GS Reliabilty ?
 

Hi all

I'm currently looking for a new steed to take me to foreign lands and have decided on a big trailie, probably a GS. I had a good look on the ukgser site and more than a few of the posts seemed to be slating the reliabilty of the 1200 which has really put me off. Obviously the GS is a popular option so it cant be that bad. I'm thinking more 1150 anyway but just looking for a little reassurance from some impartial people that they are in general a decent bike and worth the extra money.

Any opinions appreciated.

Thanks

If I had a choice of big GSs to do RTW, it would be pre-2 spark 1150. Like an '02.

You'll get many opinions, I'm sure

A decent bike, but worth the extra money? Hmm...

Final drives !
The thought of having to rebuild one of those buggers in the middle of nowhere makes chains and sprockets look very appealing .

If you know your machine, a failing final drive will talk to you well before it becomes crispy toast.

I put the 4th rear drive bearing in my 1150, but now the motor is fked with a broken left cam chain rail at 155k miles.

The rear drive bearing and seal can be changed at most any type of mech shop. Just need to carry the spares with you.

The 1150s really don't have tranny probs, relatively speaking. The 2 spark and servo brake 1150s have their own slight issues.

The 1200s have various new bike issues that have not all been resolved yet. This bike is still an open can.

-- " If you know your machine, a failing final drive will talk to you well before it becomes crispy toast " --

I know,
-- but I can slap new sprockets on my bike without special tools and be on my way with a chain sourced [ perhaps] from an agricultural dealer in less than an hour . Without having to go looking for a mech shop .
I love the IDEA of shaft drive , but BMW 's single sided swing arm [ IMHO ] puts too much stress on the bearing and is instrumental in it's short life expectancy .
Great for short trips , but heavily laden RTW ?
Maybe they have cured the problem with the 1200 GS - and I really hope so !
But I wouldn't choose one for RTW myself .

Now - that new and much awaited F 800 GS well that might just be the bike to tempt me to buy German .

No, the problem hasn't been fixed. And more probs are there than before the 1150s.

I do not disagree with your post.

I wouldn't touch any of their new bikes until they've been proven.

Belt drive ?
 

> The new BMW will be belt drive.
The new F800'es have belt drive but I was told by my BMW dealer the F800GS will have chain drive.

> I love belt drive on the Buell's I've ridden.
So do I. And modern beltdrives are strong. I have been riding on my uncle's Harley Lowrider in South Africa. His belt drive was replaced at 100.000 km of hard use on paved and dirt roads in Zimbabwe and South Africa so reliability is no problem. ( I made a testride on the Buell Ulysses and it was a great bike. Just a bit to high for me. I could barely touch the ground.)

Belt drives are great ,provided they are perfectly aligned and you can keep small stones out of them .
It will be interesting to see what BMW can come up with for the new GS .
As far as weight is concerned a magazine article about the F800 S and ST mentions 402 lbs which is only a little bit more than an F65O Dakar .

BMW's
 

If you're going solo, at least consider the smallest GS, the F650GS, probably the Dakar. Chain final drive, great mileage, reliable and proven. Opinions vary widely, ride one for yourself and see what you think. I currently have my Dakar loaded for a trip to AK. I rode it this morning to scrub in the new tires and with the full load it still handles quite well. I am not a small guy, 6' 200lbs. With the weight of the panniers, rack, and all my gear, everything added to the bike, it's 78lbs. That includes a lot of water and enough food for a week, and full camping and cooking gear. While it's not a speed deamon, even with that load the bike has adequate power to accelerate, climb, etc, quite adequately, all the while getting tremendouns mileage. For solo adventure touring, especially if any real amount of offroad or sand will be encountered, it's not a bad choice for some folks.

I know several folks with 12GS's. Some have had problems, some of the problems stop the bike dead. The 07's will have different, non-servo brakes. Personally, for the money I'd rather have an 1100 or 1150 outfitted with the 41 liter TT tank and other goodies from TT. They're heavier than the 12's, but much more simple.

GS ! which one ?
 

I don't understand why nobody mention HP2 as a RTW horse?
It needs a large fuel tank, a new seat and that's it.
It looks much more better option than 1200 gs.

I busted out laughing..:)

Well written. Love this stuff....

I have BM's however thinking of going Japanese
 

My wife and I got a couple of old airheads for our trip from London to Russia. Halfway across Russia the drive shaft goes on my R100. 10 days wait for a new one, plus Russian and not much to do. BM's are great when you can get spare however Japanese bikes are more common in Russia and most of Asia, so it's Japanese from now on.

Ken
www.kenandtoni.com

so you waited 10 days...
 

having the remote scenario of waiting 10 days is still to me far better than carrying spare chains/sprockets or constantly worrying that your current chain will last until you get to a town that stocks them. It is amazing how few places stock chains for big bikes. as for belts, they are less reliable than shafts and much more prone to failure.

Essentially nothing goes wrong on the BM's. The 1200GS just works, as does the F650GS. They (well the F650GS I know at least) work even when incessant torrential rain gets into the black box and shorts everything out. The bike switches into default mode (fuel consumption drops, abs is out) until the black box is dried out.

on the F650ST (carbs) I worried about tires, chains, and my speedo cable went.
on the F650GS I worry about tires and chains. it does not use oil.
on the 1200GS/GSA I worry about tires.

:) ...ok...

I know of a great deal on some beachfront property....

Er...?
My mates '05 Dakar just spent two months at the local BMW dealer while they tried to sort an electrical fault which made the bike die without warning. In the end, after endless buggering around with their diagnostic computer which kept misguiding them to the wrong problems, they fixed the problem by replacing ALL the ignition and engine management etc. electrics on the bike. A week later in Norway he burst his fork seals.
I remain to be convinced BMWs deserve their reputation for reliability. Personally, I'd go Japanese every time. :)
Matt

""- Essentially nothing goes wrong on the BM's. The 1200GS just works, as does the F650GS- ""

Oh damn ! Now I've just spilt tea all over the keyboard !

I would not imagine running a 1200 GS RTW. Possible it maybe But I would be reluctant to take one far away from a dealer. I don't need to look the part, just prefer to have a bike that I can fix and is not going to cost the earth.

Below is the cost of running my GS for six months, I never finished a trip without a problem.

BMW R1200 GS 12000 mile report

Service cost
6000 mile service £152.44 inc. vat
6000 miles Rear Pirelli 607 - £100 inc. vat
12000 mile service £188.24 inc. vat
12000 miles Front and rear Pirelli 607 - £181.00 inc. vat
10000 miles Replaced head light bulb £3.00 (Morroco price)

Fuel - 52 mpg estimated, £965
Oil consumption – Negligible, non added

Insurance - £175 pa

Warrantee
500 miles fuel sender not working - Replaced Fuel sender
3000 miles LH indicator stopped working - Replaced LH handlebar switch
4500 miles starter switch sticking - Replaced RH handlebar switch
6000 miles rear brake judder - Replaced rear disc and pads
6000 miles play in rear drive box - Replaced rear drive box
12000 miles rear brake judder - Replaced rear disc and pads
12000 miles front brake judder - Replaced front discs and pads
12000 miles leaking Front shock - Replaced FSU
12000 miles leaking RH fork seal - Replaced fork seal
Horn stops working during extended use -Unresolved

Accessories
GPS, MP3, AutoCom Bike to Bike, 2nd accessory socket BMW Heated Grips, BMW panniers.

eh, tu
 

My F650GSD has been grief for 3 weeks out of 4 on my Alaska trip due to a voltage regulator going bad, then a week later something similar to your experience - dying without warning. I spent 4 days in Anchorage at the BMW dealer where they ran down various faults from the diagnostic computer, but no real solution. I spent a week doing the 750 miles from Anchorage to Haines to catch the ferry down to Seattle ($800 for me and the bike) to take it to my dealer there. I'm thinking the same thing - it'll come down to replacing the engine management system.

Suzuki DRZ400
 

I've done some long distance on a DRZ400 and have been happy with it.
Sure, it's not the best bike for long miles on tarmac. But it is a fantastic bike for dirt roads, when packed light. Simple and reliable. Can be set for long distance relatively cheap. If you load it with too much luggage, the main advantage will be lost. And for RTW, that may be an issue. But I would definitely consider it it you plan to do lot of riding on bad roads.

Hi Mollydog,
Apart from having had to adjust ones chain adjusters many times, what are the signs of a knackered chain? I know that if you can pull it away from the the rear sprocket some way that indicates a worn chain but are their specific 'service limits' for this and other tests.
Cheers,
Matt

Thanks Patrick, apart from punctures, my chain was the only thing that gave me trouble on my last big trip (entirely due to neglect from me :( ) so I'm a bit more chain conscious now!)

Previous 1100 did 60K. Absolutely no problems till written off crash.
Current 1100 is at the 45K. Absolutely no problems.

Both are 1998. (the '97-'99 are the most sorted-out 1100s)

I don't pussycat with the right hand eighter. Lot of two up and mostly potholed roads and gravel here in the eastern-block periphery.

On travelling, I always carry the final drive main bearing, the seal and few different size spacing shims with me. It all costed me 75$ from the BMW dealer. Knowing how to replace it you can do it on the road in a smart way (hot exhaust or primus and cool water comes in hand removing and installing the bearing ;) ), not knowing how to do it, then you can go to nearest car-repair garage anywhere in the world, any car mechanic knows how to replace the bearing. The bearing set costs about 3X less than a hi-tec X- or O-ring chain i used on my previous sports bikes, it lasts at least 3X more (looking at my current GS mileages) on my riding style and the set also takes about 3X less storage space to carry with me than a chain set with the sprockets.

After my Iran mid-summer expedition 17+K with absolutely no maintenance done on the bike (compare it to the maintenance intervals of wet-clutched and same oil gearboxed bikes), average temperatures were over +30C, only kicking it, and doing here around 50% on the gravel roads both of my 1998 R1100GS have proven to be completely bullet proof bikes. (Well, the only bike i've had breakdown on the road was my 600cc Suzuki GSX sports - their electrical side is legendary for me)

Bottom line, would take my trusty 1100 GS RTW today.

Just my 2 cents for what's it worth.



EDIT: service costs

I do all the services and the bike's health monitoring my own. I don't trust any BMW dealer. I think they are the main reason of all the faults and breakdowns because they have absolutely NO motivation to service YOUR bike with care. One of the most uncompetent bike mechanics i've meet with are the BMW-service ones.

I use the cheapest line of semi synth car oil (low revving, robust, dry clutched, separate gearbox oiled machine doesn't need any better than this). Air filter clean/re-oil (K&N) or MANN paper air filter (home use, better filtration for the gravel roads), oil filter (MANN, exacly the OEM but no "BMW" marked on it, cheaper), valve check/adjustment (easy, 15 minutes job on a boxer), throttle body syncronisation (maximum 5 minute job with my ultra-precise home made $5 syncer), gearbox reoiled, final drive reoiled (both with the cheapest GL-5 spec car transmission oil), ABS/brakes bleeding, all the cables oiled - i've calculated the average cost of the materials less than $50 per service, usually around $40. I do the major service every 10K because it is so cheap, altough BMW specifies to do it every 20K and minor service inbetween. It's the cheapest to run and easiest to maintain bike i've ever owned so far. I do everyday communiting with the very same bike as well.

Happy travels, Margus

Hi Margus.

If I were going to do an RTW with a big GS, it would either be an 1100 or pre-'03 1150. I have an '02 1150 and finally had some major internal motor problems after 160,000 miles (both top cam chain rails broke within 10k of each other which requires splitting the cases, and a broken valve at around 155k). Just before the failure, I'd installed it's 4th rear bearing and seal. This bike has been virtually trouble free, other than what's noted. And as you said, a spare bearing and seal can be carried. Cost of these parts is approx $135us for the 1150s.

The 1200 is so far an unknown, but what has popped are problems not experienced before on the previous models, due to some major design changes. This would not be my bike of choice for an extensive trip. People read their propoganda and sometimes drink their Kool-Aid, but they have some things to work out before it can ever really become what they've touted.

If I'm on a trip over 1,000 miles I do. I started riding when chains weren't nearly as good and the 3lbs or so for a chain and sprocket might be needless, but, it's comforting.

You calling the US uncivilized? It's pretty easy to be a few hundred miles from a BMW dealer here.

I don't trust most of the mechanic wannabees, whether they are car or motorcycle as i stated before, read more carefully next time :smartass: . It was a tip for the BMW riders going into third world and afraid of it really fails, then the local BMW dealer rip you off around 1000EURos for a complete bevel box replacement rather than just a 40 to 60 EURos bearing and/or seal replacement.

My DID X ring chain costed about the same, a bit more so around 3X more expensive than the BMW (it's FAG acctually, but only made for BMW) bearing that is the only thing failing basically. D.I.D. lasted just a bit more than a 20K under my GSX. Here in Estonia we have lot of gravel roads and the main roads are dirty too. One chain set i tryed to clean and lubricate every 500 kilometres (yes, idiotic small interval!) as the D.I.D. specified, hands dirty, wheels dirty and lot of mess even with the delicate use of cleaning liquid and the chain oil. I also monitored the tightness of the chain as well before every ride. It gave me another 5000kilometres, so i got the blessing 26Ks out per set. No scottoiler what so ever would have helped me. Simply, no chains for me anymore please if i do lot of annual communiting mileage and travel a lot.

I'll make it clear: even IF the shaft FD lasts around constant 30K, i'd still prefer it above chain IMHO. But it's proven for me now it lasts much more than this indeed. Everything that moves wears, so like the chain and sprockets i consider the bearing a consumable part on the same way, but much cheaper and hassle free version of it to maintain in a "real life". If it comes to sports bikes and racing, i wouldn't consider the shaft tho, but i'm no racing guy. The chain has it's charm as well for me, so don't get me wrong. It all depends from the given purpose and your needs, it's the con and pros of the both systems you have to choose between.


I think my bike is definately NOT rare in BMW reliability. I think those have increased probability of having constant or nasty failures who let the service be done by the dealers. I know lot of BMW (also jap) riders to back up that statment, also i know riders who have the bikes beyond 100+K with no problems and who are competent and passionate bike owners (all work done by their own). I have first hand experience on both - european and japanese bikes, unlike you who only "back up" the village gossips and stories going around. Not saying BMW is some icon in reliability, certanly not, but it's definately not losing any ground to japs. If there's a man riding the bike who services and knows his bike throughoutly, then there's no difference what bike you ride.


Oh really? :D

It's really assuring to hear someone with the first hand experiences commenting it.

What about my friend's V-Strom 1000 blown clutch, bad noise from the valves and poor engine EFI factory tuning on the low revs, noisy plastics and bad wind buffeting, oil radiator leakage from a rock hit it from the front wheel because it's so badly engineered and put on so wierd place?

My GSX'es worn out ignition wiring agains the frame, short circuited coil, blowing fuses and fireworks directly below the fuel tank just around 15K from a brand new bike, or should i be happy not to be sent to the Moon with the fueltank explosion or the bike completely burnt down? :w00t:

...or do i have to say those are a very rare type of japanaese bikes and i should not listen all the gossips going around the village about the poor japanese bikes reliability? Yamaha R6 and R1 electricity issues, Honda's blown cam chains, stretched valves and broken frames on Kawasakis, lot of brand new bike recalls etc stories, do i have to listen them all and take it as an absolute truth about japanese bikes? :)


Not superior in the first comparision, a quarter century old stuff anyway on all of them, only the new BMWs has that can-bus digital. But in my direct experiences with the Suzuki, it's electricity has been VERY bad. Mechanically the bike was reliable till the 50Ks when i sold it. But from the electricity side i say the old bmw farts have done 10 years ahead work with the simple and basic wiring technique than the sukzuki boys at the factory. There's no excuse to wire the cables so that they wore out with the vibrations, the fragile connections and poor quality welding spots, dangerous "russian-roulette" business they do there in the "safely thinking" Japan.


Good to hear someone has experienced the surging. Haven't even felt it, with the both 1100, friend's very first 1994 "beta" version of the 1100, early 1150 and the brand new 1200 testdrived.

Now let me think the reason - BMW dealer who cannot sync the TBs correctly or adjust the valve clearance wrong enough...? Oops...


Did you just sayed the word "design"?


Glad to hear there are very experienced fellows out there! The more of them there are, the more technical 'know-how' there is and and the more "reliable" (what's that?) bikes there will be in the World.


Ride the bike you like and ride safe, Margus :)

I must confess, the thing that gets me about beemers is not they are bad, I'm sure they're not. But here at least they are SO much more expensive than an equivelent Japanese bike and, in the best case scenario, equally reliable.
Why spend more on a bike that's no better?
I agree we should all ride the bike we like (hell, my other bike's an Enfield!), I'm just non-plussed by BMW popularity.
Please enlighten! :)
Matt

Yamaha XT600E: So good I feel like I should be saluting it before I get on.

[QUOTE=Matt Cartney]But here at least they are SO much more expensive than an equivelent Japanese bike and, in the best case scenario, equally reliable.
Why spend more on a bike that's no better?
I agree we should all ride the bike we like (hell, my other bike's an Enfield!), I'm just non-plussed by BMW popularity.
Please enlighten! :)

I would ask why people buy Harley Davidsons coz they're so damn bloody expensive? :) Lifestyle? Hmm.. Could be, but ask from Peter Forwood who has ridden his over 400 000 kilometres and decades around the world now. I'm sure it's just not about it would be the answer.

I think BMWs aren't that "SO" much expensive if you look at the package what you do get. Paralever shaft drive, telelever or duolever, ABS, even the heated grips as a standard. Bosch Motronic brain etc, lot of bits are european made indeed (MZ, Ducatis, Guzzis, Agustas etc are NOT cheap eighter).

Those technologies acctually put the BMWs into relatively different technical class compared to other "classical" bikes (regular forks, chain, no ABS, etc) - you can't compare them directly in the price terms. You can always say you get "much more bike" in that price with the new Enfield or Hyong Hung compared to similar new Honda for example, if you look at the basic biking principle - to ride. But why do we have expensive space shuttles still working, not the cheap russian space modules? Because they are the niche! There's nothing else like it in the world (besides russian copy, the Buran that failed due USSRs financial reasons)

The boxer twin is only made by the BMW (russian Urals and Dneprs and the new chinese ones are acctually exact copies from pre-WW2 BMWs). Also the flat inline-3- & 4 (older K bikes, not the new K1200) was only made by BMWs. The telelever is only used by them, also the paralever was a niche for a 20 years (now the latest models of Moto Guzzis have finally "copied" it, but indeed, Guzzis are another niche with their v-twin engine positioning).

So despite it's a good overall package like the GS in the travelenduro side or the RT in the sport-tourer side, i guess it's also kind of "originality" or "think different" feel among many BMW buyers-users. Just like the Honda Goldwing owners - it's the only boxer-6- or -4 on the bikes world and the users are extremely loyal to it just like the BMW boxer-2 users are. Or the Porsches or the Subarus in the cars for example.

Look at the BMWs basic package like the rotax-bmw F650 - well it's a bit more expensive than a competitors, but not much. Also the new 650 single's replacement, the new F800 parallel twin basic bikes will be relatively well priced compared to the japanese competitors. Thus I think BMW tries to emphasise the boxer R- and inline 4 K-bikes more as a niche product with those innovative technologies. But everybody don't want those, don't have any need for those technologies, that's why there's a cheaper, basic options like the F-models to keep the sales balanced. Most of the companies and goverments send their (spy) sattelites into space with the cheap russian modules anyway, it just works this way as well, just like any bike with the two wheels nomatter how pricy it is. :)

Well anyways, that's my theory that seems the most likely version, i'm no BMW company insider and don't know what they accually have spinning in their heads there in the bayerland. It also seems to me that the BMW Motorrad has some radical changes coming: the HP2, K1200S&R the F800s are the first birds to give a clue that the good old low-revving K & R 'real-life' engines are history.


PS: I probably will never buy a brand new BMW bike, but i know some things abot the second hand market. Two times i've been inbetween to decide whether to buy a few years old V-Strom 1000, a Triumph Tiger, a Honda Affy Twin or to pay around 500 or 700 euros more and get the later R1100GS with the ABS, telelever, paralever, heated grips, luggage etc. It was a dead easy choice and the best investment i've done so far. I've bought my two second hand BMWs from germany where they are very cheap.

Happy travels, Margus

I can understand that the technology aspect of BMWs is cool and if I was a richer man I'd definately consider one as first world trip/day trip bike. What surprises me is the preponderance of BMWs as RTW/ Adventure touring bikes. The HU meet in Derbyshire was like a GS owners club meet!
As adv-touring is very hard on bikes and Jap bikes have greater parts availability and similar, if not slightly better, reliability, you'd think the preponderance would be for Jap bikes, but it ain't.
I suppose part of it is down to motorbiking being an individualistic thing where the most practical answer is not always the right one for people. I guess the fact we owe much of the development of adv-biking to the Germans also plays a part!
Matt :)

BMW pretty much had the 2 up market to itself for a LONG time. BMW pretty much started the class. BMW has a lot of owner loyalty.

FWIW, I'd guess the new Buell Uly will RTW every bit as well as the BMW1200GS while being lighter with an easier maint schedule.

Every bike has it's little quirks. Some quirks are more expensive than others.

I can't believe what the HUBB has turned to...

Firsly, people comment the bike's reliability that they haven't even owned for a long term.

Secondly, people are speculating even about the personalities on the bikes, telling that no GS goes ever to RTW because all GS riders are alike, rich, stupid and never go beyond their own country??? And only the poor and young people go to the RTW etc??? WTF? Are we here to generalise the motorcycle travelling world and can we describe it throughoutly with the few words only?

Jelousy? In need of the ego boost by lowering others? There's serious lack of the tolerance in the world!!!

Go to RTW yourself if you think you got guts for it and you are much better than anyone else (especially than any GS rider i forgot to mention) as it seemed to me you wanted to make it clear. Buy a pack of condoms, a second hand XT and go, noone tries to stop you here!

LIVE and LET LIVE!

Yeah you're right i'm geting defensive, imagine if all others start stating facts about Suzuki owners then in this thread, how much epic journeys they really take and how far off they go from their home street etc., generalising in the "mostly" words? :)

This is getting out of bounds of this thread, that's my point.

So back to original thread in the way it should be - let the people who have owned or own GSes post their experiences about the speciefic bike, not some off-topic "bollocks" about gossips, what someone did back in the 70s, how many rallyes has he been etc :eek3:

You've got a fair point about the free speech vs the irony. If you ask from former soviet, then we ironize here, alot. But i think this is not the right place for the irony, it's maybe a nice thing to do over the "beer-table" forum, like the ADVrider.com for example, but not in a specialized forum like this where the information going around should be more "sorted" (for me it's the main reason that separates HUBB from all other biking forums) rather than a sarcastic viewpoint of the world that makes the "apples and oranges" look the same, or what you think(?) Another idea is to do a "Virtual Pub" forum section here where we can let our steam out, whether it's a ranting or a simple bollocks with irony and sarcasm.

Anyways, i'll stop bolloxing now, let's try to get back to the original thread please :)

Margus is right.
 

he has a point, this is no ADVrider.com

please keep it calm and let people know how great this forum is, without all the silliness. We all come here to get information and not jugment. every opinion is important. There are better places for that kind of humor, if indeed that was considerable humor.

Thank you.

Let me ask you this: How many of the GS riders at the HU rally had actually
done RTW rides? :detective: I don't know about the UK but in the US most GS guys rarely go more than a few hundred miles from home. You can go to a typical BMW rally and out of 500 riders you have maybe a dozen who've
left the country.

that's cos you need a PASSPORT:confused1:........loz

ps,if you LIKE the bike gs,xt,vs whatever get it,everything has it's problems

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...hlight=steptoe

have a look at this..........loz

A good post !
Anyone reading that thread could make up their own mind apropos BMW final drive life expectations and determine for themselves whether this is acceptable for a very expensive bike .
My Summary :
Chain and sprockets have a very predictable wear pattern and can be observed easily .Cost and life expectancy is dependant upon the quality of the chain purchased .
The BMW final drives [and here I am referring to seals and/or bearings ] seem to last between 15,000 and 45,000 miles and can have a much shorter life if the bike is heavily laden .
It seems that if you rely on the dealer they will replace the whole unit and if out of warranty it will cost you megabucks .If you have the ability to repair and shim it yourself ,then the experience is not so bad .
According to my own searches the 1150 bearing is the same as fitted to the R100 ,I haven't been able to find a part number for the R1200 to see if BMW has changed anything .
A bearing is available from SKF that may be more reliable.If anyone has fitted this type it would be good to get some feedback.

Good post.

Are you dealer dependent? If not, you have more options by just carrying along a spare. If so, you can be truly screwed time and money-wise....and open for some disappointments.

My 1st bearing went to about 84k miles, 2nd to about 60k, 3rd electively changed at just over 10k because of not being able to properly clean the housing/innards from the previous change.

There's no proven method for predicting rear bearing and seal life. 12k miles? 100k miles? Even dumping the fluid every 6k oil change doesn't do it. Tea leaves are hard to read...

If it were just the rear bearing and seal, that can be dealt with by common sense and some mechanical knowledge. If you've bought into the advertising and kool-aid thinking that this 'is' the tool for the job, prepare yourself for some interesting possibilities.

There are major differences between model years and anyone looking to do their 'dream trip' should be aware of this.

As has been posted before, no machine is flawless. How you use the machine and over what time will reveal many things. Want flawless with fewer problems? Go buy into a tour thingy....and tell your friends about it...and you.

Problems of different levels.....

You can have a talk with your chain and sprockets each day. How's it hanging dude?
Not too good.
OK, I can make a plan.

You can't have the same conversation with the BMW driveline.
Hey, dude, how's it hanging?
...'nothing'...empty barrel....
Cool, we're going further.

Ride anything, but do know the potential problems and how to deal with them.....ahead of time.

The 1200 has more problem issues than just the driveline.

Ride what you like, be prepared, have a blast.....

With my GS 1100 I have done the entire Mediterranean round trip, the all Middle East (Iran included), the all Caucasus and Central Asia, not to mention the entire Europe and the Balkans. All this in two up, fully loaded and on very bad roads.

I never had any single mininal problem, except the breaking of the cable of the speedometer and the breaking of the rear rack in Armenia due to huges potholes and heavy baggages.

I know a single case (mine) is not enough for a reliable statistic, but I know several serious long distance travellers and among most of them BMW has the name of the most reliable, d confortable and suitable bike for adventures (except, of course, very bad off road tracks).

Before this GS 1100, I had travelled intensively with a classic R 80 GS and I had much more problems, especially with the electric stuff and with leak of oil.

A last notice: I know nothing about mechanic, I've just always had the regular manteinance program by official BMW garages.

Re: FD bearing - I still try to kill mine. Previous had 60Ks, current 47K, absolutely no problems so far, not even a slack on the rear wheel that should give a clue that it will go soon. I do about half on gravel road, lot of two up and full of luggage at the same time.

I think deep down the longetivity depends much on the spacing shims - the bearing needs to be balanced right. That's why some blokes only got 5Ks out of the bearing while i know people doing over 200Kkms per bearing (yes!). If the forces apply asymmetrically (not correctly balanced), then the bearing will start to eat the sidewall of the groove, simple as that. So balance it right!

Also it depends on the use of the motorcycle. Heavy potholed roads and tracks kill it on GSes sooner than some tar purpose machines like BMW RT etc having the same system but sticking it on the smooth tarmac only. It's a non suspensioned mass afterall. So on a GS for sure i consider the bearing as a consumable part, maybe with some RT you could say "it last forever" in some terms, because there aren't much people doing more than few 100Ks with the bike. But as sayed before - everything that moves, acctually wears, you never can say "forever", it's a myth. The same principe goes to wheel bearings on any bikes, shaft, chain or belt driven - people tend to overestimate their longetivity and it's not rare to read travel stories having a blown wheel bearing(s) on the third-world potholed road. Also the steering and swingarm bearings are partly affected by poor road conditions, vibrations, shocks, dirt, dust etc. They're all moving parts. But people still tend to live in the myth that any bearing lasts 'forever'...



Re third world travel FD kit: on the most cases R1100GS you need to carry the main bearing, some different size spacing shims and the main seal. The so called "GSers spare extra-compact 'chain set' " looks the following:

http://homepage.mac.com/nemos/.Pictu...d/DSCN0979.jpg

The maker of the bearing is the well known FAG, but as it was discussed in the UKGSer forums, guys say it's not possible to buy it direcly from the FAG dealer because it's specifically designed for the BMW and it's not standard spec bearing, while some say it is possible, but it'll be more expensive than to buy from a BMW parts dealer.

The FAG markings on the bearing are these if it makes sense to anyone having knowledge of FAG specs:

http://homepage.mac.com/nemos/.Pictu...d/DSCN0980.jpg


Here i'll illustrate how small the set accually is to carry with you, bearing which is the largest part of the set, the seal is accually the size of the inner diametre of it:

http://homepage.mac.com/nemos/.Pictu...d/DSCN0981.jpg

BMW part numbers and price i payed for these:
33121242210 Bearing 54$
33127663482 Seal 23$
33122310547 Shim thinner 1.6$ per piece
33121450082 Shim thicker 2$

Don't know if those specs apply for the R1150 or for the earlier R80 and R100 airheads. Also note that there are alot of different shim sizes for balancing it, i just ordered 5 shims on above average smaller size, 1 a bit thicker just in case the gap will be too big to fill with smaller shims that will be for more precise work.

Also note that you don't directly need the seal. Having read some cases if it's blown that the seal was OK, but also the cases where it went together with the seal and also cases having just a leaky seal, the bearing was OK, so it's better to have it for sure.

Skf
 

Maybe this is the bearing that is supposed to be better
The Explorer bearing marked with an asterisk ;
http://www.skf.com/portal/skf/home/p...newlink=1_1_6a

FWIW I'm leaving on a R1200GS to do London -> Nepal in two weeks.

I chose the R1200GS despite the reliability question marks because although people who have had problems are (quite understandably) very upset that such an expensive machine has had some pretty basic things go wrong, it's an extremely popular bike and nobody (except maybe BMW) really knows if the failure rate is any better or worse than any other bike. You can find countless horror stories from individual owners of pretty much any make of bike.

The R1200GS is relatively light, extremely comfortable, quite powerful, astonishingly capable offroad (at least as capable as I am), nimble in traffic and fantastic for motorways.

But this is the clincher - I absolutely love riding it.

steve

Very well sayed Steve. Lot of people complain and you mostly hear them only complaining, you DO NOT hear from the people who have lot of trouble free miles with their bikes, they just don't come to hype their bikes into internet forums. And from my experiences i must say BMW users tend to be more pretentious on even the smallest details than a average jap bike user looking around in the net. In the ADVrider they "cassify" themselves as a "Pretentious Beemer Fukwits", quite well describes them acctually, in some points of view.

It's the bad news that makes the news, as we all know.

So ride the bike you like in the reality, not the virtual web bollocks!





Re: since this thread is specifically about the BMW reliability, then check the interesting survey and statistics about 10,000 bike owners:


English motorcycle magazine, Ride, has published their survey results amongst 10,000 motorcyclists in the United Kingdom in this month's publication.

The motorcyclists were asked how reliable their motorcycle is. Results:

1. BMW (90%)
2. Honda (89.2%)
3. Yamaha (85.5%)
4. Triumph (84%)
5. Suzuki (83.2%)
6. Kawasaki (82.8%)
7. MZ (81.3%)
8. Harley-Davidson (80.1%)
9. Aprilia (77.1%)
10. KTM (74%)
11. Buell (72.2%)
12. Cagiva (70.5%)
13. Ducati (69.1%)
14. Moto Guzzi (68.8%)
15. CCM (63.8%)

The question was asked here: how many of the these bikes really go RTW?



Chris Scott did statistics some time ago:
"I’ve been doing some analysis of the World Trip Reports sent in by Adv riders from all over to my AM Website over the last 7 years or so. Guess what the most popular bike is? Wrong! but while you’re working it out you may like to know the popularity by brand in the Trip Reports (that is not so surprising):

BMW 26.2%
Honda 25.6%
Yamaha 17.4%
Suzuki 8 %
Kawasaki 8.4%
KTM 4%
Others 10.6%

Among the BMs the ranking is:
100GS (including GSPDs) -23
1150 (incl Advs) -22
650 Funduro carbs -19
1100GS - 18
80 GS (not incl.G/S) 14
EFI 650s 11

By far the most popular Honda:
Africa Twin (32) of course
Transalp (18)
Dommies (14)
Wings and XR650Ls (6)

Yamahas, no surprise here:
XT600E (some Tenerised?) 18
Teneres 17
XT500s 14
XT660 6
"


Original thread here: http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...stats-you-4972

It's just a statistics, but it gives you some idea of the most common RTW going bikes.

well said mate.......loz

I guess it's what you're comfortable with. I like my beemer because it's air cooled and has carburetters. It's all fixable. With the supplied tool kit I can do almost anything. A few extras, and I can do everything. It seems pretty tough and there's a wealth of info out there as well as aftermarket parts. Heavy? My God, you've no idea. It's cool, though.

2 cents worth
 

Everyone has covered this subject very well.

My 2 cents worth: 1 cylinder = 1 person. 2 cylinders = 2 people.
You have to be able to fix it with the tools U carry.

So after 40+years of mostly offroad riding/racing in diff countries I have an R100gspd which is being built/re-conditioned to take 2 round the world.

Good point Tim ,but yours is an older bike .Lower technology and fixable on the road by yourself. That's my approach as well .
Many people want to buy reliability because they have no mechanical knowledge or simply don't want to acquire any knowledge. IMHO that's fine but only for N America and Europe .
Reading between the lines of many, many posts ,the guys who get good reliability from the later big beemers are also competant mechanics who care for their bikes and "listen" to the mechanical rumblings and are alert to possible future problems .Which BTW is a good thing to do for ANY bike .

If I had a modern bike ,I would have to enroll myself on a short mechanics course so that I would understand and be able to monitor and control the gizmology that runs the bike .

Buying a new bike and expecting "out of the box" reliability is a bit of a lottery ,some bikes give you better odds than others and I guess that is what this discussion is all about .

There is no absolute correct answer ,a person will buy what he feels is best and "perceived" qualities are just as important as "actual" qualities , ---unfortunately .

Indeed, Dodger, as you say some bikes are better than others. If I was going RTW (or anywhere else), next bike I think I'd go backwards and get even lower tech such as an 80 GS or original Tenere. Some go as far as an Enfield. Either way, I'd be sure I could maintain it probably by rebuiding most of it before I went. If you wanted a little 250 I'd pick a Honda. Any bike is going to break so you'd better be prepared for it by collecting info and some spares. If you want dealers, BMW aren't going to be that prolific. But then, riding a Harley in Africa is going to be difficult too. I think there are some older bikes which have proved their better reliability over the years but in the end just pick something sensible which suits your skills.

Off Topic I know, But....

Loz, are you the guy I bumped into (not literally!) at Dunkirk on the ferry, I was heading back from the Stella, on a black 650 Alp?

Phil

if the guy you met was young slim and goodlooking and had a full head of hair then it WAS.............not me
if you met a fat bald fecker on a ratty black 1150,how you doing mate?....loz

1200 FDs
 

It appears the problem with the 1200 GS bikes is the splined flange mounting system of the rear wheel .
I enclose some literature about the BMW fix for this problem .

© 2004, BMW of North America, LLC
BMWMotorrad
USA
Service Information Bulletin
Subject: Bearing play at the rear wheel drive
Model:
Details:
Aftersales
Solution:
Dealer Operation/
General Manager
Sales-
Motorcycles
Sales -
Used Motorcycles
Business Manager
(F&I)
Service Parts & Accessories Administration
Date: February 2005
Bulletin #33 001 05 (011)
Source: 33 74/2004
BMW Motorrad USA Service and Technical
Contact: Respective Aftersales Business Consultant
R 1200 GS
1: In the rear drive of the R 1200 GS the ring gear is supported by two types of bearings:
one floating bearing and one fixed bearing without preload. Inherent in this design
is a small amount of bearing play at the rear wheel. With all components manufactured
and assembled to stated tolerances it is possible that play in these bearings can be felt
and measured at the rear wheel. This type of bearing play has no effect on motorcycle
handling or on the durability of the bearings.
2: There is a possibility of play developing between the splined wheel flange (P/N 33 17
7 668 659) and the axle tube of some motorcycles manufactured prior to 08/2004, US
VIN# ZL 76187.
1: In the event of a customer complaint, an inspection and measurement of rear wheel
bearing play is to be performed as described below. With cold components the total
play (back and forth travel) allowable at the wheel rim edge is 1mm(maximum). Refer to
the R 1200 GS Repair Manual CD for measuring procedures as well as temperature definition
of "cold components". Replace the entire rear-wheel drive assembly if the play
exceeds specifications.
2: If the complaint is "bearing play at the rear wheel" you must first check that the
splined flange is secure before performing the measurement noted in point #1. When
rocking the rear wheel back and forth, you must first make sure there is no movement
between the wheel flange, the rear wheel and the axle tube.
If play is noticeable between these components you must replace the entire rear wheel
drive assembly (complete with flange). Replacing the splined wheel flange only will not
solve the situation, because in all probability the splines on the axle tube will have suffered
some degree of wear as well. If you are in doubt, you are requested to contact your
respective Aftersales Business Consultant.
Warranty: Covered under the terms of the New Motorcycle Limited Warranty.
Important Note: Screw 1 is a drain
plug for repair-related oil changes; it is
not for checking the oil level. When filling
the rear drive assembly with oil,
pour in the defined quantity (0.25 l for
initial fill, or 0.23 l for oil changes)
through the bore for the ABS sensor.
We highly recommend using BMW
Super Synthetic Gear oil. 75W 90, P/N
07 51 0 394 082

I read this info on the ADVrider site and have included it for anyone that might be interested .Anecdotal evidence suggests that bikes leaving the factory can have as much as 1/4 inch of play at the wheel rim .

It seems that BMW have tried to fix the FD problem by adopting a splined flange mounting for the rear wheel but build quality was not of a sufficiently high standard .The result is that an initial sloppy fit or poor quality materials induces even more wear as the bike racks up the mileage .
It might be advantageous for owners of bikes made prior to 8/04 to check their rear ends and have them replaced under warranty .