I doubt you've seen this before...
 

Hi guys!

New to the forum, but pumped to be a part of it!

So here is my situation...

In 18 months 3 of us will be doing a 3 to 5 month tour around the Black Sea - Ex-Yugoslavia, Greece, Turkey, Georgia, Russia, Ukraine, Romania... etc.

The 3 of us being:
30 y/o male... lives in Austria - 1 year riding experience on a 250 & extensive time on a mtn bike.
25 y/o female... lives in Austria - still no license & is very short 5' 3" or so
59 y/o male... lives in USA - never owned more than a 125 but a full license

1st question:
Does the female go 2 up or get her own bike? She will get her license in the next 6 months... but if she may never get comfortable riding herself...

2nd question
What bikes do we all get to get more riding hours under our belt?
(the 2 in Austria live together, but will probably want different bikes given height differences)
(also smart to take into consideration is if the female never gets comfortable then the 30 y/o will have to have a bike big enough for both of them to fit on)

3rd question
Which bikes do we take on the trip?
(ie does the guy living in the USA ship his bike or buy a bike in Austria upon arrival & sell it before going home?)

I hope this is the right forum........

looking forward to your responses & tips!

oh, & I forgot to mention... the bike the 2 living in Austria get should be capable of riding accross Asia/Africa...

they will have another year to travel there after & the 1st 5 months around the Black Sea wil decide if Asia/Africa is via motorcycle or plane...

I suggest lots of luck

:oops2:

This is the sort of thing that makes a great adventure and usually ends up in being an example of how not to do things.

Wish I were there
:palm:

On a more serious note
the answers will revolve around whether the lady wants to ride or not.

If not, and riding 2 up then a BMW GS is ideal.
The 1100 / 1150's are cheap in Germany / Austria

I would suggest larger than 400cc for riding in Europe in general particularly if you are carrying your own luggage.

Style of bike is more of a personal choice
But given your plans; just pitching up with cash and buying something available could be a good choice.
Buy the cheapest and Flog it afterwards!

Hey there.

If the lady does decide to ride her own bike, I would suggest the Yamaha XT660R. It’s a very good and durable bike that would take any terrain with ease, so they will have no problem completing their journey after the USA departs from them. The nice thing about the bike is that it’s got a good ground clearance of 210mm (8.2 inch) but still a relatively low seat height of 865mm (34 inch / 2.8 feet). So she will be able to reach the ground with no problem. The bike is also light with a wet weight of only 181kg (399 pounds). The Xl700v Transalp from Honda will be a bike to conceder for her as well seeing its seat height is 25mm (0.98 inch) lower than the xt’s. However it is much heavier weighing in at 191kg (421 pounds) dry weight.

If you are in the main menu of the hubb’s forum, and you scroll down almost to the bottom. You will fine a tread for woman only, it may be a good idée to ask them about a bike for the lady, and what will be the best option 1up or 2up for her.

If she wants to go 2 up the recommended BMW’s will be the best choice.

For the guys, if you have limited experience with big bike I’ll go for something in the 600 class. The XT660Z; KLR600; Transalp700 or maybe even the new 800GS depending on your cash situation are all good candidates to look at. I just think if you all ride on your own bike the smaller bikes will handle easier for you.
Hope you will get the right info you need and keep us updated about your trip:thumbup1:

Agreed on the "a lot of luck"....

I had been looking into the transalp myself. Honda's seem incredibly reliable to me & every country we are going through sells them.

But I'm 5'8" and I don't stand flatfooted on one... which would make it almost impossible for the female who is 4"-6" shorter to also be able to ride...

I am not totally turned off by the BMW's... I have a bad taste in my mouth from a friend who snapped a clutch cable on his GS & to replace it more complicated than heart surgery & took longer too...

Some of my fears are:
- Honda doesn't make the TransAlp in the US for the old guy
- if we get the female a bike she can stand on without problem it will probably be a 250ish class (and not too good in bad conditions) & we will be zipping around on monsters
- I think I am leaning towards a TransAlp when riding alone, but if I have to double the female then as I understand it, a GS is really the only option? I don't want to buy 1 bike and then sell it for something else
- plus I can't get it out of my head how much easier a light weight bike 125 / 250 is in the nasty stuff (Claudio on the red-devil)... why not line all 3 of us up on little bikes? Varadero 125?

yes, but chances are you will spend relatively little of your time in the "nasty stuff". Any of the bigger bikes mentioned will handle dirt/gravel roads easily, how much of your time do you expect to spend in deep sand or mud?

It obviously depends on what you want to do on your trip, but I think it would make sense for you to go two-up with the girl on a largish (650+) bike.

As for the American, as I understand it, it will be difficult for him to register a bike in his name in Europe...

The other ting you can do is to let the girl ride a smaller bike, and have either you or the other dude take her luggage on your bike's. You must just remember if all of you go for smaller bikes it can get very tiring and one can get very frustrated on the open road. It may be frustrated for you aswell if 2 are on 600+ and the third is on a smaller bike. I know the 600cc aren't superbikes but they still are a lot faster then 250cc, even if you don't really speed.

It would be easier to help if we know how tall the lady is?
The good thing is you still have lots of time, so take time and go test drive all the bike's you consider. Tell the sale's person what you intend to do. In my city there are a few dealers who let you take the bike offroad to see if you can handle the height and weight of the bike:mchappy:

Are you actually intending riding much or any off-road?

Road orientated bikes will be closer to the floor and there'll be a much wider range of bikes available with lower seat-heights. Plenty of women ride anything up to the biggest BMW and Harleydavidson motorcycles, so no reason why you shouldn't be able to take bigger/faster bikes.

As someone said above, if the lady in the group doesn't carry any/much luggage then this will help even out any differences in riding competance, or more importantly mean she won't struggle to control the weight of the bike when stationary or at slow speed. And riding with two people's luggage is still far more easy than riding with two people's luggage and a pillion.


Loads of people buy 'off-road' orientated or styled bikes then never take them off asphalt or gravel roads. There seems to be some kind of obsession with using big trailbikes or 'adventure' bikes for any and all motorcycle tours, irregardless of whether they're ever going to leave normal roads behind. There have been great examples in other threads of people using 'road bikes' for long distance bike trips to every popular bike touring destination conceivable.

Since you have 18 months to prep, I'd suggest you ALL get on bikes NOW and start riding! None of you have any serious riding experience. Riding in strange E. Euro countries could require a solid riding background, good defensive driving skills and excellent bike handling skills in all weathers, on all surfaces, from 160 kms. on Autobahn, to slick cobble stones to gravel, mud and technical Alps roads. Not really for beginners! ?c?

One of the best bikes for female riders is the Ninja 500. Low, light, powerful
and never needs any maintenance. Find a good used one and buy it for her.

It's funny to hear guys suggest an R1100GS for a women 5'3" tall. Guys .... better do the conversion to cm's or whatever to understand just how short 5'3" is. :blushing:

The American guy should buy the bike in Europe. Use a local address and do whatever is needed, with help of local friends. This is not a big deal and has been done before.

If the Female takes well to riding and is "inspired" and loves it, then go for it. If she is like me, she may refuse to ride pillion. I certainly would never ride pillion. Too scary for me. :rofl:

But if she likes riding motorbikes, let her have a go. But DON'T put her in danger if she is hopeless at it. Don't Push it on her!

Face it, riding a bike is pretty simple. Just takes seat time and serious practice. With a good coach, she can learn it all in a few months of constant riding.

Start now. See how things progress. Buy the bikes that work for you once you know your ass from your elbow about travel and bikes. In a year of research here and riding practice and looking around bike shops, you're knowledge base (and riding skills) will expand 10 fold.

McD

Mickey D,
Thanks for the advice, I too was a little confused with people recommending bikes for a newbie female where she couldn't touch her toes on the ground... I think she need a bike she can stand flat footed on that can keep up with whatever bikes the guys are on... I will look into the Ninja... How would that be on long distances?

Regarding the E-Europe countries you kinda side-swiped me... I expect the roads to be just good enough... and actually less cars on the road than in W-Europe countries... hence one of the reasons for us newbies... We had planned to always park the bikes on the city-skirts & then use public transport in, as I totally agree with you on the cobble stones & crazy big/inner city drivers.

Regarding buying a bike in Europe... When crossing boarders are there problems if 1 guy has 2 bikes in his name? If not then this won't be a problem...

Nath,
To be honest, I have no idea how much of my path will be off-road... but we want to leave the door open if we like it to head across Kazakhstan if we are loving traveling by bike & I don't want the bike to be the reason we don't.

I do agree with you that 2 people's gear on the back is better than 2 people & 2 people's gear... I am coming to accept this is the most likely situation...

houbie,
I wish test riding here was like in SA... here they charge you €20 Fri & Sat and €10 M-R... and that is certainly not off-road inclusive...

I can however rent... at the same shop... weekend for a TransAlp costs €240 (400km +€0.30 per K thereafter)... absolute robbery... not to mention it is snowing here at the moment...


I am feeling like pulling the trigger on a 1-2 y/o transalp is the best idea... this way we can double if need be & I can start getting the hours under my belt... what are the negative points to the TransAlp?

Also if the US guys buys a TransAlp on arrival, what is a US comparable bike?

Little info:
Ninja 500 is known in europe as the gpz500. Well-known here in the UK as a very reliable and capable bike, and often recommended as a good first "big bike". They also made a 'big traillie' style bike using that same engine, the kle500.

Definately start riding regularly as soon as possible, preferably everyday commuting to work.

First off I would just like to say me and photographicsafaris didn’t suggest that the lady get her self a GS1150 or GS1200. If you read carefully you’ll see that we suggested the BMW’s for 2up. So unless the lady is going to lift you or the other guy she’s not going to ride a bike 1000cc+.


The GPZ will be a good choice, but then you have to work out your route to be on tarmac for most of the time, seeing it is a road bike and not a semi off road or dual purpose bike. If you still intend to tour through Africa after you did the black sea, I will not recommend it.



I don’t really know much about the kle500, just that it is the bit more tuned down version of the KLR600. The only thing is that it’s seat height is higher than the Transalp, and it is a mere 12mm ( 0.4 inches ) lower than the XT660R. The KLE is also the same weight as the XTR except that it is dry weight at 180kg (399 pounds ) and the XTR is wet weight.


Sorry to hear you have to pay to go for test drives,:thumbdown: but rather pay then to find out halfway through your trip you bought the wrong bike

Once again keep us updated, will be nice to hear what bikes ( hopefully 3 ) you bought at the end.

She does not need to "flat foot" her bike. Tip toes are just fine. She will learn to slide over to one side of the seat to get more security. The Ninja (GPZ500 in EU) will be a godd long distance ride with a few mods. Very easy on tires, chains. Very light weight and tough as Hell.
Mild dirt roads no problem. I would ride one any where a BMW GS or Transalp can go. Heavy bikes break off road, light bikes, not so much. Too wit: Karizma bikes in India.

A dual sport may be better off road but finding one low enough is hard. Perhaps an
old Yam Serow 225? (Lois on the loose) or the like could work? Lowering links can help. Look at TT250, XR250L,XT350, KLR250, or perhaps DRZ250? All are decent dual sports, but taller than the GPZ 500.

The 2 year old Trans Alp would be good bike but a 2 year old Suzuki Vstrom 650 is better in every way. The more you read here (and elsewhere), the more you will discover this fact. The Trans Alp is reliable and many have done RTW. But it's a 20 year old design.

The Vstrom is not only tough and reliable but also modern, light and strong. So much has changed on modern bikes in the last 20 years, so much for the better! What does that really mean?

=More power, =better fuel economy,= more range,= better handling and suspension (very important), =better brakes by far. =Easy to service.

Don't fall for the romantic idea of the Trans Alp, Africa Twin or BMW. None can touch the Vstrom in the real world on bad roads over years of hard use. The Africa Twin was good twin 15 years ago because there were not many good alternative twins except BMW. Now, the game is different.

For Two Up either will be OK. Ride both and decide. :D

One of the reasons I traded in My BMW was my 29" legs would not always reach the ground from the 31" high seat that 34" is ridiculous! Just try pulling up at a set of traffic lights on an adverse camber or alongside a pothole with traffic all around. Back in the old days if you could not flat foot with both feet the bike was considered too tall. I still subscribe to this.

Nothing wrong with a small engine:
 

If I were you I'd go for that small engined bike you mentioned, I know there's people on here saying you need a big bike, but there's plenty of travellers happy with low power. Do a search on here for posts by Simon Gandolphini who rode in South America on a 125 and Birdy who rode to Capetown two up on a dodgy Honda CG125. Google Wan Lee and Ruckus and see someone who toured all round the US on a 50cc scooter.

I happily load up my Derbi Terra Adventure (another 125) and go off for a week or two (time prevents more). You just have to treat your journey differently, pack a little lighter maybe, shop for food a bit more often, don't carry quite as many gadgets, stop more, potter more, avoid major arterial roads.

Look at it this way, people bicycle the world and can carry everything they need, and cover huge distances. If they can do it with just leg power a 125cc's 15hp is more than capable.

for two up, one of the alternatives might be suzuki dl650 v-strom. really tough bike. anything smaller then 600cc might be a pain in eu zone and in turkiye. i think the lowest 650 enduro you can get is f650gs (might be lowered and can be bought low seat).

best of luck and enjoy every step of your planning and trip!!

I think 4-500cc should be enough for traversing Africa. It's not going to be a race, right? I have a DR650 and have found it too big and heavy in nasty stuff. Didn't happen often, but I have needed help several time to get a pannier lifted off my foot... I am very tall.

I strongly re-suggest to take the same bike on the trip for all in the group. If necessary lower it for the shorter rider(s) or make it higher for the taller one. One manual, one set of tools and spares. You know how to fix one, you know them all.

Nath,
Thanks for the heads up on the name... i can find it on wikidpedia.... but not for sale... weird... it looks like the last year it was produced was 2004?

Mickey D,
I hadn't even considered the Suzuki... I don"t know anything about them. Are they as reliable as the Honda's?

Alexbrit,
I couldn't agree with you more my first bike was a 250, however, as the idea of doing a trip on a bike is already pushing the limits of the female's comfort zone, it'd be nice to give her either a non-loaded bike to ride and something that won't struggle... not to mention a bike where she will have to ride so slow that people are constantly overtaking her... unnerving... & a bit more space to pack bring things cold go a long way.

OldBMW,
I agree 100%, I am going to make sure we all can flat foot the bike we choose, especially as when they get loaded down and a bit more top heavy this for me is important... plus i can't imagine for a newbie that tippie toes could be at all comfortable!?

ozhanu,
Wow, I just looked at the BMW F650GS's specs... they claim it will go down to 765cm... similar power to the V-strom similar tank size to the TransAlp and 20 kilo's lighter than both!? comparable price to the transalp but 2K more expensive than the Suzuki... AM I MISSING SOMETHING HERE?

I think I will be looking more seriously into the BMW F650GS now... if the little lady doesn't take to riding how with this do 2 up? Anybody with experience on it?

As beddhist mentioned this might be the answer to a bike in both the US & EU that all 3 could ride... hummm...

A 50yr old Brit bike could be more reliable than 1yr old Honda :confused1: depending on its treatment whilst in use!

As long as a bike is well looked after, not abused it has every chance of being "reliable".

Honda (like any manufacturer) have some issues with certain models. I believe they are recalling 1000's of cars at present :nono:

As long as you stick to large manufacturer, you can't go too far wrong - I'd avoid Asian machines though :thumbdown:

Hi, i did a tour of the Black Sea and the Balkans in summer 09 with my son who is 18 and only passed his test a few months before we left on our 2 month trip. The roads particularly in Romania, Bulgaria and Albania can be of very poor quality. Many of the countries you will be visiting have as many unsealed roads as tarmac ones which will take you into the rural (best and safest due to lack of fraffic) parts of these countries. i would therfore recommend a trail bike for the trip Xt660R, xt600E, serrow etc. Once out of western Europe your speed will drop considerably, negating the need for a larger bike. In 19,000 miles between us we had only 1 very scary moment when i met a car overtaking a lorry towards me. Andy B

how much do you want to spend?
are you buying new or nearly new bikes or older models?
i suggest your lady friend reads lois price's "lois on the loose" where she uses a yamaha serow225, a great book and if she doesnt want to ride herself after that then there is no hope.
suzuki drz400 is light and can be lowered, fast enough for road use and tough enough for some off road, and is very reliable,
or you could spend a fortune on KTMs?

once youre out of western europe you will be lucky to be able to do 80kph very often, so a big engined bike will just be wasting fuel and you can carry just as much on small bikes as big ones, but you will do the little bike a favour by keeping it simple and you will have to pick it up off the ground at some time

Pigford,
Agreed... however, in my experience there are simply some motors that are more forgiving to abuse, like a Honda... and others that seriously complain if the mnf. recommended services are missed...

Andysr6,
I would be really really interested to learn more about your trip do you have a blog/diary?

DAVSATO,
How much to spend... good question... some of us are students & others can afford a bike off the shelf... which makes the idea of all being all on the same bike A LOT harder... nobody will be buying brand new but a 1-2 y/o bike is a possibility except for the students... where over €5K is out of the question...

Lois on the Loose is now on order from Amazon... and we are looking into a dirt bike day out event to get us a bit more dirt bike experience...


Anybody have negatives on a lowered BMW F650GS ?

Read all you can. Dirt bike class is good but seat time is what really counts. A two day seminar is good and will get you in touch with basics. But practice is what counts.

If you do your research, following Ride reports here and over on ADV, you'll learn about the F650GS problems, which are many.

For my money, the F650GS is:
Over priced
Heavy
Expensive to fix at BMW dealer
In some cases requires proprietary dealer computers to work on
More frequent break downs than comparable Japanese bikes

Look at what Lois rides NOW, not what she rode when she was starting out as a raw beginner. That Serow she had was junk from the day she started. She should have never taken it. The book will make this very clear.

Lois NOW is riding another Yamaha. But a nicer, newer one. A TT250. One of the toughest little bikes out there and reasonably priced. I listed this bike in my initial list back a few posts. It's way way better than the Serow, is light and can be made fairly low. (lowering links)

The Serow is a mid 80's design, the TT250 came along in about 2005.

If you end up going two up, the Suzuki Vstrom (DL650) is the best bike in the world at the moment, all things considered, IMHO. The more you read and study, the more obvious this will become.

The Suzuki DRZ400 is a fantastic bike but not two up capable. Should be on your short list for the males in your group. Also consider XT600, KLR650, DR650. All good RTW bikes if set up properly. :D

Hi Popex, i have not got round to a blog yet although i have photos in my Facebook (search for Andrew Burke, glasgow). Our route was ferry from Uk to Holland, Belgium, germany (visit Nurburging), Czech, Slovakia, Hungary (recommend Bikers Route 66 camp site), Romania (Transfargan and Transalpina), Moldova, Ukraine (Arabat Spit), Russia, ferry to Turkey (Trabzon-Bayburt, Road of Stones, Cappadocia, Pukkalle, Kas, friendliest people), greece,, Bulgaria, Macedonia, Albania (great trail riding), Montenegro, Bosnia, Croatia, Slovenia, Italy, Switzerland Austria, Lichtenstein, germany, Holland and Home to Scotland.
We had no problems at any border, were not asked for bribes and met only friendly people. Make sure your paperwork is good. Daily costs were 40-50 Euros in E Europe (mainly cheap hotels) & 50-60 Euros in W Europe (mainly camping) each. Any questions just ask. Andy B

yeah i dont suggest she tries to get a serow, sorry if i gave that impression!:(
you wont find one less than 15yrs old now? when did they stop making them? they'll all be field bikes by now

just get her to read the book and she'll either come over all 'girl power' or be put off the whole idea forever. the second book wasnt as good, maybe because she didnt have to cope with an old underpowered overloaded bike?

No worries Dave,
Just pointing out that Lois's bike was well knackered to begin with.
Funny thing is, Yam continued to make the XT225 Serow's into the 2000's. Like maybe until 2002 or something? Hard to believe, I know!

If Lois had started on a new one, she'd have been fine. But that POS had her doing multiple repairs and rebuilds (usually by guys who did not do great work) from AK to Argentina!

Made for a funny story! But having traveled like that in my youth, I'm done with it. As a former Bultaco owner, I've had my share of pushing bikes as opposed to riding them.

Now that weve isolated a few issues and have mentioned one particular aspect I believe that it will now be prudent to start talking specifics.

"I have no idea how much of my path will be off-road... but we want to leave the door open if we like it to head across Kazakhstan"

I still stand by recommending the Big BMW GS for two up riding - and as was correctly noted it is for TWO UP... so not so much of an issue for the 5 ft3 lass besides these bikes are not as big as they look and the seat hight can be reduced. they are however bloody heavy!

In an ideal world take the same bikes so that you have back ups of everything, although it does leave the door open to having to carry three of the same part that the particular bike is reknown for breaking... I dont think that this would be an issue for you.

I am still guessing that you are going to be buying second hand.
Three (older) bikes spring to mind instantly:

Yamaha XT600 - big enough to handle the motorways comfortably and the luggage and in a contingency carry a pillion if their bike breaks down or are injured and cant ride and need to get to hospital / hotel / bar or giving a lift...
The stalwart of the travel market and there are always loads for sale in Germany for less than €1000 check ebay out

Honda Africa Twin 750cc Another bike thats earned its reputation in the adventure travel market, but possibly on the larger side than you require. Again can be brought for peanuts.
Along side this to a lesser extent the Yamaha XTZ750 Tenere. (I would recommend the honda... but buy the Yammy cos I'm passionate)

Suzuki DR350 - Has a taller gearing (and 5th gear) than its newer 400 sibling so is more relaxed on motorways. Its also a taller bike than the 600, but in reality if you are already an accomplished rider you will adapt to it. and in a year you can become accomplished.

Anything smaller could pose a liability when you hit a fast A road or downright dangerous on a motorway when you cant keep up with lorries


New bikes I would recommend the Yamaha XT660z Tenere (new one 2008 onwards) but this is not a short bike. as an all around unit it is the ideal bike for what you described, but its very very tall.
Tall bikes can be intimidating but experience overcomes that.


Someone also mentioned that Kawasaki KLE 500 and its a great newer cheap bike alongside the Aprillia Pegaso, and considerably more expensive Honda transalp.

fact of the matter is you'll buy it, ride it then sell it afterwards to reduce the cost of the holiday, and on those terms a cheap Yamaha XT600 with large tank (tenere) and existing skid plate, and side panniers from someone who has done the same thing will be perfect.

G

The XT225 Serow production ended in Japan in 2005, when it was replaced by the XT250 Serow. My own 250 Serow's now 4 1/2 years old and covered 73,000 miles. The XT225 continued in production of a few more years in Brazil.

The TTR250 has the edge for heavier off road use, due to it's far superior suspension but I really rate my own XT250 Serow.

Well mate, you've kind of revealed one of the major weak spots with the BM right there, eh? :rolleyes2: Weight! The bike is a bit of a Pig with a 1150 weighing in at about 600 lbs. wet, no luggage. Compare that with anything! :scared:

I would also point out the multiple problems the GS's seem to repeatedly have. Shaft bearings, final drive, trans, ABS, broken frames, mysterious electrical issues and on an on.

The BMW is simply too big, too heavy for a newbie. It's also overpriced for it's only so-so reliability. Many have done very well on them but there is a large percentage of riders with documented probs. For a newbie, I'd give the BM a pass. Only the F800GS (or F650 twin) would make my short list, both super great bikes but expensive.

I'd not stress much about taking the same bike. If a Japanese bike is taken and is well set up and serviced before departure, chances of major show stopping problems are unlikely. Main thing is get a bike that makes everyone smile.

Also, in your list of new singles you neglected the venerable DR650. I believe this bike is currently sold in Austria? Unlike the UK where it's been banished for a decade. The DR can be lowered enough to accomodate a 5' 0" tall woman. I've ridden one set up this way. It worked fantastic, even lowered down! This bike is simple, light, air/oil cooled and is quite hard to break.

Better road bike than the DR350 but not that much heavier, so off road is quite good. Can do about 47 to 50 mpg, very low maintenance. Could even be used Two Up but would be cramped unless both parties are smaller folks.

For two up the Vstrom DL650 is hard to beat given any realistic comparison. Price, weight, reliability, pack-a-bility, versatility. It's simply
world class and does well nearly everywhere.

I agree the XT600 would make a great choice as well. Not sure the AT would be ideal for a newbie rider.

Guys get with the program - and read all the little words.
Very specifically, in every instance that it has been recommended by anyone on this thread, the BMW GS has been suggested as a two up solution.

Imagine two-up on an XT600 (I use this example cos Ive had one and love it) with loaded panniers and a pillion, on a motorway in the wet with heavy articulated trucks doing 70 mph. - pretty much your worst day ever.
Only one bike suitable.

So BMW GS = Two-up can we get past that?

I agree with the DR650 and the KLR 650 as alternative bikes.
For those who can't be bothered to read the whole post, my suggestions and opinions are based around my presumption that they are doing this on the cheap hence suggesting those older 2nd hand bikes.

I have thought about 1 other bike, that is suitable for use on crap roads as well as motorways and in this instance ideal for those looking for a lower seat hight.

THE TRIUMPH SCRAMBLER.



Lastly as these chaps have an adventurous spirit and are concerned about one person not riding and the pillions options have you thought about the venerable URAL?


Cheers G

P.S. As for the BMW reliability issues; the negativity is spread by people who dont and wont own them. They are absolutely rock solid reliable, by comparison to any other bike.
In point of fact, I have had a drive shaft go on me - 130,000 miles and it was very obvious that it was going to go, over the course of 500 miles the drive mechanism got steadily more clunky until it finally severed. They are expected to last 80,000 miles - mine managed an extra 50 thousand - cant complain.
£99 moto-bins sorted it out How many chains is that over 130,000 miles? And how much less dangerous than an exposed chain flinging itself around No other non-disposable issues and I am now on 42,000 miles with the second BMW.

Oh and by the way Nath thought your comments about the lady not carrying much in the way of luggage was rather tongue in cheek, and subject to many generalised jokes - well i thought it was funny!

(The BMW negative is you get fiscally sodomized whenever you go to a dealer for servicing)

wow they were going that long? for sale in this country? i only remember it in showrooms when i was looking for my first bike 12yrs ago and then the seemed to disappear.

A pal of mine (back years ago) - well his dad - had an FJ1100 that was on just over 200,000 miles. So by your reckoning, Yamaha are much better/more reliable than even a (shock/horror) BMW :eek3:

Hi Dave,

they were never offered as anything other than an import, so it's not a machine that you'd see on the floor of a Yammy dealers. Therefore I could see how you'd get the impression they'd stopped production.

The 2005, XT250 was in fact the 20th anniversary Serow model!

Hi for a female rider, who's looking to build confidence, I suggest a Suzuki DR350, its got enough engine to keep up, but it's not too heavy. A woman should quickly build confidence with a bike like this, and if wanted to, could trade it in for a bigger along the way. Just an idea.
Enjoy your trip planning.

I think everyone here is aware the GS suggestion was meant for two up. That's not the issue. I stand by everything said in post #30. READ THE SMALL WORDS: The BMW GS1100/1150 are too big, too heavy and too complex for a Newbie Student on a budget. It's also too expensive and too unreliable! Two up or Solo, I don't believe it's the right choice. YMMV.

Plenty of better bikes, including the one that several posters here have suggested: DL650. Great two up bike for half the price, none of the BMW nonsense. I'm sure you've owned one, so you know, right? I've owned several BMW's over the years. All had trouble. Over and over. I like the F800GS however and would own one! I'm so done with Boxers. :nono:

As I said before, the DR650 is, I believe, sold NEW in Austria. No need for a 2nd hand bike if buying in Austria. KLR and DR650 also sold new in USA.

Most here have owned them or currently own them. I doubt anyone in this dimension would characterize them as "rock solid", except some very eccentric Germans! :smartass:

Is the front wheel hovvering in mid-air in that photo??????

Popex, as you can clearly see from this thread tastes diver. People will get the brand they like and stick with it.
You still have lots of time, so get out there and find your taste. I think all the mentioned bike are all good candidates in their own right. The important thing is to get all 3 of you comfortable and confident on a bike.
On a trip like this you will have to compromise anyway even if you are all on the same type of motorcycle, peoples riding styles differ.
Don’t break your head about this, by the time you are ready to buy the bike you will do your trip with you would have made the right decision.
:scooter:

yes thats about the best advice on the thread. get your friend to have a few lessons, see if she will even want to ride, then look at as many different bikes as you can before you pick one to concentrate on buying. different styles too, dont think you must have a dual sport to have a good trip

MickyD,

I visited the Suzuki dealer this weekend... it looks like the DR*** model bikes aren't in Austria... i went on the US web page & sure enough there they are... so it looks like the DR suggestions are out... the other thing about the more dirt specific bike is they tend to be taller... and for the lady, this will be a show stopper I am sure of it... I can't find that Ninja, but I gotta look harder...

I think I've decided that the lady will jsut have to get a different bike than the others... something less than 10 years old... less than EUR 5K... Can be dropped all day long... not so much electronic engine control... with a short seat height... which when loaded with only 1 45L pouch can keep up with whatever the 2 boys get...

Hi Andysr6,

Wow, what a route! I wish I could buy you a beer & chat about it. I tried to find you on FB... but there was too many people with your same name... could you PM me the email address that you use for FB & then I am sure I could find you!

I'll respond to everyone else when I get back from this meeting that I am late to now... :blushing:

DAVSATO & MickyD,

These Yamaha's that you are mentioning they don't have in Austria :-(

What they do have is something called a WR250F... but the seat height kills it even for me... let alone the lady at 990... :eek3:

Photgraphisafaries,
Thanks for the ideas on the XT600 & Tenure, the bummer is one is older than I would like and as you said the other is too tall for us at 890... whereas I'm still a good 2-4 cm from getting my heels down on that Vstrom at 820 & TransAlp at 841...

And that Kawasaki KLE 500 they also don't do in Austria!? I guess Austria just isn't where it is at...

Now on to the Triumph... not to sure how many we get out here in Austria... but i love where you are going with this... i forgot about them little old school bad boys... unfortunatly the Scrambler has an 830 cm seat height...

However the Bonneville is sitting pretty at 740cm... but is a beast at 200kg... are there any Triumphs that were made in the alst 10 years that can take a beating with a low seat height? I forgot how much I like Triumph bikes...

I think I will also kill the idea of the 1000+ BMW GS's due to cost & seat height...

ta-all-the-way,

thanks for the idea, I think that bike the size of a DR350 is also the right answer... but they don't have them out here in Austria... :-(

-

Current thinking...
 

So here is my :rolleyes2: rant (half way to help me figure out what is going on in my head) about what I am thinking now:

2 Guys: The 1 coming from the US will just have to buy a bike on arrival and take the best price he gets on departure... however, he should be on the same bike as the guy in Austria... The bikes currently under consideration (given what is available in Austria):
- Suzuki Vstrom (post 2006 to get the ABS breaks) (820mm)
- Honda TransAlp (I don't know enough about them to say a certian year range, but still I'd like one 5 years old max with low Ks) (841mm)
- Yamaha XT660R... probably way too tall at 865... were the older ones shorter? but worth a test drive
- BMW F650GS... I don't like the idea of how electronically controlled & full of sensors & so costly to maintain... but again worth a test drive... I think I would lean to the newer twin... but that gets pricy...

As for the lady, I am still as confused as ever... but the idea is put her on a smaller bike & the guys take 90% of her luggage/gear...
- something that won't feel toooooo slow on the motorways (and can mostly keep up with the above bikes when they are loaded)
- Less than 10 years old
- preferably less than 3 or 4 grand... preferably
- Easy enough to work on (in case something goes wrong)
- One that can be dropped over and over...
- A REALLY low seat height

The bike that comes to mind (from reading all the other forums...) would be that KLM 400 Military bike... but it seems only available in Germany... & it seems that it has doubled in price in the last 2 years... Germany is close enough to Austria & we could register it in Germany no problem......................... ideas on where to find one?


Comments are... as always.... welcome!

Sorry to hear that. I thought maybe it would be there. I would contact LukasM, an Austrian member here on HUBB and on ADV rider. He is a bike expert and owns a DR650, among many other bikes. Maybe he can help you out finding a bike? He is in Vienna. Go to "Travelers list" to PM him. He is very experienced.
I only mentioned the DR650 Suzuki, not the Yamaha. How hard is it to buy a bike in another EU country outside Austria? France, UK and Germany all have tons of good used bikes.

The WR250F is quite tall. It is a Race Bike, not street legal.
But there is another Yamaha Dual sport called the WR250R. The "R" model is a good street legal dual sport bike but no doubt also TOO TALL for your girl friend. Also, The "R" model is very expensive. So OUT for that one.

The Yamaha you should look at is the bike Lois rode: TT250

Have you actually SAT ON a DL650 Vstrom? I have a friend who is only 5'4" and does just fine on his Vstrom 650. (DL650) This bike you could go two up or Solo.

If you insist on getting your feet flat on the ground then you will end up on some 250 Cruiser bike. Trust me! You do NOT need to be flat footed. As long as the balls of your feet can touch (both) you will adapt no problem after a couple weeks of riding. Not that hard to do.
Only the early TT600 or perhaps the Street Triple? Neither are good touring bikes. Scrambler and Bonneville may be too expensive, and heavy, as you discovered.
"Not having in Austria" seems to be a underlying theme here. You really need to contact LukasM to find out how to find a good bike there.

Safe riding!

Hi guys,
I've just looked over this thread and couldn't stay away. I own a motorcycle rental station in Romania (Transylvania), last year two US bikers came and rented 2 BMW F650's for a similar adventure, unfortunately they just managed to reach Sinop (Turkey), they had a nasty accident, one of them was killed by a stupid Turkish driver, the other one managed to get home, my bikes were totaled, still in Turkey. I just want to say TAKE BIG CARE!!!!
On the other hand I have 5 BMW F650GS and 2 F650F bikes in my fleet, one of F650F has lowering kit, so is low enough to reach the ground for a 40 kilo Japanese girl, also the bike is gentle enough for a novice girl to handle but can cope with lorries on main road and handles rough terrain as well (I rode this bike in forest just last year with off-roader mates). So far this bike was rented almost for female riders. So consider this.
Another thing to consider is the fact that last season one of the BMW F650 GS's went to Ukraine and Russia than back with side cases, and extra luggage, 2 up, had no problems at all. All the bikes are making at least 10000 km/ season and so far had no any problems, just 2 flats a day.
F650GS is a gentle bike ideal for beginners, just enough for adventurers.
If you reach Romania on the trip call me, if you need help. You can find me at Home. All the best.:thumbup1:

whoa there, thats a full on MX bike and an animal, you will have great fun though, for an hour or two!
i still say the suzuki drz400 is a great bike, but if you cant get them in austria, well........
if you like yamahas look at the TTs, 250 or 600.
or honda XL400?

perhaps a good idea?

another bike you might like to check out for the lady, is a Kawasaki KLE500.
I know they can have their seats lowered, and they are robust. I have a friend with one, and he swears by it.

The KLE500 is another bike we never got in the US but I've seen them all over Europe and in the UK. Great bike if not a bit heavy. It uses the SAME motor as the Ninja 500 (ZZR500) mentioned earlier in this thread.

I met a British woman touring on one in Italy. She was tiny and having the time of her life. It was lowered, she was about 5'2" or so and the bike was fully loaded up.

been MIA for a while but I've been busy...

I ended up buying one of the German Military KTMs... unfortunately there is not a heap of them on the market so they hold thier price better than I was hoping, but with all the kit it comes with and for being a 4 year old bike it is still a good deal (i think).

I haven"t had a chance to get on it for a proper ride yet thanks to the crappy weather, but as soon as i do I will give you all an update.

Thanks to everyone who helped with advice on here!

What you need is three of these. but fit the low seat (720mm) to the one for the lady and standard dual seats to the other two (saving money).
If you wish you can have 21" front wheel but I would avoid that so you only need one tyre and tube size.

You can buy 22 liters ( 400 miles range) tanks for about £150 from Price parts ( you could probably rent something similar or do a buy back deal with him.
http://www.haywards.co.uk/Trail_efi.jpg

what is that ?

PS had a 5 hr ride on the KTM Military bike this weekend... so far happy with it... It certainly vibrates tho, which people chalk up to it being a 1 cylinder... It is also noticeably less stable when zipping around the autobahn at 120kmph+

The guy I bought it from recommended cruising between 80 and 100...

Whilst the seat is comfy enough.. after 2 or 3 hrs in the saddle I was already thinking how I could make it more comfy... any ideas guys?

Oh & the hand heaters have 2 settings... uncomfortably hot and is it on? so you just toggle through them...

oh, and as far as height... I am 5' 8" and can flat foot it fine... not a lot of extra room tho...

But the shorter lady can't even tip toe it... :(

thread revival & update...

I ended up buying a KTM LC4 Military... that i am still "getting to know" to put it nicely.:rolleyes:

The Shorty lady is in the process of getting her license & I am back to the drawing board of what bike to get her.

So far the ones I have "narrowed" it down to are pre 2000 model DR's, XT's, GPZ (ninja's) KLE's and the Honda XL(R)...

I think most of these I will have to lower... but what does lowering a bike really mean???

How do you do it (other than buying a thiner seat)?

And for the above bikes how much would it cost to lower ?