Vietnam-Thailand-Laos-Cambodia 2011
 

Hi folks!

We are planning a two months tour for this summer, what i would like to see is:

Vietnam
Laos
Cambodia
Thailand

the period will be from 20-25 july till the end of september, beginning of october. Right now my biggest concern is the weather, it seems really not the best moment but unfortunately is the only period where i can take a break from the university!

If anyone have some tips and info to share, interesting places to see, nice things to do.. whatever!.. that would be great!bier

cheers
Sil

What mode of transport were you planning to take?

Hi Sil!

If you plan going by bike, you cannot enter Vietnam with a big bike. I thought >250 cc is not allowed. You can also think a renting a bike in each country, very easy everywhere randomly available. For Thailand tips have a look at GT-rider or rideasia.net
We went to Chiang Mai and rode the Mae Hon Song Loop and further down along the Burmese border. Great ride! Lots of interesting places to stop and over a few thousands (hairpin)bends and beautiful scenery. In cambodja its great offroading, where you'll be immediately off the beaten track. Laos we had to skip as for time constraints unfortunately.
We got some ideas for Cambodia route from a rental website, its in Dutch but you'll get an idea, have a look.
Cambodja Avonturen Motorreis - Motor Trails - Avontuurlijke Motorreizen

Have fun planning, if you want to know more pm me

greetz Els
Two for the Road
Amsterdam- Tasmania

the idea is buy a bike and sell it in the end of the trip. Do you know if some extra documents (like CDP) are needed if you buy a bike, let's say in Vietnam and then you want to move to the other states? (or vice-versa)

Since you can not enter in Vietnam with a bigger bike then 250cc maybe is possible to buy a bigger one there and then ride out (I'm not fun of big heavy bike anyway but since we are 2 i was thinking to something like 400cc (xr, dr ecc) is it possible to find them down there?

thanks a lot!..
cheers
Sil:scooter:

It seems bikes registered in Vietnam are able to get out of Vietnam, and also return there. And no other bikes are allowed to enter Vietnam (and there´s no cc limit, it´s just a net rumour)... UNLESS you do arrange kinda similar as China, and that costs (a lot!!)

So, buying from Vietnam, you should be able to tour all 4 of these countries, but buying from Thailand, Cambodia or Laos should get you into those 3, but not into Vietnam.

And maybe you can add Malaysia into that list as well, because while officially requiring the carnet, seemed relaxed about it.

You problem might be the quality of used bikes available in Vietnam... probably a much better selection in Thailand.

I recently bought a Minsk in Hanoi and rode through all these countries
Here are some things that may help
Viet-Nam is the main problem as border crossings with a bike is sometimes difficult and as I wanted to ride back into Viet-nam, ( make sure you get multi entry visa), buying in country was the best option. If you do decide to buy, Hanoi is an advantage as district plates (29 ) will help with authorities throughout the north and south.
There are many places to rent rooms though they are not advertised well, learn the different names for the different districts.
Border crossings- North is open (Den bien to Udamaxai, Laos) beware the road deteriorates on the Laos side for 100ks then ok.(Bribe warning)
South - Bo-y is under a lot of construction so only roadside shacks for Laos and a simple process on the Viet-nam side ( this is a great ride )
Centre- Khe-san to Laos very efficient no waiting
I took the bike through the Laos-Thailand borders at Vientienne to Udon Thani here make sure of your papers (owernship mainly) I was rejected at the Cambodian-Thailand border (Siam reap to Thailand) but there are border tensions there ( Siam Reap means "the defeat of Thailand" after all)
Thailand to Laos at Savanakhet across the friendship bridge -sweet- carry spare photos if no visa
Viet-Nam to Cambodia no problems (A vaccination-health card helps here)
Cambodia-Laos primitive (bribe warning)
Cambodia and Laos are a doddle to ride around (mainly flat), if you keep to the main drag , if you travel off season, make this gospel.
Thailand is a shock if you have been riding in Laos-Cambodia, very modern, very fast and this is where a small bike is found lacking. There are dedicated bike lanes though.
What I would do different next time-
Bugger the Minsk Its cheap but its old tech and will give you problems. I will get a hero honda or something, more expensive but reliable ,parts everywhere, NOT a smokey, noisy two-stroke A small bike ,imo, goes as fast as you should when travelling in SE Asia. Also it is easier to lift them onto canoes, ferries,trucks etc.
I would avoid the main highway in Vietnam, its a bitch (although there are some special vistas sometimes) I prefer the mountains , the Ho Chi Minh trails (there are many) Not easy, but an adventure.
If Asian city traffic worries you, just get up real early and make the city limits just on dawn.
If you have any specific questions I would be happy to reply If I'm able.
BTW I'm jealous , your're about to have the time of your life :mchappy::palm:

No CdP required for any of these countries and you don't need one with a Thai reg'd bike for Malaysia, either. Thailand (& Laos & Cambo) don't issue or use them, which otherwise would effectively close the Malaysian border, as Thais can't get CdPs...

So you were able to cross this bridge on a bike without problems? When I was there in 2009 anything with less than 4 wheels was not allowed on the bridge.

Check the forums on GTRider.com for updates.

"So you were able to cross this bridge on a bike without problems? When I was there in 2009 anything with less than 4 wheels was not allowed on the bridge."

Trust me, why would I lie, I was there in 2010

Thanks Bob, that's great news. I was not insinuating that you were lying, just wanted to confirm this, as the bridge has been officially closed to bikes since it was built.

Sorry about the short post beddhist I didnt realise I had done something new
So heres the details
Arrived late afternoon on the Thai side decided to get a room and tackle the border in the morning
Early start ,I cant really say it was any different to any other Laos crossing (I cant remember seeing any other bikes though) change over lanes(right hand drive to left)a little tricky (I got it wrong and had to mount the low barrier doh)
There is a wash down bay for cars I stopped, got off ,but was waived through.
Arrived at Laos gate and applied for visa $30 US with picture.
Drove off south
I do not carry guides only a compass and a map so I was unaware of any problems with this crossing, ignorance is bliss I suppose
Two other things I think were in my favour -When crossing the Laos border for the fist time I paid a deposit of $30 to 50, I cant remember the exact amount, and was given a sticker which was attached to the petrol tank (6"x7") this was unreadable by the time I had arrived at this crossing(petrol spills) but was still recognizable as an official Laos document. I don't know if they issue them there, so beware
The second were the plates, Its only an opinion, but Hanoi district plates (29) have respect, remember Laos is still a communist country and Cambodia all but.
In regards to what bike to get I notice you want to double up, your options are limited. All bikes in VN are no bigger than 250 cc though they make them look exactly like Harleys ,something like this would be comfortable but your carrying capacity limited and the mountains slow. Depending on your budget you can be driven on tours on the back of some big bikes but you rarely see them. (I've lost my "bike bitch" licence so it didnt apply to me ;) )
Any chance your partner getting their own bike? would be my choice
If on a budget get the minsk there are still a few in Hanoi (around $250)
but buy spares in Hanoi as they can be scarce else ware.(clutch plates a special)
Helmets are everywhere but bring your own or do a deal with a similar sized tourist finishing their ride.

Thanks everyone for the answers!.. I asked to a friend of mine advices about how to organize the trip and he told me "post on HU and you'll find more than in all the guides you can buy=)" i see now how much the man was right!!:thumbup1:

It's great to know that is possible to cross on the friendship bridge from Thai to Laos!..

Many people are trying to terrify us about the raining season saying that going to south of vietnam and east cambodia in end of august beginning of september will be a nightmare, all the mekong delta will be impossible to ride etc.. do you know something about that?.. is really impossible?

In this case one option could be avoid Vietnam fly in Thailand and from there enter in cambodia than Laos, nord Thay again then malaysia and indonesia.. what do you think about that?

cheers
Sil:mchappy:

When you are planning to arrive the rainy season in the North gets going. It will build up to a peak in around October, when you can expect serious flooding in places.

As you proceed South down the peninsula you enter a different climate zone. Southern Thailand is being flooded right now (although it's exceptionally severe this year).

So, your plan may work out well, as you will be leaving the NE monsoon zone just as it gets going.

There are a core of tourists that now prefer the off season, cheap rents (bikes/rooms etc.) I'm going to join them.You're invited too. I'm tired of waiting for the guides to fire the starting gun.
Why panic ?because the guides say so? your falling into a trap.Guides herd you into tourist enclaves.
I want to see the Mekong in full flight, I want to see Ton Le Sap lake, Cambodia, at full capacity.If that means riding in rain so be it. Because of the rain there are less tourist buses, the worst vehicles on the road. The rain washes the stagnant pools. fresh rainwater to drink. I could go on
Another suggestion is to hire
Cambodia either Phnom Penh or Sihonukville and circle the lake (includes Angkor Wat) I have seen many large trail bikes for hire here (350-500)
Laos - Plenty of bikes for hire ( saw six Harleys that were rented in Luang Prabang,don't know where they rented them from) start in The capitol, Vientiene, for the best deals and ride to Pak Peng catch the long boat back if short for time ( this includes tube riding at Vang Vieng would be a hoot with the river up)
Thailand, everything available to hire. If you can, the Chang Mai to Luang Prabang ,Laos,border, would be tempting to try and get a hired bike across. Coming back into Thailand at Vientienne with Thai plates shouldn't be a problem.
Viet-Nam every second bike is for hire, at a price. Make sure you have a copy of the ownership papers and if the wallopers pull you over just say it is the hotels bike that your renting (works if you own it .because officially you cannot own a bike in VN with VN plates) BTW the police in VN have been told to leave the tourists alone, and it is working ,to a point.

This is a little bit of a messy post, but:

Don't skip Vietnam just for not having big bikes, the HCMH (Ho chi Mihn Highway) is great fun and mostly empty. None of the crazy car,truck,bus business of the A1 along the cost. It covers some really nice areas, is full of curvy mountain parts and the road is in surprisingly good shape. BUT do the north more intensely, much more spectacular.

There are reasons why you can skip Vietnam, but small bikes shouldn't be it, it is a beautiful place, not the friendliest, but the countryside is nice. If you want a bigger bike later, just do Vietnam first, sell the bike again in saigon and get a new one in Cambodia, where you can also officially buy and own it.


The Border thing:
I crossed all land-borders on my bike that still had the Vietnamese plates on it and the papers where from the early 90s with some random vietnamese guys name on them. No copies no nothing. Yes, I was lucky, but I've talked to many more who got in and out of all countries here with minor hassle.


If you want a bigger bike, cambodia or Thailand should be your best bets to find some. But you don't really need them here, this ain't the west. If you're not planning to bore yourself to death on the big Highways in Thailand and Malaysia most roads you'll ride are tiny, curvy, beautiful and potholed, that is the beauty of motorbiking here. Any size will do.


Rain:
Ive ridden the worst rains I've seen in my life over the last year here in SEA, but as I say, I've ridden them. You'll be wet, but usually not cold. make sure you pack your passport in a few layers of plastic as I managed to dissolve my border stamps for cambodia in the rain and therefore have a "nice" long talk at the border. doh


And if you really go to Indonesia instead, don't ship the bike, to expensive if you'll sell it anyways, just buy a bike in Indonesia, they also have some, actually a lot, real nice 200 - 250 cc bikes from all the big Japs. Personally I like the Yamahas from the look, but that's just me.

have Fun, and don't worry about planning so much, it all works out, somehow.

I agree with most of what you say.

Cambodia: that's a good tip, being able to legally buy one there, as you can't do that in Thailand.

Rain: I try to avoid riding in the rain as much as possible. It's just too dangerous and you don't see much. Rain can also be surprisingly cold, depending on where you are.

Indonesia: the only 250cc bikes you can buy there are the Kawa KLX 250, but it's available only on Java. I don't know whether you can legally register a bike there as a foreigner. If not, expect interesting discussions with police in some of the ferry ports.

KLX in Medan
 

Hi I am in Medan Sumatra at the moment you can buy a KLX here now as a new unit not sure how much but I will find out they are not bad but a little slow after the 1200 (but I left that in Pattaya ... I will be back soon baby :-)) but the 250 is good for Indonesian roads and good in the heavy traffic.:taz:

I wouldn't skip any country just for not having big bikes! At the beginning i was thinking to a bigger bike just for the fact that we'll be riding in two on the same bike but it's really not a problem:scooter: i don't plan to use big highways anyway!

ok, so eventually the final state we choose are Thailand - Vietnam - Laos - Cambodia (perhaps malaysia if time and money will allowed)

I'll be flying in bangkok (cheaper option i found) the 22nd of july and i'll be leaving the 4th october.

Considering weather, time, bike to buy etc my first idea is

take an internal fly from bangkok to hanoi start a "round trip":
north of Vietnam first, then Laos, thailand from north to south, cambodia, and south of Vietnam where i hope to sell the bike (if there is still something to sell=). Then if time is enough fly/ferry to malaysia.

Any advices?.. i've read everywhere and many people are confirming that north of vietnam is amazing as well as laos, any place you particularly advice me to see?

Also, in your experience is it better to get the visas before arriving there?
problem is that the closest place where they issue them is in Paris (like 800km from me:eek3:)

cheers!
Sil

Solsil
The northern loop Hanoi-Sapa-Den Bien is at times a challenging but top ride as the road in parts is still under construction there's also a stretch of 300 ks without any obvious accommodation.
I was offered 500 us bucks for my Minsk in Ho Chi Minh City and it was a mess, I only paid $250 in Hanoi, there is a shortage of cheap Minsks in Saigon and the touts and hotel owners are aware of the demand from tourists.
Try and get your visa for VN before you go, applying in Paris may end up being easier. The rest ok

You only need a visa for Vietnam. All other visas are available at the borders - just not at ALL of the borders. Check GT-Rider.com for the current situation.

I would not get the Vietnam Visa in Paris, or Europe for that matter. It is much much smoother here. Phnom Phen is highly recommended and Laos is good as well. BKK should also be fine/ If you get it in Europe it will be a major hassle. Here you apply and after 4 days you pick it up. During that time, just do a short trip off the main route. But, you can also apply for an Visa in Advance online that you than get on arrival at Hanoi Airport. No idea which company is good, but I it seems to be working smooth as I've seen loads of people with that.


It ain't the nicest drive in Vietnam, but if you haven't seen Halong Bay, than go. North of Halong the island madness still goes on, the if you follow the coast the drive gets better, from there you can than cut back west and join with the north-west-loop.

Some suggestions here: Minsk Club Vietnam :: Road Trips around the north of Vietnam







Now a slight off-topic as you said you're not doing Indo, but showing bikes is fun:
I mean those:

http://www.yamaha-motor.co.id/product/motorcycle/sport/

They are everywhere, all over the Country, Sumatra, Java, Sulawesi, Flores, Timor,....
You will not be able to legally buy them, but buying and selling "privately" is easy and fast. And they offer a "classic" round headlamp so it alos looks proper :D

Honda has the Tiger and Honda also just launched the CBR 250 here. Kawasaki has the Ninjas and the little D-Trackers. Suzuki calles them Pulsa or something and they got some Indian made crap here that I wouldn't touch.

I'm presently doing the same trip. My best advice is go to less used borders, this should reduce bribes, i've only had to give a little extra to one guy going from Thailand to Laos and that was on a public holiday so was expected. Otherwise no hassles.
Thailand will put what appears to be a stupid price on your bike (mine Suzuki GN125 bought for $500US was valued at $2000US) but found out when travelling there that that is probable close to the cost of a second hand bike here. They give your bike a 30 visa and you a 15 day visa if you come over the land boarder so get a 1 month thailand visa in advance.
Also i would advise getting a Honda if possible, everyone i have meet with Minsk are carrying as much weight in spare parts as gear. Most break down every 50 to 100km this is what some love about them to me that is just a pain in the ass. Also there are alot less now than there where as they are all getting turned into parts.
Honda's are everywhere in all countries you will not have trouble getting part (which i am at the moment in Laos they don't have the piston and rings i need). The wave or bonus both seem good bikes, i meet a fin on the way to Danang and his wave was able to do over 70km/h which is as fast as you need for Vietnam.
If you get anything over 170cc in Vietnam it has had 140% tax added when brought into the country so they will cost you over $2000US for an ok one.
Hope this helps
ENjoy your ride
Blair
If you want some info (although mostly just stories for my family) my blog is
blairntv650.blogspot.com
Oh and rain isn't that much of an issuejust stay off the front break. Also bring your own helmet and gear if possible as the stuff they sell in Vietnam is shit.

+Hong Kong / India
 

I'm planning to do a similar trip this year but was also hoping to make a quick stop over in Hong Kong. But the general picture I get is that it's difficult / costly to get a bike into China. Is that the case? Is it possible to ride from Hanoi to Hong Kong?

Welcome to HUBB.

Unfortunately, unless you are a Chinese citizen with a bike registered in PRC and the right to enter HK - forget it.

PRC: 50-150 US$/day, guide with car compulsory.
Vietnam: some kind of official tour with guide, unless you buy the bike there.
HK: who knows, but don't expect to just roll up at the border and cross.

Please search HUBB, most of the answers are already there.
Also check the Forwood's blog, they have been just about everywhere.

Thanks!
 

Thanks for the pointers, beddhist. This is a fantastic forum. So helpful and informative. Cheers.

When it rains, it pours!
 

Agreed, not a fan of rain either....but then I'm English, I'm used to It! lol

But, just returned from the Mae Hong Son loop in N Thailand where it rained pississtently. It was cool, as soon as the heavens opened we pulled into a street shack/shop, had a coffee/water/tea, made friends with the locals who thought we were crazy and continued when it stopped.

It breaks up the riding, stops your backside from getting sore, and you'll get some great photos.

Pete

Rain
 

Sounds like what most of the Indonesia trip I did was like but great fun. I am in Kanchanaburi now, south of you, after the Three Pagodas pass I am heading to the Mae Hong Son loop sounds great. BTW not much rain down here.:funmeteryes:
Rick:

Don't miss Erawan waterfalls and I recommend you ride past Si Nakarin reservoir. As you continue there is a beautiful little road over the mountains.

New question!

Has anyone ride the Ho Chi minh trail?.. i'm finding many website advertising it, but sometimes it seems a bit like a tourist trap, do you know if is worthed? also, you need to go with a guide or you can sort it out with a good map (If available)?

thanks!
SIL

Ho Chi Minh Trail.
 

I'vedone from Danang to Plieku and it's lovely but too many buses and not enough other traffic. yes that sounds stupid, what it means is in that area the buses will drive use every inch of the road because they don't expect to much traffic.
Now the bit you want to ride (i think as i haven't done all of it) is from danang up to Hanoi on it as the buses and trucks mostly go up the main road and the back road in the mountains has alot less traffic. Also around Dalat is awesome you have to have a play around there.
Enjoy the ride. I've been in south east asia for six months ridering around now and it has been a blast
Hehe off to do china in a few days yes more more more...

China
 

Hey Blairn how are you doing China mate as it seems to me almost imposible from what I can find out. Well pretty damned expensive any way and I have heard Vietnam is also becoming more laxed with there CC policy so I want to give that a run while I am in SE Asia
:scooter: Rick
P.S. The northern Thailand roads are fantastic to ride just got back from Mae Hon Song and Mae Saelong to Mae Chong to Chiang Mae what a ride

Rick,

AFAIK there is no "cc policy" in Vietnam. Last I heard all vehicles are banned from entering Vietnam, with the exception of the Ha Tien crossing. Do you have other news?

I had the same problem too but that was way back in 2007. 2 wheelers were not allowed.

Vietnam
 

Hey Beddhist I will let you know soon mate as I am going to try from the Southern end myself stay tuned I heard that is the best place to start anyway.
BTW all it seems that Thailand officially acknowledge the Carnet now even though it is not listed as being a participant looks like I have to renew it ....... bugger
:censored:

I'm in the early planning stages to do a similar trip starting in Hanoi, Vietnam. Some quick questions:
How do you register your newly bought bike in Vietnam on a tourist visa and get Vietnamese licence plates?
What paperwork do you need to cross the border to Cambodia? Just proof of ownership?
Is it possible to buy a brand new bike and get it licenced? I was thinking of buying a new Honda Wave and not have to worry about it breaking down...
Thanks for your help guys!

As far as i know what you need are the registration documents of the bike, some kind of owner paper and of course the plate... than i read that everything should be preatty easy if you buy a used bike, i don't know more about buying a new bike and registering it, surely you have to provide a vietnamese addres but many people just use the hostel address or similar.
is there anyone who have more specific info?..
cheers

Thanks Solsil. Finding specific information about this is very difficult... When you do this trip, PLEASE post a small report here on HUBB about purchasing a bike, the documents you obtain and crossing the borders. I'd be (and I'm sure others) extremely grateful.

From what I've read, it's (almost?) impossible to buy a new Vietnamese bike on a tourist visa. Used is far more easier but still illegal. When we buy a used bike, the bike keeps the license plate but the registration and ownership papers of the bike will remain in the name of the Vietnamese person we buy the bike from. Since we are on tourist visas and are not allowed to own a Vietnamese bike, it will be impossible to change the registration into our name.

I'm still trying to figure out how people crossed the various borders on bikes without proper registration or ownership papers. I guess these papers are in Vietnamese so the other countries can't read these documents and just look to see if the numbers on the paper match those on the bike. Maybe they don't even check...
Maybe there is a way to change the ownership and register the bike in my name...

I know I'm making this more complicated than it should be but I just want to know for peace of mind. :scooter:

Hi everyone, i'll post a complete report when i'm back in vietnam, right know i can drop some line about my experience

- buy a bike is absolutely easy, once i find one i liked i controlled it with the dealer, payed. stop. no paperwork, just the ownership paper and the plate

-border crossing to laos has not been a problem, i just went to dien bien phu, then to tray thang and i had no problem in importing the viet bike in laos

cheers

Sil

Just out of curiosity: how is the road from Tay Trang border to Muong Khua? I was there on a Minsk in 2009 and it was just a piste of mud and many river crossings. We had a great time riding it under heavy rains. wet but happy with the spectacular road.
They were building a new, better road starting from Muong Khua and I believe this would make the road less adventurous and more used by trucks and buses (we didn't encountered anything but smilling children and scared wild monkeys).

Tay Trang Border on a Minsk - YouTube

hey vander!

definetely the road got better in these two years, it was tarmac for the first 50% than good dirt road apart for the river crossing wich were quite big (damn rainy season=), we needed to put the bike on a small boat once but for the other river we found small bridges.

Sil

This and a bit more
 

Sorry in advance if this is redundant.
I am planning a similiar trip the end of this year. This is the plan so please tell me the biggest obsticles: buy a Honda XR 400 in Chiang Mai. Tour Thailand, Laos, and Cambodia. Possibly ship the bike to India and ride India and Nepal. Then return to Thailand.
The problems I foresee are the Carnets for India and Nepal, proper licensing in Thailand, and transport to and from India from Thailand (Phuket). I did just see a post that they may be opening a route through Burma.
Any other glaring obsticles?

Hi Jon,

I suspect that you will find it more than a little difficult to find an XR. When we tried to buy an XR250 3 years ago there weren't any. Plus, most of the older bikes don't have legal plates, so you can't cross borders with them. We ended up buying a new KLX250, which turned out an excellent bike.

To legally register a bike you need a non-immigrant visa and an address. The address needs to be official with documents, so you can't make one up. You will also need somebody who speaks Thai to get you through the bureaucratic jungle. Don't hand over money until you have the Green Book with your name on it in your hand. You will also need to obtain an official translation of this document from the rego office, as nobody can read the GC.

Carnet shouldn't be a problem, check out the Malaysian AA on the carnet page on HU.

I think you can forget Burma and shipping from Phuket. Either fly your bike from Bkk to Ktm or Dhaca or ship/fly from KL.