Big trip on XR400 & service interval concerns
 

Hello good people of the Bike forums!

I'm planning a UK to NZ trip starting in the latter half of next year, I think I'm leaning towards Russia - Stans - KKH - Myanmar - SE Asia - Aus - Nz as a route.

I currently blat about on a KTM 690 Supermoto, yes I love it but it's imminently going to be replaced by whatever bike I will do the trip on so I can get used to working on it and do all the preventative/set up stuff gradually without feeling rushed.

In terms of choice I just keep coming back to the XR400.

Reasons; air cooled, kick start, carb, very light, extremely reliable if treated right and there seems to be at least 1 or 2 buyable ones popping up online every week here in the UK. Cheap for a decent example also.

I'm comfortable with the 5 speed 400 single format, I rode all around Australia with a DRZ400E for 6 months on road and dirt so I know roughly what I'm in for in that respect.

My only slight concern is the very short oil and filter interval. a bit of poking around forums reveals that I can probably stretch it out to maximum of 2200km, similar to what I was doing with the DRZ. It was fine in Australia, seemed like whenever I needed one there was a Suzuki shop to sell me an oil filter, a crush washer, a couple of litres of oil and they'd let me use their drain pan in the carpark.

I'm betting it's not that simple in remote places like Central Asia. What do the guys with little dirt bikes do on RTW rides? Just carry a bag full of oil filters and bottles of oil strapped to the bike or is that stuff available anywhere?

Should I be considering a bike with longer intervals?

Any input would be appreciated. :scooter:

You should definetively bring some oil filters with you. Those can be hard if not impossible to find where you go. Oil I wouldnt worry too much about. Most of those countries youre going through are filled up with small motorbikes - and thus there are oil available. If youre uncertain on a strecth you can of course carry oil for the next change. In Kazakhstan I didnt see many bikes so that might be the place to carry some oil. Kyrgizstan there are bike garages in Bishkek for sure so not a problem there. Dont know about Uzbek and Tadjik though. From Pakistan and further - India, Myanmar etc - plenty of bikes there so oil shoudnt be a problem.

You just have to research the specific route youre going. Maybe carry oil for one shift - so that you feel a little safer.

Good luck!

As has been said motorcycle oil everywhere on your route and do carry a few spare filters. The service interval is short, the recommended interval on my XR125 is 4,000 km and that has no proper filter, I do it every 2,500 and would of thought the 400 would go longer, hopefully a 400 owner with more experience will be along to advise, a good choice by the way.

I have not overlanded on an XR400 so will defer to others on that, but i did put 20,000kms or so on two (first one got nicked).

The standard service interval is 1,000 kms so you would be stretching it out. I am sure you can stretch it a bit but there's not a lot of oil in there so i'd be cautious.

Plenty of other things to do too - the seat's a plank, brakes are terrible, lighting is beyond terrible (no battery). Great to ride in the dirt but i sold mine - i couldn't live with the lack of electric start and acceptable lights for the long distance trials i was doing, let alone for a big trip. It's more single minded than a DRz i think.




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Thanks for the responses everyone, so nice to have advice from people who have actually done this and aren't just guessing!

I always carry a 1L bottle for top ups, but I was just hoping that I wasn't going to have to lug around enough oil for like 2 changes, glad that I may have to occasionally carry an extra 2L but not very often, and I suppose not a big deal to keep 2/3 filters in a little corner of my tool box and buy them whenever I can.

I've noticed quite a few people who ride these bikes saying that the owner manual's recommendation of 600miles/1000kms is a conservative guide based on competition use with oil quality available in the mid 90s. The argument being that if you are thrumming along on a steady throttle and using much more durable modern oils, the bike shouldn't need such frequent changes but still important to keep an eye on the level and not let it get low. Don’t mind doing it more frequently if the oil is available but what’s your take on that?

Regarding the shortfalls of the bike, I’m thinking sheepskin on the plank, up rated stator and HID conversion (along with Reg/rec and capacitor for LED tail light, indicators and maybe 12v socket - if the uk bikes don’t already have that stuff), not sure about brakes, maybe sintered pads and braided lines? No E-start could be a pain occasionally, especially at altitude like Jmi points out, but the added simplicity and reduced weight is attractive.

I know I know, I’m trying to polish a turd and I should definitely buy an XT600E, but looking at photos of properly set up XRs there’s just something that makes me go...

http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pu..._evil_7487.gif

Never owned a XR, but out of curiosity are the filters,
a. All in one cartridge type, single use and dispose
b. Paper type "internals" inside a purpose made/designed part of the bike
c. Can you get a stainless steel re-cleanable insert in place of the type b?

(I have type c in my XT225 and it is easy enough to take it out and clean it when the oil is changed).

A few, random, thoughts:
It is not necessary to change/clean a filter every time the oil is changed.

It is not even necessary to change the oil as frequently as the book says, if it happens to be burning some in any case (as a single cyl can be prone to do) - gradually recycling the oil by topping up as required.

My XT225 contains a total of just 0.9 litre of oil so I keep a very close eye on the level - that is the key IMO.

Yep, lots of views about Enduro bike maintenance periods viz a viz use as a touring/travelling machine.
Is the XR400 considered to be an enduro, in it's day?

The bike takes type a, small disposable plastic cylinder with a fixed paper element.

I’ve always changed the filter with the oil every time, and my feeling is that if I’m doubling the recommended interval maybe I shouldn’t push my luck with further halving the filter change frequency, then again if I did what you say 3 or 4 paper filters is about 15,000km worth which would be awesome.

I did research the stainless filter idea for the DRZ, it seems to be a subject that divides opinion, I concluded that it would probably be alright but buying $5 paper filters was no real inconvenience for 100% certainty that my oil was being filtered properly. Looks like you can get them for the XR, might be worth investigating further.

Yeah in its day the XR400R was an enduro machine, when it started to struggle against the lighter DOHC liquid cooled competitors Honda brought out the CRF range to replace it. Obviously by today’s 105kg 50hp standards it looks more like a farm bike but still more performance than I dare fully use off road!

Thanks!
OTOH (there is always one of them) to the stainless steel filter argument, there are the anecdotes about paper filters falling apart with attendant bits of paper entering the oil ways.
Changing the filter every 1000Km, using high quality,"genuine", paper based filters, would provide peace of mind.

On balance, I tend to accept the argument that modern oils are far more capable than when the handbooks were written for 1990's bikes combined with the lack of "punishing" race conditions involved in travel use - all else being equal; excessive water crossings for instance.

Big trip on XR400 & service interval concerns
 

I'm no tech but that sounds reasonable

Ive heard of others doing these upgrades - uk bikes have nothing - kick start, 35w headlight light, kick start. No ignition key or any aux power.

I recon braided lines would help.

Can be a real pig to start but ok once you know how and run it regularly. When you drop it use the decompressor or you'll be there all day

Fair enough - if it was just about being comfy we'd all take 4 wheels or stay at home!


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Your research is correct. :thumbup1: Originally the XR400 was a race bike (believe it or not!) It was raced in the Baja 1000 and Enduro events everywhere. It's race career was short lived ... but those oil change intervals are very conservative and were strictly set up for RACE bikes. So no doubt you can extend those intervals. Also, remember the XR400 has an OIL Cooler built in ... a big plus!

Plus, what you say about modern synthetic oils will also be a big factor. When I owned my XR400 not many riders used synthetic all the time. I used Semi-synthetic in my XR400. Now, synthetic oil is common. I'm sure you could easily go 3000 km. or MORE if taking it easy. Use FULL SYNTHETIC oil whenever possible. DO NOT used "energy saver" synthetic car oil ... it will cause your clutch to slip. But certain synthetic car oils are OK ... but be sure.

If running all day in deep sand, that's a different story. :helpsmilie:

All good but I don't think a Sheepskin cover will get you far when riding 10 hour days. Go for a real custom seat. HID is way to go, cheap and effective.

My XR400 had a Baja Designs lighting kit making it road legal. It used a small Ni-Cad battery. Worked great. But longest I ever rode my XR400 was on a Baja ride ... only 1500 miles over two weeks. FUN!

Now, I would recommend some sort of Li-Iron battery to supplement lighting and running accessories. Upgrading stator is a good idea to improve charging of Li-Iron battery and keeping everything bright and healthy. Li-Iron are amazing. Light, small, powerful.

Brakes are fine for your purpose.
Starting is only hard once bike is on it's side. Use decamp lever, kick it through 20 times with throttle WIDE OPEN/decomp held to clear out fuel. WORK! doh

Cold start is easy ... if you follow drill. Turn up idle, kick through gently with decamp IN, 5 times. Now, full choke, NO throttle, TDC and KICK!

It's always HOT starting that is the hard one once the bike has tipped over.

You can buy Stainless re-useable filters for the XR ... try Scott's.
Scotts Performance Products

NOTE type of filter and where it's located ... it's like a hundred other bikes.
Little paper filter, 5 minute change. (every other oil change)

https://patricksphotos.smugmug.com/p.../i-qjLTtN8.jpg

https://patricksphotos.smugmug.com/p.../i-NZ6TnX5.jpg

Big trip on XR400 & service interval concerns
 

As always good info from Mollydog.

Only afterthought from me is that the oil filter cover bolts are not strong - the long one (rhs) easily shears - need to take side case off to get it out if it does. I changed these bolts every second oil filter change.l since this was a PITA.

Don't ask me how i know, suffice to say i now double check whether i i have set the torque wrench to lb/ft or Nms before starting....


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I've not owned a 400 but I've had a 600 for a long time and most of the comments seem very (almost painfully) familiar.

The seat isn't really designed to be sat on. It's something just to park your backside on in between standing sessions. On its own I recon you get about half an hour before it feels uncomfortable and about two hours max before you feel like you're being split in half. A sheepskin isn't going to increase that by much. I once did a 2000 mile winter Eurotrip with the original seat and I can still feel the pain now. :rofl:

The electrics are really rudimentary and lack of a proper battery with its ability to power tent lights, charge phones etc does become a real niggle after a while. There are ways round this - I diy'd a small 12v battery + regulator into the std generator but it's never going to be as good / reliable as a factory fit. The std generator was good enough to power the lights or my electrically heated jacket but not both at the same time. The lights themselves were close to useless, even when I managed to upgrade them to a 55w halogen bulb. Again, not impossible to fix but another area of expensive aftermarket substitution that only deals with half the problem (no lights with the engine off).

The 400 might cope with it better but the "reliability" of kickstarting isn't all it might be. The kickstart lever itself isn't the best bit of design Honda ever came up with and wears (and then snaps) around the pivot. I've had three of those levers and two have shown significant wear. I got thoroughly tired of routinely kickstarting the bike - especially as it has a tendency to stall at lights, road junctions etc. It would idle for ages and then stall the second you put it into gear.

Touring oil life is much longer than the minuscule mileages quoted. I've always worked on a 3000 mile interval and would be happy to extend that with a decent bike friendly synthetic. My rule of thumb has been to change it sooner if it's been ridden hard enough to use oil (high revs, hot temps etc). At normal speeds on open roads it doesn't use much at all between changes. A filter every second change and, as has been said, careful with the filter cover bolts.

Having used the 600 as a travel bike for many years I wouldn't go down the 400 route for a long trip these days as there are better options around, but equally there are worse ones. If you can get a decent one cheap enough and are happy to put the effort into overcoming its shortcomings (the subframe for example) then it it could do the job (= damning with faint praise) :rofl:

So if I was eeking out 3000km between changes with very easygoing riding, would you say that it’s still ok to change the paper filter every other job? So every 6,000km?

Are the stainless ones any good? Easy to clean properly in a field with a head torch at night and no compressed air blower or bowl of mineral turps etc?

I think that must be pretty common across a lot of bikes for those to be made of cheese - with the three filter cap bolts on the Suzuki I could only nip them up a quarter turn past finger tight before it felt like too much.

Thanks for your comments, I reckon experience with the 600R is definitely relevant to the 400R and I welcome discussions about irritating and problematic aspects of the bike, I’m not here looking for pats on the back about what a brilliant choice I’m about to make!

Having done some quick googling, looks like there are 2 or 3 options for nice squishy looking seats for about £100 delivered that will just bolt on, probably worth looking at that.

I’m in the middle of researching the electrical system. As a minimum I’d like to power a HID headlight, indicators, tail/brake light and a 12v auxiliary power supply to charge my phone on the move OR use my small air compressor with the bike running, and if I can find the wattage maybe heated grips but that might be a luxury I’ll have to do without. I have no need for power with the bike off, I tend to cope fine with an LED head torch. It can definitely be done, I don’t mind figuring things out and effectively building the system myself without buying an expensive aftermarket loom. Fully understanding the electrical system on my bike can’t be a bad thing when I’m on the move. In that sense the more rudimentary it is the better, as long as it’s tough.

Regarding the reliability of the kickstarter, do you know of any preventative fixes to toughen it up? I’m not expecting an XR to be unbreakable, in fact my choice is somewhat based on the “anything that can go wrong, will go wrong” principle and I feel that an air cooled kick-start Honda gives me the best chance of understanding a problem and putting it right myself, I’m not the cleverest bloke. Also there is waaaay more choice for 400Rs on eBay and Gumtree, it’s very rare that a 600R or a 650L comes up, and when one does it tends to look like it’s been at the bottom of a pond for 3 years. Would be nice to have a lighter bike if I stop somewhere for a while and get to do some trail riding with people too.

Amen to that.

I guess I use a stainless filter because it was on the bike when I got it.
There are many, many views about the pros and cons - lots in the HUBB from memory.
I just back-rinse it in a bit of petrol when it is off.


If you do opt for paper then it is probably best to use OEM and certainly avoid cheap copies from unknown manufacturers with toilet paper innards.

Spot on! They even mention this issue on the thousands of thread over on Thumper Talk ... in particular when using the Scott's Stainless filter. So beware,
those filter cover bolts will SNAP right off with little provocation. Solution?
I Loc Tite fasteners ... or you can insert stronger studs and use nuts to secure cover. :D

YES! And if using a stainless re-usable, make sure to clean it really well. PLAN your oil/filter changes so you have somewhere proper to work. Gasoline is fine as flush/cleaner medium ... just do it OUTSIDE!

Scott's claim their filter is BETTER than stock paper element. I DOUBT THIS ... but I think it's "good enough" in any case, lots of riders have used them for ages.

Be very careful with seat choice. Seat needs to be WIDER than standard, use quality foam, should be FIRM not soft. But WIDTH is really the key. Think "Horse Saddle".

The electrical conversion will be the toughest thing to get right. HID use only about 35W. You'll need to tie into charging system to keep batt. UP and add fuse protection and find suitable place to mount battery. See Baja Designs for ideas and DIY solutions ... or check out the XR400 forums on Thumper Talk or elsewhere.

Good luck! bier

Well based on your reply I am going to absolutely take the stainless filter idea seriously. If I can clean it with a little cup of petrol, that does seem realistic.

I've never been precious about seats, quite like the thought of being more comfortable but is it that much worse than a stock DRZ400E seat? Never found that to be a problem on long trips.

Using a a 200w stator, do you think I could get away with my requirements with just a capacitor to smooth out the current rather than a battery? Looked at the LI batteries and even they are about 9-10KG which is an enormous chunk of weight.

The XR seat is probably better ... but no good for me on truly long rides.
You'll need to do further research on batteries and setting up a batt on the XR400. But you're WAY OFF on LI specs:
LFX14A2-BS12 - Shorai Lithium Batteries
Note Weight! doh Now ... note size! compared to normal battery.

Yes, you could get away with no battery ... but would be nice to run heated grips, super bright lights and such. But dig into it ... see what best course of action is!

Holyyyyyyy frigg, that's so light, would almost be rude not to chuck it in there. No idea what LI battery I was looking at but it must have been a beast! Cheers! For ultra technical electrical headaches I'll probably take it elsewhere, the 'Which Bike?' forum is surely not the place. If someone reading this who has similar plans for an XR wants to combine brains just give me a shout. Thanks so much for everyone's help so far!!

Hi Cwac -

I still have my XR400R that I bought new in 2003, and after 48,000 miles on it, hopefully I can give you some pointers...

As you may (or may not) be aware, there are two version of the XR400 available in the UK - the 'Euro' version that came with a larger glass headlight with hi/low beam, speedo, and a combined AC/DC electrics (AC for the headlight, DC for the brake light and indicators) - although as other have pointed out, there was no battery on this bike, just a regulator/rectifier that provided DC once the engine was running.

The other kind was the 'Enduro' version (effectively the US model) that only had a smaller single beam headlight and a tail light - although this could be wired to provide a brake light too (using a hydraulic brake light switch on one or both of the master cylinders) as it has the same tail lamp unit & bulb... This bike was AC only, although again it was also easy enough to fit a regulator/rectifier and a capacitor to provide DC when the engine was running (to power a GPS etc. and smooth out the feed to the lights).

I bought the Enduro model, and did those mods - hydraulic switches for front and rear brakes, and a small reg/reg from Electrix with a capacitor to power my GPS, keeping things pretty much as simple as possible electrically, which is something I would recommend if you are prepping this bike for a trip...

As you've ascertained, the XR400 is about as strong and simple a bike as you can get, and I would recommend you try and keep it that way - especially electrically, since traditionally it is electrical add-ons that end up causing the most grief on a travel bike.

Personally I wouldn't bother with an HID conversion - it's unnecessarily complex and bulky, and I don't imagine you'll be doing all that much night riding anyway (after all, it's not really recommended, especially in countries where animals roam free). Instead I would fit a pair of LED lights - for example, the Vision-X Solstice lamps I have on my bike now only draw 10w each, and provide 900 lumens each, with a flood (for low) and spot (for high) beam.

http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/r...sxevbsmak.jpeg

Being just 2" square, they also fit inside the OEM headlight mask (the smaller Enduro version) really neatly, and I used the original plastic lens as a stone guard.

Using a pair of these (or similar) immediately saves you 15w of stator power over the standard 35w headlight, even on full beam - and if you also replace the brake/tail-light bulb with a LED version you'll save even more, which means that you won't even need to change/rewind the stator if all you need to run is a GPS and a 5w charging socket for a phone etc.

If you do want a bit of battery power (to keep the lights on, or the phone charging when the engine isn't running) then I can recommend the small battery that Baja Designs make:

http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/r...sw8yb7kgo.jpeg

It's as if it was made specifically for the recess in the top of the XR400 air-box!

I've fitted this battery as part of my most recent modifications, so I can still run my rally navigation gear without the engine on.

You basically wire it in instead of the capacitor, but be aware you'll need to include an in-line diode to stop any back-flow (discharging) back into the stator, and of course a switch between the battery and the rest of the wiring loom to turn the lights etc. on and off.

This is all straight forward to do, with the minimum additional wiring, which I'd suggest is the key to reducing potential issues once on your trip.

As for oil changes - I typically change mine around 1500 miles (2500kms) at trail-riding pace, and change the filters each time. The Hi-flo ones are fine.

As others have suggested, keep a daily eye on your oil level - especially if you've bee running at high speeds for long periods. My bike did eventually start to use oil after about 35,000 miles... and I had the engine rebuilt earlier this year with a new piston and rings, and the valves reseated and new seals, and it's like new again.

The XR is a keeper ;o)

Hope that helps...

Jenny xx

Wow thank you! Very useful info, seems like the Euro model would be the least hassle, and maybe as you say I should keep my amateur electrical meddling to a minimum. I could just make sure the current loom is solid with good waterproofed crimps and connectors, throw on some indicators, swap to LEDs, add a 12v socket and leave it at that. Glad to hear about a 400R with that sort of mileage on it.

Also happy to read that the top end refresh made a big difference. Obviously I’ll be buying the cleanest bike I can find but I’ve been considering not worrying too much about mileage within reason and doing a rebuild as a matter of course before the trip regardless of anything. Both as practice with carrying out bigger jobs on the bike myself and for the peace of mind that the motor is in good shape when I leave.

Any advice on upgrading suspension? Would you say the stock equipment is adequate for a 95-100kg kitted up rider and a fairly lightweight luggage setup? I’m not going to be riding flat out but I’ll occasionally want to make progress on dirt.

Thanks!!

Hi Cwac - yes, a Euro model (most likely the one you'd find in the UK anyway, as there weren't many US versions sold here) is the most stright-forward option, as all the wiring is in place - including for indicators I believe. Swap out as many bulbs as you can for LEDs (to save power draw) and fit a 12v socket to the rectified side of the stator output* for your GPS, and you'd be good to go - that is how I ran my bike for years before ultimately fitting the battery.

*If you are not running a battery, then make sure there is some sort of capacitor on the output side of the reg/reg, to smooth out the current flow and provide a buffer - as GPS and LEDs can be sensitive to current fluctuations.

As for the suspension - as you are probably aware, the XR was originally designed as a competition enduro bike (before the world went all 21st century with water cooling, alloy frames and USD forks!), and the XR forks in general (on the 400 and particularly the 46mm version on the XR650R) are renowned as some of the plushest conventional forks available - there really isn't anything you need to change suspension wise on the XR400 for travel and overland duty.

Fresh oil and fork seals is the only prep you might need to consider, while at the rear as long as the shock isn't leaking, it will be more than adequate.

If you've not seen it yet, you might want to check out Austin Vince's latest film: Mondo Sahara. They used XR400s to travel into the Sahara and back, and they were nigh-on unbreakable (well, apart from Austin's predicament, but then I understand he bought a bit of a nail at the last minute)...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jz6CmOpHG40

Good luck hunting for a nice clean example to prep, and I'm sure you will have a lot of fun on it!

Jx

I'm sure those LED lamps work good but a standard HID kit from DDM Tuning
is cheap (about $25 USD) very compact and puts out 3400 lumens. Super easy install. (I've installed three of these kits on various bikes)

Fantastic performance, 3 times brighter than my standard 55W H-4 bulb. Life time warranty. Plug and Play on most bikes and very easy to swap back to standard H-4 bulb if needed. Not bulky, Ballast and Ignitor can go nearly anywhere.
Check it out:
DDM Tuning: HID and LED Lighting

My XR400 (1997 model) had Baja Designs street legal kit installed before I bought it 2nd hand. Used the same Ni-Cad battery 5 pack as shown above. It worked well but Ni-Cads are a bit expensive and DO NOT last forever.

There are very small Lith Iron batteries out there, prices are coming down fast.
If you can fit it, could be OK!

But space is tight on the XR, so the Ni-Cad Baja Designs 5 pack is still a good option:thumbup1: ... but AH output is not much and will discharge fairly quickly if not being charged by your Stator. No real reserve.

Overall the XR400 is a great bike. As J-mo says, suspension is pretty good. But since it's a "plush" enduro style bike, you may have TOO MUCH sag on rear shock once loaded. Bike was spec'd for a 140 lb. rider. (plus minus a few kgs.)

Check this out, I'm betting fitting a slightly stiffer shock spring will be required to keep the bike riding HIGH in the travel when loaded. The forks are fine. Leave fork seals alone if not leaking but always carry a spare set with you.
Fresh fork oil, cleaning as part of prep!

The XR has a TON of potential if set up right. I once rode a fully tricked out XR400 with a 440 kit and full Ohlins front and rear. I hopped off my fairly standard XR400 and onto the "trick" XR ... my bike felt like a Donkey Cart by comparison! :rofl:

Especially the suspension! You could blast straight into a rock field and not even notice! Bike tracked dead straight ... and a TON more power as well. Sadly, that kitted 440 motor blew up after one race season ... so I would stay with standard motor.

Doing a top end rebuild is a good idea IMO. Use genuine HONDA parts and make sure the Mech knows his onions. So many screw up these simple rebuilds. Get someone really good and careful!

bier

very interesting post ! :thumbup1:
I had seen also a XR with the team leader ...
Can you give me your advice MDog : matching the XR and the DRZ/S from two points
- suspensions
- servicing : frequency and easyness
in stock conditions
thanks anyway

I used both my XR400 and DRZ400E mostly for trail riding. The E is better Off Road than the road legal S model, but the S model will make a better travel bike, IMHO.

The most obvious advantage of the DRZ400S (or E) over the XR400 is the electric start. For trail riding in technical woods here in Nor Cal, the elec. start was nice to have when stuck on a hill or in a rut. :mchappy:

I took my XR and DRZ-E to Baja. We rode 1400 miles, (700 off road, 700 On road) I prefer the XR400 on highway. But Off road the DRZ400E is better everywhere if you compare Standard Bike to Standard Bike. Of course, both bikes are better with the correct modifications. Remember, the DRZ400E is a VERY different bike from the DRZ400S. (E not road legal in USA)

The S model I've ridden but not owned. Several friends owned them and I made several LONG Baja and other long rides with friends riding the S model. It's a great bike but as I said, the E model is better off road, the S model better ON paved roads.

The S model has a "real" charging" system and can carry some luggage with an actual rear sub frame the E does not have.
These things also put the DRZ400S at an advantage over the XR400.

But the XR is a simpler bike, no radiator or water pump or hoses to worry about breaking in a crash. If you have to kick start the XR400 20 times a day, it can become tiresome. But for travel, you should not have to kick over too many times ... and if you know "the way", it's not hard to start unless it's been laying on it's side after a fall.

Both are a bit heavy and cumbersome in technical conditions ... after I sold my DRZ400E, I bought a WR250F for off road. (not road legal in USA). Light weight and Fun. Much better!

But in Baja when riding 250 kms. in a day, I prefer the XR or DRZ over WR250F.

Either DRZ or XR will make a good travel bike ... but IMO, if I had to choose, I'd pick the DRZ400S over the XR400. But not much in it, both are great bikes and both can be made into very good travel bikes ... almost as good as my DR650! (a GREAT travel bike!)

https://patricksphotos.smugmug.com/p.../i-G3nbv8n.jpg
My favorite XR! ... XR250
https://patricksphotos.smugmug.com/p...Gb4FGSC-XL.jpg
DRZ400S in Baja ... nearly all standard bike. 2000 miles on this trip, mostly off road.

Thank for the very clear answer . :thumbup1:
The "E" in not street legal in France either, but some had been registered under the name of " RSR" . Very complicated ! :oops2: and there also "false " E made with parts of S and rough job !!!
I was thinking the same thing about the starter, being able to make the difference with my old XT mchappy: and some hot days ; no way to start iti after a fall . :oops2:

I will say if you make a trip more than one time servicing or two, it is better to take and "old style " bike like a dr, xr, Xt or whatever .
I have already another bike : B3 MV( a real road bike but exclusive ) so no way to take a pegaso more doh
will be nice for long roads ! and engine is quite good too
this baja must be really nice to ride .

If you will be carrying luggage you should consider strengthening the subframe. Especially if you will be doing offroad a lot. The subframe is not designed for heavy luggage and is prone to braking. I did "triangulate" my '99 XR4's subframe with some lightweight aluminum profiles. Prior to that I had to repair my subframe two times. But I do not overland my bike, it is a dual sport bike and gets ridden quite hard off road with some luggage.

If you go for the XR4, keep a close eye on the oil level. High-ish rpm runs on the blacktop are fine, but the bike can burn quite a lot of oil.

The air-hawk seat pillow is just great. But I would not want to spend 10 hours on my XR4, it is not that comfortable, air-hawk or not. The XR4 is a dirtbike, tall, lightweight, thin. Not really comfortable for long days in the saddle.

Reliability and ease of maintenance is great. I have 30-40K km on my bike and it has not had a easy life. It has proven extremely reliable. The bike is very simple, repairs are easy.

The breaks are fine, the stock headlight is not. I have the EURO model so I have both AC and DC. I run a extra 30W LED light from the DC circuit on my XR4. I did have to change the rear bulb to led for that to work, and do something more, don't remember now. But I can find out if that helps.

I just bought a bike!!

A nice '98 XR600R with 2,600 miles on it came up about 30 minutes drive from my house. It has the original Honda handlebars & grips, even has the original front tyre on it from new. It has a headlight taken from an XR250 Baja fitted by the guy I bought it from, who gave me the original headlight along with the immaculate original tubular sump guard which he replaced with a proper one. The bike runs beautifully, engine is quiet, nice crackle from the standard exhaust without the baffle, fueling is crisp and the gearbox precise.

Just rode it home in the pitch darkness and driving rain. The lights are actually very good, left for dipped, right for main beam. Even managed to start it first time when I stopped for fuel! The seat is crazily comfy, I might throw a sheepy on there but it's like a sofa compared to the DRZ. I haven't given her a name yet, but behold my new (to me) machine!

http://s24.postimg.org/o41d7m6lh/image.jpg

http://s28.postimg.org/bfmdk3x2l/image.jpg

Only mods I can think of doing are maybe some of those Gold Emulator cartridges for the forks, risers & Renthal bars, Acerbis 22L tank and 12v aux power supply.

Might also throw on a fresh set of tyres for good measure because 18 year old stock rubber didn't fill me with confidence through slick roundabouts and standing water if I'm being completely open.

Wowzers, what a beaut! I think you got yersef a Virgin there mate, good Score! bier (original front tire??)

If carrying luggage I do agree with suggestion to strengthen the sub frame ... but don't go crazy, find a really good fabricator who knows the meaning of conservative improvement. :thumbup1:

Also agree about oil use ... every XR/XL Honda I've owned (going back a LONG TIME) has used oil when run at high-ish RPM. XL600, XR600, XR400, XR650L, and my fav ... XR250. ALL used some oil run fast on highway. But just cruising and medium to light off road it won't use much at all.

The XR600 is a great bike. Use the best synthetic oil you can afford, change out when you can .... and RIDE RIDE RIDE! :scooter:

Its a beauty you got there Cwac! :mchappy:

Thanks! Yeah it seems like a good one, having taken the tank off it's definitely been off road but not hard and not far. Fingers crossed! bier

There is a local engineer that we use through work for fabrication & welding jobs. I might ask him what he could do to strengthen the subframe without lumping on too much weight next time I spot him.

I'm so happy I went for the 600, for me it's still going to be more than good enough off road, but it seems quite relaxed at 60 - 70mph which is exactly what I wanted. Might need to start going to the gym 5 times a week if I wanna hit any serious trails though!!

I've had one issue so far when I stopped on the way to work to pick up some food for the day. I failed to kick it back into life so I primed it on decomp, tried again, and again, then I noticed fuel pouring out of the carb overflow!!! Pushed it the rest of the way to work with the fuel tap off and it turned out to be a sticky float needle! Sorted now.

I did initially notice a slight oily smell and very faint smoke from the silencer until it warmed up a bit, but I didn't notice it happening the last cold start or two; running in the garage from cold today I could hardly smell a thing. I'm guessing the valves needed a run to re-seat after sitting around for years? Might need stem seals before I take her further afield but that will be no trouble, might be good to take the head off for an inspection and a refresh regardless. Just gonna keep a hawk eye on the oil level for now.

I'm properly over the moon with this bike! :D

Nice looking bike - a lot better nick than mine!

Re the subframe, what I did with mine was -

1. Reweld the "eyes" at the end of the subframe where the mudguard is attached. Honda only spot weld them and they didn't look like they'd take much weight to me.

2. I ran a separate rail under the top rail of the subframe, fixed at the front end to the rear seat mounting bolts and at the rear to a 2" drop link bolted the "eyes". The rack mounting brackets were fixed to this rail rather than to the original tubes.

I then ran an extra tube from the new rail to near where the existing frame tubes join down by the footrests. Awkward to do on the exhaust side but easy on the other side.

3. I welded in "gussets" top and bottom on the existing subframe tubes.

4. I made up a bolt on cross piece to go behind the wheel to cut down on side to side movement.


As my bike was somewhat battered when I started, the mess that welding makes of the paintwork didn't bother me that much. With your pristine looking one you may think differently though. However better that than the whole thing collapsing in the middle nowhere. I've had that happen twice in my biking career and although it didn't cause any major problems either time it could have had it happened in more remote areas. Whether by accident or design the mods I outlined above worked well enough for me not to have any luggage issues. Of course I may not have any if I'd just piled the luggage on the unmodified bike but at least the construction work made me feel like I was doing something :rofl:

Sadly I don't have any pics of my set-up (and I've taken it to bits since). I think if I was doing it again I'd seriously consider cutting the existing subframe off and making up a more substantial one from scratch using larger diameter tubing with triangulation and mounting points built into the design. Short of doing that you could do a lot worse than have a close look at how the subframe on this BMW was modified -


http://www.adventurebikerider.com/fo...-fettish-.html

Great info, thanks! My luggage will be light and split between hopefully nothing more than tank panniers and a Giant Loop Cayote so I was initially thinking of avoiding this job, but the thought of the back of my bike falling off in the middle of nowhere is not a happy thought so probably worth a little effort.

If you're travelling light you may not have to do that much to the bike but the temptation to take stuff "just in case" can soon add up. This is what ended up piled on mine and what the mods I outlined above had to cope with -


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r...Africa0095.jpg

Way way too much and bits were scattered here and there as I came to my senses.