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Shipping gone badly wrong - time for a lawyer?
Not quite certain how to put this so I'll ask the question first and then explain why. I apologise in advance for spelling and grammatical errors, I tend to get quite upset when on this topic.
I think I'm going to have to seek professional legal advice over the trouble I'm having with a shipping company. The short version of the story is that I haven't received my bike despite various assurances along the lines that I'd get it "next week". This has been going for a couple of months now and I'm starting to realise that I may never see my bike and belongings again. It doesn't help that I may be out of the country for work reasons in the near future. Has anyone had problems like this in the past? I'm based in the UK, I guess rules and laws are different around the world but if anyone has any advice or suggestions I'd appreciate it. I've tried searching the HUBB but with no success - if this has been dealt with elsewhere then I'd appreciate a pointer in the right direction. For those who wish to know more, a longer version of the tale of my troubles: I decided to travel to the US to try and follow the Trans America Trail. Since I couldn't figure out if (and how) I could own and insure a US bike with no fixed address I purchased an F650GS Dakar here in the UK to ship over there and back. I did some investigations into shipping the bike and ended up going with sea freight with what I thought to be a reputable company. For various reasons I wanted to start my trip in Houston so that was the destination for the bike and I was told I would be able to collect it from a friendly BMW dealer in Houston on the 11th July approximately so I booked my flight to arrive there 16th July. The first thing to go wrong was presented as a minor difficulty - they'd missed the boat to Texas and my bike would to New York then by truck from New York so not arriving in Houston until the 13th July. No apparent problem. A day or so before my flight I was contacted and told that my bike was delayed in customs so wouldn't be in Houston until the day after I got there. A minor inconvenience, I thought. I arrived in Houston. A few days of useless phone calls and faxes followed. My bike was still in customs in New York. The US agent had no intention of shipping my bike to Houston in the near future and wanted extra money to do so. I flew to New York. One week after I'd arrived in the USA I finally caught sight of my bike. Had to pay out some more cash to get the US agent to release it to me but I was glad to get my bike and start moving. Time came for me to organise returning to the UK. I chose to use the same UK agents as had let me down on the outward bound for various reasons amongst which was the promise to recompense me for the additional costs I'd incurred getting hold of my bike. They told me where to drop my bike, so I duly handed it over along with the registration document, original at the insistence of these new US agents. That was 8th October. I got back into the UK 10th October. I received various emails from the shipping agent (UK side) saying how my bike will be back in four weeks time, etc. but did I have the registration document? No, I left it there (against my wishes). It'd had gotten lost. No problem, they'll sort it all out for me (or so they said). After the four weeks had passed and then an extra week to be sure I 'phoned them. Bike was still in US. I left it a bit longer and 'phoned again, (toward end of November). Bike still in US but because it had been delayed so much they'll air freight it back to me at no extra charge (via Paris, apparently). I'd get my bike by the end of the next week. Late December I rang again. Bike still in US. Air freight deal still on. Early January (2008). I rang and actually got a call back and a couple of emails. Bike still in Houston but would be trucked to LA and then flown to UK. Promise of some flight details in a few days. No flight details emerged so I rang again, today. Bike in LA. Might be on a flight late next week... I started to fume at this point but it got worse. I'm not 100% certain of what was said because I was so angry but I think they said an extra week for customs, so I might see my bike end of week after next. Over 6 months since I'd made the enquiry to the shipping agents and 3 months since I dropped it off. :censored: I don't know if this is typical, I'd assumed not. I'm pretty darn angry about the whole affair. I'm not going to say which shipping agent it is because I don't want to create any issues if I do have to take legal action. If anyone is thinking of shipping their bike anywhere and would like personal advice from me then please contact me by private message and I'll try to help. |
Name em & Shame Em!
I would send them a Link to your post on this site..... and say something along the lines of unless I get complete satisfaction, My Bike & some Compensation for messing me about, I will go so public about this you will get more bad advertising than you could EVER afford to Pay for!
People like them rely on a good name as well as the 'Big Business' side of their work. I cant see it doing any harm, its not as if your LYING about them, just stating the facts of what happened to you. |
Unless it is a shipping company that ships a lot of bikes, I doubt if they will be impressed with a posting on this forum.
Getting a good lawyer may be better. Don't you have insurance for that ? If so, call them and let them sort it out. Sometimes a letter from a lawyer will speed up things. Good luck getting your bike back. |
That wasnt the idea........
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now do you want to be NAMED as well? not just HERE but EVERYWHERE I can possibly put a link, a post an email? Mostly, they DO NOT want the Crap Publicity........:nono: Martyn |
to link or not to link?
I'm actually trying to cover both bases - I have emailed them to say that I will be posting what has happened but not naming them; I'm sure they'll understand that there is always that possibility. I didn't specify the HUBB but I think they'll work that out.
As to whether they'd care or not I can't say, they don't seem to care too much about customer satisfaction so far! I don't know if I'm making a mountain out of a molehill; I've never shipped anything before and don't know if what I've experienced is considered acceptable. |
insurance
Forgot to mention the matter of insurance. Shipping insurance was to be sorted out along with the shipping so therefore hasn't been (to the best of my knowledge). I don't think the holiday insurance I had would cover it, I could ask though.
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I sure would like to know who the shippers are, and the identity of the agents on both sides of the pond. I ask because I'll be looking to ship my bike back from New York [Port Newark] to Southampton, UK, at the end of May this year.
dougxr - Was the originallyintended port of entry Galveston (south of Houston)? Do you have a problem disclosing the parties involved? I for one would like to avoid them, if at all possible - BUT I've got the feeling that I have it in mind to re-use* the same shippers as you're complaining about here. If we're talking the same company doug, then if you want me to, I would be more than happy to raise your particular issue and concerns - at least with the UK-based agent. This would fall in line with the sort of commercial repercussion that Martyn is alluding to. And - now thinking it through at bit more from your point-of-view doug - I guess, at this late stage, you don't really want to p#ss the shippers off in the wrong way, perhaps by naming and shaming them here, or anywhere else for the time being. After all, I'm sure that you do indeed want to see your bike again one day, if at all possible! *I used their services in June last year for my bike's outbound passage to North America, which I must say all went very well. [Send me a PM if you want doug] |
4 posts? New handle to hide your idenity? .. What ever.
I think a contact in the USA local to where the bike was handed over could have a personal visit to see if the bike is still there and not stolen/damaged ... do you have the milage of the bike when it was handed over? I suspect the bike has been stolen - ... see if you can get someone to view the bike independant of the shippers .. if that cannot be done .. suggest to the shippers that you will report the vehicle stolen to both UK and USA authorities (you might also consider Mexico, Canada too) ... unless they can prove otherwise to your satifaction. Did you have shipping insurance? |
I dont think your making a Mountain out of a Molehill..
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They lost your BIKE Dude! or at least havent Delivered it YET..... Your Experience is about acceptable as Drowning Puppies in a public Swimming Pool! I must say you are remarkably calm about all this..... if this had happened to me I would have had my third nervous breakdown by now! Martyn |
name and shame or not
Keith,
I've decided to not publicise the name of the shippers for several reasons, including, as you suggest, not wishing to annoy them. I've only now put any of this on the internet because I've got so fed up with them. I realise that they've effectively got all the cards (since they have my bike, etc. and contacts). Yes, I believe the original port was to be Galveston but the 'ship left early'. I may well PM you tomorrow, I'm curious to know if it's the same company, but if it is then that'll make it seem as if they're picking on me! |
Hadn't really thought about theft
Frank,
I am actually new to the HUBB, the US trip was the only one I've ever managed, the rest have been pipe dreams. No offence taken either way. I hadn't actually considered the bike being stolen. Unfortunately it may now be too late to do as you suggest. I might have been able to beg someone in Texas to visit Houston, where I left bike, but I've been informed that my bike is now in LA because that's where they fly them from. But now you've raised the possibility of it having been stolen I'm more concerned than ever; I'm going to have to find a lawyer I guess, more expense. I hadn't bothered re-joining the AA since I don't have the bike back yet but I'm going to see if they can offer legal services. I don't know if shipping insurance ever actually got enacted, as I mentioned it was to be arranged by the shipping agents... Martyn, I am pretty upset and when it was going wrong on the outward trip I did at times feel physically sick as my holiday plans got wrecked but I think I've now run out of nervous breakdowns! |
For the insurance - do you have a recept? If you do then you have legally enacted your part .. if teh agents have not pass ed that no to the insurance company then they are liable for teh full cost of the biek and anything else you can reasonably think of .. at least that is what I' ask a lawer to go after ..
The Hubb is not the limit of HU .. we also have comunities .. and there would be one in LA .. Go to your local shipping agent - find out 1) where is teh bike now? 2) can they prove it a)- photo of the bike - both sides with a local paper - front page showing the date. AND/OR b) personal inspection by your representative (LA HU community person .. you'll need to organise it but I think the shoppers muight get the message that you want your bike back .. now! These people migh be trying for a 'consolidated' shipment - they pack a lot of stuff in one container. If the container is dropped .. I've seen the results .. not good !!!! So there are several possiblities .. you need to find out what has happened .. Theft is actually easier than damage .. buy another bike - quick and easy. Damage takes time .. and it is not the same - like geting another bike. |
Contact your insurance company and say the bikes been stolen, they will then get their reclaim and lawers on the case and it won't cost you a penny, as you have waited a REASONABLE amount of time for delivery and have tried to get your bike back to no avail.
You will also need to get a Police Ref No. If they haven't delivered and can't say EXACTLY when they will, then they are at fault. And for those that already know me I'm way used to dealing with people like that, I really enjoy it because at the Moment I'm dealing with DIRECT LINE (you suck) for returning my car in sh*t state after repairs, and the Financial Ombasman is on my side. Lee |
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Franks suggestions are great ones... 1. Find all the paperwork you have and do a bit of the research yourself about insurance, terms of shipment, bill of lading...once you've handed the bike over to them(and you have proof of that) and paid them(and you have proof of that), you have more leverage than you would believe. 2. Contact the HU community once you have some firm information based on step one...these guys are your extensions...and can be life savers...only if you give them the appropriate information to work with. I was in a similar situation before in shipping my bike to begin my trip and after one month i finally, after switching shipping companies, got my bike that was supposed to be air freighted to me...the agent was fired...the company was Lynden...and they wouldn't dare come near me afterwards. Thank God for Royal Air Maroc... |
Paperwork, etc.
Just a quick note as I'm on my way to work.
Several people have commented about insurance, I'm uncertain if they're referring to the UK vehicle insurance or shipping insurance. I do have valid UK bike insurance but don't know if it'll cover this - I'll definitely try. Shipping insurance was to be handled by the shipping agent and so I don't know if it happened, have no paperwork or contact info for the insurance company - if insurance was actually obtained. I don't have much in the way of paperwork and I haven't paid for the bike being shipped to the UK (have paid for US to UK). The company involved is very laid back about paperwork and kept saying "we'll sort it all out" and "no need to pay until after the bike is shipped" which is all very nice if everything goes as they say it will. It came across as being very self-assured and confident. So I don't have bill of lading, terms of shipment, etc.. I was a bit naive and I definitely would something want more solid in terms of written documentation in future. I do have a receipt from when I dropped the bike off with their suggested agents in Houston and have printed out a copy of their tracking website (which shows nothing useful). Especially for the US to UK trip a lot of the dealings were over email and mobile phone. To work (not by bike though). |
Shipping bike
This is the kind of story one does not want to read about just before sending your own bike overseas. I am looking at sendin my bike from South Africa to Ozz. How does one avoid these problems? Or is it just a case of poor management of a particular shipping which can happen within any company at any time?
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I wish I'd asked for documentation & independent insurance
The main thing I wish I had done was get more paperwork from the shippers, in the form of a written quote, a schedule of what was going to happen, a contract, anything and everything.
Sorry, obviously the main thing is that I wish I'd used a different company! But seriously I was slightly fooled into thinking that their relaxed attitude meant everything was under control whereas I now think it was poor management and a lack of interest. If I had paperwork showing what they said they would do and when then I'd've made a fuss much earlier but without that I felt I had to give them some time. Several people have raised the issue of shipping insurance, which I foolishly had left with the same shippers. If I'd had a separate and independent insurance policy then I could have called on their assistance. |
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legal expenses insurance
Jan,
I know the sort of thing you mean but I didn't but the extra insurance. As it stands I may have to pay out for legal assistance, but if it gets my bike back (or replaced) then it'll be worth it. I may think again about purchasing the extra insurance in future. I haven't spoken to the insurance company as yet since I didn't want to confuse the issue by getting another party involved at the moment; I'll wait and see what comes of an appointment with solicitors next week. So far the only progress has been that I've been told my bike is booked on a flight on the 22nd (I assume this month). I've also been offered that they could investigate hiring a bike for me. As yet I haven't taken up this offer since it doesn't really provide me with what I want and I'm not keen on using someone else's bike. |
I think the best idea right now is to call the company and provide you with proof that they have the bike within 24 hours, or you will file a police report naming them in possession of the bike. I feel the bike is gone and the shippers are waffleing, hope i'm wrong.
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Hi Doug,
Sorry to hear of your troubled shipping experience. I am not sure whether the shipping company you are using is the actual company itself or a middleman. The ports you mention seem to tally with my shipping experience to the US. It was not too bad but the bike was one week late and there could have been a problem with not being issued with the bill of lading. Anyway.... The rather guarded approach you take by not naming the company makes it difficult to provide advice. Just who is responsible for the return shipping? Are they UK based? If so then legal action in the county courts is actually very simple to initiate. The first step is to write a letter to the company involved setting out your grievances in full. You have to give them a reasonable time (or timetable) to respond and then you can recover the value of the bike and costs that you have incurred. A small claim in the county courts is not so expensive (£30 helped to recover my £1000 deposit on a house from a dodgy landlord a couple of years back). If the company is not UK based then I don't know what to advise - the UK county courts do not have any teeth. The same goes for any ombudsman - normally a useless waste of money. The lack of a formal contract is a bit worrying but not the end of the world. Do you have any correspondence? E-mails are acceptable. Tape a telephone conversation with anyone you speak to but advise them you are doing so. I would not be too bothered about annoying the shipping company. Be tough and show them you won't take any crap. Advise them in your formal letter (send registered delivery) that you have been very reasonable and that you will name and shame the company which will mean they will lose business from motorcyclists. Obviously if this is an agent that depends heavily on this then you will hurt them. If it is the shipping company then they probably won't give a monkeys. You can manage small claims on-line now. It is very easy and you do not need a solicitor. I would always use the sentence "I shall be forced to recover all losses, plus legal costs and any interest at a rate of 8% as defined under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984" in it normally shows you mean business - even if you haven't got the first clue!! Good luck. I hope this helps. If they are UK based then you can beat them - it is very satisfying to make these mongrels pay. It may sound like this is a lot of hassle and you don't want trouble but once this process starts it will be them that will be bothered. Cheers. Matt |
Doug,
I've been reading all of the posts in here and I believe that Matt's last post is a good way forward for you at present. As Matt says, the small claims approach will go to the UK guys that you know and can deal with right now (I think you have had two different US Agents and it is not at all clear to me who is responsible, overall, for your shipping) - that gets the ball rolling in a legal manner with minimum cost to you: the last time that I employed a solicitor directly, taking my instructions on an issue, his charge was £60 per hour and that was over 8 years ago. As I have understood your posts, the bike may just turn up in the next two weeks or so, OR it will become even more evident that it is pretty certain that it is missing on the US side of the pond (last "seen" in LA). In the meantime, you could try to get someone in the HU community over there to get to see the bike in the customs shed in LA, if you can give them enough information to work with. You can also continue to badger your various agent contacts, on a daily basis, to account for themselves - they will know that you are serious about this, and you can gather together all of the written stuff that you do have; emails and paperwork. Just my view based on what I see in the posts in here; sincerely hope that it helps and does not hinder (it's good to talk!!). Cheers, |
steps
Ron, Matt, Dave, etc.
I managed to get a few minutes of a solicitors time for free and he came up with pretty much the same advice as Matt has given. He did say that in the letter I should set out my requirements with a reasonable timetable. Whilst neither he nor I are particularly knowledgeable about shipping he did seem to think that the end of the month would be a suitable deadline, especially considering things like customs being outside of their control. I would rather see my bike sooner but I should have taken this step some time ago - as far as I'm concerned they've had their last chance but I haven't done it in writing. The company I hold responsible is a UK one. This is the company that I made original enquiries with and all communications have gone through them - the deal to ship my bike from US to UK was between them and me. They have chosen to use US agents to assist in this but as far as I have ever been concerned it has been the UK company that I engaged to d this and they agreed to do so. I realise that by not naming the company it may seem that I'm being a bit mysterious about the whole business but I don;t want to mess things up - this is one of the things I'll discuss with the solicitor. Also it's the only card I've got! I must admit I've probably been using the wrong terminology such as shippers, agents, freight forwarders, etc. because I don't have much experience in such matters. However since the agreement was between me and a UK company (who chose to then enlist / subcontract to other companies) the contract falls under UK legislation. Since it's the weekend I've decided to write a draft letter but before posting it wait and see what the outcome of any further solicitors advice on Monday may be. If the end of the month is considered a suitable deadline then the day lost here is not significant. I realise solicitors will be expensive but I may need someone to act on my behalf since I am supposed to be going overseas at the end of the month or thereabouts. The latest, more senior, person that I've spoken with at the UK company has said he will keep me informed on a daily basis. He seemed genuinely embarrassed by the whole affair but that doesn't do me much good. I didn't ask him about proof of the bike being where he says it is but I shall email him shortly with that particular request. To allow for time differences, etc. I guess a deadline of Tuesday morning here in the UK would be appropriate. I'm thinking a couple of digital photos emailed to me would provide at least some sign that the bike is where it is supposed to be. I'm probably trying to avoid thinking about the idea of my bike and all the stuff that was with it having been stolen or lost. Also I'm not certain what I'd do if they failed to provide the evidence - I agree that I'd have to report it as stolen but I can't say I'm keen on trying to explain the somewhat confused situation to police around the world. Other than drafting a letter I'll continue to organise the email communications I've had since I've been told that these can reinforce and expand upon the oral contract between me and the company. I've also started making a list of all the bits on the bike and stuff that was with it. Not much fun. Thanks for everyone's advice so far - it's been quite re-assuring to know that I'm not just being a whinging pom. |
Proof of bike - failed
The deadline I'd set for photos or other proof of my bike passed about an hour ago so I thought I'd fill in the next bit of the story. I received an email sent a few minutes before the deadline, apparently the response from the US agent was:
"The motorcycle has been crated and I can't take pictures of it." Doesn't exactly inspire confidence. |
Hi Doug,
At least they are not ignoring you and realise you are taking the kind of action which means they need to pull their finger out. Having the bike in a crate is progress in a way. Ask for copies of all documentation at this stage. Have they finally given a timetable for getting the bike back to you? Write to the agent to inform of action that you will take if the bike is not back by the date promised. I would mention that you are having to rent a bike/car in the interim and that you will be reclaiming the costs. Have you paid these mongrels any money yet? I'm with you in spirit on this one - feeling pretty angry about the whole situation. matt |
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Pin that UK guy to his promise to keep you informed, daily. As you are now, I would concentrate on the UK side of things, all as per the advice you have received - that's where you can keep the pressure on most easily and it is the UK "Agents" job to sort out the US side of things. |
Sounds like a right nightmare mate, I hope it all works out and you get your bike back.
It does sound like its gone missing and they are just stalling though. Good luck! |
You have more leverage than you think.
1. You have receipt that the bike is in their hands and is intended for shipment. 2. You have email confirmation that they acknowledge their are attempting to ship the bike, which essentially is an admission on responsibility to fulfill the obligation of shipping your bike...although a contract would be firmer proof of this obligation... How you position questions in order to gain their admissions currently will help you. Keep at it and document over email you conversations over the phone...document...document...document. It will pay off... |
Letter on its way
Again thanks to everyone for their advice. Whilst there's been several good suggestions regarding the letter that needs to go to shipping agent I've decided to ask a solicitor to write it for me. There are several reasons for me doing it this way, mainly because I don't want to make a mess of it but also it looks like it may have to turn into a claim, which I really don't want to mess up so thought it best to get a solicitor involved sooner rather than later. It seems a bit of a cop out (especially after all the advice that's been posted) I just want to try and keep things simple, for me at least, and not make any mistakes.
The essence of the letter will be as suggested by Matt, Walkabout and others. Essentially setting out a deadline for the bike to be returned and demanding a written timetable of events for that to occur. It is giving them a second (or third, or fourth, etc.) chance but the main thing I'm after is my bike back, a week or so from now is almost negligible compared to the time I've waited so far (I feel). Of course if the bike has gone missing then it all becomes even more unpleasant. I must admit to feeling uneasy about the "motorcycle has been crated" excuse for not providing photos. I forgot to ask the solicitor whether I could reveal the name of the UK agents involved, so I'll have to keep quiet on that one for the time being. But yes, I'm definitely making notes of everything that goes on, including printing out all emails, etc. just in case the computer goes wrong. There's not much more I can say at the moment. Have to wait and see how things progress. Does anyone know roughly how long it takes for a returning bike to get through UK Customs? Asking more out of curiosity than necessity but it would be nice to have a date to look forward to for the return of my bike (fingers crossed). |
when you uncrate....
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I'm sure you must have Pic's of the bike as it was on your trip to back up proof of condition before they took possession of it.... On the advice of your Solicitor I would also try to see if you can get a reimbursement of costs of shipping or some compensation for the messing around and being without your Bike for so long, although I am sure your Solicitor has already covered this? Martyn |
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missing contact & V5
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The way I found out was that I received a call from one of the other people there asking if I'd received the replacement V5 - but a few hours earlier I'd emailed the "keep me informed" guy saying that I had. I asked about the discrepancy and was told about the other guy having gone away. Anyway they apparently need to send the original of the replacement V5 to the US agents. I think I'll write out a receipt for when it's picked up. Perhaps I should apply for another duplicate now? Whilst I've said thanks for advice a few times (and it's always read) I must also say thanks for all the encouragement received and the chance to vent some steam every now and again! |
Its all part n Parcel of The HUBB!
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But seriously, it is sometimes the best thing that you can just 'let off some steam' and get some serious & maybe not so serious feedback to help your sanity. regards Martyn & I am sure, everyone else who reads this! :thumbup1: |
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Here I'd copy it .. and get a Justice of the Peace to certify it ... Vent away mate .. I'd have a fair old pressure built up by now too. |
How long to get the bike out of customs? I flew my bike back from Bogota, Colombia with Martinair into Stanstead.
The bike never arrived on the Friday it was scheduled to and instead arrived on Saturday morning. I was keen to get the bike to get to the HU meeting in Derbyshire - a good way to finish the trip. Except Saturday is not convenient for the shipping handlers. The person with the necessary rubber stamp does not work on Saturday. After arriving at 8am, I managed to get the bike reassembled and was on the road at 3pm. Being a UK registered bike helped but overall it was a dreadful experience. The weekend is not the right day to go and fetch it, however beware expensive storage fees at these cargo warehouses. Good plan to get the letter out. I am sure that will have a rapid effect. All the best to you Doug. Matt |
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As it is getting replacement V5 vehicle registration paperwork here in the UK isn't a problem, I think it's a case that the official records are held centrally (by the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency) and the issued document is considered a copy of that official record, which means that loss of the paperwork is normally more an inconvenience than a legal problem. It does cost UKP25 to get a replacement document which is pretty expensive but at least it's fairly easy to do, I just rang up and used a card to pay - the security comes from the fact that they only send the document to the address they hold on their records. It's frustrating that I could have done this some time ago, if I'd not been told to not do so. |
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The original deal I had with the shippers was that I would collect it from their warehouse as soon as it was available but they have since offered to deliver it to me, an offer I think I'll take them up on. |
thats a small result........
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If you can, also have your Solicitor or some other reliable witness present with a camera. Put it to the company ( via your Solicitor) that also it was a taxed, Mot'd, running bike when they got their hands on it..... and you want to make sure it is in the same condition now...... DO NOT let them just dump it and run. once it is out of their hands they can ( and probably will) say any damage/ faults was your fault. I am not trying to overstress you but tread carefully with these 'nice people'. Martyn |
Hi Doug,
My shipping was all arranged in Colombia with Martinair and a local shipping agent. There was no representative in the UK who could help. I suspect that you are in a different position having a contact here (however bad they have been to date). As it went the shipping side in Colombia was not easy - I was given a price of around $600 for a crate containing the bike. They were told right at the start that it was a bike. After I had paid to have it crated up and on the verge of delivering it to the warehouse the airline representative informed me that there was a different tariff for vehicles!! More than three times the initial estimate. It was their error but they would not take it for $600 and in the end it cost me just over $1000. Interesting fact - Colombia as the largest exported of cocaine in the World only had three sniffer dogs for Bogota airport and none available at the cargo section. When the crate was being checked for drugs everything had to come out again and they wanted to see it run - a bit tricky when the tank had been drained. Luckily there was just enough in the carbs to convince the inspectors. It was a really close call but ultimately worked out. Hope we can say the same about your situation Doug. |
Willing to look into it for you.
dougxr: I have a house in Galveston, Texas. I am on a Tugboat right now but get relieved on february 1st. I live in Austin, Texas but must check on the house in Gaveston as soon as I get home. I would be willing to look into the matter for you. I am a ships Captain and am familiar with the paperwork gauntlet. It could be the agent screwed up or the stevedoring company who loaded it. If it was on a container ship, the stowplan is usually made by a supercargo ashore. The plan is then carried out by the ships crew. If the shipping agent is worth a shit, the paperwork is routine. If the vehicle doesn't arrive on "said" date, it complicates matter. Customs are bureaucrats. Items like "HAZMAT" material, ie, Gasoline (excuse me "petrol") in tank can complicate matters but I'm sure you dealt with that on you end. I doubt if it was stolen. It may have been "missplaced" like luggage at an airport. I did not quite get if it was in customs in Galveston or did you say L.A.. If you do feel like you are getting "dicked" over, a surge of e-mail inquiries from this website would raise some eyebrows. If you are still at odds with them by the begining of February, e-mail me and I can see what I can do. I am familiar with some of the agencies and agents in the area. Good Luck and hope "not" to hear from you. Captain Smitty
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Whether it's stolen or misplaced there's another "disastrous" outcome of it having been damaged or destroyed. I'll have to wait and see. |
steam
Speaking of waiting and seeing...
Delivery has been delayed yet again. Apparently my documents were delayed getting to the US because of the incident at Heathrow airport (on 17th Jan 2007 BA038 touched down short of runway). Is that just a convenient excuse? I'd've thought courier and freight companies would have back up plans for delays of that nature; not only are there other airports after all but Heathrow was re-opened fairly soon. So instead of flying on the 22nd Jan the bike is supposed to be touching down 26th Jan. How do I know this? Because I rang them up to ask - they obviously didn't feel it worth telling me (steam). Anyway, that's 3 days delay (if it flies out 25th) surely my documents weren't delayed three days? It is just one excuse after another. |
It does sound like complete bollocks, got to say.
I guess you still have an absolute cut-off set for the end of this month, so hang in their Doug - I'm sure you are not going to let them off this hook! |
Hope you get it squared away.
On a lighter note, did you get to make your trek or did you blow it off (or do a different route?). I've done part of that route (through Arkansas and Tennessee) and it's amazing that it even exists in this day and age. Hope you got to see some of it.
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A Sign Of The Time
Hi dougxr,
I hope things work out in the end, I think it's a sign of the time in many industries, I work in Saudi Arabia and it's always, come back tomorrow, even when you were there yesterday. It's usually a minor cock up to start with and instead of holding their hands up they turn it into a major incident. Good Luck Ian:thumbup1: |
just be thankfull.......
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your Blood pressure must be reaching dangerous Levels by now though...:( Martyn |
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I managed to do various bits of the Trans Am Trail, not all of it though. Did Tennessee, Mississippi and a bit of Arkansas, a bit of Oklahoma, some of Colorado and some of Utah. It was all good but Colorado and Utah were definitely the highlights. Some of the bits I missed were due to the lost time at the start, it kind of used up all the spare time and money budgets. It was my first big trip and I've got a pretty long list of things that I'd do differently but I think that's normal! |
Delayed. Again.
Last week I received a copy of the air waybill and after some discussion it looked like my bike would be arriving in the UK on Sunday 27th Jan and that I should have taken possession of it the following Monday afternoon or Tuesday.
Of course, that's not what happened. Monday morning I got a 'phone call. The bike was still in US Customs (22nd to 28th?). Now booked on 31st January flight. Might get to UK 2nd Feb. I leave the UK on 1st Feb. |
What a saga Doug!
What's your confidence in the new delivery date? (Supposed to be back in the UK by the end of the month, wasn't it?). |
Doug, sounds like about 70 years worth of bad luck has dropped on you from a great height! what did you do wrong as a kid.... smash up a 'Hall of Mirrors' at the Fairground? :eek3: hope things are sorted in a satisfactory manner soon.
Malc |
Hi Doug,
Fingers crossed for the bike collection. I trust you won't be paying for this diabolical service. I would try to present them with a bill for a replacement bike/car rental for the period that the shippers failed to deliver. Hope you are going to name and shame soon. Good luck. Matt |
Well it's the 1st February - have you got your bike back? You have always refrained from mentioning the shippers by name but I won't be so reticent. Would they be Wallenius Wilhelmsen Line based in Southampton by any chance? I say this as I used them in 2006 as did Keith last year and for me at least everything went pretty well. I dealt with Tony White and he was on the ball with everything, keeping me informed either by phone or email during the weeks before I had to drop the bike off at the docks. I flew out and a few days later collected the bike at Port Newark. The dock handlers at Port Newark are VERY union minded and won't work a minute passed their allotted time - 4pm. I got there at 3.30pm and was read the riot act so had to scurry around finding difficult-to-find people with big chips on their shoulders. Then the security man on the gate decided that the last digit on the frame numbre wa a '9' and not an '8' so I couldn't have the bike. More arguments ensued before I was able to ride off at 4pm.
Whilst it only took ten days to ship the bike to Port Newark, it took a MONTH for the bike to get back. This is because the ship had to visit about five ports all along the East Coast before crossing the Atlantic. When the bike arrived, the battery was flat and a handler had roughly pulled a side panel off to get his jump leads onto the battery terminals. But at least I had my bike bike. The biggest problems we have is that most of us only do this once or twice ever and the collosal paperwork is mind blowing. Even the shippers/agents on both sides can't seem to agree with each other on procedures. I was puzzled to read that the bike was getting shuffled about the country by road and that it was initially to be collected by you from the BMW dealers. How does that work out? Why didn't the bike get delivered to the docks and you collect it from their? What has the BMW dealer got to do with the price of onions? For your return trip, why didn't you take it to the docks and just hand it over? (as I did) I don't get that. I hope it all works out for you though. |
Must be quick since I'm on the way to the airport.
The company I'm dealing with is NOT Wallenius Wilhelmsen Line. To be honest I wish I had used them, reports of their competence speak far more highly than of the company I'm involved with. No, no sign of bike. Reported to be stuck in US Customs in LAX. Have been told that Customs officer who stopped it is not at work today (or yesterday). I'd rather not let this end up being a guessing game trying to work out which company has my bike. I'm still trying to get guidance on whether I should reveal the name at this stage. |
Latest
Dougx, have just read the whole saga from your first to last post only to discover no ending as yet ( like reading a book only to discover the last page is missing). Would love to hear if you got your bike.
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Hi Dougxr
Any news yet??? Hope the silence means the bike is home safe and well. I have heard that the USA has a container shortage, and that this is resulting in delays with shipping, particularly out of Houston. Graham |
Bike in UK! (tho' I'm not)
Bike has made it to the UK!!
On 13th February I received some emailed photos of it being delivered to my parents house. Whilst it looks pretty much as I left it I haven't had a chance to actually look over the bike since I've been in Africa since 2nd February. BMW have extended (free of charge) the warranty on the three items I felt had failed whilst under the warranty period - to recap the warranty period expired before I could get the bike to a BMW service agent due to the shipping delay. So it all seems as if things might work out. I need to inspect the bike when I next return to the UK in April/May and then consider my next steps. I must admit that the relief of getting the bike back has made me feel less litigious but I may still pursue depending on the state of the bike. |
That's encouraging
Sounds like good progress then Doug - perhaps your parents can tell you enough about the bikes' condition to reassure you even more?
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Good to see it finally made it back..
Graham |
Company
Now you've got your bike back name and shame em!
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Hi all
I see that this thread has been followed with some interest and many of you are wondering who the shipping agent was in this instance. I am not a person to bury my head but instead I do like to tackle problems and overcome them. We, James Cargo, shipped the bike. Not without difficulty. Shipping isn’t always easy and most of the time requires that everything be in the right place at the right time. On this occasion it wasn’t. I will not elaborate on the forum as being a forumite myself, I believe that they are for information but should stop before things could become head butting. Being a overland biker myself, I am the first to appreciate what biking is all about. Many of the companies staff are bikers as well. And 100% of the staff who are involved with bike shipping at James Cargo are bikers. With this in mind please appreciate that we don’t enjoy having a bike in our warehouse that we are restrained from moving but unfortunately in this one instance our hands were tied by circumstances beyond our control- . Best to all Roddy Warriner (on behalf of James Cargo Services Ltd) |
I'll have to remember " James Shipping " and make a point of never using them .
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Hmmm, as James Cargo flashed up on this site as a reputable shipper for a future trip to N America, i feel some sort of general explanation as to these "circumstances" would be in order to your fellow bikers. |
Just my initial thought on "the post"
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The problem, now that you have raised your head over the parapet, is the lack of explanation. I reckon, because you are in business, that you realise this already! But, it may be worth dealing with "circumstances beyond our control" (as a minimum) within this thread. |
Yes, well done Roddy for having the balls to come onto the forum to partially explain the sorry situation, I am sure that many people have used James Cargo without this sort of mishap, and I am sure for the benefit of business the company will do its best to avoid any further occurrence.
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Firstly good to see your bike is back in the UK Doug. I can see it was a complete nightmare and you were very restrained not to name and shame. I suspect that I would not have been so reasonable.
Fair play to Roddy for admitting it was a bad situation but it seems like the buck was passed to the circumstances beyond our control - I reckon a further explanation is needed if the reputation of the company is to be salvaged in the eyes of those that have followed this one. I wonder how much money was paid for this service? Obviously nobody sets out to create a situation like this but in my eyes it is the mark of a good company how they respond when things go wrong. The ball is in James Shipping's court. |
Just to play Devil's Advocate, could Roddy be diplomatically saying (or rather, not saying) that paperwork wasn't probably filled out or there was some other customer-related problem? Not saying that was the case, but I think we should recognize that these guys can't wave a magic wand to get bikes out of customs.
In any event, kudos to Roddy for stepping up and identifying the company, and unless there are similar reports from other customers, we might want to give these guys the benefit of the doubt and chalk this up as an unfortunate but isolated incident. |
The way I see it [ and if I remember the thread correctly ] ,they screwed up on the way out to the USA and they screwed up again on the way back .They or their US counterpart lost the customer's vehicle registration , mislead him about shipping times and ports and didn't bother to communicate in a timely manner .
How many weeks, sorry MONTHS was the bike in shipping ? I've been wondering how to get a vintage bike back from Blighty , I don't think I'll bother with this crowd . Not only was there no apology but also no explanation . Except " circumstances beyond our control " - not really good enough is it ? Kudos to Doug for letting us know about all this . |
Hi All
Thanks to all who have been understanding. As I said in my original post though, I don’t think that it’s a good idea to go into detail. It just results in head banging and a potential never ending debate. Shipping / Airfreight can often be circumstantial and unfortunately when anything in shipping doesn’t go smoothly, delay is a certainty. For example the BA plane that had a not too unfortunate crash landing at Heathrow had a far greater knock on effect that people can understand. Planes take off and land at Heathrow every 2 minutes so you can imagine that, when Heathrow is closed for half a day, how many aircraft, cancelled or diverted end up in the wrong place. So it’s not a case of cargo going on the next flight, but it can take days to get all of the aircraft back to the starting point. During hurricane season in the gulf, the Captain often turns the ship back in Charleston or other East Coast Port to avoid the hurricane and discharges the Houston cargo at an East Coast port, leaving us to sort the problem out. On that note, anyone out there into general shipping? If the weather that has been forecast for the south of England over the next 48 hours hits as badly as they predict then there is over a 75% chance that all Southern and Eastern English ports (Soton, Felistowe, Hull, Tilbury etc will closed at some point, even if only for a few hours causing port congestion and delays of up to a week. I’d like to assure everyone, especially those who have used or will use us, that we do everything that we can to foresee potential problems, either shipping related or maybe related to your trip itself. We pass on our past customers experiences, and our own to our new customers where it relates to their trip. We will always admit when someone asks us to ship a bike on a route that we have not previously covered that we don’t have experience on that route. If anyone has any questions regarding their own shipping, feel free to email me directly. We will answer best we can Best Roddy |
Fair play Roddy, you are still talking with your potential future customers on here.
That is a step further than, say, Touratech UK, who get slagged off on this website quite frequently. I guess we will have to wait a bit to see what Doug has to say. In the meantime, and slightly off topic but not by too much, I wonder if you have any views about this particular thread "Trip Transport", on the lines of this subject:- http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...ga-forum-33346 (not that it has caught the imagine to date, with no replies and about 31 "reads"!). It just struck me that there could be a dedicated thread per shipping agent, but I have suggested a web sub-area per geographical location. |
Hi Dave
Yes, hopefully you will be a future customer. realistically, we employ 36 people and I'd like to keep them that way, we'll do our best. I've replied on your link to keep it on topic. Best Roddy Dry roads - pleease |
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Hopefully this thread has flagged a warning to us all. Me as a customer and others as shippers. My thoughts are - 1) not to give originals to shipping companies to send with the goods .. be that rego or loading bills .. get good colour copies and let them have those. At least get your own very good colour copies. 2) communicate. If you have not heard anything - ring and ask. Even if the shipment is not due for 2 weeks - ring and ask 'how is it going?' That may prompt them to tell you of any problems .. some times things get skipped due to pressure. Whatever .. talk to them .. and do realise you are not talking to the person actually doing the work .. if you can do that then there would not be too much of a problem. Things get filtered beween one person and the next .. at the top the distortion can be large. Just look at the politicians! There may be many reasons why the details of this particular event won't be public. I'll not speculate nor request those details. Just be wary of ANY shipping. Keep it clean, and legal .. even over clean and dot all the i es ... make certain all is in oder then do it again. |
invoice received
I've returned to the UK and given the bike a quick look over. I am having to wait to get the key from the guy who received the bike on my behalf whilst I was away.
Not too impressed with also finding an invoice for shipping. It says it's for the amount originally quoted but doesn't take into account the extra costs I incurred getting the bike in the US (I was told at the time this would be reimbursed) and definitely doesn't take account of the fact that delivery was so late. Back to the solicitors office ASAP. Someone queried as to whether I'd perhaps erred with the paperwork my end. Unfortunately I chose to accept guidance from the shippers and had been told at each time of asking that everything was in hand - until it was too late. |
This is indeed a sorry episode, sorry to hear about the latest developments.
It might have been me that raised the possibility of paperwork errors; sorry, it was meant only as a theoretical possibility given the potential complexity of the shipping process. Sounds like you've been pretty proactive and I don't see what you could have done better/different (other than, with hindsight, chosing a different shipper). |
paperwork confusion
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I wouldn't know where to start trying to sort something out like that from scratch. for example, one of the other shippers I'd originally contacted (but did not use) was convinced that I would need a carnet for the US... They weren't a motorcycle shipping specialist but it shows how complicated it can all get. I'm sure some browsing of the HUBB would aid but I find it difficult to find such information amongst the wealth of other info. Wonder if something like a wiki would be the best thing? Off topic... |
First Post
G Day All -
My First post! Sorry this had to be the thread! I think some basic points in issues are truly in order from "james Shipping" - ie: ROB for future customers.. I think a simple 1, 2, 3, 4 step procedure with notes on possible issues and things to aviod! 2. Now that the bike is home - a honest what the issue was is in hand.. If ROB can't due to possible work/legal issues then have someone,a 3rd party, all of the sudden join and give details on the nightmare/dream they had nast night! insert: I do aggree that it is 10/10 for Rob to come forth! But the ID of the shipping company MOST likely would have come out/etc,etc.... Now nothing against Rob - BUT if the company really wishes to show the world they would in some form or fashion - state the issue and come clean and give a guideline for future travelers to use... The real issue is in there somewhere already - and if legal channels where ever enlisted - well - it would come out and cost a company a lot more! So - a guideline in steps and possible issues for those NOT in the KNOW would be more then welcomed! Infact I would be one to ask James Shipping to please educate - this would be a perfect time... In any event - this is total BS if the real issue can not be said! peace! |
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