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Which bike, but with a twist, I hope.
There are hundreds such threads and no doubt some are groaning at the prospect of looking at the same question.
So hopefully this is a little different. I have 3 simple criteria and I have some ideas about which bikes fit the bill, but I am a bit out of touch with the market. I may use it for overlanding, I may not. I may venture off-road, I may not. I can say, I doubt I'll cross the sahara on it!! So I am looking into bikes that
Preferably over 125. That is it: what do you reckon? :scooter: |
I would think BMW. I don't have a lot of experience of very small bikes and some of these might be better still but I can say my G650 single delivers around that mileage, as do the earlier F650gs singles. The F800gs range get pretty close too but in my experience do not have the reliability you expect from them. Singles are probably more reliable in general and better for more all-round use, especially if you venture off-road.
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Yamaha XT660Z Tenere
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It's a good bike and I'm seriously considering one but it doesn't deliver 65mpg. Around the mid 40s is what can you expect and from my experience with the Yam 660 engine that sounds about right. The Tenere is a comfortable bike though. The details are a bit rough around the edges. Even dealers will tell you it's not built to last. Worse still the UK dealer network does not supply free coffee.
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How about a Kawa versys? I really like the looks of that bike and the engine is a peach, my mate has the road version the ER-6f and it's deceptively quick. I'm not sure about the mpg but it should be somewhere in the ballpark.
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XT660Z, £3-3.5K for a low milage one, you can get 60-65 mpg cruising at 65mph, very reliable (a few early ones had problems but only a few). Andy B
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Superbike wanted
Hi Warthog,
that's been discussed forwards and backwards and up and down many times. My contribution is only out of personal experience. Had Honda, BMW, Kawa and Yamaha's before. Ended up with a Suzi VStrom DL650. Very reliable, fast and agile, can go to places and roads where quite a few can't. Easy to lift her up,when things go wrong. Bought her 1 1/2 years old, 4000km on the clock for 7 grand $ AU. But took me a while to find her. So vey reasonably priced. Bought an airhawk cushion, very comfy to ride with, as well as a few more gadgets. Big tank gives you a range of 400 to 450km. Fuel consumption is, as long as I stick to the speed limit of 110 kmh, what I, just like all of us always do, app. 4.25 to 4.50 ltr. per 100 km. Always use only standard unleaded 92 oct.petrol. Sorry we don't work here in gallons any more. Lot's of members have ridden all over the world on these bikes, the HUBB is full of it. Take one for a test ride and do the same thing with all your favourites, than make a decision. Sure it will be the right one. Cheers Rusty |
Hi Warthog
Same as above i've had many bikes and they've all had their strong points but as an all rounder none of them can touch my DL650 Vstrom ,it does everything with ease and now I've put a custom gel seat on I can ride all day in total comfort .:thumbup1: |
Mornin' Warthog,
I must admit the DL650 V-Strom takes some beating. Very comfy, and economical. There are various models available already fitted with all the goodies like panniers, top box, hand guards and sump guard. I've owned the BMF F650GS and loved it, replaced it with an R1200GS, which turned out to be a lemon but have ridden several V-Stroms, and the later generation models are superb. Currently I ride an XT225 and it suits me to perfection but, if I wanted something bigger, quicker, road orientated, then the 650 'Strom would be at the top of my list. Regards Reggie |
IMHO you don't need a trail bike. Pick something road biased with the right tyre sizes and you can do all the above. Personally I'd suggest a Bonneville Scrambler. If you want more work and less cash involved lighly "Scramblerise" any basic Japanese 500, CB500, ER5 Etc. Much as you'll laught at me for running in reverse to our usual sparing on the subject, how about a Ural solo? You know the things, you have bits to hand, it meets all your needs except maybe the fuel consumption.
Andy |
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A rig struggles to break 40mpg, so a solo wouldn't be much better. Fuel may be thrid on the list but in reality I place those three criteria at an equal level. I'm even vaguely considering getting some sort of FI for my rig to improve the consumption as much as I can!! Otherwise, they'd be a laugh. I get your point on the road biased bikes. In fact, as good as all the other bikes listed are, I am surpirsed that they are all quite big! In my OP, none of it was written tongue in cheek: I meant it - any riding style (bar those listed) and any cc, even 125, although that is maybe bit small. And it certainly needn't be a new or current model, either! |
The Bonneville lugging the Ural chair turned in 40-45 mpg. Solo I've squeezed 70 mpg out of it. I don't think a Ural solo would achieve this difference as the Bonneville had the gearing changed via the front sprocket (or do they change the final drive?). 70 mpg involves a lot of motorway at 55 mph, so is pushing the point a bit.
FI needs to be a modern system. I had BMW R1100's that never differed my more than 1 MPG either side of 40 regardless of running light and solo at 50 mph or fully loaded with a chair at 100 mph. It was pointless trying to save fuel as the system defeated you. The Brick seems to be similar. The Bonnevilles with FI I've had as loaners and the Tenere I test rode were mapped differently and weren't as smooth, but I'll take the 60 mpg performance in exchange for a bit of lurching at low RPM and cold engine weediness. I think if you want FI you need to be specific about efficient FI. Andy |
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The one I was looking at was Megasquirt. Is it efficient? Who knows?! I don't... And I suspect the complete conversion would be more a case of Megabucks. Looking at that, it seems that I would still need to source injectors, mainfolds O2 sensor, pressure sensors etc!! (no doubt countless other bits) But how cool would that be? |
The V-strom is probably good enough if you're not planning any serious off-road use, same with the Versys and they do make a bit more power than a single. They do not deliver the fuel economy you're looking for so if that's a genuinely important criteria then you do need to look elsewhere. I have done the homework myself, I have owned Yam 660s, KLR, Vs, Parallel twins, etc, etc. No modern EFI bike other than the BMW singles and F range are capable of that and they only manage it because of some clever electronics. At a set rev-range they lean out so they burn the absolute minimum fuel. In practice I went to the isle of wight with a pillion and luggage on my G650 and did 240 miles for £15 which was often done at higher than legal speeds to make our crossing. No other bike I've ridden can manage that. My XT660 powered bike was less economical than my BMW R1200gs on a run but slightly better in town. It delivered 90 miles per £10 while my current BMW single delivered 140 miles to the same money at the same time. That was tested every fill up for around 6 months. My brother still rides an XT660 and still gets the same mileage although we no longer calculate by cash as it doesn't go far enough but by tank the BMW is far cheaper to run. To put things in perspective I get virtually the same mileage from my 9.5l tank as he does from 16litres. Worth mentioning that among the most economical big bikes I have had was a 99 Honda CBR900 Fireblade with dynojet kit, K&N, etc. That still made 70mpg unless I was brutal with it and the engine was a work of art. Not much good on the rough though.
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The Megasquirt looks programmable, the EFI equivalent of an AMAL and a thousand bits of brass and rubber. I don't see why it can't be set for economy, I just think more people will know how to get noise and horse power. Andy |
A Honda Transalp xl650 might suit you...although the mpg is about 50ish.
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Still seems low for an under-tuned twin. Shame, as it is otherwise a sterling bike: I love it!! |
I have a nearly 3 year old DL650 which gives me around 60MPG this is on Autobahns though it does drop a bit on back roads.
The V Strom is a great all round bike though I would recommend a fork brace as it transforms the handling. I got the GT version which came with hard panniers & top box but have since replaced all the luggage. Good luck with your choice & enjoy the ride. :scooter: Andy |
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I think if you really want something that sips fuel you'll have to downsize to 250 or less, like a WR250R, DR200SE. My 30 year old 100cc Honda step through get's very close to 150mpg, at about 60-70kph.:scooter: The hard aerodynamic facts are that a motorcycles and especially dual-sport bikes are very blunt instruments through the air. Honda here in Thailand for several years has been selling fuel injected 125cc bikes which get great fuel economy while being reasonably peppy. I think that's the way of the future, smaller will be more. People will just have to slow down a tad. Not too likely I know.doh |
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The truth is technology is improve yet bike MPG is getting lower...doh I know that my TA is not the worst, and agree that smaller cc may be the way forward for me.... still irks me that this is not being addressed by the manufacturers!! I could live with a 250, or a 500 EFI Enfield!! |
Bikes aren't designed for efficiency any more. They are principally designed for ease of manufacture, emissions and (in some cases) performance. There is a global push towards burning as much fuel as possible because the people in charge of the oil industry are also in charge of politics but that discussion is best kept to other forums.
Anyway, BMW makes a good effort to keep their bikes basically fuel efficient but they're still only now getting as good as bikes were 15 years ago with a well set-up carb. Smaller might be better, I don't have much experience with small bikes but I will say that in my experience small enduro machines tend to be competition oriented and economy is the last thing they're built for or they're really commuters in which case they're not much use off road. I have a soft spot for the MZ Bhagira 660. It uses the slightly older, carbed Yamaha lump and I've heard it's quite efficient in a tough chassis. I have not had one myself but it's a bike I've always fancied for that reason. Not having one myself I could be talking utter rubbish. As for smaller bikes, it depends where you are. Asian bikes built for the Asian market are quite different. In Thailand bikes tend to be 200cc or smaller due to tax laws so the small bikes are built much more efficient than the bikes we get in the west where they don't really expect us to buy them or care about them. In Japan 250cc bikes are very popular and 400cc is the cutoff for licensing laws. Again the smaller machines are more invested in there so they will be better than what we get here in the west. Maybe they are worth checking out? Grey imports are worth a look as they tend to use basically the same engines but with modifications so spares are usually not a big problem. I've had a few "grey" bikes over the years and had no real problem with them. They were also really good bikes. |
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4 years ago, when all new motorcycles sold in the EU had to comply with the Euro-3 emissions norm, this new regulation was about 60% tighter than the previous Euro-2. Emissions and fuel consumption are naturally always connected (though there are many variables at play). I bought a DL650K7 new in 2007, and it had, for example, new twin spark cylinder heads, as well as other modifications to the fuel injection and exhaust side. All aimed at burning the fuel more efficiently. And while the K6 model was not regarded as thirsty, actually there is, if not very significant, but still a clear improvement in fuel economy. All other Euro-3 bikes, that I´ve ridden far enough to calculate their consumption, seem to have gone the same way. With cars over here (and in many places in the EU, I believe) you have to pay taxes based on their emissions these days. And fuel in Europe costs serious money, too, as we all know. So making vehicles burn as much fuel as they can wouldn´t exactly help selling them. |
There are cars capable of 200mpg and yet we're riding motorcycles delivering 40mpg on average. Bikes are actually giving less mileage than cars in most cases.
The figures you quote are actually part of the problem. There is a skill in life in being able to view things as they really are instead of how you think they should be (or how you're told they are). Let's not hijack this thread. There are plenty of places to discuss this outside of a travel forum. |
If you take performance into account then there aren't any cars that beat motorcycles. Honda Insight (car) does 83 mpg - the best you can get in the UK. Performance is comparable to the Honda Innova bike which does about 114 mpg. To imply that you can buy a car from a dealership that delivers 200 mpg is a tad glib to say the least!
If you're ragging it a blade will give less than 20mpg and to get the same performance out of a car you need a seriously expensive piece of kit and will get less than 10mpg on a track. I very much doubt that the big eveil oil multinationals exert any sort of political pressure on vehicle manufacturers to make their engines use more petrol! Why would Japanese manufacturers be affected when Japan doesn't even have petroleum production capacity? To bring it back on topic - if economy is your number one concern get a 125 and pootle about. If going fast on tarmac is your number one concern then get a litre class superbike (that'll lose your license in 1st gear!), everything else is a compromise about where you want to be on the speed vs cost spectrum. There's a similar spectrum of speed vs comfort when it comes to road bias vs. off-road capability - where you want to sit on that spectrum is purely personal. Personally I want a bike that will do 200 mph on tarmac, weighs less than 15 kg is fantastic off-road and does 1,000,000 mpg so I only have to fill it up once in this lifetime! |
Although you've commented that you seem to be coming around to a smaller machine, capacity wise, my F800GS will do 60mpg no matter how hard I ride it!:thumbup1:
It's not the comfiest for distance in the long run, but I've replaced the seat and bought a larger screen; now touring is a dream, and no less fun! |
There have been cars capable of 200mpg but they don't make it into production which illustrates my point.
The BMW electronics have some clever stuff that makes them run lean. They are he most economical bikes in their class and don't sacrifice performance to do it. They have their faults but the engine management is second to none. The F800gs seat is awful after about 50 miles and the screen is too low. Sort that and it's a very nice touring bike. They do have issues though. |
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Indeed. Economy is important to me too and economy equals range which is very important also. You can't change the world but you can change yourself and travel does that. If you're interested look up "brown's gas". It's low grade hydrogen from water by electrolysis. It's not enough gas to power the bike (yet, although people claim to have achieved that) but it does possibly make a difference of around 10 to 20%. This technology requires catalysts so is not particularly efficient yet. It's fairly well proved and water kits are even available to buy on ebay. I would recommend doing your own research and experimenting carefully on a proven machine you are familiar with if this is something that interests you. My opinion, for what it's worth is this stuff is still not efficient enough for travel but it's interesting stuff to look into.
What I want is an LPG tank on my bike. It's not common in the UK yet but is much more so elsewhere. It's literally half price fuel although you lose a bit of performance and efficiency. I have an LPG car and this stuff works very nicely. On an enduro bike with a single exhaust you tend to have a natural gap the other side ideal for a pressurised tank of liquid gas. It wouldn't give massive range but it would save money and lots of it and offer redundancy while traveling. |
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