DL650 vs SV650
 

Since this is my first post, I would like to say firstly "hello" :)

I am lurking for a long time but finally I've managed to activate my account (thank you Grant ) and here I am, posting my first question on HUBB.

My situation is like this :

I have now a SV650, naked from 2008.
In 2009 I've added some panniers a top case and I've toured in Romania.
In 2010 I've added also a windshield, softer seat and some crashbars and went touring in Europe.
Now the bike has 26000 km and some of them were offroad ( but not more than 100-200 ). The rest is tarmac.

Now, for 2011 I am thinking even "bigger" dreaming of reaching Cape Town, TDF or even RTW... ( I know these thoughts might be quite a stretch for a noob like me but hey, it all starts with a dream, right?)

I am quite happy with the SV on tarmac and I would consider another bike only for "off-roadish" parts of my future rides. And by off-road I do not thinking crazy forest single tracks but just gravel, dual tracks and other surfaces without tarmac but that you could still call a road.

After lots of reading I came to the conclusion that my best alternative (if I decide to buy another bike ) would be a DL650.

But is it worth it? The engine is virtually the same. DL650 is heavier than my SV but has better wheals for off-tarmac.

What would you do in my place? Would you go with current bike, or buy another ? And if yes why?

Other things that should be taken into consideration :
- I will be traveling 2up (so far we were ok on the SV)
- I cannot buy a new DR650 or KLR650, DRZ 400 S or similar due to European legislation which forbids selling.
- I don't want to buy a SH DR650 or KLR650because it is very hard to find one which is younger than 9 years that are in good condition and with real millage.
- I don't want to sell my current bike since is still new, I like her and it is my first bike... So the eventual cost of a new bike cannot be "eased" by selling the current one.


Ok, wow, loong post. This being my first post, I guess I am overly enthusiastic :) I should buy a beer just for having the patiance to read it all.
Thank you in advance for your opinions.

Follow your heart. There are so many stories about choosing the ideal bike.Some want this some want that. In 2008 I wanted to buy DL650 but at that time there is no stock available in my country and have to wait few months. Being impatient I ended up with a KLR 650. Have no complaint. The contemporary bike most models are equally doable and reliable. Between KLR and Wee, I think the Wee is better of 2-up. My 2 cents frank opinion. BTW, welcome to the site.

there is no big differences between sv and dl. and dl is not to much off road oriented as you think. i am sure sv can handle what dl can. i am an ex-dl owner and i was more than happy with the bike and its bulletproof engine. however it was not good and easy on offroad like dr

you have also geared up your sv for long journey and also you are keen with the bike. keep sv and go with it! save money!

just my 2 cents worth

Yes, I am also inclining on SV650. If it were possible here I would buy a DR650 but unfortunately this option is not available.

But is the DL really so not so much better off-road? Hmm I would have hoped for a big improvement from a SV.

My biggest concerns with the SV are :
- tire availability and price: I have 17" 160/60 on the back and 17" 120/60 in the front. Those are on a small size when it comes to street bikes but are very fat for DP... I am not sure about availability of good long lasting and "durable" tires in general and any kind of tire with those sizes in more remote areas in particular. Also the price tends to be on the Sport side ( read higher because races have money, no? bleah... ) => I wonder, could I fit an 150/60 tire on the the back wheel ?
- sub frame durability : With 2 up and luggage and camping equipment, I am pretty sure that I am getting close to the max weight. => I should look into re-enforcing the rear sub frame

- ability to go on muddy roads: for my tire sizes ... I don't know so many type of tires in my size that are for off-tarmac. Normally they are for street and race.

I had an SV650S, and now own a DL650.

The latter is more of a travel-bike, whereas the SV is very nice for smaller, curvy roads. It never was so much fun with lots of luggage & 2-up, although I even did a couple trips abroad that way, and it could do it. But it´s just that the DL does the same much better, has more room and doesnt mind adding weight on board.

With the SV, if you go off-road you may run into problems with the wheels (I dented mine)... plus you´ll have to figure out, how to protect the engine bottom.

For 2-up travel, DL650 wins hands down IMO.

Why is the only other option you talk about the DL? If your gonne buy a other bike you might as well look a bit further. If you gonne tour Africa i would suggest you look at proven bikes like XT's, AT's, NX, KLR, DR, GS etc. Then again if you really like your SV. There are people that rode the world on all sort of bikes raging from the R1 to 90cc mopeds so you eventually gonne get to your destination what ever bike you chose.

If it were up to me I would go for a DR 650 SE in a second. But you cannot buy these things new in European Union for more than 5 years now. And because of this, also the SH ones are very very old ( 10 years at least ) and also with a lots of miles on board.

For that reason I think I cannot go that road.

When I look at the prices of new DR in US I would like to be there. Here for almost the same money I can only buy a 10 years old second one.

I did find out that in Maroco you could find new DR650 but I have no idea if I will be able to register such a bike in UE after I buy it.

@pecha72 the wheels on DL are also cast. Are they less prone to denting? Also I think the buttom of the bike needs similar protection ( oil filter, evac, engine ) Then again, I am only talking from pictures...

How was the transition from 170 kg to 200+ of the DL?
Did you do any long trip with your DL? What tires are you using? 150 or 140?

Sorry for lots of questions but you are the first guy I "know" who owned both bikes

hi again

i did from Turkey to Morocco using a k7 dl650. petcha did much more longer trip than i.

I have done the following mods:
- bash plate (must)
- hand guard
- engine guard
- hi screen (not a good idea especially when it is raining)
- 12V socket
- pannier racks

bought a couple of new tyres in France.

There are more bikes then the DR650 :P

Have a look at the yamaha XT660R and XT660Z, KTM adventure. BMW F650GS/Dakar.

Yes JJS1987, you are right, there are other bikes and I have looked at some of them. The main problem is still that we will go 2 up. And none of the bikes mentioned are good to go 2up. Also they are expensive. KTM, XT660Z I think they are out of my league.

For personal reasons I would not buy BMW. I think they are great machines but they should cost half the price they do. Or I should make 2 times more money :)

My question was in fact : should I try to spend some of my money and find a good 2005+ DL650 and then add more for kiting up or should I try to make it with the current SV650 because the differences between the bikes do not justify the money.

In any case I should try to schedule a ride with a DL... just to see how it feels.

DL´s wheels seem to get pretty good report. I dont have any scientific evidence, but I managed to smash my SV´s front so bad I had it replaced.. it was still holding air, though. But with the DL I have run at much higher speeds, with much more weight on board, into much worse potholes, etc., and they still look okay. Not sure, but my feeling is that they are in fact stronger than on an SV, because SV is a full streetbike.

Finding protection for your engine will be easier on a DL, because they are widely available. For SV you´ll maybe find some crashpads for track use, and you´ll probably have to figure out how to fit what you´ll need for overlanding. A good bashplate most certainly. It may be the same thing, if you´ll want to fit aluminium panniers, for example.

The two bikes do feel very different, and especially if the DL has its OEM tyres, it may feel clumsy to you after an SV, but you can improve its handling by changing better rubber, as well as other modifications.

We rode 2-up from Finland to Australia on a DL650 with my girlfriend almost 3 years ago, and were pretty happy with our choice of bike. About a year before that we did one trip to Europe with my SV, which had 3 hard Givi-bags and everyhing... we could manage, but needed to have breaks quite often. There just wasnt much space for 2 people.

I also think that for 2-up and very long distance, all 1-cylinder machines mentioned will have a hard time with the weight of the 2 people & all the gear on board. Especially compared to how well this v-twin still keeps pulling (and the same goes for Transalp, F650GS twin, etc).

If you sell your 2008 SV650 you would easily be able to buy a good 2nd hand xt660z or ktm 950-640 adventure over here? But sounds like you love your SV. If i were you i would just look into shock upgrades and try modifing some engine guard on there and go with your SV.

Guys, quality advice ! Thank you.

Indeed I love my SV and I wouldn't sell it. Maybe I will be looking this winter to find some good deal on a DL. In the end... I feel that I cannot go wrong with any of them.

pecha72 if this will be the case, I might bother you with other questions :)

Until then, I do hope that we will gather on this topic more differences and opinions on DL vs SV although the later is not such a popular bike for touring.

http://www.berndtesch.de/LucassenSjaak20090513kl.jpg

http://static.blogo.it/motoblog/r1fango.jpg

This dude did a rtw trip on a R1 so i guess it can be done on a SV ;)

Also found this thread on ADV about modded SV for offroad mind you its kinda extreme but fun :P
http://i12.tinypic.com/80xdoxz.jpg

SV650 ADV info thread - ADVrider

Seems to me the question is not, if an SV650 or a DL650 _COULD_ do it - they´ll probably both be able to do it, as well as R1´s, Vespas, Harleys and Goldwings have done it - but which one of these will be a better choice.

And since the original poster is planning to go 2-up, it is much more about comfort for both rider and passenger, so to me the answer is quite simple really.

Then again, it is important to be on a bike, that YOU like, that´s an area no-one else maybe able to give you advice, you´ll have to decide for yourself (but the passenger´s opinion will also be important - on a trip like this, I´d say it is decisive!)

Like I said, I think both of these could do it, and 1-up it would not matter so much.. but 2-up changes the game considerably, and shifts almost all reasonable arguments strongly towards the DL650. The SV is tiny for 2 and their luggage for an overland-trip.

Have had a DL650 since early 2008,I got as I wanted a bike that would travel well with a pillion. My Strom has now done a few trips in Europe & is great for two up touring,however the suspension could do with improving(upgrading rear & front before next trip)If you do decide on the Strom I would suggest changing the hand guards & fitting a fork brace as it makes a huge difference to the handling.
Personally I am not sure that it is worth the expense of another bike & getting her sorted when you already have one that you are used to & is sorted for travelling,yes the Strom is more of a tourer but as has been proven its not the type of bike but the will to do it that counts :scooter:

Mate I have Bandit 1250, but have a look at MCN 15th Sept a guy took his SV while everyone else took the BMWF800GS, he managed it.

I would suggest if you are only doing limited miles off Rd why bother?

Stick to what you do know and save the ££ for the trip besides you know your bike how much your bike does mph handling, mods etc.

It all starts with a dream.

I think I am over-thinking this one... I am going back and forth between buy the DL650 and the add things ( bash,luggage etc ) or just "improve" a little more the SV ( bash, rear suspension and front suspension ).

I would really like a DL but here in Europe even a SH one with ABS costs 5000 euros... and this is without any addons. So I would rather spend these money on the trip itself.

I do not want to go on hard-core offroad. But I am really afraid that I will not manage the normal gravel/non-tarmac roads that I might find "here and there" with my SV. Do you know if back wheel and front wheel are the same between SV and DL? I want to determine if I could put DL size tires on SV ( 150 back and 110 front )

the DL takes a 110/80 R19 59H on the front & a 150/70 R17 69H on the rear.
hope that helps

Yeap, I also knew the same thing about DL. And "on the paper" SV needs 120 in front and 160 in the back. But the question is, could I also run 110 an 150.

You could fit a narrow semi knobbly 17 inch rear tyre on the front of your SV .
Several of the cheaper brands like Kenda and IRC do tyres in the sizes of 3.50x17 and I think Pirelli do a 120.90.17 .
If the tyre is directionally marked ,then put it on backwards.
Keep the speed down on the tarmac and you should be OK.

You can fit any size tyres that will fit in the swinging arm/forks, the only way to find out if your chosen tyres work is to try them and see.....or find someone else who has tried them, if you knew someone with a DL you could see if the wheels will fit yours. I think money spent on well set up suspension is never wasted:- improves ride/comfort, increases enjoyment,confidence,tyre wear(unless you start riding it like a racer), reduces stress and frees your mind to the scenery/traffic, it also gives your bikes frame and wheels a much easier time. You have to do as you see fit but you have a bike that's almost there, you could continue improving that and look for a DR that's not been abused......

No, not really. The tyre size affects cornering/handling, and a bit of awareness here would be useful.

In addition, if you have an accident with "any size tyres" you risk having any insurance claim thrown out, to say nothing of you being charged with a vehicle in an unsafe condition. You'll also have to inform your Insurer of any modifications - if you don't, they'll also use that as an excuse not to pay out. If you do tell your Insurer of this modification, don't say you fitted "any size tyres"!

The OP should be very careful of the advice that Oothef gives here. :rolleyes2:
:scooter:

As I said, the only way to find out is to try.....If the tyres are in good condition, insurers would have little or no case.I always have and always will fit tyres (and rims if necessary) to make a bike handle how I want it to, not how some development rider/engineer thinks it should.
I've a battered A/T with a 130 18 on the back, it doesn't suit, 140 is standard it had a 150 on it when I bought it, I can't see any insurer having a case that my bike is unsafe, they weren't interested when I told them about exhaust, seat, panniers.
When fitting different sized tyres you should ride carefully until you understand their effect on the handling, narrower profiles usually make steering quicker/more precise, fatter the opposite. then there's profiles........

I second Caminando´s word of caution - radically altering your tyres is very risky, unless you know 100%, what you´re doing. And it might lead you to interesting situations with insurance, etc., if you´re involved in an accident.

Fitting knobbly tyres into a DL650 would not make it a perfect off-road bike (a tiny bit better, perhaps), and fitting the same on an SV (if you´re able somehow) would probably make it horrible on the pavement, and not really an off-road bike, either. There are other factors than just tyres, that make a machine suitable or non-suitable for something.

Provided the tyres are approved for road use they should not void insurance in your home country .Check it out though because [thankfully]not every country is as anal as the UK with regard to insurance .
Tyres sizes are not uniform anyway and one manufacturer's stated size may actually be wider than another's.[I once had a 130-90 that would not fit inside the swingarm ,even though it was the standard size for that bike! ].
Once you are in Africa on your RTW nobody will care about your tyres .

ANY changes you make to the bike,such as heavy panniers , will affect the way it handles ,tyres are just another factor .You just have to adapt the way you ride to remain safe .

I choose tyres with the tread pattern that is most suitable for the terrain I intend to travel .For instance; Conti TKCs or Kenda Trakmasters for muddy unpaved roads and Distanzias/Anakees/Tourances for tarmac and dry gravel.It's simple and it is safer to have the right tyres for the job regardless of the original fitment.

Very interesting discussion about tires. I would not dream of trying just any type of tires.

And I do not want to go fast, competition like anywhere... But from my very limited experience off-tarmac with the SV ( road tires ) was that in the mud/grass/wet track it can get really slippery. To my understanding a good pair of off-road tires would solve this (if going slowly ).

If I go with the SV then I know I will have portions of road without seal and so I would like to be able to do them without too much hassle... They would still be roads but I really cannot evaluate how hard it would be for me to go with street tires on Dalton Highy or on some African piste road. And again, speed is not an issue, steady and safe progress is...

That was the only reason why I was researching the possibility of putting 150 tires in the back and 110 in the front.

I know that whatever I do, SV will not be a real enduro. But then again neither is considered the DL ( by some ). And I just cannot convince myself yet that 6000 euro (1/3) of the money that I have, should go to a new bike instead of gas and so on :)

Hmm it is good that winter is here... I will have a lot of time to think and plan...

Yes the UK insurance situation is anal; we all know that - but try saying that when they disallow your claim. All carelessly given advice as we've seen on this thread is heading for disaster, legally and practically. Dont some people get the point that Insurers LOOK for reasons not to pay? That's all they want - not to pay.

Sure if you're in Africa etc it doesn't matter at all - you fit what you can get. But to recklessly suggest that you can fit any old tyre and just take a little bit more care is daft and dangerous. :thumbdown::stormy::rain:

Anjin San isn't swallowing this poor advice, but others might.

I think the situation in case of insurance claims or similar is pretty clear for all of us. So let's not get to flame up...

Unfortunately I do not have anyway the money to ensure the bike. Not for an international trip anyway. But I am interested in my own safety so the prospect of tire slipping on me is not too good.

But the question about the tires is not general : it is very specific to one point : 150 instead of 160 on the back. and 110 instead of 120 in the front. Let's say could I fit and use safely a pair of TK80s?

Anjinsan , people ride the Dalton on fulldress Harleys and Goldwings .
Your SV650 will be fine as long as you respect the weather and road conditions .

Very good to know Dodger. Thank you.

I feel more and more that I will leave on my SV and use the money for something else. Increase the confort of the pillion, buy a bashplate a rear shock and a new handlebar for more up-right position. In any case, all these added up should be much less than a DL on which I should start adding stuff from 0.

I do plan however a road test of DL ... who knows... maybe I will fell in love :)

In any case thank you very much for all the advice. Any other pro-con is welcomed. The Winter is looong :)

You are welcome .

Here is a thread that might be interesting .

V-Strom style tires for SV650? - ADVrider

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...Funny/YFR1.jpg
SV650 Wannabe Motard/Adventure Bike - Page 15 - ADVrider

So let's not get to flame up...
Wise words, I'm certain you'll consider the options carefully and either build or buy a bike that suits your needs....Just a couple more modifications......Every time you change one thing it tends to spotlight a weakness somewhere else. I know in the U.K. svs' have been bored to 750cc, had zx6r swinging arms moded to fit and had gsxr750 front ends fitted(I have one in the shed, just need a bike to fit it to!) they are a well liked bike. If you are worried/unsure about tyre suitability/fitment contact the manufacturers, I'm sure they'll give you sound advice from vast knowledge and experience and for legal advice, talk to a professional....
The most important consideration when looking at tyre options is not size, which can effect handling for better or worse, it is actually speed rating. If this is not correct for your bike, even if you don't go near flat out, then you could be in trouble. If a tyre de-laminates due to over speeding or overloading, insurance could be the last thing on your mind.....Literally.

Dodger, never seen the SV as young Frankenstein, though every time something I've had stripped fires up I can't stop myself from shouting "the monster lives, the monster lives!" I've thought of seeking treatment but there du'n't seem no fun in it.
Still can't find my donkey jacket

Anjinsan, just looked at the post from 5hrs back, if you fit a 150 section instead of a 160 that's 10mm narrower which equates to 5mm each side of the tyre, the same with the front. The fact that you are fitting a very slightly narrower tyre than standard means that the resulting profile will be slightly flatter which will give a larger contact patch, I've yet to see standard fitment tyres used to their edge, so a flatter profile means you have more chance of using more of the tyre more of the time. It's not rocket science, it's much more complicated than that. Find the tyres you'd like to fit then ask the manufacturers if they think they would be suitable, and as I've said above speed and load rating is where it can all fall apart.
Check jhsracing.co.uk they specialise in performance but have been fettling svs since they came out, even if you don't want to go fast there's lots that is relevant

Not too long ago ,I had a very interesting chat with an Avon employee specifically about the Distanzia tyre .One of my bikes has a 19 inch rear wheel and the choice of rear tyre is very limited .
His [unofficial] advice was a 100/90-19 in place of the 4.10-19 and ,because it is a front fitment tyre. to fit it backwards .The bike produces about 65 hp and he felt that it would not overstress the tyre .
My experience has been that he was right .

I doubt if you will find a tyre manufacturer that will officially recommend the fitting of non standard sizes .It will be entirely up to you to choose whether you want to try this or not .

:mchappy:

There are reasons, why a factory chooses specific tyre sizes and profiles for a bike. One of these is that they have a big impact on handling, so if you decide to alter them, you´d better be aware of the possible downsides - and also know specifically, what you are looking to get from the change, because otherwise it makes little sense.
　
If looking to get tyres for overlanding, I´d put tyre life, and ability to carry weight, way ahead of grip in the mud, for example (especially, if it´s an SV we´re talking about here). Most people do most of their miles on tarmac, even on long trips. But this of course is fully up to you - some like to explore the smallest backroads they can find, and then they may actually need things like grip in loose surfaces, etc. But that is also very slow going, so again depends on many things, like how much time have you got. If you dont have a lot, then you´re likely to stay mostly on paved roads.

I think you´ll need to first figure out, what kind of riding you intend to do (are you really going to do off-road a lot), and then make a decision, if there is a need to alter SV´s tyres in any way.

Frame geometry, suspension, body weight and position, fuel, luggage, passenger, road conditions, wind, weather, tyre pressure and wear all effect the way a bike handles, all of these are set by a manufacturer whose prime concern is profit, which means making a bike that will sell to the maximum number of people whilst keeping production cost to a minimum. If you are Mr average bimbling around, occasionally doing long trips, maybe with a passenger and luggage then you may get by with a standard bike dragging its arse and steering like a barge. If you take your bike and biking seriously then every variable that can be changed to make the bike more suited to you and the way you use it should be carefully considered, tried and its effect noted. Tyres are a piece of the fascinating puzzle, if you don't want to find out the what changes different sizes make, stick to original sizes, though you will find different makes have different profiles and sizing, effecting handling. When riding in places where the main driving qualification seems to be a great faith in their God I want a bike that will steer and stop bloody quick, not one that needs a fortnights notice to turn, tyres, their size, profile,tread and compound contribute greatly to a bike you can have confidence in and relax on.
You change one thing, you change everything.
:oops2:Anyway, SV or DR??????
As I said previously, make the road bike better and look for a good, cheap DR

^ I respect your opinion, but I politely disagree with more or less everything that´s in your latest post, except that there are differences between tyres, and small changes can have big effects.

In some rare cases, it might make sense to alter your tyre sizes/profiles, but way too often it´s just goofin´ around with things you do not fully understand. That´s why you need to think carefully, before you recommend this to others, even if you happen to be an expert. They may not be.

Have you ridden an SV, by the way?? And if so, what makes its recommended tyres unsuitable for travel?

What he said:thumbup1::thumbup1::biggrin3:

No, I haven't ridden a SV I've looked for one and not found anything that suits, yet, I haven't said that standard tyres aren't suitable, the original post by Anjinsan was asking about SV/DR/DL and the possibility of fitting alternative tyres. It is possible to fit different size tyres to any machine, they may or may not improve the bikes handling characteristics, the only way to find out is to try, or speak to someone who has, I think I've said this before. I've fitted tyres and changed them in a week, they didn't suit, vague steering over 90, a lesson learned, I know of someone who was persuaded to fit the latest all singing all dancing rear.... he went straight on at the first corner, the bike wasn't set up for the much lower profile.
To not try something is to remain forever ignorant.
As I said before, you can fit what you want that will fit, everyone else has emphasised the caution required.
If someone is asking about tyre sizes, I assume, perhaps wrongly, that they are an experienced enough biker to know that it could effect the characteristics of their bike.
If I've miss led you Anjisan, please accept my apologies, I assumed you already had insight from the original question, I didn't mean to lead you on the road to your certain doom

oothef you do not need to applologieze. You are stating your honest opinion about a (maybe stupid?) question of mine and your thoughts as well as petcha's and others are welcomed and read carefully. Of course there is no "best" solution. And any advice, one way or the other, any input can just help make some light on a very ambiguous decision that I have to make.
After reading your thoughts I am more confident in my SV and I do think that it can go to a lot of places. But traveling 7000 km in Europe on it I am also aware of the downsides of traveling on a bike that was not created initially for this.
Ride position, seat, fuel range, wind protection, alternator capacity, tire sizes, front wheel size, passenger space, all favor.
Having 6000 more in the account at the start of the trip favors the SV... :helpsmilie:
So if money were out of the picture, I would get the DL, add some extras and of I go. :)
But since money have to be taken into consideration... the decision is hard for me. So trying to find all kind of "solutions" to improve the "downsides" was/is a kind of natural alas... not so effective.

Just to put things into perspective, I have this dilema because I am dreaming a bigger, more than one continent, more than 1-2 months, 2up ride. If I would travel only in Europe I wouldn't even think to change the current SV. But outside a 2-3 weeks trips I am in a dark. Hence me bugging you here :)

Anjin, I'm certain you will have a good trip on any of your bikes - just load up the bike and go and don't worry about the right bike etc. 99% of the time you will be on tarred roads so your bike will be great - any of your bikes. People have gone RTW on mopeds and others have crossed the Sahara on sportsbikes and Honda C90 scooters. :scooter:

You've been advised by one person to "use any old tyre" , then by another to put on totally unsuitable tyres and to "fit them backwards", but you should then "take care". You've had advice from unnamed mystery tyre experts who ("unofficially", of course) "feel " that this backward fitting will probably be ok. You can do all of this :nono:, but this "advice" ignores the issues of handling, safety, and legal insurance.

You have also seen Pecha's informed, thoughtful advice which I hope you will think about carefully, for your safety.