It's the Which? Bike thread!!
 

I've just started learning (and planning my trip!) and wondering about what bike to get once I've passed my test - I'm looking at traveling to the following;

Start - Scotland

England
Wales
England
France
Switzerland
Liechtenstein
Austria
Hungary
Romania
Bulgaria
Turkey
Syria
Lebanon
Israel
Egypt
Libya
Tunisia
Sicily
Italy
Vatican City
Italy
France
England
End - Scotland


As far as I've been able to find out, most of the roads are good, so am looking for a bike that is happy on the road and offroad so I'll be able to keep using it as I gain experiance riding, but is easy enough for a newbie to start with - Any suggestions??

I had looked at;

buell ulysses adventurer
Yamaha XT660R
Suzuki Vstorm 650A

Any ideas?

Thanks!

Matt

Hi Matt,
It really depends on the kind of off roading you want to do.
The V-Strom is a good allrounder but is limited off road to firm green lanes or forest tracks, it doesn't like sand or mud with it's Trail Wing tyres.
Comfortable bike to ride on road and will do 44 mpg with a 22 ltr tank,plenty of power and easy to ride.
I think the Buell would be too much for your experience with it's 1250 motor that likes to pull a wheeeelie.
Don't know about the Yamaha so can't comment but there are plenty of folks on here that like them.
Cheers
Ian:thumbup1:

Hi Matt,

I would leave the Buell for what it is: a Poser bike ;-)
(also, HD/Buell has no decent dealernetwork in some of the countries you want to go...)

Based on the assumption you don't do serious off-road, i would go for the Vstrom, if budget allowes. Otherwise XT660R. Both are good and solid bikes.

cheers,
Sander

Buying new? I'd take a close look at the new Yamaha Tenere.

Matt :)

saltire suzuki (Dundee Terrace) have the v-strom (not the A though). but they have some second hand 650's, you could Adventure-ise one of those. I had a 650 over a weekend, and it was pretty good. 650 will cruise at 80 mph easier than an XT will. for a solo ride better than the 1000 I have now.

I would personally go for an XT though, as I'd give up motorway comfort for some off-road ability. I think the XT would be cheaper to drop as well, if it's your first bike.

Doesn't the 650 v-strom have ABS that can't be switched off?

There's a lot of plastic on the wee strom compared with the XT and some other bikes; I have wondered about taking off the fairing plastic and replace it with some damaged second hand ones from a breaker for "serious travelling", if I was to own this, or similar bike.
The "poly" plastic (or whatever it is correctly called) type of stuff on more offroad oriented bikes is much more robust of course.

I would like a definitive answer about if the DL650 ABS is switchable; the dealer could not tell me, after which I walked out.

officialslacker,
Best do some reading into the multitude of threads in here as well; there are lots to go for.

Abs
 

The ABS is not switchable http://11109.rapidforum.com/ but I think you can put a switch in the line or pull the fuse.
Cheers
Ian:thumbup1:

Thanks for the advise so far guys! I'd like a new bike, but being a newbie I think I'll end up with a 2nd hand one that way I won't be as heart broken if/when I drop it and brake something!! :rolleyes2: although never say never, could get a new one if I've got the money or get a good deal!!


Dessertstrom - would I not just be able to swap the Trail Wing tyres for something more at home in the sand/mud?

I don't think I'll be doing motorcross or anything - just a bit of soft offroading - would like to be able to go through sand and mud if needed.

DougieB - What would be needed to sort the bike out for Adventure-iseing a bike?

I'm more used to cars & 4x4's - I know you can change the suspension for more hight, better tyres etc - guessing it's the same sort of stuff for a bike?

250/300 mile fuel range (normally means a new plastic tank), ability to put on some trail tyres, comfort for all day riding (a fine Scottish sheepskin on the seat), space to carry your gear without it falling off (hard luggage/rack or soft bags), space to carry plenty of water without it falling off. crash bars if you've a tendency to drop the bike. So, you're potentially up to £1000 and still have to get the bike, and your riding gear. Getting something (older) as suitable as possible to your needs will hopefully means spending less on extras.

depends what you're doing, and what type of person you are. the above is probably somewhere to start with, that would be a general adventure touring bike. by off-road, be realistic. you could change suspension in a v-strom to make it more off-road, but it's never going to be a real jumping off-roader.

an XT is a more capable off-road bike than a v-strom, but you still need to look after it off-road. You could also think about an old transalp. probably somewhere in between an XT and a v-strom, and likely to be cheaper.

buy a copy of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook, it's got everything in there you'll need. The trip reports are good for seeing what people go where on, and what broke: Adventure Motorcycling ~ the website of the Adventure Motorcycling Handbook

Matt's bike is a pretty good example. his blog is in his sig. read through the blogs (link on the left side of this page), and you'll get an idea of the types of bikes people use.

You can change the suspension but you can't change the frame geometry and weight very much .
You'll have to decide what kind of riding you will be doing and choose a bike accordingly .
Any of the 650 singles [KLR, DR650,XT 600 ,650GS ] would be good for very rough roads and for mainly highway and gravel roads the 650 Strom would be great . Pure highway? well there are hundreds of bikes you could pick ,but for an inexperienced rider a 650 like a Bandit would be just fine .
Try some bikes out , test rides or borrow friend's bike , read as much as you can on the internet and gain an idea about the reliability of certain models .
Don't get a big bike for now, 650 or 750 should be fine .
Bigger machines are more specialised and when you've gained a bit more experience , you will know exactly what you want !

If you are looking at second hand stuff then have a look at the XT 600E (produced up to 2003). I have one with a plastic tank (23 litres), bash plate, luggage racks etc. For genuine 1 up adventure touring in the third world I reckon you'd be hard put to do better. They are insanely reliable and tough as nails, if slightly unsophisticated. The old carburetted single pot technology is simple enough for self maintenace and not without the skills of mechanics in the more remote parts of the world. It's got enough poke for cruising on good roads while being just enough of a dirt bike to cope with off road. The only situation in which it struggles is motorway cruising where the relatively low cruising speed combined with lack of weather protection makes it a bit of a chore. As for dropping/crashing etc. I've had some quite spectacular tumbles which have resulted in little more than a few scratches. Would be worth buying some stronger bars like Renthals though as the stock bars bend quite easily.

As for tyres, Continental Twinduros seem to be a good compromise between off-road and tarmac use. Be careful not to overload them though as they disintigrate as I found out to my cost!

Matt :)

knowledgeable owners.

Good luck with the L Plate.

So don't under estimate the Ulysess...a super good bike...just not for everyone and not for begginers. (too tall)

At the risk of offending anyone on here who's trying to sell their bike post trip, I have to agree with this. 'Adventure' miles on harsh roads, tough environmental conditions, poor fuel quality etc. are much harder on a bike than the 'ordinary' miles your average punter will put on a bike. With absolutely no basis in scientific research ;) I reckon 'adventure' miles are at least twice as damaging to a bike than 'ordinary' ones.

Matt :)

Forthcoming BMW F800GS is worth a look, UK launch is Saturday 8th March 2008. Based on the reliable & cheap to service F800S & ST.

Thanks for that Ian; the web link is an awesome amount of data.
Do you happen to know if there are any "side effects" to disconnecting the ABS? - BMW web discussions are just full of this topic but they do have that canbus technology to live with.

Cheers,

Yep, and the "new" 1200GS is in the dealers later this month I have been told.

The thing is officialslacker, you have asked a wide open question (no budget or preference for new/second hand etc etc) and you are getting the whole gamut of replies!!

Matt,
You can put chunky tyres on the V-Strom I think Continentals fit but you would still have to take care and when you drop it it will cost more to repair and you WILL drop it.
At this stage in your biking experience I would get a second hand bike poss a 250cc and go to an off road school to get some tuition. Even if you can handle a bike on the road you will drop one almost as soon as you hit the dirt. My first dirt bike was an old Suzuki RM 250 that I got for peanuts and fell off loads of times but it didn't matter as it was basic and nothing broke. I went on to compete in motocross on an RM 250 and a Honda CR 250.
Riding on dirt is a whole different ball game and a different technique but riding on dirt will make you a better rider on the road.
I went to the local Harley dealer to check out the Buell and got a test ride, great bike and I wanted one in orange but when I got back the salesman told me the price 45,000 Saudi Riyals so I went to the Suzuki dealer and got a V-Strom for 23,000 SR 2006 model in black out of the showroom.
Don't be in a hurry to spend your money it might workout cheaper to buy an old bike to fall off than to buy a new one and make a mess of it.
Cheers
Ian:thumbup1:

Abs
 

Dave,
When I read about pulling the fuse the same question crossed my mind but there was no comment to be found on this.
My bike doesn't have ABS so it won't bother me but I think I would leave it connected as my previous bike did have it and I found it ok but you like it or you don't if you don't then you have the option to walk away.
Cheers
Ian:thumbup1:

Its a bit strange, why Suzuki dont have the option to disconnect ABS, if a person wishes to do so.l

Then again, Ive got a 07 Vstrom, and the system is working quite perfectly for my needs, so I really havent yet come up with any situation where I wouldve felt I'd control the bike better with ABS switched off.

Im actually in India with it, and a few weeks ago had a big situation on the road near Delhi, when a really large pig decided to run (fast!) straight into my path from behind a truck. I was doing maybe 100-110 kms per hour, too fast for India, as I found out, but it was a very good road, not like most roads here.

I can tell you that with a bike fully loaded and 2 persons aboard, its not easy to stop really quickly on a situation like that, when you simply do not have time to think. VERY good to have ABS at that moment.

I think the need to switch it off would come in some offroad-riding, to which the bike is not very suitable to begin with. For road-use, and especially on long trips, ABS is a big plus.

If you take the ABS-fuse off, that should put it to normal brakes. I would put the fuse back every now and then, because the pistons inside the hydraulic unit need to move back & forth not to get jammed (it actually does this every time you put the power on, but maybe not if you disconnect its fuse).

the 650 v-strom X (new) has engine bars, a bash plate (ali) and no ABS. it's also cheaper than the standard road based v-strom. Although it appears off-road biased (hence no ABS) it's still a road bike in terms of suspension, weight and riding position.

there are some really cheap 600 traillie bikes for sale (£1000-£1500). Sling on some canvas army bags (£10), strap on a 5 litre fuel can (once you get over the channel, £3). And go travel, you'll learn to ride along the way. Buy something better when you get back, and know more about it.

Just want to say thanks for the last few posts; all very interesting.

My interest is always in having full control over what is going on with my bike and the controls.
So, yes, I would normally have ABS switched on for road riding (I have never owned a bike with ABS so I have not experienced daily usage of such) and I take Pecha's advice seriously.
I would like the option of switching it off however for riding on gravel or other dirt (and when there are no pigs around the area!!).

if you look on the suzuki website, at the v-strom 650 (though I expect all ABS bikes), they have a video explaining ABS. I know we all know how it works, but some might be interested to see it working.

Thanks, got it:-

Suzuki GB Motorcycles/ATVs : Suzuki Extra Page

more times than I care to when road riding.

Hey guys,

Thanks for the advise!! Am going to buy that book as well.

I think that I'm going to go for a 2nd hand bike & the XT sounds like it will do the job, but I'm checking out other bikes & will test ride etc as many as I can. I appreciate what was said about not buying a bike with 'Adventure' miles and tbh I would not do that anyway - I feel the same way about cars (I mod cars - though I'm NOT a boy racer lol) and would never buy a car that’s been done up already due to the fact that I don't know if it's been abused, poor craftsmanship etc (No offence to anyone but if it broke due to it being abused or poor craftsmanship I'd be a bit :censored: off but if I was the one that abused it or what ever then I've got no one else to blame but myself! just the way I feel) , when buying I'd go for a standard car almost every time so was going to take the same line with bikes.

Anyway I think what I'd be looking for is a 2nd hand bike, standard, good con, as new as poss & as few miles as poss - maybe spend £3K including mods, from what I've seen I can get a 2002/03 plate XT600E for just over 2K so it's not totally unrealistic.

I had been thinking about buying a old 125cc (since I'm still learning think this is the biggest engine I can have at the mo) from ebay or somewhere, maybe for a couple of hundred & get as many miles as I can done, poss keep it at my mums as there are places I could take it to use offroad, well lose gravel, grass, dirt roads etc to get some experience.

O/slacker,
I think you have your pricing about right; a brand new 2003 model XT was sold recently by a dealer, on ebay or autotrader - can't remember, for £3000.

Learner limits; this is always a "moveable feast" thing and it changes again in April apparently (so get it done early!!) - there is loads of stuff on the internet about the impending changes.
Thing is, 125cc is no longer relevant - so long as the bike produces no more than 33 HP you are OK.