Does the body adapt ? ergonomics.
 

Long time member of HUBB , touring rider and attendee of travelers meetings. I have been primarily a touring rider for 20+ years and have several bikes and many thousands of miles under my belt. In spite of this I am still going ask this dumb question.

It arises out of an injury which is causing me some trouble and a serious need to find the smoothest bike I can. Not a big full dresser guy , like to travel light and ride long. I have been riding my dl1000 since 2009 and am finding the vibration and position aggravates a shoulder injury. I am something of an old guy and NOT small. Recently road a Honda product with sport Ergos and felt the bike was responsive and very smooth. Trouble is the leg position was cramped and has no ability to drop the pegs sufficiently.

So the question is, does the body (legs) adjust to the cramped position quickly or does it become more aggravating over time. or point to a helpful thread.

Maybe there is a sport touring bike out there for me ?

I can't offer any general wisdom on the topic, but I can describe what I've noticed personally.

Leg position definitely affects my aging knees. In the short-term, this means I have to be careful dismounting after a ride so that my knees don't collapse, taking me down with them. Long-term, my knees definitely deteriorate when I'm riding a lot (i.e., long trips on which I'm riding most days for weeks and months on end). Dropping the pedals on my DL650 helped noticeably, as did raising the seat. My KLR is definitely easier on the knees than the DL, but it's hard to see how a similar leg position could be accomplished on a shorter bike. Neither is particularly healthy for long trips any more.

You didn't ask about back issues, but I personally can't tolerate bikes which lack an upright riding position. That's a given.

My shoulders, elbows and wrists behave better when I raise handlebars a bit and (more importantly) bring them back towards me. This can be done with risers and/or the handlebars themselves, and it's taken some messing around to find the best combination on each bike. In particular, I struggle to find a shoulder position which doesn't aggravate various injuries but which provides good control of steering, throttle, brakes and switches. Riding for long periods can definitely do some damage if I'm not careful--and I have a history of not being careful, which is how my body became such a mess in the first place.

Executive summary: Hoping that your body will "adjust" to a certain position is probably a poor idea. You might learn to tune out the pain, but in so doing you're likely to cause trouble and/or exacerbate existing issues. On the other hand, I'm no expert.

Hope that's helpful.

Mark

This site is very useful for looking at relative ergo positions.

http://cycle-ergo.com/

Good luck!


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The body (and your mind) can adjust to uncomfortable ergos ... but not ideal, IMO and if you can pinpoint what's causing the "hurt" you may be able to improve things. TIP: as we get old, old joints and old injuries don't make things any easier! :helpsmilie:

BUT ... You can do quite a few things to affect the "rider Triangle" which may give some relief riding long days.

I owned a DL1000 5 years and 90K MILES. It fit me well, no problems.
But i'm a little guy.

You could try various other bikes and you might get lucky.
BMW R1200 GS is a very comfortable bike for LARGE riders. More money but just a wonderfully comfortable bike, IMO.

But fact is, just about any bike you choose may have to be modified to fit YOU.

If you are a very LARGE guy ... can we assume you may be a few KG's over weight? (I am). Losing weight will have a miracle like affect on comfort riding long distance. Good news for me, I always lose weight when touring. :clap:

NEXT: Stretching. Huge positive affect for me. Not two minutes, but 15 minutes or real work stretching. It can help! And MID day stretching at fuel stops works miracles too! :D

AND: Take Anti-inflamatory drugs if your Doc agrees. Life saver for me ... but you should NOT take these ALL the time.

A few Ergo ideas to try on your V-Strom:
BARS
Don't be afraid to change your handlebars. Higher rise, different bend or sweep. Maybe add adjustable bar risers as suggested above. Get the reach to the bars right ... for YOU. Adjust the risers and bar position as much as you can to try various positions. :thumbup1: All this takes TIME and Kms to know when and if you got it right ...or better.

SEAT
Try a different seat. The Russell Day LONG saddle has done a lot for older, heavy set riders with joint, back, knee pain. But several other options out there too. Get the seat as TALL as you can where you can still touch down to ground and control bike. (this will help with stiff knees)

PEGS
I believe there is a Peg Lowering kit for your V-Strom? Look into it. This step, along with a taller seat can really change things overall in terms of how you are set on the bike.

For me, I prefer a very slight forward lean rather than sitting Bolt Upright. The slight lean eases wind pressure and ... for me ... is a bit more comfortable on my back and butt riding a 10 hour day. As always, YMMV.

BUT MUCH OF THIS IS VERY SUBJECTIVE.
So, you have to get out there and try different stuff. I personally believe the Vstrom can be made to work for you ... but I could be wrong. And new bikes are always fun to get! So, lots of good options for you! Don't give up!

For sure ... ride the BMW R1200 GS. Once you get used to it ... it could work out well for you.

Good luck, let us know how you get on. bier

Thanks Mollydog, Temporaryescapee and Markharf for the replies which are all very helpful. My DL is pretty well setup for me aside from maybe some bar adjustments I could do. I also choose my gloves to reduce buzz. Still on the long days the buzz gets into my shoulder. I thought perhaps a Concourse or FJ might be different but I feel confined by the leg room on those. Mollydog my last bike was the R1100GS. Great bike , but it let me down and hammered me financially. I will keep looking , maybe an older BMW K bike or something. But it sounds like if my legs are cramped I am not going to get used to it.

Yea, some of the old BMW's do that! The R1200 are a bit better and MUCH lighter, but SO expensive, I understand your reluctance. :thumbup1:

Did you know your Vstrom has same leg room (seat to peg) as a R1150GS?
I know, I measured them. The beauty of the R1200 is it's 70 lbs. lighter weight than previous R1100/R1150, but about same as your Vstrom.

I went to FJR1300 intro in Brea at Yamaha headquarters. That FJR really drew fire for no leg room. The taller guys really hated that bike. Not sure on the Concours. Never rode latest ones.

One bike I rode recently and really really liked was the Kawasaki 1000 Versys LT. Wow! A super nice bike. Smooth as glass, easy to handle, rides very light. Should be enough leg room, but maybe not as much as your Vstrom (not sure). I loved ... may buy one myself.

But that Versys is a very cool bike in many ways. FAST, smooth and good handling. A friend who also rides a R1200GS like his Versys better! and he's a picky bastard too!

Mollydog funny you say that about the GS and Vstrom comparison. I remember sitting on the Vstrom in the shop with my eyes closed and thinking how close it was to my GS. The feel was the same. I once looked at the smaller Versys and felt it was a little high. But I am going get out to all the dealers soon and will give it another go. thx

That GS - V-Strom similarity is no coincidence. The Vstrom project was developed partly by Suzuki Germany who mirrored ergonomics of the BMW GS.

Japan oversaw, but Suzuki Germany had the lead there. I attended the USA launch where this was disclosed from American Suzuki chief and lead engineer from Japan.

Early Vstrom prototypes were tested in Germany and Austria for a year before
release.

If you strip off all the bodywork off the V-Strom and take a long look, then compare it to the GSXR1000 from 2002, you will see some similarities in the chassis.

Don't let your body to adjust, it's recipe for problems sooner or later.
Get bike which is comfortable as much as possible in natural riding position
and then adopt the bike even farther to your body.
Anyway maintaining physical fitness is crucial for riding bikes.
bier

My first reaction was :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: but upon reflection you may be right.

Perhaps we should start a HUBB virtual fitness group. I remember xfiltrate posting up some details of his breaking camp fitness regime some years ago so maybe we could use that as a starting point. And that really is :rofl:

Yes, staying loose and limber is important! Stretching really helps me!

I understand your intention here but not so easy with a "new" rider. A new rider may not really know what a "natural" position is, may make mistakes moving things around (bar height and angle, seat height and shape, pegs lower, further forward or further back, risers .. how high?)

IMO, important to just RIDE THE BIKE and see what feels "right" or "wrong" ... then make careful changes as needed.

Many riders will not know a "good" bike riding position from a "bad" one. Every rider is different, hard to know what will fit everyone.

If a new rider is used to laying back on a Barka-Lounge" chair, then he may not
feel comfortable even on the perfect bike.

Even experts will need to "adapt" to a new bike, and once they do, it may turn out to be perfect for them .... or not. If not, then subtle, careful changes should be made. Some guys just follow the crowd and do a bunch of changes that may not be smart ... and may not solve comfort problem.

Not an easy thing. Many times I find it easier for me to just adapt to the bike, rather than jumping up and making a bunch of changes before really knowing the bike.