Chain Or Shaft!.
 

Good day to you all,



I'm planning a journey that will take from U.A.E to Thailand and hopefully down to Malaysia if time allows, the distance will be around 13 to 15 Thousand Kilometers one way as I'm planning on shipping the bike for the return journey ( Air Or Sea Whatever is cheaper) hopefully within the end of this year or the beginning of the next.


Today I opened the Motorcycle file ( Yes I don't have licence yet! ) and if everything goes well I should have it within this month, now on to the bike my main concern is can I depend on a chain driven bike like the KTM's and the 800 GS or do I have to go for a shaft driven bike such as the 1200 GS which which is BTW really expensive for my budget and I'd really have to save a lot in order to get and will push my schedule further which is something I don't want to do.


I've heard about the Yamaha Super Tenere 1200 and it looks like a good choice but it's impossible to find where i'm right now so I'm left with either the KTM or the BMW.


Bottom line is I just would like to know if a chain driven bike can make the journey safely or do I have to stop every 500 Kilometers and start cleaning, lubing and waxing the chain in the middle of the road in order to avoid damage, I've seen so many videos on YouTube about long distance journeys and they all show you the beauty of the scenery but non of them ( at least to my knowledge ) shows you the technical part of those journeys especially maintenance ( what to do and how to do it ), SO here I'm asking for your support and advice.



Below are links to local listings of few ADV Motorcycles that I've found Pls take a look at them advice.

Thank you all in advance.

:scooter:


https://dubai.dubizzle.com/motors/mo...MTM%3D&pos=324


https://dubai.dubizzle.com/motors/mo...g%3D%3D&pos=48


https://dubai.dubizzle.com/motors/mo...%3D%3D&pos=119

This old chestnut..

Chain and sprockets are by far the simplest. And simple is always better.

Any mechanic in the world can fix chain issues and they're cheap too.

A failed shaft and its gearing system will cost you a FORTUNE to fix and will most likely require special parts and a main dealer.

And can you guess what the biggest risk of failure is on a 1200 GS is ??

Yes, its rear wheel drive and shaft..

Yep, here's a couple of those old nuts - both are worth a read and you could even resurrect one or other if either of them raise questions in your mind.

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...in-drive-58262

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...ft-drive-32357

Your first post touches on a load of other matters concerning what to own and ride after passing a riding test, but there are loads of other threads in here on such issues.

:welcome: to the HUBB.

If on a "budget" ... why are you shopping for the most expensive motorcycles in the world? To answer your question:
Modern chains are incredibly reliable, very long lived, minimal maintenance.
For your short trip, either shaft or chain drive would be fine.

I prefer chain! Lighter weight, Less expensive, easy to change, allows gearing changes. Simple!

Beginning rider? Ridden before? The bikes you are looking at, IMO, are NOT Novice friendly. They all are EXPERT LEVEL BIKES, heavy duty ... and HEAVY!
Just lift one up off the ground! :nono:

If, on the other hand, you have experience riding (but not licensed?) then the big bike may be OK.:innocent:

I don't know what bikes are for sale in UAE, but I'm guessing there are more Japanese bikes available than just the Yamaha Tenere'. Look around, ask. Go to dealers. Sit on, test ride as many as you can.

If you've not ridden, first get some training. Vital.
Next, look at single cylinder, light weight dual sport machines. If you like BMW check out the F650, Sertao, X Challenge or X Country. (X bikes are discontinued) You will pay A LOT more for BMW and KTM. $$$$$$

Among Japanese single cylinder dual sport bikes, look for Honda XR650L or R,
Yamaha 660 Tenere' or XT600, Suzuki DR650SE, Kawasaki KLR650, KTM 640, 690, Husqvarna 501, CCM GP450, Suzuki DRZ400S.

All above or much lighter weight than than the big BMW R1200GS or F800GS or KTM 990.

The Kawasaki KLR is one of the most popular travel bikes being used in the world today. But once you're in Asia ... you'll see everyone is riding a 100 or 125cc bike. And for good reason .... :cool4:

So consider ALL BIKES. Look at the bikes riders are traveling on. And then figure out if you can pick up the bike once loaded with 40 kgs. of luggage/gear.
Can anyone fix it?

Think about service. Japanese bikes can be serviced mostly everywhere with thousands of dealers. BMW? KTM? Not so much.

bier

The friend I've just completed a 10,000 mile trip with across the US used a chain drive Triumph with about 20,000 miles already on the chain. He adjusted it once on the trip - and that because the Triumph dealer he had fit a new rear tyre on the way back messed up the adjustment when they replaced the wheel. My shaft drive Honda, on the other hand, didn't need adjusting even once.

Really, with decent parts it's a non issue. The days of tightening the chain every time you bought fuel are long gone. If you're starting out as a new rider I'd guess you won't be doing too much of the trip off road. If you are and you're looking at S10s and 1200GSs then I'd suggest chain or shaft shouldn't be your biggest concern.

You choose what bike you want it's your money, but for safety don't get the big 1200's you don't have the experience, I've rod bikes for years I've did long hard enduros on bmw gs's, I now ride xt 600 to do long adventures, much easier to get around great for the long off road parts loaded with your touring equipment, easy to work on, and you don't draw attention to yourself, bike expensive bikes do.

When I retired from the military I thought I would treat myself and I got a 1200GSA, Yes it was a nice bike and ok for riding main roads in Europe. But very big and heavy. I then traded it in for the 800GS, again a nice bike but still heavy, and a lot to handle unless you stick to decent roads. I then went off road bikes for 3 years and went off road, enduro and motocross. I now have an XT600E and it is great, although not as comfy or as fast as the BMW I much prefer it. I bought it to use for what it was intended (within my limits)so speed is not essential and for the seat i bought a seat pad which is working well at the moment (its getting a good test at the moment)

Wayne

When I read these threads from those just starting out, I am reminded of a quote from a twice round the world ''master'', Austin Vince, of Mondo Enduro fame, who said, and still says:- " on a long distance motorcycle trip you will only ever wish that your bike is smaller and lighter ''. Good advice. Not only will it be easier to use, you will save a considerable amount on running costs and repairs, and you will probably have a lot more fun in the process. Small modern chain driven bikes are incredibly reliable, especially well known Japanese makes. Extensive journeys have been made on them, like Simon Gandolfi who did the Americas on a Honda 125cc pizza delivery bike when he was in his 70's, and never had a moments problem and only changed the chain and sprockets twice. Myself, I don't do much off road anymore, and I admit to being a dyed in the wool BMW rider. My steed is a 2010 BMW 650 with the 800cc twin engine. It's light (190kg fully fuelled), very easy to ride and maintain with the chain drive and Scottoiler automatic chain oiler and is incredibly economical . I bought it second hand in 2012 and have travelled 41,000kms in three years without any problems, and only changed the chain and sprockets once.

Whatever , it's your choice, but don't be over ambitious, handling a big bike requires a good deal of background experience and practice.

All great replies...

Like always, the regular answer to this age old question of "What bike" by people who have 'Been there, done that and learnt the hard way' are almost always.


Simple
Lightweight
Easy to handle
Easy to repair
Cheap enough to write off if all goes wrong.


Try your hardest to see through all the hype and marketing of the big powerhouse companies like BMW, Touratech etc who are trying their best to convince you that you need to spend a small fortune on the latest models and all the gadgets, protection, aluminium boxes etc. Forget all these online videos are 1200CC 250KG monsters jumping over sand dunes. It's all complete BULLSH*T.

My advice for your kind of trip would be to buy something like a mid range single or twin cylinder bike which is sub 150KG and kit it out with basic and cheap equipment. It really is all your need and it will be much more fun and less stress.

Look at things like the XT600E, KLR650, XR650L, NX650 or even the BMW 650/800CC GS's if you want a bit more comfort. Or whatever is available in that category in Dubai.

The amount of people who return from long trips on the big, heavy and expensive bikes are usually always 'down grading' them for their next trips to smaller, lighter, simpler machines.

In retrospect, you very seldom hear of someone returning from a Round the world trip on a Japanese Single who goes looking for a 1200GS for their next one.

Save your money for fuel, excursions, flights and general good times.


bier

Isn't it weird how this coffee shop **** comes up again and again!


I've switched from a chain drive Triumph to a Shaft drive Guzzi. They are basically the same sort of medium power road bike. The Guzzi is lighter. The Guzzi however has three different fluids to change every 5000 miles to the Triumphs one, plus chain lube. Getting 80W150 bevel box oil in the depths of Huddersfield in bad, so isn't going to happen in places they put fruit in your beerwithout giving you a funny look. The Triumph got through four or five chains and had the clutch case opened once. The first chain was a total faff and needed an angle grinder and impact wrench to remove due to production stuff the factory did. As noted above tyre fitters and dealer technicians are aiming to sell you a new chain. I do however dread the week it will take to get at the clutch on the Guzzi when it goes.


It's all meaningless technical top trumps. Service either before you set off, know how to change the fluids and go. Personally I'd take the Guzzi for lightness and the huge petrol tank.


It was apparently different in the 1960's. I've had Enfields on industrial chain that would have made BMW splines seem a good idea. Boiling them up in whale blubber or whatever might have seemed a good idea at the time but this is half a century old metallurgy.


Andy

Dont take the BMW or you will end up like they did after i warned them too: Around the World Ed-Venn-ture, the next 800 days | Page 24 | Adventure Rider and Winkelendgetriebe mit 45000 km hin

There are so many better and alternatives alternatives out there such as Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki or Kawasaki. As a beginner i would not even think of bying a new bike, specially not the biggest and most expensive one you can get. There is nobody exept you who can repair these computers on wheeles in third world countrys. Also their loss of value isway bigger as if you take a used bike.

Rather buy a Honda Transalp, Yamaha Tenere 600, Suzuki DR 650 or Kawasaki KLR 650 for 1000 Dollars and spend the rest of your money to extend the trip.

Shiping bikes around the globe is a waste of money too. Rather sell it to another traveler or despose it at the boarder between two countrys and fly back home insted of spenging another 1000 bugs to ship the bike home.

I went 28.000km around Latin America with 125cc and 50.000km around Africa with a 700 Euro bike no problem: Motorrad Abenteuer Reise Transafrika 2 Jahre alleine durch Afrika

BMW R 1200GS and many other BMWs failed the 50.000 km tests all of the German Motorcycle Magazines while much cheaper Japanese Bikes pass them with great success:

http://www.tourenfahrer.de/index.php?id=639
Dauertest-Abschluss BMW R 1200 GS - Motorrad-Dauertests - MOTORRAD
Dauertest BMW R 1200 GS Getriebeschaden - Motorrad-Dauertests - MOTORRAD

Triumph Tiger Explorer: die große Enduro im Test - Motorradtests - MOTORRAD
Yamaha XT 1200 Z Super Ténéré: Reise-Enduro im Dauertest - Motorrad-Dauertests - MOTORRAD
50000-km-Dauertest Honda Crosstourer - Motorrad-Dauertests - MOTORRAD

This was also the conclusion of the consumer report
Consumer Reports: BMW & Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Are Less Reliable than Japanese OEMs

Spot on...

Shaft driven bikes have been all over the world without issues.

But I've been left in the middle of BFE with stripped splines.

Chain and sprockets are the only way I travel now.

Remember when you get to Asia your average speed will probably be 40-60kmh, so do you really need a 1200cc adventure bike ? are you planning on riding dirt roads or sticking to asphalt?

Id buy something used, Japanese, chain drive, a bit lighter, with carbs and a lot cheaper like these:

https://dubai.dubizzle.com/motors/mo...Q%3D%3D&pos=15

https://dubai.dubizzle.com/motors/mo...X19sdGU9&pos=1

Fit this with 18 + 21 in rims, comfy seat and a bigger tank:
https://dubai.dubizzle.com/motors/mo...x0ZT0%3D&pos=0

and Id even ride this beauty over a big 1200cc adventure bike anyday:
https://dubai.dubizzle.com/motors/mo...PQ%3D%3D&pos=2

Not all shafts are the same either. The small block Guzzi has a universal joint in the clutch end and the bevel box at the wheel end is fixed. The splines are only there to let you pull the shaft in and out. On a later BMW the bevel box moves to sort out some theoretical handling thing and the splines then work everyday getting torque down a shaft at different angles and lengths. Honda's seem more like the small block, large block Guzzis more like the BMW but I have no idea of what is inside. If you ever need to strip a small block bevel box though, you'll find it is shimmed to get the correct arrangement of gear clearances.

I never met a chain drive whose variations took up 7 lines.

MZ got it right, square hose round the chain to hold the grease in and crud out.

Andy

Bingo. That has to be the best solution all viewpoints considered (except maybe some say it is ´ugly´).

I am actually surprised, that no manufacturer has so far come up with an ´ADV bike´ with enclosed chain. Oh yeah, but they want to sell those chains more regularly... :rofl:

Thank You All...
 

My goodness i'm truly humbled by all of your comments and supportive replies.... what a way to welcome a novice into the HUBB.

I've red all of the replies and I understand now, Lighter, Nimble and most importantly Chain is much easier to handle and to fix as well, and it's a much better fit for me budget and experience wise.


I would like to thank all of you again for taking the time and going through my post and getting back to me with your advice and experience. bier


Thank You:

*Touring Ted*

Walkabout

mollydog

backofbeyond

Lowrider1263

Lonerider

Pongo

Threewheelbonnie

ta-rider

Danny Diego

Gipper

pecha72



:mchappy:

+1 here for the enclosed chain design. I favor the shaft but view it as a wear item just that it doesn't need such regular attention. I got fed up with chain when riding two up on an xt600 over twenty five years ago but hopefully chain technology has improved. Enclosed chain, there must be a reason why not used, perhaps not so good with long travel suspension?

Ok Everything had been told :thumbup1:
So I will just point
to train a lot , no matter you have the licence or the light bike ( of course it is better/cheaper more pleasant ) or the very-up-to-date stuff on it
That means
- ride as much as you can on different types of road, gravel : in wet conditions
- try to unfix a wheel , and fix the -famous- :freezing: chain in real conditions with the tools you have on your bike and so on .
-train yourself too except if you are already trained ( by your job, by sports, by anything ) it this case, carry on !
- find some buddies to ride with .
It will be a good experience, also to make the difference between riders ?c?doh

and go you own way by your own experience :funmeterno:

You've got it right!
It's nearly impossible to maintain the enclosure guard intact with any sort of long travel set up ... or when doing any sort of rough ground.

I assume you're old enough to remember back in the 50's and early 60's when quite a few bikes had enclosed chains. On bikes I had ... the first thing done was to tear off the entire enclosed chain guard system. They came loose anyway, or rattled, flew off, got tangled in chain. :thumbdown:

But there is a place for them. On short travel, small cc bikes doing mild urban riding, should be OK.

I believe you can see Indian and Chinese bikes today with enclosed chains. Perhaps the best early ones were made by Jawa. I had a Jawa 350 twin 2 stroke. Enclosed chain set up only needed periodic tightening up and a careful eye. With too much movement they all seem to self destruct. The Jawa one was really well made with rubber accordion fittings at each end. :D

Modern chains are HUGELY improved from the BAD OLD DAYS. The best DID X ring chains are quite amazing. Never needing adjustment ... and will even last well without oil or cleaning.

With decent care ... mine go past 25,000 miles: DR650, DL1000. A total swap (Best DID X ring chain, new sprockets) costs me about $300 and two hours of my labor. Done! bier
Is that too much to do for trouble free travel?

A chain always tells you where it's at wear wise. Easy to see any kinks or stretching or dryness or need for adjustment. All easily dealt with side of the road in 10 minutes. Wise riders see chain condition and plan ahead for a swap long before things get bad.
:scooter:

Also live in UAE, the DR650SE is available new here for 22,000 AED or less. Bought one myself and added a FEW parts from Procycle US. Shipping it to UK in a couple of months, although I have KTM1190 and Scrambler (and others) there will always be a DR in my garage for the solo trips.

I haven't had a chain bike for a long long time, but plan on an old model Africa twin or Transalp - what do long trippers do in terms of chain maintenance now?

I believe (from when I had a bike shop) that stiff links are the modern chains main enemy and therefor reason for needing maintenance or replacement, they also produce an annoying vibration on motorways as the stiff links pass the motor sprocket. This to me would imply that over and above lubrication some sort of cleaning to remove dirt and dust occasionally would keep things lasting as long as possible? I've heard of an old toothbrush and paraffin cleans without degreasing.

Would ALL long trippers use a scottoiler or similar as it may not always be possible to find aerosol chain lube (or chainsaw oil)?

Thanks for any incoming wisdom.

Start by going back, read this thread. :thumbup1:
Start with my post from above:

Sounds like you've not ridden since the 60's ...:innocent: when chains were removed for cleaning and dipped in Paraffin. doh Not how it's done now (hasn't been done this way since the advent of O ring chains in late 70's) We've now got X ring chains (DID chain) Game changing! bier

Vibration can come from a number of areas. Misalignment of chain, worn front sprocket (most common cause) or worn chain. Also, worn Cush Drive rubber dampers or even worn wheel/hubb bearings ... ALL can cause vibrations. Get everything right, put a bit of lube on your chain ... smooth!

The original Africa Twin used a 525 size O ring chain. This is a good thing ... 525 are very tough, long lasting chains ... but DO UPGRADE to a X ring chain. Buy the most expensive DID X ring you can find. Use quality OEM or JT sprockets.

Bring a spare front sprocket to be changed at 10K miles. This will extend chain life by 5K to 10K miles.

With even casual care, your new 525 X Ring chain/new sprockets will last over 20K miles ... or further. If riding in constant rain (UK) a Scott Oiler is a good idea. But do not use the Scott off road ... just makes a mess.

When on tour clean chain daily with WD40 or Kerosene. Just a quick one minute wipe down. (use your main stand) Easy. No fancy lubes required. In a pinch you can use 90W gear oil. Cheap and available worldwide. Excellent chain lube if a bit messy.

I use Dupont Teflon chain saver when close to home, but on the road, out of USA it's 90W for me. Done over 200K miles on X ring chains. Never a failure or problem. Use a RIVET link for master link, not clip type.

There is a TON of good knowledge on the Africa Twins. Use it to your advantage. No need to bring a spare chain on board, just a spare front sprocket. This should get you over 20K miles down the road. So plan for a complete change at that point.
bier