Himalayan High Road Challenge- Ladakh India
 

Gday there Motorcycle Adventure Riders.

Looking for willing participants, for an experience that will never been forgotten. I am starting up a new motorbike tour company called World On Wheels, and am looking for up to 10 people who would like to be guided on some of the most amazing roads in the world. The tour will last 21 days, and takes you through Northern India, into Ladakh on the highest motorable roads in the world.

Their would be no fees to you. You would pay your own way, all the way. I will guide you, as I have had many years experience in the region. All that I ask is that we can take some photo's of you for our brochure and website. We figure this is a good way to start for us, mainly to get feedback from you.
As I said before their would be no fees for you, and I have all the contacts to ensure that you have everything available to you for a cheap price.
My names Brett, and I'm from Tasmania, and my partner is Svieta, and she is from Russia.
So, what you think....
Would love to hear from you.....

OKAYED BY GRANT

when mate?

My bike or your bike ?

If yours, I'm interested

Depends on timing and bike
 

If you're supplying the bike I would most definitely be interested, It would depend on timing of coarse. :thumbup1:

Thanks
Christopher

All the costs involved with the trip, you guys will pay for. I can organize absolutely everything. Bikes, mechanic(If you want), itinerary, etc....
I would run it like you were my clients, as if a normal tour operation, however you will only pay cost price.

The business World On Wheels, and the Himalayan High Road Challenge, has already been set up, however my partner and I want to run the first tour with no profit. the reason for this is simple..... we would love to get images of our group, videos, and most importantly feedback.
We can organize anything that you might want, from different standards of accommodation etc.
Basically you are getting a tour, for cost.
If you want an idea of how much it would cost you. I will try to give you an idea.
Bike- around $15 per day
Fuel- around $$10 per day
Accommodation from - $5 - the skies the limit. But for something nice if its a single around $15-$20 or half that for 2 people in a double room.
Food- Depends on you- but ranging from $3- $25 per day. In our opinion from experience $20 is more than enough for quality food.
As far as when the tours should go...... Anytime from end of June to September. The closer to June, the colder it is. ( But amazing, and our personal favourite).

I can tell you this. Ladakh is amazing.... words cannot describe that place. You will be left with stories to share thru the generations... A+++

If there is absolutely anything that you would like to know.... if you want some images sent to you, please feel free to contact us.

Hi,

I've been to Manali a few years back and have been dreaming of Leh and Ladakh ever since.

my girlfriend is from India and we are planning a trip for June. Would like to join you if possible.

But we'll need a bike.

Thanks,

Victor

Hey Victor,
Would love you guys to join us. I guess you have read my posts, and you guys have experience in India, so u know the costs involved. I can organise anything you want....

trip
 

If it is this June or July..I would be interested..would we be riding the good old Royal Enfield by any chance ?? I would be available the end of June..:D

Hi Brett

I've wanted to ride this area ever since I bookmarked the write-up and video of Yogesh Sakar and his mates doing it on Baja 160s and the like. Here's another recent write up with Enfields.

I'm interested and I've done a few days riding around Goa so I've some idea of Indian roads and driving standards. :) A rough budget for bike, fuel, accommodation and food for the 21 days looks like being around $1200-1400.

Where would we fly into--New Delhi? A quick search has found return flights for £400-450, but maybe this could be bettered.

I'm free for most dates but would prefer (if possible) not to miss the annual HU meet in the UK which is 24-27 June 2010.

Tim

I'm definitely interested but would prefer a lightweight modern enduro bike like a XR400 etc. and not an Enfield.

I would also prefer some more time than 3 weeks, with stays in the villages along the way and not driving every day.

Single modest room and food is ok for me.

What is the route ?

When will there be some definite plans and itinerary ?
I need to reserve my summerholiday a good time in advance ?

Do you have a homepage with pictures ?

What is the security situation in the area ?

What kind of gaurantee can you offer, if we have to pay you in advance ?

Sounds good
 

Again interested. Timing and cost seems right. I'd prefer an enfield (rode one through Raj. and southern India about 15 yrs. ago) but would ride most anything.

I'm a professional videographer which might be of some interest to you however I generally don't like to combine business with pleasure.

Keep me informed as to your plans - is there anyway I can get you my email without plastering it all over this board?

Thanks
CTB:scooter:

My email is wow_in_india@yahoo.com if anyone wants to contact me directly..

Hey there Cole,

We are flexible for this trip, however we reckon the best time to travel is around the end of June...

Hey Victor,
Would love for you guys to join us....

hey Bjorg,

Yeah definately on an Enfield. We recommend either a 500cc bullet, or a 350 Thunderbird. Personally, I think the thunderbird is perfect for this trip...

hey Tim,
Was great to get your reply, and It would be great if you came along with us...... I will post our suggested itinerary and few options for everyone to consider

Brett

hey there again Paul,

First of all I will post our suggested itinerary, that will help you. As far as the bike, the only bike I am familiar with that is available to my knowledge is the Royal Enfield. Personally riding in India, is as much about the Enfield and it quirky personality, as the environment that we are exploring. I am more than happy for you to organise your own bike, and come along. Otherwise I can organise an Enfield for you. If you have never ridden one, I can tell you they are lots of fun...

Yes, it will be an Enfield. Recommend the thunderbird personally, the only problem is that parts are more scarce.... but thats ok...

This is a suggested itinerary..... I have done it and it encapsulates India. We are in no hurry, and would be happy to take our time. In the end we will see what kind of response we get, and what people are looking for, before we decide how long this journey will take. I prefer that we complete it in the 21 days, so that we can guage how the tour went, for future reference.

Also there are options...
For example, it is not so expensive to organise a support vehicle and driver for the duration of the tour. Also, not so expensive to organise a mechanic to come with us, just to keep our bikes maintained.
*


*
Day 01 : ********** Arrive Delhi
Arrive Delhi International airport where the group will be welcomed with garlands by our company representative . Then transfer them by ac coach to the pre booked hotel and after completing check in formalities stay overnight at the hotel.
*
Day 02 :*********** Delhi / Amritsar .
Intime transfer to the railway station to board Shatabdi Express at 07:20 am and arrive Amritsar at 13:05 Hrs. Pickup from Amritsar railway station, met by representative and transfer to hotel. Post lunch we will drive in our jeeps to Wagha border for Flag ceremony. This ceremony will amaze you, and you get a real feel for the tension between the two sides. On the way back to hotel visit Golden Temple . Come back to hotel for overnight stay.
*
WAGAH BORDER : One of the many nearby places to visit from Amritsar is the Wagah Border. Located on the Indo-Pakistan border, Wagah is 28 kilometres from the Amritsar main town. A good number of visitors come to this place to see the change of guards ceremony and the flag hoisting and lowering activities which are done with great skill and precision by the border security forces of both the countries. A site you cannot afford to miss
*
Golden Temple : Also called Sri Harmandir Sahib, the Golden Temple was laid by Guru Ram Das in the 14th century. It is acclaimed as one of the holiest sites of the Sikhs. It has four doorways and gorgeously decorated arches. Reflecting influences of both Hindu and Muslim styles of architecture, the temple standing in the middle of a tank, exudes tremendous architectural brilliance which draws the attention of numerous tourists around the globe. Although principally a pilgrimage spot for the Sikhs, it is visited by people of all religions and proves to be one of the greatest tourist attractions in Amritsar on your tour to India .
*
Day 03 :******** Amritsar – Dharamsala (210 Kms / 5 – 6 hrs)
After breakfast check out from the hotel and drive to Dharamsala via Pathankot. Arrive Dharamsala and check into hotel. Post lunch you will be introduced to your partners on road – Royal Enfield Motorbikes. Leave for acclimatization tour of Dharamsala on your bikes, you may visit Norbulinka Institute, Mcleodganj and Dall Lake . Come back to hotel in the evening for dinner and overnight stay.
*
Norbulinka Institute : Just four kms from Dharamsala, Norbulinka was established to preserve and teach the ancient Tibetan arts. The shady paths, wooden bridges, small streams tiny water falls make this place look like heaven. Here one can watch the wooden carvings and the tangka paintings, golsithing and embroidery being done. The nunnery close to the institute is a place where women are taught the advanced levels of Buddhist philosophy.
*
McLeodganj : Originally home of the semi-nomadic Gaddi tribe, McLeodganj is today the residence of His Holiness, the Dalai Lama. This mid 19th century place was developed as a British Garrison. The place was developed as an important administrative point for the whole Kangra valley. Today the place has developed as headquarters of the exiled Tibetan Government. The impressive monastery has larger than life size images of Buddha, Padmasambhava and Avaloketeshwara.
*
Dall Lake : Surrounded by high and green Deodar trees is the lake, which fills a mountain bowl. Situated 11-kms away from the town, this lake is easily approachable by road and makes an enchanting and serene picnic spot.
*
Day 04 : ******* Dharamsala – Mandi (125 kms / 05 hrs) (Motorbike safari starts)
Morning after breakfast at the hotel ride to Mandi. Mandi is located at the lower end of the Beas valley. Mandi is renowned for its 81 old stone temples and their enormous range of fine carving. The town also has the remains of old palaces and notable examples of `colonial' architecture. Arrive Mandi and check into hotel. After lunch visit Bodhnath Temple , Symakali Temple and Rewalsar Lake . In the evening come back to hotel for dinner and overnight stay.
*
Bhootnath Temple : Practically synonymous with Mandi and located in it’s very heart, this is as old as the town itself and dates back to the 1520s.
Symakali Temple : Symakali Temple is another holy temple in Mandi built in the 17th century. Constructed by Raja Syama Sen, this temple is also known as the temple of Tarna Devi .
*
Rewalsar : Located on a mountain spur, an hour's drive from Mandi brings you to this dark jewel like lake. With water, woodland and high hills, it presents a variety of natural beauty and the spot is scared for Hindus, Buddhists and Sikhs. Enjoy the evening near the lake watching the devotees perform their regular daily prayers.
*
Day 05 : ******* Mandi - Manali (110 kms / 05 hrs)
The Mandi to Manali drive is pleasurable, the road going alongside the Beas river right up to Manali. Practise caution as blind corners and speedy super deluxe tourist buses abound. The final run upto Manali has roads lined with apple orchards that alternate with the hotels on the outskirts of the town. Arrive Manali and check into your hotel and relax. Dinner and overnight stay at the hotel in Manali.
*
Day 06 : ******* Relaxed Day at Manali.
Today getup on your own pace have breakfast and enjoy the natural beauty of this tourist resort Manali. You may go for local sightseeing of Manali visiting Hadimba and Manu Temples , Tibetan Monastery and Vashist Bath. Come back to hotel for dinner and overnight stay.
*
HADIMBA TEMPLE : Manali has many attractions but the chief centre of interest, historically and archeologically, is undoubtedly the DHOONGRI TEMPLE dedicated to goddess Hadimba, the Bhim of Mahabharat fame. It has four-tiered Pagoda shaped roof and the doorway is carved with legendary figures and symbols. This temple located amidst wooden forest of deodar is about 2.5 kms. from the tourist office. It is a pleasant experience to stroll in the temple complex which was built in 1533 A.D. A large festival is held here in May.
*
MANU TEMPLE: 3 kms. from the main bazar in old Manali lies the temple of MANU RISHI . It is believed that this is the only temple of Manu in India , who was the creator of human race on the earth.
*
TIBETAN MONASTERIES: There are 3 newly constructed colorful monasteries, where visitors can buy carpets and other Tibetan handicrafts. Two are located in the town and one at Aleo on the left bank of Beas river.
*
Day 07 :* ****** *Manali – Tandi (2573 M.) 118 Km / 5 – 6 Hrs Drive.
Morning after breakfast drive to Keylong via Rohtang pass (3980 M) for acclimatisation purpose. Arrive Tandi for the last fuel filling station on Manali – Leh highway. Tandi is situated at the altitude of 2573 meters at the confluence of the Chandra and Bhaga river, Tandi is just 8 km short of Keylong. The village has a population of about 500. It is believed that this place was founded by Raja (King) Rana Chand under the name of Chandi which over the years got corrupted in Tandi. According to the mythological story about this place that Chandra and Bhaga river were son and daughter of the Moon and sun God respectively. They were in love with each other and decided to meet here to enter the wedlock. People respect this place as most sacred place in Lahaul valley. Further drive of 08 Km will get us to Keylong. Dinner and overnight stay at hotel in Keylong.
*
Day 08 :** ***** Keylong – Sarchu (4253 M) 107 Km / 5 – 6 Hrs Drive.
From this day we drive on Leh route and the road winds through extensive fields and long river of Bhaga on the way we stop at Darcha for Passport check. Darcha is the base point for many different trekking routes. Continue drive to Baralachla pass 4883 Mtrs. There is a lake known as Surajtal and it is worth to stop here for pictures. Finally we reach Sarchu which is the boundary line between Himachal and Jammu n Kashmir state. Tonight our camp will be at an altitude of 4253 Mtrs. And it will be the coldest night during the whole tour. This is the last point of Himachal in this safari. Dinner and overnight at Swiss Cottage Tents.*
*
Day 09 : ******* Sarchu-Tsokar (3950m) 175 km / 06 – 07 hrs drive
Early in the morning drive to Tsokar over the Nakeela, and Lachung-la, through the plane of Pang, en route we cross unique landscape, on arrival check in the fix tent rest of the time visit surrounding our camping site, have a change to see the wild ass “Kyang” overnight at Fix Tent.
*
Day 10 : ******* Tsokar-Tsomoriri (4245m) 135 km / 04 – 05 hrs drive
After an early breakfast drive to Tsomoriri, en route visit Sumda the Tibetan Refuge village and school, before Tsomoriri Lake one small lake from where you can see the nice view of Tsomoriri. On arrival at Tsomoriri check in fix tent, Rest of the time visit surrounding the lake and Karzok Gonpa. Overnight at fix tent at Korzok.
*
Day 11 : ******* Rest day at Korzok.
Today visit the Changpa campsites on a large meadow above Korzok. Spend the day watching nomadic life at work. Return to Korzok by late afternoon. Overnight at Camp.
*
Day 12 : ******* Korzok – Leh (226 kms / 07 hrs drive)
After breakfast drive Korzok - Mahe - Leh (226 kms / 7 hrs). A long day's drive back to Leh via Mahe Bridge and travelling along the Indus river gets us to Shey village at Lunch time. We will have lunch at this beautiful village. Our lunch will be specially prepared by the local villagers. After exploring the Shey Palace and village continue drive to Leh.
*
Day 13 : ******* Rest day at Leh.
Today relax at the . Spend the daHotel or explore the Leh town. In the evening we will organize a small bonfire and cocktail session at the hotel. Overnight at Hotel.
*
Day 14 : ******* Excursion to Khardungla Pass (78 Km round trip)
After breakfast prepare yourself for the ultimate adventure of your life. We will drive upto the Kardungla Top to have a magnificent view of the surrounding valleys. After spending some time there come back to Hotel and relax. You can carry a picnic lunch or come back to hotel for a late hot lunch. (Please check the buffet timings at your hotel in case of hot lunch) In the evening take a small round trip to Shanti Stupa for the beautiful sunset view over the entire Leh Valley . Overnight at Hotel in Leh.
*
KHARDUNGLA PASS: The road journey to Nubra valley leads through Khardung La pass (The highest Motorable road in the world) 18,390 ft. around 39 Kms. Away from Leh. There are two checkpoints on the both sides of the pass. Khardong is the first village of Nubra valley at higher altitude than Deskit and other villages.
*
*
SHANTI STUPA (Japanese Peace Pagoda) : Shanti Stupa/Japanese peace pagoda is build by a Japanese religious organization headed by Head monk Nakamura with the help from the organization and local people. It is situated at a hill top in Cahngspa village providing a bird eye view of the Leh town and the surrounding mountain peaks. Architecturally it has the Japanese touch with small clean rooms on the side for meditators and the main Japanese shrine at the entrance.
*
Day 15 : ******* Leh – Sarchu* (250 Kms / 8 – 9 Hrs drive)
Full day* drive to* Sarchu* via* Upshi* and we have* to* cross second highest* motorable* pass* in* world* ( Tanglangla Pass 5350 Mtrs.) Enjoy the nature beauty of the mountains continue drive through Moreplans* there are chance to see tiny colonies of Marmots, Yaks & Herbs. At Pang we stop for lunch continue drive to Lachungla pass 5065 Mtrs rugged in the middle of the mountains. Arrive Sarchu tonight our camp will be at 4200 Mtrs. and it will be the coldest night during the whole tour. Overnight in Tents.
*
Day 16 : ******* Sarchu -* Jispa (3142 M) (95 kms/4 hrs approx)
Morning after breakfast drive to Jispa via Baralachala (4892 M). This place is used for the itinerary as a night stop over before saying good bye to the Ladakh and the Zanskar range . Overnight stay at Hotel Ibex.
*
Day 17 : ******* Jispa – Manali (147 kms/ 5 -- 6 hrs approx)
Morning after breakfast drive to Manali* via Rohtang pass (3980 M). On arrival Check In at Hotel, if time permits take a round of Manali Town . Dinner and overnight stay at Manali.
*
Day 18 :******** Manali – Chandigarh . (300 Km / 07 – 08 hrs drive by Jeeps) - Delhi
After breakfast drive to Chandigarh . Enroute visit Pinjore Gardens and Rock Garden. Arrive Chandigarh and drop to Chandigarh for Evening Shatabdi Express train to Delhi . Arrive and transfer to hotel.
*
Day 19 :*********** Delhi sightseeing
Morning after breakfast group will taken for sightseeing of Old and New Delhi visiting Humayun’s Tomb, Qutab Minar , India gate , Raj Ghat *and enjoy rickshaw ride at Old Delhi . Evening free* . Overnight at the hotel.
*
The Old Delhi is famous for the historical sights like .
*The Jama Mosque- built in 1650 AD - the India ’s largest mosque, which is made of alternating vertical strips of red sandstone and white marble. Drive past the northern gate of the mosque which leads to fabled Chandni Chowk (Moonlight square) and is the main area of the old city. Also visit the breathtaking Red Fort (1639-48) built by the builder of the Taj Mahal – Shah Jehan, famous for its delicately carved inlaid and Royal chambers. Thereafter proceed on to Raj Ghat –the cremation site of the father of the nation Mahatma Gandhi, who died in 1948.
*
The sightseeing tour of New Delhi includes a visit to Humayun’s Tomb (1565 AD). Drive past Safdarjang’s Tomb (1753 AD) and visit the Qutab Minar 73 meters high which tapers from a 15 m diameter base to just 2.5 m at the top. The walls consist intricately carved quotations from Koran (the holy book of the Muslims) and is one of the most perfect towers of the Persian world. Nearby amidst the ruins of Quwat-ul-Islam mosque stands the Iron pillar, which has stood the vagaries of weather and has not rusted over 1500 years. The drive through New Delhi , includes the Embassy area (Diplomatic enclave), Rastrapati Bhawan (The President’s House –1929 ) and the Government buildings (1921-30 ).
*
Overnight at the hotel.
*
Day 20 : ********** Delhi – Agra
Morning drive to Agra and first proceed to see the famous Fatehpur sikri . Return back and* check in at hotel.
*
Day 21 : ********** Agra – Delhi
Morning visit Taj Mahal *during sunrise ( Taj is closed on Fridays ) . Also visit Agra fort* and then *drive to Delhi and departure.
*
Taj Mahal* -The Taj Mahal is a tear on the face of eternity - as described by the famous Nobel Laureate Rabindranath Tagore and symbolises eternal love frozen in white Marble. Emperor Shah Jahan constructed this famous Mughal Monument in the memory of his beloved wife Mumtaz Mahal. It is described as the most extravagant monument ever built for love, for the emperor was heart broken when Mumtaz, to whom he had been married for seventeen years, died in 1631 while giving birth to her 15th child.
*
Agra fort - Emperor Akbar initiated the construction of this massive Agra Fort in 1565 and additions were continuously made until the time of his grandson Shah Jahan. While in Akbar’s time the fort was principally a military structure but by Shah Jahan’s time it had partially become a palace. A visit to the fort is a must as many of the events, which led to the construction of the Taj Mahal, took place here. This fort also serves as vantage location to have the fabulous glimpse of The Taj.
*

*

do you have a map of the trip ?

Do you have a homepage with pictures ?

What is the security situation in the area ?

What kind of guarantee can you offer, if we have to pay you in advance ?

Hi Paul,
1. Yes, we have a map of our trip.

2. No we don't have a homepage as such. However we are holding off on the website until the end of the year next year.

3. Security in Ladakh is fine. Being so close to the Chinese border at times , means that we need permits. This is really only to keep an eye on who is going out of border areas.

4. As previously mentioned, I will not be accepting money from anyone. I can have everything ready and organised , once all the numbers are confirmed, however you will all pay your own way.

I hope this information helps Paul

Can I see it ;-) ?

I've been playing with Mapsource World Map and pushing the results through Google Earth. See if you can load this file - http://www.infar.co.uk/tim/gs/india.kmz

Tim

Thanks for that Tim,
But my computer doesnt seem to have an application to open it....
Appreciate all your help

It should work by just clicking on the link if you have Google Earth on your computer. Or maybe you need to save the file onto your disc drive, then open it within GE.

Once it's open you can zoom in and also checkout other people's photos. If you have the roads layer checked within GE you can see the connecting roads between the waypoints.

Tim

Hey there riders,

Have had an amazing response to the post. Coming closer to the New year, I would like to finalise the numbers, then I can get on to organising a few extra options for our trip... ie: Support vehicles etc.

So, for those of you who are interested in this trip of a lifetime, just send me an email to wow_in_india@yahoo.com, and just let me know.

Look forward to hearng from you,
regards
Brett

Brett

I would also be very interested to book a slot on the tour. 21 days sounds just about right and the itinerary looks very interesting. I've e-mailed the address you have given and look forward to hearing from you.

Regards

Scott

Brett

I think you've got me in this one as well though I'm limited to July/August.
I've sent you an email.

drew

Thanks to all of you who replied to my original post.

Their are a few of you who have not confirmed with me on wow_in_india@yahoo.com. Please do this as I find it alot easier to correspond with you. For those of you who have confirmed, as you are aware I will be sending you further information over the next for weeks.

So far we have what looks like an amazing bunch of adventure riders who have shown interest which will just enhance what is sure to be "the trip of many lifetimes".

I look forward to meeting you all...

Regards
Brett

did Lahul, Spiti, Jammu/Kashmir about 5 years ago twos-up on a 350 bullet. a wicked ride guys. if youve got the chance, do it !!!:thumbup1:

Himalayan High Road Challenge- Ladakh India

Definitely interested if there are still places.

Helen

Hi Helen,

Have added you to my list, and will get back to you shortly...

Regards
NBrett

Gday there Motorcycle Adventure Riders.

Looking for willing participants, for an experience that will never been forgotten. I am starting up a new motorbike tour company called World On Wheels, and am looking for up to 10 people who would like to be guided on some of the most amazing roads in the world. The tour will last 21 days, and takes you through Northern India, into Ladakh on the highest motorable roads in the world.

Their would be no fees to you. You would pay your own way, all the way. I will guide you, as I have had many years experience in the region. All that I ask is that we can take some photo's of you for our brochure and website. We figure this is a good way to start for us, mainly to get feedback from you.
As I said before their would be no fees for you, and I have all the contacts to ensure that you have everything available to you for a cheap price.
My names Brett, and I'm from Tasmania, and my partner is Svieta, and she is from Russia.
So, what you think....
Would love to hear from you.....

OKAYED BY GRANT

To all adventure riders out there,

As I promised, I have finally put together an inaugural tour at cost. In the tour I have included everything from 4 star accommodation to luxury swiss style attached tents, in the desert. Also includes all food, fuel, support vehicles, mechanic, guide, videographer, all transfers ( train, bus, taxi ). I have had 2 nasty responses from 2 veteran members on this blog, telling me it is too expensive, that I told them it would be cheaper!! If you read my blog, I outlined an approximate cost, with the options that could be utilized. I had such a huge response with so many requests, so I decided to package it.

This initial tour is a genuinely cheap option for you. With no profit to me. I am more than happy to outline each and every cost for anyone that is not sure. Those that have already booked, congratulations you have made a smart and educated decision. Those of you that think it is too expensive. Do some research, and please do not compare with doing it yourself, and staying in standard accommodation etc. This is a tour, it will be run as such, professional, fun, challenging and affordable.

We still have a few spots left..... so jump in...

Regards
Brett

Woooh, am I one of the 'nasty veteran members'? Do I get castigated for asking questions?

Your original post outlined costs of $1200-1400, and the package you presented to us is for $2895. You say it's because you've changed your focus and decided to stay at up-market joints and add in extra expenses, but that's not what we signed up for. I think you may be misjudging the typical HUBB member--we're supposed to be adventure motorcyclists, not wannabe Ewan and Charley tourists staying in western-style accommodation.

I'm quite happy participating on the basis that you originally outlined.

Tim

Hehe This is what I feared from the beginning and why I didn't sign up. Its going to be a tourist trip on motorcycles and not a motorcycle trip.

If a "genuinely cheap option " is 3000$ I don't want to know the price when you want to make a profit :clap:

If you really want to make a business, better learn how to treat customers and leave comments like this out "2 nasty responses from 2 veteran members "

Hi there Paul,

Thank you very much for your kind words.

Here we have a person, myself, who is genuine, and with an intention of doing the right thing. I love India and have lived their for many years. Regardless of price, this trip is an adventure, an experience that is second to none. I have done this trip on the cheap, and I have done it at this standard. I am more than happy to organise a cheap tour. No mechanic, little spares, carry all the luggage, very basic rooms and tents, etc? I feel if you are not interested, then that is fine, don't come. But why the nasty words? I did not name anyone who was dissatisfied. I only pointed out that there were a few people who thought it was expensive. And I wanted to explain that for the type of trip it is, it is definately not.

People on the blog, including yourself kept on asking me what was included, itinerary, cost's etc. Of course as you set anything new up, things change.

Their are quite a lot of people who have booked on the first tour, who are happy with what they are going to get.

I do not even understand your stab at me.

This trip is an experience that will leave you very content.

The dream will continue, with the help of some very nice Hubbers who are very supportive. Thank you very much to all of them.

Hi again to the Horizon Hubbers,

I will elaborate some more on what we have to offer.

We still have 4 spots left, and I feel that a few comment's by some bloggers, have caused distress for myself, and also to many people that were genuinely interested in this journey.

The cost of a 21 day experience, with everything included is around $2890. It is top class hotels, and luxury swiss style tent's all the way. Which believe me, is a much needed oasis at the end of a long days ride. We have support vehicles with extra bike, mechanic, all spares, all fuel, transfers, train trip to Amritsar, Taj Mahal, all entrance fees and permits, a DVD of your experience, guides and more. Sure, if you did it by yourself it would be cheaper, absolutely. But for an experience such as this, it is damn cheap. Check out other companies who have been doing it for years ( $5000-$7000+).

Also let me emphasize that we consider this trip as a challenge. It is purely for adventure riders who are looking to explore areas and roads not frequented by other travelers, or travel companies.

Every person has a right to their opinion, but for anyone really interested in an adventure of a lifetime, well their couldn't be a better time.

Dreams can happen!!!!

It's not us
 

Dear All,
I'd like to clarify that the WorldOnWheels user id in this thread has nothing to do with my company, Wow Bike Tours (World On Wheels:Home), advertising on Horizons Unlimited.

We, Wow Bike Tours, also use the tag-line "World On Wheels", but we're not organising the tour mentioned in this thread. We are organising similar tours to the Himalaya in 2010, but not this actual one. It's nothing to do with us.

Have a look at our website for more info and drop me a line if you're interested (info@wowbiketours.com) in joining us.

Apologies if I've over-stepped the forum guidlines on marketing.

Best wishes,

Chris.

I'm out of here! - and I'm sorry I gave my contact details to 'Brett'

has anybody else checked out 'his' website - women on wheels!

maybe I'm just too cynical

drew

Don't be hasty
 

At the same time, I'm not saying Brett's doing anything dodgy, having read the thread, his heart seems to be in the right place and I wish him all the best.


Chris

Again to all the moral bikers in here,

Our website address is www. wowwheels.com.au

Chris, I want to thank you for your kind words. And hope to see you on the road somewhere.

I also want to thank the many members who have sent me emails of support. It shows me that I have made the right decision being here on this great website.

I would ask you all, like Chris has done, to go through the whole blog and see for yourself some of the members who have obviously got issues with somebody trying to live their dreams. To those individuals I say good luck with your own dreams, I hope they happen!!

Regards

Brett and Svieta

Hi Brett. When you cut and paste the website address you give above into a browser, it takes you to Women On Wheels, Australia as someone else has already said. That's not a good look mate, especially when you have people worrying about your authenticity.

Regards

Nigel in NZ

I think it was a typo here's the right link Motorcycle Tours India > Home

More scary still: what if he is in fact judging the typical HUBB poster accurately?

I've been watching this all unfolding from afar, fascinated by the possibilities but busy touring another corner of the globe. It seems to me that the OP has, at the very least, a serious communication problem....which he seems inclined to blame on others. This is not what you'd be looking for in a tour guide. Far preferable if he was apologetic and made a point of understanding the disappointment (I'm being polite here) of those who expressed an interest in another sort of trip.

I also wonder whether some sort of line has been crossed into self-promotion of a sort which I'd call advertising. If so, I wonder whether it is being paid for.

I'm trying to phrase this in terms of my curiosity and observations, rather than by making accusations. Hope that comes through.

Safe journeys!

Mark

(still in Cali, still waiting for parts, feeling increasingly restless)

Great points...IMHO any business, especially a start-up, not open to criticism is doomed.

Here is a quote from "Brett"s webside. (nasty)Veteran Hubbers be warned. :clap::clap:

Nice site
 

Looks like a nice web site, Brett. Though I think your heart's in the right place, I can understand why some people may feel unhappy that you've changed your original offer. You did pretty much double the price, from what I can make out.

As an aside, if Brett's trips are fully booked, we're just starting out too, and working out our prices for our tours next year, which will be pretty close to "cost". The plan is to one day make money doing this, but at this stage, it's more about having fun, adventure (albeit usually, but not always, with a bit of comfort at the end of the day's ride) and finding our feet. We're looking at doing a women only tour, too, but that's not on the site yet.

I expect I'm preaching to the converted here, but whether you go with Brett, come with us, or find your own way into the majestic Indian Himalaya, just make sure you get there somehow, because that road to Ladakh really is something else. It's a life-changing, spiritual, inspiring part of the world. I'm getting shivers up my spine and maybe even a little tear in the corner of my eye just thinking about the sheer beauty of the place and the friendliness of the people as I write this. Every day I've spent in Himachal Pradesh and Jammu and Kashmir has been an adventure, often challenging, always exciting.

I'm based in (south) London (the UK one), my phone number's on my website, as is my address and even a picture of me, so if you want to chat about mountains, motorbikes, our tours, or about the last good book you read, either call, email or even pop round if you're in the area.

Have a good weekend.

Chris.

Thank's for all the support
 

First of all I would like to thank Grant on Horizon's unlimited for all his support, it has been appreciated.

Our first tour is now fully booked, and our second and third tours only have a few spots left. A lot more than we expected, especially considering some very aggressive comments from some very old, cynical individuals who obviously have a lot of baggage they need to unload.!!

After reading the last few threads on my blog, I feel it is time to respond.

First of all, I do have to apologize for giving you an idea of price a few months ago, that didn't turn out to be. Believe me when I say my intention was to provide an amazing experience at a very cheap price, and even at the price I offered it is still very reasonable. I had too many people who were looking for an all inclusive experience, and was more than happy to provide for them.

To those individuals who have personally attacked myself, all I have to say is, well...... stick it. Their was only 3 or 4 of you ( You know who you are ). The only name I would like to mention is Paul.... you do not represent the Danish people, and I am sure they would do everything they can to distance themselves from your aggression.

Never at any stage was their any constructive criticism, only attack, attack, attack. What a shame!! I can only imagine that they are either very lonely in life, or have wives or partners who are very unhappy with what they have.

As far as the recent jab about the quality of my tour guiding experience.

I have worked all around the world as a guide, and am highly respected in my profession. I feel I have taken these attacks, and dealt with them with the utmost dignity.

To those cynical OLD individuals, all I can say is thank god you are not joining us. You would have just made life miserable for the other guests on this experience. I would also have to say that your personalities would not blend in very well with the Ladakhi way of life. The people in Ladakh have a very easy going attitude, and do not respond well to aggression.

To those individuals who have booked on the tour, you are all going to have an amazing journey, and look forward to meeting you next year. I am sure we will all have a laugh about a few of the individuals that we have come across on Horizons.....

Regards

Brett

World On Wheels

Oddly enough, you're not sounding very dignified from where I sit. Guess it takes all types....but you might want to take this perspective into account. Or not: it's entirely your call.

Best of luck with your venture.

Mark

To Chris at the other World On Wheels
 

Hi Chris,

I do appreciate your words. However I think the fact that you are trying to point people to your website will backfire.

You have not come across as professional, and I have already received a few emails from people who are shying far away from your company, simply for that reason.

If we meet on the road we can sit down and discuss some basic etiquette.

We put the blog on Horizons, out itinerary etc, which you copied nearly word for word. As soon as you saw our business name you were very quick to put up your own advertising, and to be honest it did not bother me.

I do wish you luck with your business, however I feel that you do not have the experience in the industry to provide the adventure that people are looking for. I don't think that being in India a few times gives you the ability to provide a quality experience. I also understand that you are looking to make some money, and return to your base in England.

We at the real WOW, live 90% of our time in India and our money stays here and supports the local people. In fact we use an organization here in India for all our logistics that are very highly regarded in the industry. I have lived in India for many years, and know the place back to front.

This is not a really a jab at you Chris, more an observation. You saw some negative comments, and decided this was an opportunity for you to promote yourself.

Regardless of all that... once again .... i wish you luck. And do hope that your dreams come true.

Regards

Brett
WOW

No comment :confused1:

Brett

What an amazing tirade, are you on medications or something? It is still unclear whether I am one of the boring old farts you refer to, but whatever... If I'm not, then after reading what I'm about to say below you will undoubtedly add me to your blacklist.

You need to understand that when you attack people publicly as you have done here, it starts alarm bells ringing as to your suitability or otherwise to act as a leader to a group of disparate individuals who will each have their own agendas as to what they want out of a tour. How are you going to handle this when your group is halfway up the mountains in India--throw a hissie fit every time someone challenges your opinion?

Will you walk out on the group, burst into tears, or throw the dissenters off the tour? You need to calm down, take adversity in your stride, and above all, please please please get some advice on how to improve your customer relations.

Do you have a chip on your shoulder about people who are older than you--you seem to have an ageism prejudice. You seem ready to quickly form a very black and white view of people that you have yet to meet. You've decided on the basis of whether someone has sent you $500 that these are the good guys and the rest are not.

Kevin Saunders of Globebusters has written a great series of articles for Motorcycle Sport and Leisure magazine on many aspects of motorcycle touring and some of these covered the dynamics of tour leading and how to get people with different objectives to pull together on a tour. I encourage you to try to find back issues of these articles and have a read.

However... I have to say that having read your latest diatribes on this forum and attacks on long-standing forum contributors there is no way I would consider participating in anything you organise. You've well and truly blown it as far as I'm concerned.

Despite what was posted about your Challenge being a no-profit ride, this isn’t the case. Having seen some of the backgrounder info, the problem with the arrangements is that absolutely everything is being organised by a third-party holiday company, who of course are not doing this for free, and the prices are undoubtedly higher than could be achieved by travellers or someone operating a tour without a third-party organiser.

When you started this thread six weeks ago (not 'a few months ago') you stated
- some options will be posted for us to consider (this didn’t happen)
- will see what people are looking for before deciding how long the journey would be (this didn’t happen)
- will not be asking for money up front, people will pay their own way (now asking for money up front)
- close to the New Year will investigate options such as support vehicles (now bundled with no choice)

I also wasn’t impressed when you sent out an email with everyone’s email address as a ‘cc’ rather than a ‘bcc’, this is definitely not business netiquette. Mind you it probably wasn't a bad thing as it has enabled us 'very old cynical HUBBers' to have a full off-line discussion on the issues.

It's nice of you to thank Grant for "all his support". :) I bet he's equally glad. Now that you're accepting bookings on your second and third tours I hope you will be paying HU for your advertising.

Tim

PS: and by the way, this is NOT 'your blog', it's a thread on a forum.

Out of interest I checked the whois domain registration records for these two companies.

wowbiktours.com (Chris's domain) was registered 31 July 2009
wowwheels.com.au (Brett's domain) was registered 26 November 2009, i.e. eight days ago

So who is copying who?

The boring ancient old veteran fart previously known as Tim :)

Tim,

Thanks for the advice. Nothing against 'OLD' people at all.Is that what you consider yourself to be, or maybe just cynical!!!. Yes, we have a partner here in India, as is only fair..... I am not Indian. All our employees are Indian's, and YES they need to be paid for their services.

My advice to you is, if you did not like the price of the tour. DON"T COME!! Why try and convert others??? What are your motives?????

As far as bursting into tears, I feel once again that you are projecting the image you have of yourself onto me. Mate, after 20 years experience in guiding, it is only fair that I tell you, that yes, occasionally you come across people like yourself.!!! Think they know it all!!!. Been there done that!!!.Me, I just laugh it off, after all I enjoy my job, and don't take it personally. however being attacked publicly, is a different story.

However, you have made a few good points, and I will take note. Never too old to learn..

As far as your research is concerned.... World On Wheels was registered 3 years ago. Again you show your motives are less than moral. Our website, however,as you are aware was only launched recently.

Once again I say this to you. Of course I am going to react to being attacked. I am only human. IF YOU DIDN"T WANT TO DO THE TOUR, THEN WHY DIDN"T YOU JUST LEAVE IT AT THAT?????

Brett

World On Wheels

Writing as a HuBB member rather than a Mod, I feel it slightly disingenuous to belittle potential punters on this forum. Were I interested in joining a tour in the Himalayas, you'd be on my blacklist. Just MHO as a ex-potential-punter, not a Mod.

FWIW, it's very easy to sort everything yourself:

Indian Himalayas TBSdotCom

Also read the relevant bits in Mr Scott's AMH

Chris (definitely NOT Scott)

This thread is closed.
It has turned into a flame war, and we don't need that on the HUBB.