F650GS twin versus F800GS Adventure - upgrade from V-Strom DL650
 

Hi all,
I'm writing this as a sanity check, before I take the plunge (yet again). So, the current status:
- I have a heavily farckled V-Strom DL650 2010, ABS, on which I did over 50K miles, mostly pavement
- recently I have started to look for the dirt roads, fire trails, kind of easy stuff but not always
- last year trip took me through the 'Stans and Mongolia (20K miles in 1 tour)
- next trip will be yet again in South-East Asia (later years South America, than hopefully Africa), mostly paved roads but I expect more and more dirt riding as well (washboards, corrugations, washed dirt roads, probably muddy roads as well, deep gravel, river crossings, etc.) but not single trails or too technical stuff (if it can be avoided)
- riding solo, with lots of luggage (~50Kg in total), rider's weight around 80Kg
- riding partner has a F700GS
- I'm based in Europe
- I have test ridden both F700GS and F800GS (2014) (shortly and only on-pavement) and I liked better the feeling of the F800GS
- most important aspects are: reliability and ruggedness for the long haul
- I don't like singles

Reasons to change the V-Strom:
- bike is getting close to 65K miles, getting harder to sell (and I want a change)
- I want a lighter bike, lower CoG, more trust inspiring on rough sections
- I want a bit more torque/power
- I want some more ground clearance

I'm looking specifically at the F650GS SE from 2012 (with ABS) and 800GSA from around 2014. Both, of course, second had, ideally no more than 20K miles.

So far, I prefer the F650GS for the following reasons:
- lighter
- lower compression, so I can use lower octane gas
- tubeless
- cheaper
- lower seat height (~30" inseam)
- regular forks, more reliable for bad, dusty roads (and easier to service)
- I can install Ricor Intiminators (which I have on the V-Strom and love them)

So far I prefer the F800GSA for the following reasons:
- higher ground clearance
- almost a complete adventure bike, not too many upgrades required
- better suited for off-road sections
- more comfortable
- better range due to the larger tank

Overall my take is that the F650GS will be, in the end, roughly 15Kg lighter and 2.000USD cheaper than the F800GSA (carrying the same amount of fuel and farkles). And I'll probably miss the higher ground clearance the most.

For both of the mentioned bikes the suspension will be changed, at least all the springs, hopefully the entire shock will be upgraded. To be honest, I think a more suited bike will be Yamaha T700, but it's not yet available and I don't like the idea to beta-test a bike. That's the plan for the next bike :D.

So, any suggestions? Are my assumptions wrong? Do you have any better options?
Thanks a lot for your help.

I have a similar inseam as you. Twice I was faced with the decision between a F650GS twin and a F800GS (non-Adventure). Both times I bought the 650GS twin.

http://www.morocco-knowledgebase.net/tim/650gs-sand.jpg
Crossing Lak Iriki solo in winter time, but still 30ºC. Luggage offloaded, about to get bike free (again).

I hate punctures in tubed tyres and mainly ride solo, so tubeless is a massive plus for me (and one of the reasons I have just bought a KTM 790 Adventure). I wasn't concerned about the strength of the alloy wheels as I wasn't doing crazy stuff. I did a lot of off-tarmac riding mainly in Morocco with the bikes. It would have been good to have the narrower taller 21-in front wheel, but I had TKC80s which performed well.

http://www.morocco-knowledgebase.net...50gs-lumps.jpg
Not really technical, just a bit unnerving!

The 24-litre tank in the 850GSA would obviously be useful against the 16 litres in the 650GS but seeing as your riding companion will be limited to the same 16 litres in the F700GS that won't help you much.

The other bike to look at is the XT660Z Tenere which is better out of the box for what you are looking at, but as with the F800GSA it lacks the tubeless tyres.

Congrats, I love the specs on that bike. But way too expensive for me right now - and I still have some reliability issues to look for. If it proves OK, maybe somewhere after 3-4 years, the title would be: Yamaha T700 vs KTM 790A (R?) :))

I will use K60 Scouts or Mitas E07, but yeah, 21" front does look tempting. Mandatory though? I still don't know.

For regular riding 16L is more than enough. For more remote stretches, we can share the extra gas in the GSA tank. Anyway we will have extra gas with us, a couple of Rotopaxes at least.

It's also very top-heavy - and single, less power, etc.

I did, looks amazing, but not that well suited for off-pavement riding (too low ground clearance). Plus it's quite heavy. The shaft it's a big plus though, indeed :).

These are all good, practical reasons for imo, a much under-rated machine.
When it came out I borrowed a 650GS SE with K60s for month in Morocco and road and trail, really liked it apart from the truly terrible saddle. More here.
The tank was good for 250 miles which is fine by me, and so was the 19er front which is matched to the bike's actual off-road ability, primarily held back by its weight. Stock suspension was surprisingly good (your all-up weight is the same as me). Because of that, ground clearance was never an issue and will I think be better than a V-Strom anyway.
Last year I also rode an old 700GS for a week and even on road tyres, I was reminded what a great motor and suspension you get as stock, especially the fork. You really appreciate the low centre of gravity (under-seat tank) – opposite of the XT660Z.

I've ridden 800s but for real-world travelling, as you're planning, would take the tubeless tyres and $2000 in change for 650/700 every time.

Hi Chris. I've read your F650GS SE review many times (and it's at the base of my most probable choice ;). Also the book.
2 questions please:
- why not F800GS
- F650GS or F700GS
Thanks a lot.

Not 800GS because:
Why pay more?
Don't want taller saddle
Don't need more power
Definitely don't want inner tubes
Prefer the lower-rpm torque and economy of the 650

(You can retune an 800 to a '650/700', as a mate did - much nicer motor; you can also reset both for 91 octane - may be useful on the road)

650/700 differences easily Googled and not deal breaking, imo.
Primarily '700' was to stop confusion with the 650GS single.
So I suppose get the best one in your area for the money, bearing in mind that the 700s will be newer and maybe easier to sell later.
They seem to hold their value annoyngly well.

Thanks a lot Chris for your input. I have yet to check:
- ground clearance on F650/700GS versus V-Strom. I hope to have at least 2-3cm more usable clearance (after sag, not on paper)
- sit/ride a F800GSA to see how I can handle the extra height and weight

The F650GS can be reset for 91 octane? I know F800GS can, but not too sure about 650/700 twin.
Research continues :).

https://www.ukgser.com/forums/showth...=1#post1476961

On the thread linked in above (which I wrote eleven years ago) you will read that the F650GS twin is already able to accept 91 RON (87 PON in North America). It's the F800GS which normally needs the higher octane 95 RON, but can be remapped to accept 91 RON, albeit with some performance loss.

And it seems the F650/800GS tank actually holds around 17.5 litres, see https://www.ukgser.com/forums/showth...=1#post1494753

Every little bit helps, that's another 40 km in range!

personally I would take F650GS, lighter, simpler and looks great :)

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/c4/57/bc/c...096076618c.jpg

Thanks all for your suggestions. Really helpful :). I still have to make sure about some details (like real life ground clearance) - and so sell my current bike :D.
@Tremes - I'm looking for F7650GS twin, not the old/er single (which I had before the current V-Strom). Although a very nice bike, it is quite old already. As I'm not a good mechanical type, I have to rely on the bike to take care of itself and behave :D.

I went through the exact same decision process when shopping for a bike for our Africa trip: F650/700GS or F800GS.

In the end, I went with a F700GS, for all of the reasons you listed. We did a lot of gnarly roads, and not once did I bottom out on the F700GS. My wife had a factory-lowered F650GS and she also did not hit the bashplate. Unless you are going bouldering, ground clearance is not an issue with these bikes.

Just an example of the kinds of roads we were doing:

http://i68.tinypic.com/2cielts.jpg

This is the Sani Pass on the way to Lesotho. A lot of the 4x4s were tip-toeing through the rocky sections. Our bikes handled it just fine.

You will do even better with the aftermarket Ricor suspension. I was a bit disappointed with the stock suspension on the 700GS. The rebound left much to be desired as the wheels spent more time in the air than on the ground when riding in the rocks.

I haven't ridden the 800GS off-road, but I suspect the beefier suspension might provide better rebound damping. With after-market suspension, you won't have this problem at all.

@lightcycle - That looks just like the "as bad as it gets" that I have in mind. Actually Lesotho is on my radar, sometime during the next years. So did the F650GS was just fine on that road? Have you carried heavy luggage? Nice to hear :).
Indeed the suspension might need some work, especially with luggage. As mentioned I have planned to heavier springs (forks and shock) and the Ricor intiminators. Not sure if I really have to change the shock though - that's some extra money I'd hope I can save...

Panniers, topcase, drybag and a 5L jerry can.

This was our setup:

https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Mis...DSCN9925-L.jpg

Sani Pass was tough. But it was rider skill that was the limiting factor, the bikes were more than well-suited for the task. :)

Here's my wife at the top. All smiles!

https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Goo.../lesotho-L.jpg

Thanks a lot Gene. I do have some more learning to do, but definitely Lesotho is on my radar. From you picture it doesn't look "that" bad though - so it's worth a try.
What tires have you used? Looks like Mitas E-07, but I'm not too sure.
PS - Looking for updates on your travel blog. Kind of neglected lately ;).

Haha! That's not the Sani Pass. That's the path between the pub and the cabins at the top!

The Sani Pass is a steep, loose rock and rubble road. The gradient is 1:4 and there are several switchbacks at that pitch.

Good eyes. They are E-07s. We rode on Heidenau K60s for a long time, but after trying the Mitas, we're converts now.

:) Yeah, the blog was up-to-date when we left in 2012. But as time went on, it kept falling more and more behind... Tough to write and travel at the same time.

Seven years later, it's about a year and a half behind. Oh well. It'll get caught up when we finish our trip!

I would say to take your time :)). I had run both Mitas E-07 (only rear) and K60 Scouts, but I liked the K60 Scouts better, at least on pavement. But that's another story.
Again, thanks for sharing. What are you riding now?

I'm currently between bikes. Although, I am eyeing something much lighter. Either a CRF450L or a 500 EXC-F.

PS - I have found this rear shock: https://www.wunderlich.de/shop/en/wu...u/640-0874-00/ that provides an extra raise of 2cm, which sounds just about perfect. Can be coupled with progressive springs: https://www.wunderlich.de/shop/en/wu...u/600-0170-03/ and the Intiminators for a pretty good setup for RTW requirements: rough, not necessarily technical conditions, reasonable to slow speeds. Not yet clear how can I match the 2cm raise on the back to the front, as I'd like to keep the same frame geometry. Still some research to do...

Hi Vulupe,
late Autumn last year I bought a 10 year old F650GS twin and sold my trusty old 2V-Beemer because of the weight issue. Same as you I voted for the 650 instead of the 800GS, since I'm retired, have to keep my dough together and still enjoy travelling.
I rode the 800GS in South Africa for a few days and was very impressed by the good suspension, together with Mitas E07. But the price put me off, so I searched for a 650GS with low mileage. The first ride convinced me: Low weight (lighter than the 800GS) and the easy handling - like a mountain bike ;o)
So for early Spring I planned a off-road tour from north Portugal through the mountains down to the Algarve. The bike performed better than I expected. I travelled with luggage, still it handled well. The main draw-back is the low ground clearance. My bash plate was quite battered after the trip ;o)


Of course you can't really compare the suspension with the 800GS - it is too soft. So the next investment will be in progressive fork springs and later some time in a quality rear shock. The 19" front wheel wasn't really a problem. Just think of the big 1200cc beemers - they also stick to the 19" wheel. What Chris writes is important for me too: tubeless tyes make life much easier. And yes, the engine works with 91 octane, but 95 octane is better, and it does more kms to the gallone.


Finally - the Sani Pass will be no problem for the 650GS. I did it an the old 2V-GS and on a 1150GS. And compared to the pistes I did in Portugal the Sani Pass isn't more difficult.
Hope this helps.

This weekend I had the opportunity to test-drive both F700GS and F800GS, both make year 2014. Same seat (standard), the F700GS had stock suspension and bar risers (but setup to bring the bar closer to the rider, not higher) and the F800GS has Hyper-Pro springs lowered with 30mm.
Yet it is still a very hard choice: overall I liked the F800GS better for my size (as mentioned, it was lowered, but I have ridden it before lowering and I can cope with the standard height and comfort seat).
The F700GS felt... too small. Hard to pinpoint the difference but literally the F700GS felt like a too small bike: too low (I was flat-footing it easily), too short (seat to peg distance as well as seat to bars), too exposed to wind and the suspension way too soft (the fork dive is really nasty). Most of these probably can be fixed: longer shock,, heavier springs, intimininators, bar riser, peg lowering, some adjustable and bigger screen. On the twisties though the bike was a blast, soooo easy to play around the bends. Also I could feel the power differences: it felt closer to the V-Strom (better torque at lower RPMs) than to F800GS. The F800's power was just great, not too much, no too little.
That being said, I'm still undecided if the F800 is really worth the extra 2.000Euros and the extra headaches (for me): USD fork, lower mileage, higher octane gas, tubes, etc. It is really weird to see how different these 2 bikes are, having so much in common actually.

G650gs owner here
 

Ok, I get you don't want t thumper. I was debating between a 2006 r1200gs with 30 000km or a 2013 G650GS with 13 000km as my first bike, same pricepoint.

Got the 650, simply because of the age difference, lower milleage.

I thought I would regret it.

Well I work in Northern Quebec. The roads leading here are vast, often without cops, and I can do tarmac and offroad as much as I want.

At 6 feet, 270 pounds, I'm not light. Neither are my luggages when I am fully loaded with my Touratech, which I need as I come up for 4 weeks stretch of work.

Basically, I can easily climb up to 160km/h have enough torque to overtake when needed, and it handles gravel, mud, sand and tarmac with a smile.


Having the ability to put low octane fuel without an issue is a major plus!

So seriously, I'd go with the twin 650.

Oh and I rode 3 months in north west and south west Mongolia with all my gear, which included camping gear, food, repair tools, and climbing gear from previous destinatiosn such as Pakistan, extra 10l of fuel , extra 10l of water, on a Shineray Mustang 200cc chinese made Mongolian bike last year....going back on the exact same bike in September this year. It handled everything, litterally. That led me to believe that bigger and more expensive, doesn't mean much...I did things and went places those r1200GSA didn't dare venture...I mean I love those big bikes, they look great, handle great, but really....overkill.

Oh and fuel milleage on the 650GS.....SWEET ...

ANyhow, happy choosing...1st world problems, kind of a blessing ....really !

Fundamentally they are very similar bikes for the reasons you have already stated.

Just go for the one that fits your properly. If you're on tip toes on the 800GS then it's an easy selection.

I had a 650. I think they ride better than the 800's which I've ridden hundreds of.

More torque and easier to throw around.

The 800 is obviously the better choice if you're going off piste !!

Yet at the same time so different. I wouldn't have believed it would be such a hard choice.
Thanks again for your replies - I see that this choice problem is quite common :).

Whichever one you choose make sure it’s got the updated stator. It must be the newer BMW one not the older version with a rewind. If it hasn’t you must budget it in to the price of the bike. They all fail if riding in high temperatures so the mileage can differ when they go.
Be wary of a lowered 800, my wife had one and we both felt that there was something not quite right with it. Even though she did 30K miles in 3 1/2 years she never gelled with it. Certainly she much prefers her 1200gc LC on but more so off road.
Good luck with choosing and enjoy your trip bier

I just made this decision for myself - I ended up with a F800GS (not the Adventure model)

From hours of research I concluded that you could easily make the standard GS a better bike (protection, xtra gas, etc.) for about the same money as a GSA. Plus it's lighter and has more load carrying capacity than the GSA.

I opted for a 2013+ model - they had the updated rotor (greatly reduces the risk of burning out a stator/rectifier)


I had a 2009 G650GS and that didn't end well. I thought about a ~2007 F650GS (single) but the aftermarket accessories market is starting to get thin compared to the F800.