Australia to Europe: Prices not adding up
 

Hi,

I will be heading back home to Sweden later this year and would like to take with me a 2011 Triumph Tiger 800 that I purchased here in Australia.

After reading several threads here on HU forum and looking at the database for the freight prices, they aren't adding up.

There's several reports quoting $500-700 AUD (that's ~300-450 EUR or 400-550 USD) for transport from Australia to somewhere in Europe (mainly Germany and UK).

Well I have received several quotes so far and they are all near the $1500 AUD mark or more (not including insurance or crate) and these aren't home to home, rather port to port or depot to depot.

Anyone cares to give their opinion and try to figure out what could be going on?

From the database here there one transport that just sounds too good compared to the quotes I am getting. This one, of 2 motorbikes (Tiger's as well) for the very low price of $634 AUD plus $160 AUD for insurance. Each crate was 2CBM. Link: http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/fro...dom-april-2004

I've got quotes for the port of Stockholm but also for depots in London. Waiting for freight to Germany but from what it looks like it will end up being the same.

On another note, I read that several people used Qantas for air freight. Anyone knows if they are still doing it and how much it would cost approximately? Weight is around the 250 kg mark.

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An example from a quote I got from Brisbane Port to Stockholm Port, 46 day transport, by Australiatrade.com

Our current price includes
Receive your packed and labeled goods into our nominated Brisbane bond store
Our bond store will measure your cargo and advise us how many cubic metres you dropped off
Book container park slot fee
Cart 1 x 20ft empty container from Brisbane container park to our Brisbane bond store
Pack your goods into 20ft container
Book wharf slot fee
Cart 1 x 20ft full container from Brisbane bond store to Brisbane wharf
Lift container off wharf and stow on ship
Brisbane port charges
Ocean Freight Brisbane wharf to Singapore wharf
Transfer in Singapore
Ocean Freight Singapore wharf to Stockholm wharf
Cart Stockholm bond store to Stockholm bond store

Sub Total A$ 340.00 per cbm /1000kgs x ? cbm** (min 1 cbm)

Agency Fee
Shipping Documents
Australian Customs Export entry
Ph, tax, tolls, emails
Sub total A$ 300.00

You will be required to pre-pay the overseas landing charges here in Australia
Tugs, Pilots and Stevedores
Discharge container off ship and onto wharf
Cart 1 x 20ft full container from Stockholm wharf to our Stockholm bond store
Unpack your goods out of 20ft container
Cart 1 x 20ft empty container from Stockholm bond store to Stockholm container park
Sub total USD $ 200 per cbm x ? cbm (min 1 cbm)

Import Service Fee
Sub total USD $ 40.00 per cbm x ? cbm

Delivery order/admin fee USD $ 140.00
IMO Administration Fee USD $ 80.00
Environmental fee: USD $ 60.00
Sub Total USD $ 280.00

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In this case, 1CBM (which wouldn't be enough for my bike) would cost $640 AUD + $520 USD = $1305 AUD (830 EUR or $1020 USD). From the example I gave above, their crates were 2CBM each and for two of them they paid 1/4 of what I'm getting quoted for.

Thank you!

Remember also that if you are an EU citizen bringing in a non-EU-registered bike, you will have to pay customs fees on it. Might be better to sell it in Australia and buy another one at home.

Thank you. Yes, I am aware that there will be import fees when bringing it back home.
I'm simply trying to figure out how much shipping would be and then add on top of that import fees.
It is a really good bike and I got it for a very good price. Replacing it back home would cost 25-50% more than what I paid for it here so I think it is worth the hassle of searching around for the best quote.
I'm already getting informed regarding the import process back home.

If anyone can shed some light on why the quotes I am getting are so much higher than those reported here by previous members, it would be great.

Probably wasn't considered very low 14 years ago. Also to compare prices need same dates and same destination.

Sure, it's been some time. But 4 times more now for one bike instead of two?

Like I've mentioned on my first post, I got quotes to London as well and the prices are similar.

I'm prepared to comment.

Irrespective of prices from 2004, you have a quote (at least one I gather) for this year, 2018. They cannot be compared directly which, in itself, begs a question concerning the value of a database of historical prices.

Your quote is for a container-based method of transportation: IMO, the shipping company will view your "trade" as being of little value to their business = a one-off form of customer who is not going to bring in repeat business.

World trading is dynamic and changing: this is my point above about comparing historical prices, but it also means that there is a movement toward not shipping globally, when merchandise can be manufactured and distributed more locally - in your particular case, why should a Triumph motorcycle made of pieces produced in Thailand, labelled as a British product be sold in Australia just to be re-exported to Europe at a later date?

For your specific question: it is best to ask Qantas about their air freight current policies. What ever views people may put forward on here, that company will know their current policy.
Certainly, it would be worth comparing air freight versus shipping by sea, if only because they are directly comparable in this specific year and "space".

Dave, if that would be the case, then nothing would move around these days.

Shipping companies thinking like that sounds very anti-business for them. After all, their business is moving things around. Why would they inflate their prices so that people stop shipping their things somewhere and instead buy new at their new destination?

And I didn't get one quote, I got 5-6 so far and they are all pretty similar.

$1500 AUD to move 250kg worth of motorcycle in 2018 vs $600 AUD to move 2 * 250 kg in 2004?

Either the price for the 2004 freight is wrong or maybe they just got the deal of the century.

Either way, I'd still like to be sure about this before having to sell my bike simply due to shipping expenses.

Not necessarily the deal of the century - maybe just the deal of the year. An agent had some free space in a container, gave it away to a customer who showed up just in time, did all the legwork and made no trouble for the agent, for basically half what they would charge a random walk-in-off-the-street customer. It absolutely can happen.

EDIT: There is also this: http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-18-962_en.htm

"The Commission's investigation revealed that, to coordinate anticompetitive behaviour, the carriers' sales managers met at each other's offices, in bars, restaurants or other social gatherings and were in contact over the phone on a regular basis. In particular, they coordinated prices, allocated customers and exchanged commercially sensitive information about elements of the price, such as charges and surcharges added to prices to offset currency or oil prices fluctuations.

The carriers agreed to maintain the status quo in the market and to respect each other's traditional business on certain routes or with certain customers, by quoting artificially high prices or not quoting at all in tenders issued by vehicle manufacturers."

So it may seem anti-business, but it's entirely possible that a shipper - not just a new-car carrier, but any shipper - doesn't want your business... from shady behavior to something as innocuous as not caring to spend as much admin time on a single customer as they spend on a permanent running contract.

Comments requested, comment provided
 

"A price" is neither right nor wrong, it is simply "the price" was one of my points.
2004 prices, all of 14 years ago, are not pertinent to your current decision yet to be made.

My other point was to refer to a movement toward anti-globalisation to give it another phrase. Evidently, shipping companies would not subscribe to such a movement and would lobby against such concepts, as all businesses tend to do via trade groups etc etc.
The previous posting refers to the lobbying aspect and other factors such as downright criminal monopolistic behaviour.

But none of this gets you further forward in deciding the personal economics of shipping or selling.

Thank you both.

True, it does not help me decide directly what to do but at least is pointing me more towards air freight.

I'm going to the airport today and make some questions.

I got a new quote that makes a lot more sense now. This one does not include crating the motorcycle (which I now suppose is also inflating the other quotes a lot).

This came through cargoclear.com.au:
For each CBM the rate is 130 USD
Export charges and other fees from Australia are 310 AUD

So shipping a 2CBM crate (which I think should be enough for my bike) would cost
2 CBM - 330 AUD - 210 EUR - 260 USD
Fees - 310 AUD - 200 EUR - 240 USD
Total - 640 AUD - 410 EUR - 500 USD

This of course excludes the cost of crating and dropping it off in Brisbane, insurance and port fees in Stockholm.

Still a lot cheaper than any other quote I got so far.

I can probably get a crate for free or for very little money. Driving to Brisbane from where I am is about 1h30min. Then comes insurance and port fees in Stockholm which I will try to find out.

Once you have all your numbers done... add 10% as something will always be more expensive than you thought.

Thanks. I normally add 20% so I don't have to shoot myself in the foot :D

Always a problem to figure out why one out of 7 quotes is an outlier and then to try to work out what expensive part of the deal they are not including in their price.

For instance, certification that there is no dangerous goods concerns with the shipment would be the responsibility of the firm offering a complete packing service, but for the cheap DIY quote, that might be on you to provide and it might be expensive and a pain to arrange

Before you go any further I advise you to find out how much it will cost to import, and register the bike in Stockholm.

I gave up trying to register a 2003 Hinkley Thunderbird here in France when the preliminery actions passed 1500 euro mark. Sent it back to UK and sold it there.

That's true Tony. One difference I know for sure is the crating and costs involved with that. One of the quotes I got was showing all the details and only on crating and associated fees they were charging about 700 AUD. Don't know the specifics of the other quotes.

I did ask this agent several times if the quote he is giving me includes every single payable fee and tax in Australia, minus the crate, crating and crate delivery to their depot. If that's indeed the case, I'd be fine with it. I can make that happen for 100 AUD, easily.

Now regarding the fees/taxes in Stockholm mentioned by "oldbwm", I have just yesterday got an email back from Customs in Sweden and got the good news that once the bike has been at least a year under my name here in Australia, I'm free to bring it back home in Sweden and pay no taxes at all on it. This includes both zero customs tax and zero VAT tax. If there's any costs on paperwork, I'm sure they will be very low. None were mentioned though.

Now a problem that might come up is that my visa will expire a couple weeks before the 1 year anniversary of having bought the bike. I wonder how Customs in Sweden would interpret my purchase invoice. Would they ask me to see my return flight back home and use that date or would they only look at the date the bike arrives in Sweden and I put the papers in for it. If it would be the second option, then that wouldn't be a problem since the bike would probably take around 2 months to arrive (not a problem since it will be early January in Sweden and very cold).

This way bringing the bike with me back home would be a no brainer since I skip paying any import fees and duty on it. Getting it road worthy and plates in Sweden would be about 400 AUD - 330 USD - 270 EUR and that from all the info I gather so far would be the only costs to it (taken that the bike has been at least one year under my name).

@nampramos, the estimates you're getting are similar to what I'm getting from Sydney to the UK. The shipping database here on the HUBB doesn't really have enough data in it to accurately predict prices I'm afraid.

I just bought a small apartment and in 2004 it would've cost about a third of what I just paid for it. Some things have become a lot more expensive in Australia over the last ~15 years.

The cost that I've been quoted is so far is sitting at about $1,250 for sea freight but that excludes crating and collection or storage on the other side. It includes the freight forwarded handling most of the paperwork, etc. and having their UK contact do customs clearance for me on the other end.

See attached for what's included in their quote. I put that together for my own purposes after they sent various costs. I won't publish the company's name as I think there are "mates rates" involved as I was introduced through a work contact. They don't normally offer this service.

As you'll see the actual freight charge is minuscule in the scheme of things so the number of bikes has little impact on the cost. Exchange rates are also relevant as in my case by far the bulk of the cost is clearing the freight in the UK, and that's charged in GBP. I doubt I'm getting any savings there.

Happy to discuss in more detail via PM if you like.

Be careful on this one. As mentioned in my other reply this has been the most expensive part of the exercise. Getting it to the UK is 1/3 of the cost. Getting it into the UK is 2/3!

That's a pretty good price per CBM. The best one I got was 130 USD per CBM from Brisbane to Stockholm.

The rest was quoted at 310 AUD for all paperwork on Australia side.

I need to go to the airport and talk with them as well and see what the prices there are now. Was going to do that tomorrow morning but got back from work a bit ago and once stopped at the garage discovered that I got a puncture on the rear tire of my bike. Need to go fix that tomorrow morning instead.

I think the per CBM rate is really the only place I'm getting a discount. I'm also now talking to another forwarder who has good experience with bikes and he's been excellent. I'll publish the name if I go further with him. His estimates so far are the inverse. More expensive departing, cheaper on arrival.

I'll be interested in getting all the info you can share. Thank you!

Have you looked at air freight too?

When will you be shipping the bike?

I always tell people when thinking about flying thier bike..to thumb nail it as 1.5-2.5 the cost of thier flight..
easy math too...
average person weighs about 70-100kg... tiger weights 250 KG = i.e 2.5 times the weight...

it is also well accepted these days the boat is not that much cheaper then flying

Thanks for the tip!

What happens when you fly return, Brisbane - Stockholm for only $850 AUD (~530 EUR, ~665 USD)? That rule still applies? :D