believe me, crf250l is heavy enough to hurt you badly. Had one accident off-road when my leg go twisted under this bike and couldn't get out easily. After that I decided I wanted something lighter for offroad.
Almost over 150kg fully fueled with some luggage can hurt you as well as over 200kg bikes when it falls on you. More powerful bikes have one advantage though, they have enough power to allow you escape sometimes or save it from close calls. crf250l weight to power ratio is dangerous IMO.

Know the bikes limitations and you will be fine.
Justed completed a 5000km in Laos in 13 days with 50% on road and 50% off road found the bike great in all conditions.

Sure, any bike can hurt you ... even a bicycle. But in general riding OFF ROAD, lighter bikes are BETTER, EASIER (and safer) than big, heavy bikes. You are much more likely to fall when riding a BIG, heavy bike. Small, light bikes are easier to handle, especially for novice rides.

The idea a big bike's power will help you is spurious at best. Yes, a full on 450 race bike or 500 KTM would be good ... as they are nearly as light as a 250 yet have 3 times the power. Nice. But most are not ideal travel bikes. Most novices end up going too fast on the 500's and killing themselves.

On road is a different world and there ... POWER is nice to have. But you can certainly survive fine on a 250cc bike if you pay attention and stay OFF fast interstate highways.

If you ride with Hard panniers on your bike then you always risk your legs being trapped by the panniers. Seen this in person many time with my KTM and Big GS riding buddies. Lifted many a big bike off a trapped rider. Luckily,
no broken bones but not a pleasant sight.

Even at 68 I'm still strong enough to lift a 250cc bike off me. A 650? or
1200cc GS? Not a chance. HELP! :helpsmilie:

Off road riding the big heavy bikes can be tricky for novice riders. Riding ruts is tricky for many riders and slippery mud also take many riders down.

Steep UP and DOWN grades stop a lot of riders on big bikes. MUCH easier on a little 250 or even smaller. But go under 250cc, you find you can't make it up some steep up hill sections when carrying a full load.

I rode a 125cc two stroke all over Thailand and a bit in Cambodia. Scary on the fast highway, great on back roads, water crossings and mud.

:scooter:

exactly, that's why I said crf250l is too heavy. You just repeated my point.
But - if bike is heavier then it better have more power as well. not like crf.

Why? How does having more power help?

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strange question :rolleyes2: never been riding in deep sand or deep dirt? try do power slides etc in such conditions on crf250l...not gonna happen with factory setup. In dirt steering is mostly done with rear wheel :)

Or, ever had to quickly ride away from charging rhinoceros?
you need some power to be safe.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-.../i-MqJJMSF.jpg
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-...-bBwch3h-L.jpg
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XR250 at a wide spot on this Wood's trail. More fun than riding a 650 here.

Firstly, you won't be doing power slides riding tight single track trails. Wide open Desert? Sure ... and easily done on a 250 ... if you know how.
(try speeding up!)

Riding through tight woods trails a 250 is far superior to just about any bike. Turns quick, light and agile allows higher speed. bier


More power is NICE in deep sand but the added weight of a 650 has the front plowing in more than a good 250 will do. The small KTM's and Husqvarna's simply FLOAT over deep sand ... very stable. My WR250F and XR250R were LESS good in deep sand ... but still easier than a big 650. (for me)

mollydog of course knows better :) I'm saying clearly about riding in deep sand etc and he is posting pictures of flat surface. I'm talking about crf250l and he is showing XR250 which has way more power and is lighter by 15kg doh

anyway whatever makes you happy man bier

True. I own the WRR, but I don't think there is much difference in that. About 5HP. Never had a problem with power in Queensland sand and mud and Baja sand on single trail. Breaking traction is easy. Depends on how much hero juice I had in the morning if what you can call what I do a power slide.
Didn't like the gearing there but that's different.

Got chased by a mad 3 legged dog once in China got away ok on my CRF?

could have been 2 legs because the dog was moving like shit out of hell.

:oops2:

Not seen many rhinoceros in Beijing lately but will keep my eyes open

Pedants make me happy! :blushing:
No ... you were talking also about "power slides", claiming you could not do it on a 250. I did say more power is better in deep sand. You should go re read the previous posts. PS: we typically don't do power slides going UP HILL. It's a flat track technique. I learned it when I raced at Ascot park in L.A. (google it) at age 14 riding my Bultaco Pursang.

Yes, XR 250 is lighter and has more power ... but I could power slide the CRF250L just as easy. Before Ascot, I learned power sliding riding a Honda 50. :mchappy:

well if we're talking about crf 18hp +/- then believe me 5hp more is significant difference plus again, wrr is lighter. I am riding now everyday on crf250l off-road and even with both sprocket changed to 13/42 and air filter mods quite often bike is shaking and baking in deeper sand or gravel. Can you ride like that? sure, but it's a pain and you'll get caught ;)

I suggest whoever is expressing his opinion about crf250l here without actually riding this bike (stock) to go and take a test ride first.

Sure, but I'm debating why that would hurt you and power would be the savior. Sounds to me like it needs better riding technique to make it work.

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Requirements for a new potential overland bike:

- Overall reliable characteristics
- Range of at least 400 kms
- Fair luggage options
- Comfortable seat and sitting position
- Good handlebars and footpegs
- Ability to perform power slides....

Good advice!
I do agree that in the deep gravel and sand you describe that a heavy and under powered bike is a struggle, not ideal. You own a CRF so I defer to your opinion. But many others seem OK with the CRF, but I do get your point.

But good technique can help, but having a lighter bike with more power would be a better solution. :thumbup1:

Sounds like you may be in the market for a new KTM 500 or similar. 3 times the power of your CRF at about the same weight. Plus, the KTM's geometry is very sand/gravel friendly. Quite easy to ride in your described conditions.

I've never ridden the CRF250L off road, only on road. It did seem a bit weak but as a travel bike I see many doing OK with it going RTW and other cross continent rides.

I rode 125's all over Asia and did OK, so once set up, the CRF might not be ideal, but price is good and good used ones are around here cheap.

The KTM's here are around $12,000 USD, around $8K to 9K used. If I trusted the KTM's or Huskies more, I would buy a nice used one for a travel bike. But so far, I'm not convinced.

So with the high price plus high maintenance, expensive parts and questionable long term reliability ...have to pass on Euro bikes for now ... as good as they are. doh

Among 250's the CRF250L would not be my first choice. After research I'm leaning toward WR250R. Lots of viable history of guys riding all kinds of tough situations, doing long highway and doing tens of thousands of miles mostly trouble free.

Would I prefer riding a Husky or KTM 350 in tough conditions? Of course ... but I don't fancy a rebuild mid trip either. :(
For now ... it's the Yamaha ... but always open to hearing about something better! bier (power slides required of course! :smartass:)