Germany to SE Asia via ?Pakistan?
 

Hi fellas,

heading east (on our motorbikes) from Germany next year
and we want to spend as little as possible (and China route with a guide etc sounds expensive), the idea was
to cross Turkey, Iran, and Pakistan and continue to India and onwards.

Balochistan area is notorious for being unstable for a long time now, so although our idea looks good on the map - going to south eastern Iran and continuing to south-west Pakistan alongside the coast - is it in fact reasonable?

Any latest news on the subject? Does this route sound feasable at all?

Since we intend to deal with visas as we apporach each border, we'd be in a big trouble if we had to change the route and head back to Iran, cross the Stans and somehow organize all the paperwork for China while on the road.

Or better plan the (our) second option ...-Turkey-Iran-Stans-China-Laos-... from here?!

So it seems it's best to get some reliable info and tips on this bit rather than to improvize (for THIS part of our rtw).

Thanks for your comments!

Marc

Hi Marc,

I will be going the Iran/Pak//India route towards S-E starting end of August this year. There seem to be no other option in Pakistan as the usual Taftan/Nalbandian/Quetty escorted route. I may share what I have done on preparation

Take contact with MAP (Motorcycle Association Pakistan) on facebook. They can help you answering questions (especially if you are concerned about security), and is always good to set up a network beforehand. There are a really good bunch of bikers, ready to help!

Be careful about VISA: Visa for Pakistan can only be organized in your home country.

Hope that helps a bit. All people I know who crossed Pakistan were absolutely amazed about their hospitality and safety was an issue which is exagerated from stupid common mass media. As for every kind of travel, especially in a group, keep low profile.

Gruss :mchappy:

Thanks for your comments, Arkean!
I already contacted MAP on Fb.
Got 2 replies so far, both saying "take the China route - is safer and has a nicer landscape"...
Will follow YOUR experience, too (quite curious ;-)!)

[QUOTE=Mad;509192]Thanks for your comments, Arkean!
I already contacted MAP on Fb.
Got 2 replies so far, both saying "take the China route - is safer and has a nicer landscape"...
Will follow YOUR experience, too (quite curious ;-)!)[/QUOTE


Probably MAPPERS suggested China route because it goes through the KKH which just cant be avoided.
Taftan-Quetta route is closer to Afghanistan and needs security. Balochistan is secure only once you are with the law enforcement officials.
I dont remember reading your post on the FB page of MAP, may i your name there?

I crossed Iran/Pakistan/ India route 2012, everyone has different opinion's but if you asked me would I do the same route again I would say no, travellers who cross with no issue then claim its safe are common place, "its only dangerous when the shit hits the fan" I have to say on my RTW trip Quetta was the most dangerous place I ever went and I felt extremely nervous. I have lost count of the bombings in Quetta (Balochistan) since I past through but its only luck that most get away with travelling through here. I certainly don't think it has anything to do with a mass media beat up of Pakistan, the reality is Quetta has many extremists and regular bombings, the police offer no real protection and probably make you more of a target so I wouldn't say you were "Secure" at all and this is just naïve to think so . This is just my opinion but don't be lulled into a false sense of security by others playing down the risks of travelling in this region. Good luck on your trip

There is violence, but luckily tourists aren´t often targeted. Can think of maybe 1-2 occasions in the past 5 years, when that has happened in that region. There is an elevated risk of kidnapping in some areas, though, and this is what the police are probably useful for – they won´t let tourists go into areas, that have too much risk. Moving on a convoy also makes kidnapping a bit more tricky for the people, who plan to do it.

It is a dodgy area, but fact still remains, that most travellers, who go through there, get through there just fine. There are risks in everything, that we do. Riding a motorcycle is a risk in itself.

May I ask, did you have any security-related issues in Quetta, or Balochistan yourself?

@mad

"and we want to spend as little as possible"

What you need is the great local hospitality you will meet in İran and Pakistan.
Natural beauties and local dishes will be a bonus.

Following escorts will be a good memory as a nice part of adv. travelling.

About my country,Turkey; gas (benzin)is most expensive here and below is the link to the website to choose private run camping areas inside Turkey.

Just click on the blue dots on the map to get pictures and more information about each of them.
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer...o.kfq-ffULX7qc

All the best.

Well, let's turn it the other way. The question is not about going or not. It's imho, more about how to cope with fear.

My guess is, we are mainly afraid from things we don't know. So, here some suggestions:

1. Bookmark and follow Iran/Pak/India english version of their online news, aka (few ones listed here)

Iran
Tehran Times Daily NewsPaper

Pakistan
The Express Tribune - Latest Breaking Pakistan News, Business, Life, Style, Cricket, Videos, Comments
Home - DAWN.COM

India
India News, Latest Sports, Bollywood, World, Business & Politics News - Times of India
Latest News, Breaking News Live, Current Headlines, India News Online | The Indian Express

2. Study some basics of their history, such as the pre/post british colonialist era in India/Pak/Bangladesh and how things evolved into current days.

3. Get deeper into the Balochistan Issue. The "extremists" written above are, as far as I got it, Baloch independentists. Foreigners have little to do with that story, except they see any political benefits if harming us. They take big risks as well, as Pakistan authority takes it very seriously when a foreigner is involved into something

4. Don't claim 100% freedom of movement when there are known restrictions. Adjust it accordingly. The two swiss policemen on rwt have been kidnapped while driving north of Quetta on their own (2012?), without paying attention to what local police said. Fortunately, they did escape and returned home safe.

5. Bring relaxing tea

And if $hit hits the fan, then $hit hits the fan. Life is anyway a deadly desease ;-)

Alterntive route?
 

Thanks for your comments, so far! :thumbup1:

I do not sh... my pants, but on the other hand, im not necessarily chasing danger.
So, im looking for actual experience, options and alternatives...

Has anybody done or heard of a possible route from southern Iran (Saravan) to southern Pakistan (Washap) - away from Quetta n things...?

Maybe, this could be an option, to cross border and then cross Pakistan further south?!

On the "dry" map, there is a road ;-)

Any info on that?

Well, I think the Taftan - Nalbandian - Quetty route is the only option we're allowed to. Probably because security is more or less provided (escort, Levis) Can someone share some more infos about it?

Taftan-Quetta is the only option. I have been hearing for decades that other border crossings will be opened but nothing has materialized.

A reminder to all our friends scared about the security situation; Pakistan is a big country with 180 million people like me raising families pretty decently. A few areas close to Afghanistan are unstable but rest of the country is fine.

Every biker is more at risk due to the heavy and unruly traffic rather than terrorism.

I never had any issues when I crossed but that is probably more to do with luck...of course I certainly didn't take unnecessary risks like a few of the other travellers did when we were there but for me it was more about being risk adverse as there is enough danger with traffic etc...no point as your luck will run out one day. I am not trying to put anyone off as that's certainly not in the sprit of adventure travel but more to point out that there is an elevated risk when travelling through that region and to be very cautious, after all it is one of the home towns of the Taliban. The risk is collateral damage from IED's, suicide bombings and targeted shootings...all you need to do is search "Bombings/Quetta" and you will see how many bombings over the last couple of years. Given that you will spend very little time there (Overnight) then the risk decreases of course and the risk of driving past potential targets on the main road are low...but never less they are there.


For more recent and accurate information see Crisis Watch. Homepage - International Crisis Group


Pakistan July 2015


Govt and military officials 13 June marked one-year anniversary of Zarb-e-Azb, military operation in Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA)’s North Waziristan agency, declaring ongoing success against militant groups, including killing over 2,700 insurgents. Militant attacks in FATA continued, including 1 June roadside bomb in S Waziristan that killed three, 8 June clash near Dattakhel in N Waziristan in which seven soldiers and nineteen militants reported killed, and 17 June bombing of primary school in Bajaur. Attacks on Quetta’s Shia Hazara community continued. Eight police shot dead in Quetta 6, 11 June; several police also killed in attacks in Peshawar and Karachi. Paramilitary Frontier Corps 1 June claimed to have killed thirteen Baloch militants involved in 29 May attack on bus killing 22 Pashtuns. In review headed by PM and Army Chief, senior civilian and military officials 27 May noted poor implementation of National Action Plan against terrorism, particularly regarding action against banned jihadi groups, foreign terrorism funding, hate speech and madrasa reform.

Omie, Arkean, Crappybiker - thanks for your comments and info!

Please bear in mind that we definitely do NOT question the decency and friendliness of the people of Pakistan. This is not the case of some typical ´Western´prejudice. When we were travelling South America, there were lots of ´scary stories´going around, such as the oh so dangerous militia folks (guerilleros) in the Putumayo region of Colombia. In reality it turned out that stories were just stories- we simply had a fantastic time and met the most wonderful people over there.

The problem is this: if Quetta is the region we HAVE to go through when passing from Iran via Pakistan to India, and the Quetta region is known for terrorist attacks, then we are seriously considering NOT to travel this area. Again, we´re not afraid of everything and everyone and fully understand there are risks when travelling, but pulling on the lion´s whiskers isn´t our idea of fun either. Baiscally we´re just trying to figure out where is that fine line between bravado and plain stupidity here.

Found this when googling for Quetta/bombing/2015:
Terrorism-related Incidents in Quetta - 2015

That was the reason I was asking for an alternative route further South, as we do not want to judge or miss a beautiful and interesting country just because there are some idiots out there.

Mad


It is certainly sobering reading that 2015 report and what it actually does is do away with is peoples opinions, thought's and one off experiences...Its just the facts in a very short period and that's only the issues that have been reported, that way you and you only look at the facts and make a more informed decision on the risk factor involved.


The only thing I would add was that I never wanted someone to say "At least he died doing what he loved"...many amazing and adventurous places around the world to ride without really pushing luck to the extreme, however if you do decide to ride that route you will at least do it whilst being very cautious and certainly not with rose tinted glasses...have fun what ever way you choose to go!....by the way we had some great hospitality in Pakistan especially the bikers in Lahore!

Hi Mad,

we were facing the same dilemma back in 2013. It's difficult to give advise on this one as you'll have to balance the risk yourself, but I can tell you about our expierence.

In our case it was the kidnapping of two Czech girls in Balochistan, a few months before our departure, that made up our minds to avoid the Balochistan route. Fortunately the girls have been released, but only very recently.

Instead we've taken the China-KKH route and have not regretted spending the money as we were able to ride the full length of the KKH (which starts in Kashgar) and did not have to backtrack (or take the Abottabad boat twice). Climate is also more pleasant to ride in, as the Quetta route can get unbearably hot.

That being said, ironically, during our stay a terrorist attack happened around Nanga Parbat, not far from our location, and nine trekkers were killed. This while a couple we met in Lahore had taken the Quetta route without a problem at the same time. Just saying you never know, it can happen everywhere. Although I'm convinced the risk is higher on the Quetta route.

Whatever route you choose, you'll enjoy Pakistan and it's people as it's a great country to visit. If you do decide to go the China route, you can try to hook up with a group to share the cost.