A couple questions about Honda's and Suzuki's
 

Hello everyone!

I made a similar post a few years ago but I never went on buying another bike, mainly because my travelplans got delayed by COVID.

I'm now planning a big trip for in around 1.5/2 years. I'm planning to travel for at least a year, with possibly two years. It will be RTW and I'm going to ride offroad. I don't plan on riding the smallest of trails, but I do expect to go offroad and off the beaten path. I'm thinking 65/35 on road/off road. My weight is 85kg and I'm 1.82m.

I've done some research which yielded me more questions, hence this post. A couple of rules I set myself to:

- Easy access to parts all around the world so no KTM/Triumph/BMW.
- Under 200kg (440lbs) wet without panniers, preferably around 160kg (350lbs) because I'm going to drop it.
- Able to go on highways, considering I'll travel RTW I'll have to do some highways.
- Worth under 6k (because of carnet de passage and bike theft risk).

After the research I found a couple of bikes:

Suzuki:
- DR650 (cheap, lots of available parts and mods, but not as powerful and light as the other bikes)
- DRZ400 (cheap, light, lots of available parts and mods, but not that highway worthy)

Honda
- CRF450L (light, not as great on the highway)
- XR650R (light, powerful, not always street legal and quite pricey)
- XR650L (light, not as great on the highways)

Yamaha
- Tenere 700 (heavy, expensive, not that good offroad but has got everything except for price and weight)
- XT660Z (heavy, not that powerful and not as good offroad as other bikes)

Kawasaki
- KLR650 (tested RTW bike, not that powerful and light)

I've got a couple of questions regarding the bikes:

- DRZ400 too light/tiresome for long rides on the highway?
- XR650R: too aggressive for long RTW rides?
- I've heard some people about single cylinders making too many vibrations for long rides, thoughts? I'd rather not get vibrated of the bike.
- I don't want the most powerful bike, but I would like to be able to cruise at 100kmp/h without squeaking everything out of the engine.

Currently I'm drawn to the Suzuki's, the CRF450, and XR650R. The Suzuki's because they're quite cheap, light (especially the 400) and moddable, the Honda's because of the weight/power distribution. What are your thoughts on this? I know it's an age old question, but I hope you guys can help me a bit out.

CRF300 rally is everything you need.

If youre located in parts of the world where the carburated bikes you mention such as Suzuki Dr650 or Kawasaki Klr 650 are available both will be good alternatives. The Dr650 will need more upgrades but are much lighter than the Klr, thats worth considering. Carburated bikes will struggle more in altitudes though.

Edit: The new KLR now comes as EFI from 2021.

Crf450L? Did you check the service intervals on that one? Oil change every 1000 kms and valve check every 3000 kms. Forget it mate, you are planning the adventure of your life, not let it be ruined by spending time or money servicing the bike every other day.

Some guys have already «adventurized» the KTM 500 - and get good results(?) I still havent understood how often oil change and valve jobs are required on such «adventurized» bikes, but I hope its not as often as standard.

Tenere 660 - I have taken one rtw, 200 k kms, too heavy and to unreliable. Not recommended!

If you can live with 27-28 HP I tend too agree with the last poster - the CRF300 RALLY will be all you need. Lightweight, reliable, economic, ok range (not great) not great on highways but will do 100 km/h, but not much faster. Will need better suspension, handlebars and hand protectors, bash plate and a few minor things more. But then again - most bikes will need some improvement.

Start your trip in Australia and buy a new DR650 at AU$9480 on the road.

@Snakeboy: I hadn't looked at the service intervals of the CRF450, so thanks for pointing that out. It's not gonna be a CRF450 then. That's also why I didn't want to go with the KTM 500.

27-28hp is just a bit too little for me, I already know that I'll get annoyed by it on the long rond.

Looks like it's gonna be the DR, tho I'm still interested in the XR650L/R, depending on the service intervals...


Thanks for the invite but I was planning on starting it from western Europe, it's a bit easier to prepare the bike while I'm still at home.

Another vote for the CRF300, one of the lightest on your list but still perfectly capable and spares available in many places.

Where are you based at? Western Europe you write..... just for your information - the DR650, the KLR and those other carburated bikes have not been sold in EU since around year 2000 where they were banned due to emmision standards. You can of course with a bit of luck find a 20-30 year old bike in western Europe of those models, but chances that you wanna take that bike on a journey to the other side of the world are not so high.

Yes some guys have imported Drs to EU from USA, but for most people thats not really an option you want to do.

Remember that you need a bike for the worst part of your trip, not the best part. A big, heavy and powerful bike is not what you need...

Whatever bike you choose will be your lifeline for a couple of years. You don't really want to go with something that will drive you mad after a month. There's a few bikes on your list that go back a few years so finding decent ones will be the biggest challenge.

Re the two 'X' Hondas - the XR650 is one I looked closely at years ago but concluded it was too crude for travel. It's kickstart only for a start and while that's ok for a small engine there will be days when the effort will be just too much - maybe you'll be feeling lazy or hung over or ill, and you won't want to do it. The XR600 that I have was like that. I either used to leave it idling outside shops or pay the the local kids to push start me. Plus the 650 rear subframe isn't designed to take any weight. You'd need to rebuild / reinforce it considerably.

The 650L is a different animal altogether (and quite rare in the UK). Chris Scott went through the process of turning one into an overlanding bike and the story might still be on his site. Worth reading if you can find it but the big thing for me is it's stepladder high to get on. You're taller than me but it's another one of those things that's fine for a month but you come to hate after a year.

I've done a few miles on KLR's (in the US) and that would be my choice from your list - if you can get a decent one. They're two a penny over there with a huge backup of bits / fixes etc so very much a known quantity. It's not the most exciting bike but six months or a year in what you'll be most grateful for is that it starts, not that it feels 'sporty'.

The Western Europe equivalent of the KLR 650 is the KLE 500 I think... same 35 KW, decent enough offroad and on tarmac, they are plentiful here and can be had for 2-2,5k EUR.

I helped a couple Israeli guys buy a pair of them in Estonia... they rode them along the Silk Road all the way to Vladivostok and sold them there in good working order.

OP, I would say - think of how difficult an offroad experience do you want to have for most of your trip... Chances are, a Suzuki V-Strom 650 or Honda CB500X will do 99% of anything you will ever need, and for that last 1%, you can walk!

You will be able to lift the Teneres if dropped, multiple times over, do I would not worry too much about that. You will likely drop it more often though, and have to muscle it more - than the lighter options.

I second the Honda Rally, CRF300. You might find the suspension a bit plush, but an upgrade won't break the bank. You might also want go up a few teeth on 4he rear sprocket to improve low end torque, a cheap and easy fix. And the other bits and bobs mentioned - the typical for most bikes.

I will never again buy a carbureted bike for serious travel. I will never again buy a bike without ABS, but it must be easy to switch it off, atleast the rear.

Yep, definitely a very interesting option for a rtw.
12,8L tank vs 7,8L at CRF300L.
3,1l/100km.
153kg.
Engine oil change interval 12.800km.

P.S.
Motortek just showed a video of small looking prototype panniers which can hold a 1 gal Rotopax = +500km range. Crash guards without heavy tubing are in construction they anounced.

As far as I can see, none of the bikes you have listed adhere to your rules.
Perhaps general rules are too ridged. The ‘bike’ is both a personal and technical choice.
May I suggest you plan your route, time frame and style of travel eg wild camping, site camping, hostels, hotels etc.
Then see how technical the off road sections are and cross reference that with a realistic view of your skill set.
Are you limited to 2 years or can you keep going till the money runs out?

That will give you a better idea of the bike you will need.

Then think about the bike you would like to travel on, this is very important - are you riding a motorcycle RTW or are you doing a world trip on a motorcycle? There is a difference.

Don’t forget your skills will improve as you travel so at the moment your rules say a lighter bike but by the time you reach Mongolia you might be happy do river crossings on a 200kg bike. However a smaller bike will be cheaper, all round, on your travels so will keep you going longer.

I will argue the case for a CRF300 Rally:
New - the bike will do 50K miles at least with only oil services and general replacement parts - tyres, brake pads etc.
Light - cheaper on fuel, easier and cheaper to ship, easier to get it into the hotel lobby. Good for off road sections.
Cheap and reliable.
Honda network of parts - not that you’ll need any, unless you crash.
Looks - it’s a light adventure bike but looks like a big adventure bike so has presence.

As for highways - the 6th gear on the new 300 Rally is an overdrive, this is good for 75mph cruising which is faster than the speed limit of 99.9% of countries in the world. BTW, after the first week, I suspect your percentage of highway riding will be minimal - unless you’re on a time schedule.

Hope this is helpful - good luck with the trip

Thanks everyone for your input. Tl;dr: I'm first going to make a route and then think of the bike instead of the other way around, tho I'm always interested in your thoughts because I'm curious of your thoughts.

I'm based in The Netherlands, but I don't mind buying a bike inside a radius of 350ishkm. And you're right, I have to buy one secondhand and it's probably going to be old and worn. I am indeed aware that I don't need a powerful bike and I don't really want one. I just want a bike that I don't have to ride on 95% gas while driving on the highway. The CRF300 that multiple people are arguing in favor of has got an overdrive, so that's for sure an interesting bike. I'm gonna see if I can test ride it soon just to get a feeling of how the bike is.

Fair enough, I get that. What kind of KLR did you ride btw?

I haven't planned my whole route yet, but I do know I would like to ride on the TAT, TET, Pamirs + Stans. I'll probably also go offroad in South America and Africa, but I haven't looked at those continents yet. The most difficult roads are probably the high altitude roads in the Pamirs and the Andes. I know this is a bit vague, but I find it hard to sketch a picture for you guys because I don't have that much personal experience with off road riding so I don't know how to describe it. I hope I gave a bit of a picture.


This is a good idea, I will start with route, etc etc and then match the bike to it. Stupid of me that I never thought of it haha. I can keep going until the money runs out, tho I do have the flexibility of being able to work everywhere because I work in healthcare. This can prolong my travels a bit longer.

Re the CRF300: I really like the overdrive on the CRF300, so that's a good pro. I'm not on a time schedule, and as you said: a lighter bike is often a cheaper bike and I rather travel more because I have to spend less at my bike than chopping off my travel time because of my more expensive bike.

Why not?

A friend in the US has a 2007 KLR and it's his 'loaner' bike when we've been over there (every couple of years pre Covid). I've ridden tarmac and dirt roads on it and it's ok. It's not great at anything but one of those bikes that's 75% at everything. Over here I have a Honda XR600 and a CCM 604 - both 600 singles. The Honda has a great engine (mostly) but the rest of it is much too minimal for travel - and believe me I've tried. The CCM has great peripherals - WP suspension, Brembo brakes etc (and you really can tell the difference) but the engine is, frankly, junk. The KLR is softer than the Honda and looser than the CCM (and heavier than both) but overall a far better package.

Re cruising speeds on trail bikes. You'll do well to find any sort of big single that'll top 80mph / 130kph when loaded up. Mostly the 600s do 160kph on the test track and 130 everywhere else. Plus aerodynamics starts making them feel a little unstable from about 120kph (those with high front mudguards anyway). They're at their best cruising in the 100 -110kph range. That's not Porsche on the autobahn territory. Given a choice I much prefer to use their engine characteristics on back roads - roads that are usually speed restricted either by posted limits or curves or surface. For me that's what travel by bike is about.

suzuki
 

DR 350 1996-1999 if you can find one in good shape, This bike will take you anywhere with less problems and you will have plenty more cash in hand
put a 4 or 5 gallon tank on her and a good luggage rack and go

The last two sentences there - wow I couldnt have said it better myself! :smartass:

New overlanders seems to worry that a bike isnt fast enough for highway cruising. Thats not what overlanding is about. Its about exactly what you wrote above here. The backroads, the gravelroads, the roads in third world countries where road conditions, traffic, wildlife and farmanimals, other use of the road such as drying rice and chilies and vegetables, kids soccerfield etc etc etc makes your average speed 50 km/h - on a good day that is. No need to for a bike to be able to cruise at 120-130 km/h when 90 % of the time you will not be able to cruise above at 100 km/h or above.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/bike-de...ation=at_bikes

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/bike-de...ation=at_bikes

Nearly £3K for a 30 year old bike or for less than £600 more a 6 year old bike.
In the UK DR350s are usable classics and sort by older owners who had one back in the day so prices are buoyant.
I know a few such owners and they’re always having to ‘tinker’ with them - none would take them on a RTW trip.

beta 4.0
 

Beta alp 4.0 then, if you want a good bike. last made in 2019 same as the dr 350 just newer. and hard to find I dont think a suzuki 350 air cooled powered bike will dissapoint I am hovering over a 98 suzuki dr 350 right now and a 2019 beta alp 4.0. The beta has zero km the Suzuki has 91000 and one third the price of the beta
The Suzi will need work But you get what you paid for, Me thinks the Suzi is the way to go you can mod the crap out of it but its not necessary in my opinion

dr
 

the 91 dr forget it unless you like kick start, 96 to 99 engine is electric start
the 98 - 99 have adjustable front and rear suspension
UK prices suck

Dr 350
 

except one of the most famous tripof the all:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondo_Enduro

=
Gerald Vince said in an interview: You should spend the money on the trip. Not prepearing for the trip, and have no money left to travell. Adressing the modern "adverntyre bikers" with all extras added

Modding the crap out of something is a fun thing to do as long as I can find a reliable bike. Btw, ain't it difficult to find parts for the Beta when I'm somewhere in Colombia/Tajikistan or some remote place? Not that I don't value your opinion, it's just a thought that popped in my mind.

I would have suggested THIS BIKE seems your just across the ditch, probably sold now?

Mezo.

The answer to your question as of why I would never buy a carburetted bike again. Fuel injection makes the bike run better, it offers greater fuel efficiency, it is less finnicky (no changing of jets at different altitudes, working a choke, etc), and it is maintenance free. Sure, repairng a carburettor is esier and cheaper - but fuel injectors have become extremely reliable. It's not exactly new tech anymore - its a long time since Kawasaki first put fuel injection on the KZ1000G in 1980. And, all the money you will save on gas will pay for several new fuelinjectors should it ever fail (very unlikely that it will).

As for why I would no longer buy a bike without ABS? It reduces the probability of a fatal crash by more than a third, and minor crashes by twice that (sources vary) - an all accidents do not only hurt, they are also expensive. It is very common to spend a lot of money on protection for both the bikeand rider to keep be able to stay operational in the event of an accident. But spendng money on accident prevention - like ABS???

Over the course of time, how ever monor we are talking about - Is it really a question of wether or not you will get into an accident because of poor breaking? Or, is it more a question of "how many times"?

A few years ago, there were fewer options for us, especially if we were to buy used - not so anymore. ABS on motorcycles has been arround long enough that there is a large selection of used bikes out there.

For me, not spending the extra money for ABS falls in the same traveler mentality as putting on extra durable tires with zero grip - to save money - while at the same time investing in crash bars. Getting into an accident in the boonies of a developing country is not the same as it happening close to your own hospital and mechanic. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure - get ABS, and don't ride on tires with less grip than you would while riding closer to home!

For reference: I currently have one bike (2020) with lean sensitive abs, traction control and fuel injection. I also have one bike (2021) with basic ABS and fuel injection - but no traction control. I also have one bike (2011) that has fuel injection, but without all the other nifty stuff. In addition I have three ancient bikes that lacks everything. The only thing I enjoy about the older tech is the nostalgia.

This trip was done in 1995 when the DR350 was still in production - Austin Vince now uses a CRF250L

Thanks for your response and I totally agree. Hereby I also decided I don't want a carb, I want FI. This also rules out the DR650 and DRZ400. I think the best bike will be the CRF300 Rally. That said, I'm still making the route and deciding after I finished making it as I want to know what part of the route will be the hardest part.

Perhaps the 1 factor that is most important in bike choice is time limit.

If you have a limited amount of time for your trip then (unless you’re a Dakar level rider) that will dictate your route and that in turn will influence your choice of bike.
Of course there are those that will just take the bike they want and make it work, or not :thumbup1:

I wonder how many people treat an overland trip like an extended holiday? Something I could be guilty of myself doh
We have a month every summer riding round Europe, Balkans, Morocco etc. Big bikes, all loaded up to camp in comfort and riding the trails with all our stuff safely on the campsite - different story if you have to ride rough roads all day to reach your accommodation.

Remember whatever bike you chose it will be a compromise. No bike will be great at all purposes and in all conditions. A Crf 300 Rally will still not be good at highway cruising, it will still not be the best bike for carry an amount of luggage that a RTW traveller would need. Its important to understand and accept such facts and stick with your choice.

I've owned or do own all of those bikes apart from the Yam 700 and 450L.

I prepped an XR650R and then sold it. It's too aggressive. Kick start only. AC power only. No cush drive etc. Way more vibey than the DRZ400. It's a desert racer. Not an Overlander.

I used a DRZ400S for my UK-Captown trip. It's good for 65 mph, very reliable and tons of mods available. It needs a proper seat and screen though. It is a very capable off road bike and still remains a very firm favourite in the Overland community due to it's versatility. Getting a good one outside of the US is getting tricky though. I have two of them now :)

The 450L is again a very focused offroad bike. I've not heard of anyone Overlanding on one yet. They're dam expensive too.

I had the CRF250L. I thought it was horribly slow and the suspension was pretty crap. Far slower than a DRZ400. But it does have that magic 6th gear that the DRZ doesn't so it probably has a higher top speed. Although it's a long slog to get to that speed when you have luggage on.

It's very popular because it's a Honda. So incredibly reliable and gives fantastic MPG. I am looking forward to trying the 300.


A note of Vibration. Yes, singles do Vibrate more. But if you invest in a great seat, gel pads, sheep skins and fit thick grips with Grip puppies, then they really aren't that bad at all.

I wouldn't overlook the XT660R too. If you can get one where you are ?

They lack ground clearance for really gnarly trails but apart from that it's a peach of an Overland bike which is really overlooked.

That is true and something I have to keep a bit more to mind, thank you of reminding me of it.

I just had a look for the XT660R and I can get proper used ones for around 6000 euros so it's in my budget. I'm not planning on riding the most gnarliest trails as you said, so I'll have an eye out for it as well.

Did you ever try a different rearsprocket for the DRZ? Or did you leave it as stock? Also, do you feel that the Honda's are more reliable than the Suzuki's

Yes. A few. The stock on the DRZ400S is 15/45. I tried a 15/41 which was too long. The bike didn't have the power to pull it to top speed with luggage. 15/42 is okay if you have super lightweight luggage.

I think a 15/43 is a good compromise for doing long distance on the 400S.


Honda and Suzuki both make excellent motorcycles. I think they are equal when it comes to quality and reliability. The trouble with finding a DRZ400 in Europe is that you'll probably only find something old and well used unless you search hard and pay a premium.. They are out there though.

They still make them new for the USA/South Africa and Australia I think.

I don't know what your budget is. But If you don't want to get into restoring or tinkering with older bikes then buying a brand new or almost new CRF300 could tick all of your boxes. Assuming you can get one. There are almost no new bikes available for sale due to Covid.

Australia new Suzuki's DRZ 400's
 

They still make them new for the USA/South Africa and Australia I think.

You are right, they do still make them new for Australia, don't know about ZA and USA, starting about £5100 brand new in Australia. They made a Cape York version which I have in my cousins garage in Sydney..and me stuck in Glasgow..not much use, bloody good bike. It has Suzuki Barkbusters, aluminium bash plate and radiator protectors and for some models you can add a kickstarter. I think around 20,000 of the things in Australia. You see them everywhere, like canaries...up in Cape York there are a lot of tour operators and they use the DRZ 400. Good bike for a tough land.

The Crf300 Rally - there are already heaps of videoclips of the bike on Youtube. This is a relatively good and short one that shows the bikes capability on an interstate road somewhere in the USA.

https://youtu.be/yvlM_etwNxM

A couple of things to be be aware of:
1. Speedo is in miles pr hour (mph) this equals to approx
25 mph = 40 km/h
50 mph = 80 km/h
60 mph = 96 km/h
70 mph = 112 km/h
80 mph = 128 km/h
85 mph = 136 km/h
90 mph = 142 km/h

Modern speedos always seem to show too fast speed compared to real speed. Both my Hondas are 7-8 % off (shows too much speed) I guess this will be the case with this bike too, so withdraw a little to get real speed.

This guy is riding without luggage. And on a long overland or RTW trip you would probably carry 20-30 kilos of luggage at least. (When I rode the Gibb River road, an 800 kms long outback road in Australia I carried 15-16 liters of water and 3,5 liters of fuel) Tools, spare parts, camping equipement, cooking equipement, cutlery etc, food and water, clothes, first aid kit, toileteries, phones, computer, cameras, chargers, cables, maybe a drone etc etc. It all gains up....
Thus - a loaded bike will behave a bit differently than a bike only carrying its rider.
But it still seem to be able to cruise relatively easily at 60-70 mph/95-110 km/h (minus correction of the speedo) So a Crf300Rally seem be able to keep up with speed on the highways in general. But dont expect to cruise easily at 120-130 km/h.

there is no perfect bike !
big singles are too vibey and will drive you mad
small singles are better

either ............ cfr300 rally or cb 500x (great bike )
If i was going to do a 1/2 year trip i would buy a new bike:scooter:

I am in the Netherlands too. I spent simply ages trying to find a nice all around traveling bike for not too much money. I looked at the standard suspects; XT-350, DR-350, XL's. XR's. They were all either worn out or priced at more than half of new CRF250L (or both). I ended up getting sparkled up (heated grips, Camel tank, Sargent seat, Racetech suspension, and more) couple of year old CRF250 Rally for less than new CRF250L. Then Covid, and it has more or less stood in my "berging" for nearly a year. But I have plans for Spain in September.

The Rally made sense for me because;
A. It's a new bike. No parts are worn or old. There are more and more difficulties finding parts for older bikes.
B. Fuel injection. Fuel efficiency, automatically tunes mixture for lower quality fuel, air density. No choke.
C. ABS. In the old days I didn't need it but my reflexes have slowed down and the latest ABS systems are amazingly good.
D. LED headlights. There is no comparison, the very old bikes don't even have Halogen bulbs.
E. Watercooling. Warms up faster for better running. Gives you warning when the engine has overheated so you don't kill your oil, and few km later your engine.
F. Electric start.

I agree with you, it's gonna be a bike with such comforts as ABS/fuel injection/etc for me as well.

I had the opportunity last week to tour through Germany and during the riding I got stuck in the forest because the track was too muddy. I there and then decided that it's gonna be a light bike. I had to get help to get my bike of the mudtracks and well, it all worked out but I'd rather be self reliant the next time.

So I couldn't sleep and am still thinking about different bikes... What do you guys think of an XT660R? It's lighter than the Z, not that heavy (especially with an exhaust mod). It also has FI. I can't find that much about it, it looks like the XT660Z is a lot more popular. Is that only because of the slightly bigger tank + highway capability? Why isn't the XT660R a more popular bike?

CRF250L or CRF300L - reliable, low fuel consumption, relatively good spare part support everywhere, light, can easily carry all luggage load you need with a proper rack, - what else do you want?
Yes - it might not be that good for highways, but to be honest, how much highway cruising are you doing with a bike like that? Either your're using highways very often, then you're already looking at the wrong type of bike, or you mainly want to cruise on small roads with lots of offroad, then a Honda CRF is probably the best choice you can get.

@bosaapje Nothing wrong with the XT660R in my opinion. 15 litre tank compared to the 23 litre on the Z; but MUCH lighter. I rode with a guy on an XT R ( I was on a Z) through the 'stans and China many years ago. He strapped a 5 litre Jerry can on the back and was fine with range. He had an issue with his water pump seal (preventive maintenance?), but not a showstopper. His bike was eventually stolen in Oz; but got him to the UK to Australia without any major trauma. So, yes, good bike.

A water pump seal leakage sounds indeed like preventive maintenance. If I can find a good deal on one I think I would go for it. I'll have to put a bigger tank on it, change the exhaust, and do the traditional mods of peg changing etc but other than that it seems fine. Sure it's a bit heavy, but it's way easier (and cheaper) to find than a CRF300 Rally. Maybe I'll change my mind after a testride on both of them, but we'll see.


@Myrkskog: You're right, I won't be doing that much highway riding, but my feeling is that the XT660 will suit my riding style a bit more. As I already said above, I'm gonna test ride them both and see if I really like it as much as I think :innocent: