 1 & know them
On a pers note, my GF just came back from Vietnam / Aisa via train bus plane she also did a hochi ming trail on the back of a bike she saw a few European buying Minsk apparently locals find them not so reliable as Honda

My personal experience of the bikes on your list only extends to the Jawa 350 twin and tbh it's one I'm trying to forget. On the up side it was reliable enough - but - it just wasn't an enjoyable bike to ride. Even 30yrs ago it felt 30yrs out of date. Nothing you can single out, just everything felt substandard. 55mph cruising should be ok but I wouldn't want to go much quicker.

The old bikers lament -"please God, don't let me break down" was always at the back of my mind with the Jawa and whilst it didn't actually give much trouble it always felt like it was about to. It was just something about the way the engine, suspension etc felt. An MZ250 that I had before it was a much better bike.

I've seen the other two smokes on your list but never ridden any. I do have experience of a CZ175 single - again years ago, and the Russian bikes had a reputation of being even worse. If that's the case then they must have been truly awful.

It's always difficult to generalise from a single experience and others may think they're wonderful. However if that's all that's available then I'd suggest the Jawa is the best of the 2Ts for what you want to do.

Well.. a few more thoughts..

I went to the Minsk factory yesterday. Spares are available *very* cheaply for the bikes. They are known to be tough, and many come kitted out with front and rear racks from the factory. I wondering if the 125cc is a little small for cruising though, I'm sure what the roads are like in Belarus and Ukraine. A new one costs 3.800.000 Belarussian rubles (£830) with front and rear racks. They also make 4-stroke model, with I think, a Chinese engine, 125cc and 200cc versions, for a little more. Fuel consumption of the original model is claimed to be 3.5l/100km (28.5 km/l) which is impressive for a 2-stroke.

The Jawa probably is the most sensible of the three, and also the most expensive. I don't know about finding spares in the Middle East though. They were (still are?) produced in India and China under licence for a long time. Some people online say consumption is 4-4.5l/100km, still acceptable. It looks a little bland IMO.

The Ural is the most powerful and mean looking. Not sure if they are reliable, certainly they are much more complicated than the other two. Don't know about spares in the ME/Europe.

Seems Jawa spares wouldn't be a problem in Turkey either:

These inexpensive JAWAs looked good, were very reliable and gave good performance. As a result they sold well and many were exported around the world and even gained a following in the United States. The motorcycle was also built under license in India where it was sold as the Yezdi. In Turkey the weather is ideal for motorcycle riding and the 353 was a perfect solution to the transportation needs of this emerging economy. The Turkish government subsidized the mass importation of JAWAs. Today Turkey has a thriving JAWA spares industry that has managed to keep these aging machines on the road. The JAWA company is still alive today but finds it much more difficult to compete on the world stage with the likes of Honda and Yamaha. As a result their sales are largely confined to Eastern Europe.

The JAWA project

I have a Ural, but it is a 2007 and I doubt your budget would stretch that far: you'd probably have enough for one of the 650 twins. From what I gather the Ukranian Dnepr is pretty good once you iron out all the niggles, and that basically means replacing/rebuilding quite a bit!!!

If you want a more in depth answer there are two good fourms stacked with info, mostly targeted at the Ural Dnepr outfits, but other Russian, ex-Soviet brands are also popular...

Russian Iron Board (Powered by Invision Power Board)

Soviet Steeds • Index page

Either search and read, or sign up and post.

Whichever you buy, I dare say you will need the collective knowledge on these sites at some point!!!

Good luck.

I couldn't find any Minsks for sale today. The Jawas are little pricey, they sell for $400 up. I'm going to see an Izh Jupiter tomorrow, it's up for $300. I'll let you know. In general they go for $200-$300. I think it's probably not a good idea to go for a Ural or Dnepr, they are more complicated machines and an old one which I don't know the history of has more potential to go wrong than a 2-stroke. They are though, without a doubt, the coolest looking.

Still, if the Jawa is a much better bike than the Izh, and something I might hang on to after the journey, then maybe I wouldn't mind paying a little more.

Today I saw a Planeta 3 (I think.) It was pretty and in fair shape, but started to vibrate badly when revved over perhaps 4000rpm. I guess it would need a new set of crankcase bearings at the least. $300 asking price.

The second was a Jupiter 5. It was held together with bits of wire, the gearchange was really mushy, difficult to start, wiring was a mess etc. The steering seemed a little wierd on this model. Also $300 asking price.

Overall these Izh bikes are very heavily engineered. I'm a bit worried the consumption of the 2 cylinder model is high.

I might starting looking more seriously at Minsks.

Strugling a little bit..

Here are some figures I worked out:

Total distance 8000km:
Fuel 1$/l:

Minsk 2-stroke (3.5l/100km):
Bike $250
Fuel $280
total - $530 -

Jupiter 350cc (6l/100km)
Bike $300
Fuel $480
total - $780 -

Minsk 4-stroke (2.5l/100km)
Bike $600
Fuel: $200
total - $800 -

My only reserve about the Minsk is if it can hold 50-55mph confortably. A CG125 supposedly can, and thats a 4-stroke. Theres none for sale in Minsk at the moment. Has anyone ridden one?

I had a stroke of luck. An add came up this afternoon, a model 2007 Minsk. When to see it, nice bike in good condition, and I got it for $170. I'll go to the factory this week and see if I can get a set of racks. Would be nice to have a GPS, but that might cost more than the bike..

Thanks for your help.

Can't wait to see some pictures then, congratulations on your new bike!
By the way how do you go about buying and registering a bike over there as a foreigner?

cool.......likewise it would be great to see a picture or too. go for it:clap::clap:

Whether it is a $170 Minsk or a brand new $17000 Super 10/12, nothing quite beats that "I've got a new bike" feeling.

Nice one!!

:scooter:

Congratulations & yes i agree nothing like I have a new bike feeling hehe

We want to see the pictures now

I had a Dnepr as my first bike: 650cc/boxer engine.

If you can think to a part that could never-ever destroy when you are riding, you are wrong. All can happen to a Dnepr.

List:
Right cylinder head bolts loose in riding, lots of smoke coming from the space created between cylinder and cylinder head.

Right admission rocker broken in 2 pieces

First and second gear ...just gone with the winds. Had to replace half of gearbox.

Rocker shaft bended... bought 4 brand new, all different, +-5mm difference in length.

I could continue...

One thing is certain: I learn mechanics on that bike.:freezing:

I had experience with all of those and had Dnepr for a while since I originally from Kiev, Ukraine and started riding there.
I mean - I had real Dnepr, back in Ukraine. Not those polished and re-assembled equivalents exported from Ukraine.
In a word: stay away from Dnepr if your objective is to get somewhere.
I can probably add 2 pages to list below of what can and will happen to Dnepr. Not what "can happen", but what "will happen".
Jawa - there is different models, the pre-latest "12 volt" model was generally OK, but it needs to be set up accurately and thou it was not bad I won't take it to really long distance.
Izh - loads of lemons but also loads of good bikes. Planeta is kinda OK, but cc does not help it's performance to say least. Jupiter - you totally right, it is way overengineered
Out of those bikes I definitely would chose Minsk for reliability and repairability. But honestly it is 60 mph bike if all works OK.
Also there was (long time ago) Izh called Planeta Sport. Early versions of that bike were engineered with heavy participation of Yamaha, even some parts on it were Yamaha parts. It was mad 2 stroke light and fast bike.
Was not 100% easy to set up right, but it went like stink. If you find that one you can really have some fun on it.
http://gorodlip.ru/user_foto/bb/c670...c135a0c7c.jpeg
Also, if you get lucky you may find older machine called k-750
This is predecessor to Dnepr. This is not fast, not new bike but by God it worked when Dnepr was long dead. Reliability was excellent, only problems with mechanical ignition interruptor were easily solved by replacing it with tractor item :) It's pretty too in "oldtimer" style. Saying all that - if you can get yourself Japanese bike and you will be thousand times better off than any of those.
http://5mv.ru/images/articles/Motoci...1_original.jpg

Buying/Registering as a Foreigner
 

I don't know how it is in Belarus, but I can tell you how it is in Romania.

Here (I spend a lot of time in Romania) you have two options. If you have a residence permit (e.g. work permit, student visa, etc.) then the process is no different for a foreigner (with a residence permit) than a Romanian citizen. You just buy the bike by making a contract at a notary public's office. Then you buy mandatory insurance. Then you can drive the vehicle for about 1 month before you have to register it. Registering is also pretty simple. You take it to a registered mechanic to make an official inspection. You get an inspector to look at the vehicles ID numbers to verify that they are the same as what's written on the vehicle's papers. You pay some taxes. You go to the local ministry of transport office to register the bike in your name along with all your documents. You come back a week later, hand in the old number plates and get your own in exchange, and you're good to go.

If you don't have a residence permit, then you can't register the bike in Romania. You can still drive it around for the 30 days (with your own mandatory insurance) on the old documents with the sales contract, but that's not really useful. If you wanted, you could drive it to your home country or export it (ship it). If you wanted to drive it IN Romania, you can put it on a friend's name. i.e. Officially your friend buys and registers the vehicle, then makes an official contract which says that they are lending you the bike for however much time (e.g. 1 month, 1 year, 2 years). Then you can drive it around Romania as much as you like. You just have to keep with you the documents for the vehicle plus the "lending contract". I don't think you could take it out of the country though. And you'd need your friend to either sell it for you or export it when you were finished there.

Thanks Ursus, that's really useful. Actually know I know that I can ride for 30 days for export makes it very tempting to make my way over there quite soon and check out the market for old bikes. I'll PM you when I go in case you're around so maybe we could meet up for a beer and a chat.

Thanks again.

Giacomo

Jawa / Minsk / IZH / Dnepr / Ural
 

I 'd stick to the 2-stroke engines, due to the simlicity.
I've been riding Jawa 350 every winter since '93. It works. When it stops, it can be fixed. Friends ride Minsk, Ural and Dnepr. From their and mine experience, I would rate the bikes #1 Jawa / Minsk. Jawa has more power, but the minsk will run cheaper. #2 Ural, since I belive it has better buildt quality than #3 Dnepr. IZH I dont know much aboat.

Ed on the Minsk rides 30.000 km/year, long distance touring:
Langtur til bandittstat på Minsk 125 - mc24.no
http://arkiv.nmcu.org/tur/turforslag...mc_moldova.pdf
He rode Jawa earlier:
http://arkiv.nmcu.org/tur/turforslag..._bortenfor.pdf
and did Oslo - Irbit and return once. His friend then rode his Ural 650, that almost made it.

The Ural and Dnepr are more complicated. But dealers i Europe are plenty:
Ural Motorcycles Europe | Dealers

The new Ural 750 would be great, but expensive. I did a test-ride on it in Irbit, and the bike was great:
http://www.ural.cc/downloads/media_e...est_gearup.pdf

...and now I see that you already got hold of a Minsk!
:thumbup1:

I rod a Minsk two up with my girlfriend in vietnam, 3500km in 1 month. It's not very confortable, the luggage racks are great (we hat 25kg of luggage on the bike) and yes we had a lot of troubles (spark plugs, clutch, carburator and even the piston got stuck, I don't know why, maybe the oil in the mix was too bad...)... But I loved riding the Minsk, bought used with ??km for 500 US$ in Hanoi and sold for 400 US$ in Ho Chi Min City... Not the same prices!! It was a model from the beginning of the nineties.

The Minsk is great fun, it's lightwieght and easy to repair (Think 4 tools to completely disassemble the engine). Currently running mine, 16500km in 8 months through SEA.
Some, aehm, "minor" issues but all in all I'd do it all over again. So enjoy it!

I rode a very old minsk from Vietnam, through Laos and Cambodia. It was a great bike!

Small, but fun and I would LOVE to own one again.

It is not the best bike, but I found it reliable and pretty strong. There is a repair manual on this site (in the bottom) Minsk Club Vietnam :: Improvements & Maintenance

Go for the cheap bike and have fun all the way!