dl650 vs everything arrgghhh too much choice
 

Hi folks,

Im planning a trip to northern africa (through europe into morrocco and maybe further). I'm hunting around for a bike that will cope with tarmac and dirt tracks. the dl650 is coming up as reliable but as i may venture further into africa (maybe even all the way down) im no longer sure if its what i need. would i be better with something more dirt track orientated like a big single? im travelling solo and am well used to travelling light as ive done plenty of touring on a push bike.

i thought i had it sorted untill i started looking at bikes, now i want them all!!!

My DL is able to manage easy dirt, gravel, etc. It's not fun, but it's perfectly do-able. It's got enough clearance to handle rough roads, including potholes, ruts, speed bumps and more. Mud or soft sand are extremely unpleasant.

My KLR handles all that stuff better, and makes most of it fun--not merely tolerable. Soft sand and mud are the exceptions--it renders them manageable, but not fun.

The DL is way superior on pavement--faster, more comfortable, more fun. But on a 90/10 trip, the KLR is the one I bring because of that 10%.

Decide what kind of trip you're really going to take--not the one you dream of, in which you're floating endlessly across softly-sculpted sand dunes in the evening light, but the trip you're actually contemplating. If there's substantial mud or sand involved, bring a single. If not, you'll be pleased with the DL.

Hope that's helpful.

Mark

Yamaha XT660Z Tenere.

I totally agree with this sentiment. if you are planning on going off tarmac for any proportion for your trip you're better of with a big trail bike than an "adventure bike"

I went down to morocco on an mt350e last summer and although I wanted a bit extra on the road going down, it was worth it once the tarmac ran out.

Take a look at 600cc + trail bikes such at the yamaha xt600/660, I know there is a fairly sorted MT 350 for sale at the moment as well.

If you want to do a lot of off tarmac then look at DRZ400S or WR250R

Just my my 2 pennies worth

Just sold my DL650....

It's so big and heavy. I felt it was too heavy for the power and comfort it provided.

It will 'handle' light dirt roads but it feels way out of it's comfort zone.

I would go for something like a 660Z Tenere if you've got the leg length for it.

A DR650 SE would be a perfect compromise if you can find a nice one in the U.K.

I'm riding a dl650 - often 2up with gear - around the back roads of the Kimberley (remote NW Australia) at the moment, and have put 26K KM's on it across lots of different roads across the country in the past year.

The roads here in the Kimberley have plenty in the way of corrugations and sand - we're yet to hit anything we can't make it though though (apart from a month back when we went had to get towed by a 4WD after getting bogged, with the bike resting on the bashplate) and have made our way through mud, sand, water and the rest. We spend plenty of time on roads marked '4WD only'

It is a heavy bike - so if you are planning on spending a decent amount of time off road, go elsewhere. But it would have to be a fairly large amount of your trip off off off road or on sand to rule it out. It will get anywhere, and on tarmac or gravel it is super comfy and fun to ride. If you are somewhere that could conceivably be called a 'road' most of the time, you'll be fine on the strom

Thanks for the thoughts folks, I know this is an endless debate.......

Any thoughts on the Transalp?

If you go for a Transalp, you want the 600 or the 650. The 700 is a tarts road bike, IMO...

They're both lighter than the Dl650 and have similar on-road capabilities.

The XL650 has a smaller tank which gets you about 180-200 miles but it's a fine bike with great reliability. The 600 has a larger tank and I think they average about 230 miles to a tank.

Very simple to work on once you get through the plastic.

They also have longer travel suspension than the V-strom and 21" spoked wheels which are much nicer on bad roads.

I've owned both and I'd take a Transalp over a V-storm any day.

However, the V-storm has FI which can give you up to 280 miles on it's tank which can save a fair few £££££ over a long trip.

Thanks ted, useful thoughts. its the age old problem of trying to get one bike to do everything!

The transalp is top of the list at the mo but that said ive just been on ebay looking at the beemer f650gs, although i hear reports of various problems with these.....

I'm not even going to comment on this. They're like Marmite.

Some really love them and some blame these bikes for every problem they've ever had on the road.

Just search the hubb and make your own opinion.:innocent:

I gathered that. I'm gonna try and get test rides on the 3 in my short list being the dl 650, transalp 650, and the f650gs (759cc version).

I'm coming from pure road bikes (currently a zx6r) so reckon theyll all feel a bit strange but im looking forward to a bike i can be master of rather than a bike thats master of me.....ive had enough screaming speed and aching knees to last a life time...

thanks for the advice ted, i'll let you know how i get on.

I have a dl650 it is a grate bike but not a off road bike. I had a 1999 f650 grate bike much like the DL but had problims bit hard to good people to work on them. I was not able to get the Transalp and the KLR did not do what the DL will do on the road as well and I use the bike on the road most of the time.

So I will give my take on the DL.
If you will be spending most of your time on the road the DL may be a good bet. A new seat and windscreen will help to make it a much better road bike, some work on the shock and frunt end will make even better. I can ride a 1000 mile day on mine if need be. But like any "jacks of all trades" you will giving up something.
With the DL is is off road. It gust is not made for it. From the shocks to tyres and wheels to the lay out and build of the bike. It is to havey, bigger spoked wheels are need, the shock is under built, it is built as a road bike with oil cooler and filter neer the ground and pipes that run under the bike. Then there is that fairing, all that plastic gust looking to brake. All of this can be helped most can not be fixed.

If you are going to spend your time on road a DL is hard to beat for the price. If going off road is your thing you may want to look at a more off road bike.

The Transalp could be marginally better off-road than DL650, but it´s still too heavy, and frankly its suspension isn´t up to much either.

On-road DL650 has way more punch than Transalp 600/650, in fact it has more than the Africa Twin 750, or the newest XL700 Transalp (which has FI, but is about 10 hp down according to the dyno tests I´ve seen)... and sure you don´t need a lot of power to do big trips, but especially if you´re going two-up, or have to cover the distance on the motorways, it certainly does no harm to have a few ponies in reserve. For me, the 600/650 feels exhausted in that kind of riding (surprisingly even the Africa Twin did sometimes). And to indicate how much they were struggling, fuel consumption went sky-high, especially on the Africa Twin.

Besides, for me it´s FI all the way, even for RTW-trips these days, fuel consumption, range and coping with altitude being the main reasons. Also seems to actually work better than carbs ever did, never really had a fuel system issue in any of my bikes or cars, that had FI.

What bikes have you been using Pacha?

If by using you mean owning, of the big trailies I've had over the years an XL650, a total of five Africa Twins 650/750, an older Tiger 885, and now on my third DL650. Also ridden more than just a test ride, at least a few hundred kms on the XL600&700, and F650GS(single/twin).

Especially the AT was such a great allround&touring machine in the 90's, and of course in a way it still is. It's just that it wasn't significantly updated after 1993, so the competitors have gone past in many areas (with FI, way more economic, more power, better lights, and not so bothered with lots of weight on board - fully loaded the AT's handling suffered).

Thats an impressive list Pacha! I am pretty much sold on the Dl 650 but will test ride the others first. reason for the attraction of the dl is that i also need it to be a day today commuter bike and i feel coming from a sports bike (zx6r j2) im really gonna feel the lack of power in the others. Its that age old thing.... if i could have them all i would!

The engine really is the sweet spot on the DL650, and it has more punch than you may expect from the displacement. But it's still slow, if compared to a sports bike. The 800cc BMW GS, or Tiger800, though I have not tested the latter, offer more in that department. DL650 is about on par with the Versys 650 & F650GS twin, though the Beemer is actually 800cc, so it has more torque.

I may sound strange but im actually looking forward to get rid of the sports bike and get on something that isnt constantly trying to kill me! not to mention the pain in your knees after 100 miles. the acceleration on a sports bike is addictive but im not sure its fun anymore.

what do you reckon to the beemer f650gs single. just spotted a cheap one on ebay with low mileage.

The single cylinder bike will be even further away from your current sportsbike. Its great advantage is that it is a bit lighter, more nimble, and so they are usually better for serious off-road. It´s right there, where the bike´s weight is really important. But I haven´t ridden so much on the F650GS single to be able to really comment on that particular model. People seem to do big trips on them all the time, though.

Personally I prefer twins (or at least 2 cylinders) for long-distance travel... (for 2-up, I would not even think of a single cylinder, but that´s just me!)

Actually a decade ago I did several trips in southern Africa on a rented KLR650 (also 1-cylinder), and while it was great in its own way (I was riding 1-up), no reason why a Transalp, Africa Twin or DL650 would not have been even more enjoyable. But it´s worth noting, that roads were generally quite good in the southern part of the continent, in all other parts of Africa there may be regions, where a lighter single might be better.

Coming from a sports bike to a F650GS would be like trading in Cheryl Cole for Cilla Black...

Maybe ease yourself in with a twin/triple cylinder 650cc+ machine.

What about a Tiger 800XC ?? Pricey though.

I like the analogy ted! i'm kinda used to shocking bike changes, went from a gpz 900 to an xt 500 at one point. that was a steep learning curve, especially kick starting an old thumper!

I've thought about both the tiger 800xc and the beemer f800gs but untill the second hand value comes down their a bit out of my league!

With a fork brake, and suitable tyres (I´ve got Michelin Pilot Road 3´s on mine right now, also tested Metzeler Z6´s before) the DL650 is a nice bike for twisty roads.

Even the suspension holds up pretty well, but I´m talking about the 2012-model here, which is better in this department, than older models were. I´d even go as far to say it is surprisingly quick for a bike, that´s only 650, AND can also tour fully loaded 2-up without any problems. Just don´t expect it to perform like a real sportsbike...

too heavy
 

I wouldnt worry too much about power. Dakar bikes are 450cc and put out 70 odd HP ... they have more power than you need off road unless you are Marc Coma.

If you have not really ridden and toured off road before, you are only making it miserable for yourself by trying it on heavy bikes. As a few people have hinted at above ... stick with a large single and prep it the way you want the bike to be set up. Judging from your answers to posts above, you dont have that irrational paranoia about modern bikes that plague many - which is a good thing.

Based on that, I would be looking at a KTM 690 EXC or BMW G650 X-Challenge and converting them into adventure bikes. Plenty of info on both bikes around the place. At about 140 kgs (as opposed to about 220 kgs), full range suspension, either of these will be 20 times easier to handle in sand, rocks and mud than a DL650. Both are fuel injected, reliable, and there are good aftermarket parts available for each to adventurise them.

If money is an object, consider the DR650, NX650, XR650, XL650, XT600 etc

Have a look as well at the XT660R and XTZ 660 - but bear in mind they are built like tanks, and weigh almost as much as well.

You really have to think what you want to do in your adventure travels ... you need to choose a bike that doesnt limit you. The limiting factor you need to consider is what are the hardest parts of your planned journey. Choose a bike to do that - cause any bike can do the asphalt road parts. Heavy bikes off road is a recipe for misery. Either of the bikes above will cruise all day at 80 mph once you fit a fairing. If you choose too heavy then you limit where you can go and what you can do significantly. If you choose too light, then all it means is through Europe you cruise at 75-80 mph instead of 85 -90 mph.

Nobody gets to Morocco, Mongolia, Siberia, Bolivia and wishes he had a bigger heavier bike. Nobody.

I have just sold my DL650, I was convinced it was the bike to go round the world.
Having done some further research, I found its the ideal bike for touring in Europe on decent roads.... Off road... Forget it !! way to heavy and unstable.

I am now taking a TT600RE, yes I had to prep it all again.. but isnt that half the fun.

In a year from now I will let you know wether I regret selling the Wee strom

Cheers
Geordie aka Will

[YOUTUBE]Hitler find out a C90 is riding around the world - YouTube[YOUTUBE]

very funny Ted :thumbup1:

Having just rode to the Gambia on a C90 I can see why he was so upset lol

It also reprograms your brain into thinking you dont have to blast along at 80mph everywhere !!

Cheers
Geordie aka Will

I do not question at all, that a much lighter single will be far superior off-road. And a bike like a DL650 will be a heavy pig in those conditions, so totally helpless, that it cannot be even compared.

But I think it´s still worth keeping in mind, that riders are different, and the trips they plan, and do, are equally different. Some people benefit more from space, comfort, and ability to carry weight (especially if riding 2-up then it´s important), than they would benefit from having a lightweight bike, that handles well on sandy or muddy surfaces.

These days you can go around the planet without practically leaving the tarmac, if that´s what you want. Or you can find some very challenging roads/tracks almost everywhere, especially in some remote areas or 3rd world countries, if that´s what you want. And it can still, in both cases, be "an adventure" or "out of your comfort zone", that just depends on your past experience, and personal definitions of those subjects.

There is no one bike, that´ll be "the best" for everything, so often you´ll need to think, what would be the best compromise FOR YOU. And you should also listen only so much to somebody else´s advice, because no matter how much of an expert they are, in the end their idea of the "big trip" could be quite different from yours. What your trip will be like, is the key to choose the right bike IMO.

(but just my 0.02, and without any sarcasm, certainly there are folks on this site, who know more about adventure travel than I ever might).

That's very very true....
I met an old Polish guy who went from Poland to South Africa on a massive 1200cc Chromed up Suzuki Cruiser.
Although, he did put it on a truck for the Kenya-Moyale 'Bandit Highway', but even that is in the process of being sealed.

However, it's not just the roads you have to consider. Many camp sites/ hostels tracks, detours and road works can throw miles of unexpected HORRENDOUS off-road conditions at you and this is when the Goldwings and big GS style bikes will get unstuck very quickly.
However, if one takes their time and plans ahead, it won't be a deal breaker.

Factor in the time available, rider and tyres too:

In 1999 I went to the North Cape/Finland Russia etc. on an F650 on tyres straight from the dealer. I was terrified on the long stretches of gravel that have to be done when they are fixing the roads or there are land slides. I saw Goldwings and Harleys turn back but the old F could do it (just) even with too much stuff and a rider who didn't even know to stand up.

This lead me to do the BMW off road event (I was a Charlie before Ewan and Charlie :rofl: ) and I went to the desert the first time in 2003 on Pirelli knobblies. R1100/1150GS's with inexperienced riders and the wrong tyres again turned back. A couple of experienced big GS riders on TCK's stayed with the F's (as did a bloke an a Yamaha XS goodness knows what muscle bike thing, but he'd been RTW about ten times).

I've been in similar conditions on knobbly-ish tyres on the Bonneville and found it easier and not in the slightest bit scary having had a few more years in varied conditions. This is an underpowered road bike that probably weighs as much as a 1200GS but is low. My XT600 would be a blast in these conditions but a PITA two up on the motorway run to get there or the trip to work.

I'm probably about to buy a V-strom 650 exactly because on my current mix of work-motorway- 2 up - gravel track it will do everything quite well. No one may get to Mongolia and wish they had a heavier bike, but I wonder how many cursed XT225's while trying to get across Germany? If there is no time limit against the journey of course the goal posts move again.

Andy

test road a dl650 yesterday. Having riden to the place on a sports bike it was like getting out of a ferrari and driving a landrover. hated it for the first 5 minutes but by the time i came back didnt want to get off. totally diferent riding experience! corners are very strange! None the less really liked the bike and could easily imagine setting off on a long distance adventure with one. only the xt and transalp to try now and i'll make a decision.

its funny that everyone says the dl is so heavy, i thought it felt incredibly light and easy to manover. looks big but didnt feel big if you know what i mean. guess its all down to what your used too.

Which year model is the DL650 you tested? 2012 looks and feels quite a bit different (more agile, better stock suspension, or at least damping setup) from previous version.

And if it had the crappy Bridgestone TrailWings that I believe are its OEM tyres at least in Europe (actually in every model since 2004), then it will feel much better everywhere, when you put more modern rubber on it. For someone, who comes from a sportsbike, a fork brace might also be a nice investment, makes it less prone to sidewind and steering feeling more precise.

Even a Harley can feel light and flickable until it's on it's side on a muddy track or when you're trying to push it fully loaded around a cramped hostel gravel car park etc etc.

Test rode a xt660z today.......my god the vibrations! seriously only took it for a spin round a largish carpark and thought i was being electricuted, great cure for constipation i would imagine!.

really like the look and feel of the bike, but if ivibrates like that at low speeds, what in gods name is it like when you get up to motorway speeds?

hahah oh boy !!

That's probably one of the smoothest less vibey Single Cylinder bikes on the market..

Go and try a KTM 640 or a XR650 etc

:Beach:

Currently 2,500 Kms into my round the world trip on a TT600RE..... oh how much do I regret getting rid of my Wee Strom ????


Every second of the day !!!!!! I hate this bike I am on !! soooo vibby I feel I have no hands by the end of the day.. and the seat!!! despite inserting a gel pad and using a sheepskin... my butt just hurts all day long... on a positive note.. the bike is so easy to ride standing up it helps with my butt lol

Cheers
Geordie aka Will

well thats a bummer! you'll get used to it though, i used to tour on an old xt 500 single and yea to start with youd wonder what in gods name your doing but once the scenery changes a few times it becomes less about the bike and much more about the journey. infact same could be said for pushbikes or walking, its all just a means to an ends.

having said that...... what made you change your bike for the trip geordie, i'd be interested to know your thinking there.

problem i'm having is second hand values, of the two bikes i'd really go for (f800gs/ tiger 800xc) neither have been around long enough to have depreciated much. I loved the dl650 motor, but it does seem so utterly road orientated, really think suzuki have missed a trick there. Maybe i could get a scrap wee motor and retro fit it into dr650 frame. that would do it for me, a crosser with a smooth powerful v twin

If I can sort out the handlebar vibrations I will be happy ish !

The numb bum I will learn to live with.

The reason for the change of bike.... rougher roads thru Russia.... I will be kicking myself, if by the time I have crossed Russia, I am thinking I could have done this on the Wee !!!

I miss the smoothness of the Vstrom... must be a V twin thing :thumbup1:

Cheers
Geordie aka Will

Good luck geordie! Keep us posted it would be interestinmg to hear how you get on on the single in comparison to how you think the wee would have done? I know 2 lads did a rtw on wee's not so long ago but the consensus from them was thay would have prefered smaller bikes.

like i say it would be nice to chop the motor out of a wee and stick it in something more dirt orientated, best of both worlds. Its not like the wee engine is heavy its the oversize of the rest of the bike that makes it so big. there is a lad somewhere ont interweb swapping the front end from a ktm (cant remember what type) onto a wee i'll see if i can find the link.

People go RTW on streetbikes. The Wee is much more capable on bad roads than your average streetbike, the wheels aren´t made of cheese, even if spokes could be better (but I still prefer tubeless), and it is much easier to find the bashplates, crashbars etc., that it´ll need, cheaply and off-the-shelf. (But I´m not saying that a streetbike, or a Wee, would be the best choice for everyone – as mentioned before, that depends on the rider and the trip!)

Bike
 

I ride a F650 gs twin on my RTW, I have ridden down thru Africa over the old Mayole road etc. To this point the bike has been flawless and extremely comfortable,:thumbup1: however I did invest in a Corbin seat which I recommend if you are 2 up.:thumbup1: I have owned a DL 650 as well and it is an extremely good reliable bike, but not the one for me as it was just to big and heavy. I am a relatively sedate rider (well my wife riding behind me may have something to do with that:innocent:) who users a bike as a means of travel, however when I see the guys on the DRs & XTs etc. they tend to ride these bikes a little harder (well alot actually) & I do admire there passion for riding.:thumbup1: So I really think you first should determine what kinda rider you are and get a bike that suits you !! I will eventually do the west coast of Africa on my own (wife does not want to do this side:() so I won't take the BMW twin, I'll be taking a DR650 because it will be aggressive riding at my choice. Just for the record my wife as a F650gs single & is fun to ride, but 2up it would be a nightmare not to mention very uncomfy:(
Cheers
Paul

Picked up an 07 strom last week. been doing short trips and so far so good. took a bit of time to get used to a diferent rev and power range (i kept ringing its neck like a sports bike). now ive sussed were the torque is at i'm really enjoying it.

I would swap my granny for my old strom right now !!! getting to like the TT600 but the vibes are still there!!
Miss the smoothness of the strom.... good luck with yours

Cheers
Geordie aka Will

Have you got weights on the bars geordie? They can make a hell of a diference. Its amazing how much of your experience with a bike is down to what you are used too. I'm loving the strom on windy a roads and single tracks, but duel carriage ways very dull and it feels like im ringing it at anything over 80. but then thats just me being used to twice the horse power which was great on fast roads but always threatend to lauch you into the hedge on the windy back ones.

out of interest have you covered any roads in your trip yet that you would not have taken the strom on?

Chain needs adjusting and you need to rev it a little, that's all. Great travel bikes.

I test rode a G650GS the other day just as a comparator and couldn't believe what a piece of shit it was compared to the Yamaha. Also tried the F800GS - the ride was great but the reliability sucks....

The Tenere is fine up to about 75-80 mph, but happier at 70 mph, which is fast enough for me and the fuel economy is much better too.

I can't fault the bike actually.

So far I have not encountered any roads the wee strom would not have been able to handle!!

But that said, I am starting to bond with the TT600, though its not as comfortable as the strom!

Cheers
Geordie aka Will

Glad to hear your getting on with the bike geordie. And although i'm sure its not too good for ye to be riding along comparing how you think the wee would have coped compared to the tt, it sure is interesting for us back at home.

stay safe, keep us posted.

c