Riding India for dummies...
 

Talk to me............ :scooter:

Carnet, horn, cows :rofl:

Horn, horn, horn!

Oh and imodium works quickly when Delhi-belly sets in. :D

hahahah !

Oh no, not another carnet country !! BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

A rethink maybe in order then....

I was wondering about cost of living per day, road conditions, fuel availability etc.

Road hierachy from top (God like) to bottom (dirt)

Cow
Goat
Horse
Sheep
Camel
Bus
Pedestrian (well at least they think they own the road)
Big Truck
Med Truck
4WD
Small Truck
Tractor
Van
Big Car
Med Car
Horse drawn Cart
Small Car
Auto Rickshaw
Rickshaw (cycle)
Motorcycle
Bicycle
Children (and other small objects)
Dog
:wink3:

Once you realise you're only above a bicycle then you've understood the most important.

Sounds just like Africa !! lol

Fuucckking Chaos

Its only chaos if you are trying to travel faster than the general flow. What's the rush:scooter:

The truck drivers are OK but the bus drivers are the worst. In the north, they seem to employ young men who want to keep to their schedules. They are not biased against motorcycles, small cars also get the same treatment.

However, don't let that spoil a great place:thumbup1:

John

I once followed a long-distance bus a bit on a curvy road in the South... it was one of the funniest/craziest/hairiest experiences I´ve had in the entire country! The thing had no springs or suspension to speak of, yet it was loaded full of people and their stuff, many many times I was 100% certain, that there´s NO WAY it can make that next bend without falling off the road. But it did! And it blasted right thru the small villages, the driver just kept the pedal nailed, incredible how no-one was hurt (...but it happens - in fact over 200 dead on those roads every day!)

...vibrant and totally chaotic
 

I have to say that (in my opinion) after 8 years on the road and 71 countries travelled that India was the worst place to ever attempt to ride a motorcycle.
the list of 'who rules the road' is a good one Turbocharger!
You are left totally drained at the end of the day. I found that I was unable to enjoy the riding as your concentration has to be 200% + 360 degrees awareness (!!) every second you are on the road. its exhausting.

the noise of the constant horn use plus the pollution also adds to the feeling of frustration and exhaustion. if you want a quick read look here at our time in India
.2ridetheworld.com : diary

would I go back. Oh yes...but not on a motorbike, then at least I could enjoy it a bit more as its a beautiful, vibrant, colourful, highly overpopulated, poisonously polluted country with a 'deathwish' population once they get on the roads on any form of transport.

as long as you are aware of all of this, go, try to be safe and find those rare quiet and calm areas...there are a small few of these still left in India!

note: yes India is a Carnet country. how were you thinking of getting there? shipping straight in or via a landborder...from?

Very well said. My two trips riding in that country, that was EXACTLY how I felt every evening! So true about the concentration, too - the density of traffic, combined with the rules of the road á la India, you´ll just have to see it to really believe it.

I´m also glad I went there, as it´s a fantastic, bizarre country, that gives you a very raw experience (in good and in bad!), and I hope I get to go again... but not on a motorcycle any more, I´ll rather ride somewhere else!!

I think the only difference with Africa is that you need to reverse the position of Cow and Camel. :lol2:

My whole point of riding is to enjoy myself and it doesnt sound like fun riding.. Just stress !

I think it could be better with a backpack from reading this :)

Horns, buses and hostages
 

This is so very true. Infact the way we explained the road rules, read lack of them, is like this. Think of a horse with blinkers on. It only sees what is directly in view in front and so only cares (gives way) to something directly in its field of view and higher in the hierachy (see scale earlier). It doesn't care about what is to the side or behind. So when you take the same approach in Indian roads, I think it works quite well.

And I think Horn, horn, horn was an understatement!

Don't need headlights, or blinkers or any lights for that matter as long as you have a horn.

Horn when appraoching an intersection
Horn when entering an intersection
Horn when overtaking (long horn)
Horn when turning
Horn when stopping
Horn when starting
Horn when changing direction
Horn when not stationary ie all the time.

PS most vehicles have more than 1 horn just incase one breaks. Buses have the most incredible tunes, sounding like an ice-cream truck or Mr Whippy but don't be fooled you better get out of their way, they don't take hostages!!!

...faster than the flow...is that possible??!
 

mmm..I think I will have to disagree with the first bit of this statement! most of the time its impossible to travel faster than 'the flow' as the density of traffic will not allow. so...even when riding at the same speed as all of the other vehciles on the road, pushbikes, the small motorbikes, etc....even the cow often walked faster than we rode! it is still complete and utter chaos and you still need your attention absolutely focused.

however, you are indeed correct in saying
'whats the rush'! ...there is absolutely no point in rushing through any country because if you do why bother visiting it in the first place!

is it different to the cities in Africa...I have to say 'yes' in my experience it is. However, exactly how is difficult to enunciate. ..perhaps it is the continual use of the horn! After a while it did my head in....
however, Go and try it! and have fun but be safe!! and AWARE all the time.

We've also been playing with the idea of going 2-up from Norway down to iran and eventually India, India being our 'main' destination.

For those who may have been to Cairo and have experienced riding there and India, how does the 2 compare?

I would like to think I'm a good/capable/alert rider - I did a fair bit of dispatch riding in London (I know its completely different) during by younger years.

I definitely agree with an earlier post about the blinkers...you only care/worry about what is in front of you...nothing else really matters. You have to ride they way they do!

I've ridden in India and driven but only driven in Cairo - but both many times. I'd say India is the worst.

just arrived back home for a short rest.
After 10 years on the road (always 6 mnth ride, two mnth at home) with bicycle, bike and car and covered roughly 20.000km in India with an Enfield (500 and 350)two up from Darjeeling to Kanyakumari and about everything in between I can just say: Act as the romans in Rome and you stay alive. Off course we had our moments but the roads between Rotterdam and Amsterdam in rush hour are way more dangerous.
So I say, when you ride in India, take it easy and you will stay alive.
Have fun

Can´t agree with that. Risks are of course everywhere, and more or less everything is very different in Asia, so probably should not be compared... but generally it´s quite safe in Europe, and in my view doesn´t even get close to India.

Just my 0,02.

Try this for six months, eight hours a day.

YouTube - India Driving

The day we rode out of India into Pakistan was like having a massive weight lifted from our shoulders and we couldn't wait to leave.
But now having been back for ten months I'd go straight back tomorrow rather than sitting here, 7000 miles over a six month period was too much for us in one hit and that was with two months spent chillin in Goa.

Cheers
Pete

IMO backpacking in India is uncomfortable and more dangerous than riding

What is required is
1. Ride alone - looking for your mates all the time is dangerous ( if you do have a mate then agree to meet at a town and carry a local phone card, they work quite well and are cheap)
2. Big mirrors they may look dickie ,but trust me
3. Big smile India will break your heart, but mend it twice if you have one
4. disconnect your indicators hehe, I know I'll be flamed for this, but, Indians don't- signal/read signals -well. So it its best to learn to go with the flow.
Anyone with a modicum of riding experience can ride in India. the true test is to walk through the streets of any major city until you have the feel and confidence of the traffic and its "rules"
Then true Mother India awaits:funmeteryes:

Hello!

Twobob, that sounds like some sage advice! :)

I guess I am surprised at what the majority say. I know India is meant to be one of, if not the worst place to ride in the world but I'm surprised to hear people wouldn't go back on a bike.

I guess cities and such are the maddest. Watching that video posted by mcgiggle, I watched with amazement, amusement and curiosity at the way that despite a few times where they bunch up, the traffic seems to flow...albeit very randomly! If that was a junction in the UK and the same system was in place, there'd have been a few crunched bumpers and a few cases of road rage.

A mate and I are planning a ride to India later this year and this thread has made me think a bit more about what to expect. Which can't be a bad thing! I am thinking that we will be OK as my mate spent some of his childhood living in India and has driven in many countries but he's not got his bike test yet. I've been riding on and off road for 26 years, was a motorcycle courier in Bristol for a while and have done a bit of riding in Sri Lanka.

Like Touring Ted, I'd also like to hear about cost/day, etc for a trip to India :)

just wrote you a huge reply but i lost connection as we are in thailand. Its about 90p to £1 a litre and your going to want to filtre it before it goes in your tank in most places, then you can get by on about £5 a day after that if you want to but to live well and in hotels £15 makes you a king.

India is the most dangerous place i have ever ridden, i got to a point where i really was just wanting to get out without it costing me my life and i race a fireblade in England and have ridden in London traffic for 8 years.

It's horrific, do a first aid course and a good one before you go, as the Austrian i was talking to today said "you will dies 5 times a day":funmeterno:

Your mate in my opinion could be in real danger you will be forced off the road and i mean forced with a seconds notice and you will be headed for deep sand, mud or gravel and there may be a sheer cliff drop the other side and hes going to need to be able to keep the bike up.

I will never go there again, not on a motorbike. I have now ridden in 40 countries and india is the most scary bar non!!!! Unless you have to go there i really would not bother!!

If you decided to go be well prepared, take into consideration if you come off your on your own for over an hour so bring a good medical bag and ALWAYS carry some US dollars. It was the craziest experince of my life but i fell like i acciedentally wondered into a hungry lions den and managed to walk out!!

If you want any more info then let me know, we had some good times but its just not worth it, it will make a big difference what bike you are on, i want to tell you to have a go but if you do just know how dangerous it is!!

Good luck!!!

Hi Rixxy,

Thanks for your advice.

I was chatting to my mate today and I asked him if he'd ridden when he was in india and he said he's ridden a bullet 350 and a moped, so he's well aware of the risks and the 'rules' of the road. I know he's capable of handling a bike. Also, as we plan to ride through europe, Iran, etc, it will give him a good chance to get to grips with a loaded bike. Also thinking of taking him off-roading a few times to get him more comfortable with handling the bike in that environment.

We are thinking of taking 500 or 650cc bikes - not too bulky, good cruise speed and enough power to shift, should it be needed.

Your suggestion of taking first aid courses is great and I shall be looking into this.

Yes, we could go elsewhere but we've chosen India because his mum runs a charity near Bangalore, and the plan is that we'll be raising money for her charity and riding to the village where she lives.

Backpacking implies veeeery tiring buses rides (as a passanger!) and/or a Master's Degree in train tickets booking from Central New Dehli Station University. Magic word, whenever possible: tourist quota!

Plan B: leave India behind and enjoy beautiful Nepal: rent a cheap Bajaj Pulsar and hit the Siddartha Highway. After India it'll be even more heaven on Earth.

Esteban

PS: Costs in India? It depends... Conditions of Lali Singh's Enfield rentals:

If the third party is not so seriously injured then it will be better to compensate at the spot without involving the police and the court.

For any slight injury the compensation can be Rs.500 to 1000
For any broken bones compensation can be Rs.5000 to 25000

Add: in case of serious injury/death, flee (to the Police Station) to save your life.

Stick to Nepal...the people are much nicer and dont try and kill you!

Sounding your Horn makes absolutly no difference, that Moron in the white Mahindra 4WD will still drive at you full speed and wont even blink as he runs you off the road, a lot of bus companies are owned by state governers so the drivers mostly get off if they kill someone...worst accident rate in the world, I will never go back to this country especially on a bike...it is the worst riding experince I have had in over 45 countries, its really not enjoyable at all, this experience is very hard to put into words unless you have experienced it and yes I would like to put people off as it sucked!!....Nepal is fantastic....save your money and life for there!

With the accident rate, you need to also think about the country´s population and amount of traffic. Often the roads are so bad and congested in India, that it´s just plain impossible to go very fast.

But yeah, India was probably the worst place I´ve ever ridden in, followed closely by Pakistan and Indonesia. In fact the rest of Asia is quite bad, too - haven´t been to China but I hear it could match India. But on the other hand, all these countries have a lot to offer, and if you do stupid things yourself, or run out of luck, you can easily be killed in traffic in any one of them. If I wanted to go to India, I wouldn´t skip it because of traffic.

Just learn to prepare for anything and everything, know how to brake efficiently and make quick evasive moves with your bike WHILE you are aware of other vehicles right next to you or behind you, only ride in daylight, use your horn aplenty, have breaks often, make sure you´re well fed and drink enough water, use proper riding gear...

And most importantly: learn how to BE ALERT every second that you´re on the bike. That really helps, because dangerous situations come and go all the time, and sooner you´re able to see them coming, the better you can handle them. (That same thing actually works everywhere, you just don´t need to use it so often, unless you´re in a place like India). When you let your concentration go, that´s when bad things happen. For me, 50kms was enough in India, and then a small break and move on, just so that I could remain concentrated to that traffic. Only 200kms could feel like a very long day sometimes.

Nepal is also dangerous but a much more calculated risk in my opinion, India was an amazing exerience i cannot deny that, but if i go back there it won't be on a bike, it just does not make sense.

Nepal is a fantastic place to travel, do as much of it as you can, the people, the roads and the scenary are amazing.

Any advice i offer here i have only offered in order to try prepare you, i recieved very simliar warnings and still thought i could handle 3 months but only ended up doing 1.

Some of the State highways are great, no traffic beautiful and just small villages for 100's of km. We had some good days but it was very very very dangerous.

hmmm, I'm just back from a riding trip to Sri Lanka and can't say that I enjoyed it that much, or at least most parts. Could anyone who as been to both countries compare the riding experience in Sri Lanka vs India?

I have a question too..

You rent a Royal Enfield 350cc or 500cc or a Baja?I ask because im a rider and not a mechanist. I know the basics but i cant go deeper. And with a hired bike in India you can cross the border to Nepal? We talk about two passenger in the bike.

I have recently flown into India for my first visit in 15 years, I am cycling this time, having ridden there last time and my first observation from what little I have seen is how much cleaner the air is. I have yet to see a lorry or bus with a smoky exhaust and my hotel manager tells me they have an emmision test now, not sure that I believe him but there is evidence of some change.
I think it is the most dangerous country to motorcycle in, more so cycling, worse than Cairo and Saigon, it does require 200% concentration and it would be better for groups not to try to stick together.
My advice to new comers would be take a few days on foot or hired cycle to watch how the locals behave and stick by their rules, don't try to enforce what you are used to or expect, take it steady and give way to everything. Limit daily mileage to 200 or 300 km, it is a great country to visit and you will not forget the experience.