Traveling with 2 people with 2 bikes registered to 1 person to South America
 

Hey guys,

Looking for some advice. Im trying to sort out some logistics for a trip to South America from North America.

I have a friend that would like to join from Australia and he has limited time.
An idea i had was to purchase a bike in the States under my name, have him ride down with me to South America and when he has to leave i can sell the bike.

Would there be any problems with us crossing borders? If we crossed together and both bikes had paperwork in my name and he was just riding one.

Could this have any problems for us later on?


Thank you.

It's complicated as you will discover....
 

Leighd,

Understand that I am under considerable restraint here because posting bad data might end up costing you time and money. Here is what I know.

I have personally traveled South America, with rosa del desierto, riding one bike and me the other and both bikes registered in my name. Some countries only allow one vehicle per tourist and can issue only one temporary vehicle import permit (TVIP) per tourist. But, you might work out paperwork permitting your Australian friend to ride one of your bikes and this might or might not make a difference at the borders you will cross.

There is also the consideration of insuring the bikes. If you have South American insurance in your name for both bikes and your friend, riding one of your bikes, has an accident, you and he might not be insured. This could get very dicy as you will most likely be purchasing insurance country by country. And, many insurance agents operating at borders will literally tell you anything to sell a policy and yet when you need insurance you find out you have been misled, and remember, the small print on your insurance policies will be in Spanish or Portuguese.

Next, depending in which State of the United States you purchase a bike for your friend, there may or may not be complications regarding selling the bike without you/seller and buyer being physically present at a motor vehicle department in that State, or in some other State and certainly not in a foreign country that specifically prohibits selling the bike and then there is the issue of returning the plates to the State where the bike is registered or not and other issues which I suggest you research on your own. I have no vested interest in convincing you one way or another, I just want to lay out the facts as I know them, so you have half a chance of avoiding the many pitfalls your plan suggests. This gets very complicated when you understand that when you enter a foreign registered bike in many South American countries on a TVIP you agree not to sell the bike in that country. I have a lot more to say on this issue as do many others who post here.

Assuming you have a bike that you are riding to South America - how are you going to negotiate the Darien Gap? You cannot ride from Panama to Colombia - you must fly or ship you and your bike(s) from Panama to a South American country. You need to check shipping companies policies regarding shipping more than one vehicle for a tourist into countries that only permit one vehicle per tourist.

It might be better for you to ride to Mexico, have your friend meet you in Mexico and buy a bike in Mexico, tour Mexico and then sell that bike in Mexico and do that in each country. Carry soft luggage that can be used on various bikes, I know several guys who have covered the cost of their whole trip by buying and selling bikes in each country they ride. Remember, always sell for more than you paid and trade up in each country. This plan requires a lot of time, but the bike dealers/agencies will always have second hand bikes for sale and will speak English and do all the paperwork for you. It is best not to buy from an individual for you won't know if the bike is stolen or illegal.

Now, that said I am sure my friends here on the HUBB will have other ideas, so keep asking and follow the advice that is right for you.

Hope I have helped a little. We are at our ranch in Flagstaff, Arizona now but live in Argentina and have a motorcycle parking business. see our ad on the Hubb.

Eat, drink clean water and buy insurance. xfiltrate

PS rosa del desierto is my official wife and that did make a difference at the borders.... - perhaps you could "officially marry" your Australian friend. I added this postscript after original submission to avoid being censored. You see, many of my ideas are just out of this world and not welcome within the framework of "Horizonsunlimited" which in retrospect might not be true.

update?
 

Leighd,

Just wondering if you are still planning your "trip to South America from North America?"

Have you discovered any innovative answers to your questions? Shipping two bikes registered in the same tourist's name from Panama over/around the Darien Gap into South America might be/might not be doable, I would like to hear opinions of others.

xfiltrate

There are a heap of people driving around in a vehicle they do not officially own by using a poder made out by the legal owner and they seem to do this for months ofr years without apparent problems. HOWEVER there are a couple of countries that don't like poders and there is always going to be the niggling problem of whether the insurance you have is going to be honoured in the event of an accident. No good solid answer

"Poders"
 

Thanks Tony Lee, yes I am familiar with "poders" and the problems I have noted are three.

1. Some countries do not recognize a "poder" (permission to operate a vehicle/moto owned by another) without an *"Apostle" unless the poder is issued within that country.
This gets complicated because that mandates one would have to be within the country to obtain a "poder."

2. Depending on, not only the country policy toward "poders" there appears to be political district policies - these usually in districts where there have been problems with motorcycle riders - Colombia- Mexico with motorcycle assassins.

Depending on the current scene federal and local authorities are easy or hard on "poders." Motorcycle assassins/criminals etc are not going to be legally associated with their motorcycles and therefore in certain "districts" with recent problems related to motorcycle riders might just find any means to confiscate a bike and incarcerate the rider. It is sort of like "Life is like a box of chocolates - you never know what you might get." Sorry for the Forest Gump reference but it somehow seemed very appropriate here.

3. The nagging insurance question. Short of demanding a translation of the policy, a tourist might not ever know if a bike entered into a country under his/her name but ridden by another is covered. I know of several cases that owners purchased insurance and the rider and the owner were not covered and other cases where the rider purchased the insurance and the owner and the rider were not covered. Usually a reputable insurance company will be willing to draft a letter stating that an identified non owner rider and the owner will be covered.

To obtain such a document or documents in the case of more than one insurance company the owner needs to plan for extra time and effort during each purchase of insurance. The policy sellers usually do not have authority to write such a document. The request will be forwarded to a supervisor - and it might take days to get a response.

Like it or not the above is part of the vagaries of international motorcycle travel. According to Occam's razor there are always two solutions to any problem and the simpler is the best. As applied here - ride and insure your own bike, do not allow anyone else to operate it when riding Mexico, Central or South America and always buy insurance in your name and make sure the VIN # of your bike and your name are correctly written into the policy.

xfiltrate
*Apostile - certification by one country that the document is valid in another country - to travel internationally an apostle for the poder must be individually directed to each country. Obtaining an apostle is difficult as a notary and government officials are involved - Officials who might look very deeply into the provenance of the owner, rider and the bike.

why not just
 

get your aussie mate to buy a cheap KLR $1000 to $1500 in California or wherever you are , get an address and register it in his name , easily done , , the ride it as far as it goes , sell it or give it any when done , still way cheaper than any tour and it's in his name ,

Your strife will be in the USA:
A spouse may drive/ride a vehicle registered to the other spouse - but no-one else: so, having three bikes, all in my name, my wife can ride any of them - but our 17-year-old daughter could not.
She can legally operate a vehicle (has a driving licence/permit) but as a minor cannot sign a registration document. And she cannot operate a vehicle registered to either of her parents.
Here in Aus, her car and two of her bikes are in my name.
This caused a spiral of emails within the Department of Officious People Doing Whatever in the USA: it was described as a "bureaucratic anomaly to which there is no bureaucratic solution".
Of course it's a rule which is probably never enforced - but it exists nonetheless.