South America without a license plate
 

Currently my motorcycle is only insured with temporary insurance and therefore I don't have a plate for it. Does anyone know if this will give me a lot of trouble in Central or South America assuming I purchase all of the proper insurance as I go?

Thanks a lot.

Lost Plate
 

Blue Sky, I like your screen name.

Need a little more information to properly answer your question.

1. Is your motorcycle legally registered in a State of the United States or in a foreign country? yes/no

2. If so, is it just a matter of a lost or stolen license plate? yes/no

If not, you have no valid insurance even though you have purchased it locally.

Local insurance companies are authorized to sell insurance for any vehicle - but if there is an accident involving personal injury or significant property damage... the insurance company will investigate the "legality" of the motorcycle operating in country. If, in any way, the insurance company discovers that the motorcycle is not legally registered and does not legally belong to the insurance rider, you have no insurance coverage.

I suggest you order and wait for a new license plate if possible. Otherwise you may have problems crossing Central American borders and you definitely will have problems flying your bike over the Darien and crossing South American borders. Remember all mainstream transport companies do check and demand proper title for transport by air over the Darien Gap.

Any illegality will null and void any insurance you have purchased.

The border crossing issue is difficult to diagnose because I do not know if your vin # on title matches vin # on bike or if the title is legally in your name.

Too many variables to give any definitive answers.

xfiltrate

The bike is 100% legally mine.

It is registered in my name in my home Canadian province.

The license plate is neither lost nor stolen, I was never issued one.

If you have no number plate which relates to the vin number and paperwork for the bike expect problems just about everywhere you go, I suggest you do whatever needs to be done to get a number plate issued before setting off.

All true in theory, but fact is ... I've ridden THOUSANDS of miles in Cent. Am and Mexico with two guys who had NO license plates. Why? How? Mexico eats bikes ... their plates FELL OFF riding serious wash board at high speed.

BUT ... they had legal TVIP, legal, current titles. No problema!
Insurance? Yes, we all had insurance, but it's wasn't legally required in Mexico at that time ... and in fact VERY FEW Mexican carry insurance today. But changing as more and more get loans and seguros required to secure loan.

Oh, one more thing ... Friend crashed his insured Tri Tiger riding off road in Copper Canyon. He also lost his plate riding off road. We contacted the agent, he met us at the border (on Mex side). He never even asked about missing plate, just referred to title and current registration. Funny thing was ... His car had a California plate on it (!!!!) ... very common in Mexico, had a 2001 sticker on it :innocent:
This in 2007. :oops2: Now that is FUNNY!

Guy took pics, I figured they'd never pay up. BUT ... THEY DID! $2,300 Paid. In this case, insurance paid out. Not always the case.

Suffice to say, things don't work in Mexico exactly like USA and Canada. bier

"Suffice to say, things don't work in Mexico exactly like USA and Canada."

AND in 2017, things aren't the same as they were in 2007 either.

International law says you need plates. That implies current registration.

Bluesky, is the bike still in Canada? Because I would worry first about entering USA without a plate.

And if the bike is in Canada and legally yours, it should be easy to get another plate and forget about all this.

Patrick

I can't get a license plate without taking the bike back to my home province, getting it safetied, and then putting a full year's insurance on it which would cost a cumulative fortune.

I've travelled to the US with it with no plate before and had no problems.

How would Central American countries even be able to check that the plate belonged to my bike anyway?

Good for you BlueSky if you can enter USA without a plate.



Patrick

Most countries down from the states till here will ask you for a plate showing a number that must be inscribe in your Registration or Title. Same for shipping back at the end of your travel if it’s your plan. As well many countries will demand you to buy a local insurance and you will need a plate that match with you docs. If you pretend to make a long travel crossing several countries I suggest you to have all the papers in order.
At some places even if customs allow you to cross in, ride without a number place is a troubles call, police will be have a perfect excuse to get a free lunch from you…

SA without a license plate
 

It has all been said above, but of course BlueSky you could try to ride your bike without a license plate all the way to Argentina ... I have not heard of anybody trying to do this, but you could be the first. Maybe you can even convince Javier (javkap) in BsAs Argentina to ship it back to Canada. But pls tell us here on the HUBB what happened to you ... and we can all have a laugh at the police e.g. in Guatemala not understanding why you dont have a plate.

Good luck. Suerte.

mika from Bolivia (in some cities here half of the cars dont have a license plate, so I think here the police would maybe understand your point, but of course they would also want a free lunch to understand) :scooter:

Yes, sometimes a newly purchased bike will not have a plate until local DMV send one out to you.

So YES, I can see you being OK in USA as long as you have current, legal paperwork to present if pulled over.

Still, not having that plate means an excuse for The Man to pull you over. Maybe put a Dealer's Paper Plate on your bike? Like you get with a NEW bike?

Further South this may not work. I'm sure some countries will deny entry without an actual Plate. PITA, but not sure what alternative you have. In California, I can show up at any DMV and get a NEW plate in 10 minutes,
just PAY and you are away!

About 40 DMV offices all over the state.

Since it's all legal, definitely, just go for it. But do expect to be hassled about it occasionally, or at borders, it is pretty irregular. All this stuff about a 'free lunch'... just be firm, you're in the right, and everything will be fine. If it was me I would print a paper plate with "DLR" or "TEMP" or some number from your paperwork though, just to minimize the attention.

There you go BlueSky, Jordan has just agreed to pay all of your fines for you. As he said "you're in the right, and everything will be fine" so go for it.

I'll agree that the Vienna Convention is not taken very seriously by anyone until the shit hits the fan, but this extract from Wikipedia covers it pretty well

Seems to me your vehicle would fail at least three requirements - no plates, unregistered and not meeting the technical requirements for registration back in the home state.

They will not give you a TVIP in mexico without a registration. You have to provide a registration and have plates in most other countries. If you have some document, like a title, have a plate made up with your title # as the plate #. you won't have any problems past Mexico. mexico does check reg, but does not check vehicle on the way in , but does on the way out

Interesting thread. I am searching the forum to learn of any issues related to traveling abroad with an expired motorcycle registration.

Since I hope to travel for approximately a year, I will not be home during the renewal period. Although I may pay and submit a renewal online, I will not be able to obtain a hardcopy of the new registration without careful coordination with friends to FedEx the new registration to me to an unknown destination.

I tried to address this issue while visiting the CA DMV today and requested a multi-year vehicle registration to cover the duration of my trip. I was informed the computer system does not permit multi-year registration renewals and that a current registration is not required while traveling abroad. In fact, it was recommended that I place the vehicle in a non-operational status to save money.

Is a current registration required for border crossings and with LEO while traveling abroad?

How have others addressed this issue if registrations are renewed while out of the country? I can only assume riders estimate their location and have the hardcopy express mailed to a hotel or mail center.

Finally, if the registration verifies the relationship of the license plate with the VIN on the motorcycle, would traveling with a non-op registration, that may not have an expiration date, be acceptable?

Thanks in advance! (I apologize in advance if this post is redundant and have been addressed elsewhere. Returning to search mode...)

CA DMV is correct. When OUT OF USA you do not need to present current California state registration. You ONLY need a copy of your Title (or original) to present as proof of ownership.

Get high quality color, two sided copies of your original title, keep original title safe and protected, most times you won't need it if your copies are good.

You are legal in any country in S. America as long as you have your Title and current and legal TVIP (temporary vehicle import permit) to present. THAT IS YOUR registration. You paid for it! It is all you need present to any Aduana or Police official.

CA state registration applies ONLY to the state of California and no foreign country has jurisdiction over this in any way. Your bike is LEGAL and even if expired in CA, it's still legal out of country (although you will pay a small fine for letting your registration lapse once you go to renew registration again in CA)

All you are required to prove out of USA is that you OWN THE BIKE. Your title verifies this, and you will need it to obtain a TVIP when entering a foreign country, the TVIP becomes your "current registration". Make sure you don't let it expire, get as long of a term as they will give you. (usually 6 months)

INSURANCE is a whole other topic. Advice? get it at border as NO USA insurance is valid outside USA. (except Canada)

I would take DMV's advice, register your bike as a NON OP (non operational status). That way, when you go back to CA DMV to renew after your trip, NO late fees apply. NON OP status costs about $25/YR., can be renewed annually by mail, but if you can prove you were out of the country, I doubt you would pay late fees.

DO NOT TELL CA DMV that you rode your expired bike on US roads to get to their office the day you show up. This is a wink and nod sort of thing, but I would not show up with your helmet and riding gear at DMV, although, fact is, most clerks there could care less.

The other thing is, no official in Latin America would be able to decipher exactly how our system works. If they ask, just say bike registration is for life ... and show them your TVIP and use your title to obtain the TVIP. Don't use your CA registration AT ALL. No need for it. bier

mollydog,

Hello. Thank you very much for clarifying the registration requirements. I appreciate your generous keystrokes and have made a note of your detailed suggestions.

I agree with MD on several points, but not sure about everything.,,

Some context: I rode for years with no active valid US registration, with only a title. I crossed borders several times like this, and while all of them asked why the title did not have the plate number, and why I didnt have any document at all with the plate number, I just told them that that is "not how they do things in State X". Worked every time, although few times it took some convincing.

Another thing is that AFAIK all insurance requires that your bike be registered somewhere. While you can get insurance with only a title, if you get in an accident and the insurer finds out it is not registered, it might be a problem (I can't speak first hand, so not sure...).

First question is about this "non-op"--can you keep your plates if it is non-op? You will need a license plate or you will have all sorts of problems, even if you are technically correct and in your rights. But it is easy to find custom-made fake plates online (at least for the US); IIRC they are called "souvenir license plates" or "novelty license plates".

I don't know that a TVIP is, but don't understand how that becomes your "current registration". Again, AFAIK, "registration" means you have plates from that country/state. I've never crossed a border without plates, and am not sure that it would be possible at least in Russia. MD, you've actually don this?

For the title, I agree that most of the time a color copy is adequate--except when crossing borders, where often they actually look for the watermark, which the copy will not have. I got stuck on the Latvian border for an hour once when I accidently gave them a copy instead of the original, and they spent an hour looking at it before I figured out the issue and gave them the original.

The claims Mollydog makes above will prove true....most of the time. The real question is how prepared you are for the remaining times. If you travel long enough, in a wide enough variety of places, people in positions of power will demand proper papers. Some will have books containing photos and detailed descriptions of American documents--including paper, ink, embossed seals, and watermarks. Some will know what the dates on your documents mean, because they're not stupid.

Most will be easily bought off following some minor inconvenience--time sweating it out by the side of the road or in tin huts in blazing sun, in uncomfortable plastic chairs under all sorts of circumstances. If you're unlucky, you'll have serious difficulty somewhere along the way. The scare stories frequently posted on this site by one member are only the beginning.

OP, I'm not particularly pure, and I've traveled widely on variously falsified documents. I'm not in a position to insist that others keep it 100% legal. But I do think that you should be wary of anyone posting here who blithely assures you that things will be fine. Be suspicious, for example, when you hear that the State of California doesn't care whether you're carrying valid registration while you travel out of the country. While that may be true, it's also true that the countries in which you're traveling will often care very much. Moreover, the insurance companies on which you rely if something goes wrong will definitely care.

I'm not expert, but I have traveled by bike in 50 or 60 countries on five continents. Don't trust my assurances, or anyone's. Sadly, no one posting on this thread will be there to help you if things go belly up. Use your critical thinking skills.

The above worth whatever you paid me for it, or $0.02--whichever is less. But I do hope that's helpful.

Mark

I don't think the USA even signed the relevant conventions, and I doubt whether anyone in the CA dmv would have a clue or care two hoots about the requirements for crossing borders.
As Markharf said, MD's claims might prove true most of the time, not because they are true but only because most officials don't know the rules. What should happen at all borders is what does happen when you are crossing borders from the Schengen Zone in Europe to the rest of Europe and adjacent countries and that is a very careful check of your registration documents and insurance documents and proof of permission to drive the vehicle if the names don't match up.
There was a long discussion on this subject on a fb world travel forum and in the end I think most agreed that most people travelling around for extended periods ARE travelling illegally according to international law, but because their respective home countries make no effort to help resolve the problems and because hardly any countries give a damn, they all consider it their right to carry on.

xfiltrate probably won't bother giving his take on the risks people take over insurance and liability, but I have seen other opinions by legal practitioners that agree with his view. Some places do have registration and insurance procedures that seem to allow indefinite travel while complying with requirements and Montana is one and a couple of states in Australia also.

Back to CA, declaring a vehicle nonoperational automatically voids the registration and insurance requirements and so makes operating it in any country illegal.

1. All CA titles show vehicle's plate number and VIN.

2. You never surrender your CA license plate when you get a NON OP status ...
BUT ... you may NOT operate that bike on any CA road while non op.
To be legal, you have to re-instate and pay your registration. We generally NEVER give up our license plates here for any reason, unless you want a vanity plate or you destroy your plate or it's stolen.

3. Keep in mind, even if your reg. in CA is expired, your bike is still registered there. NO USA insurance is valid in S. America. Only local insurance, which only needs a VIN number and plate number to validate. No foreign insurance company in S. America can check with CA DMV to verify if your bike is currently registered. But, in fact, it IS ... it is legal for the country it is currently IN. (TVIP)

4. The TVIP really is your registration regards the specific country you are in.
You are in there system, you've paid their fees and have been granted entry and are allowed to ride within a specific time frame.

I doubt your bikes status in it's country of origin is relevant ... but crooked officials can alway pull this crap ... or really ... do anything they want.
That part is hard to predict. But most times with your TVIP and Passport, you are fine. Corrupt officials notwithstanding. :innocent:

HA! you must be another California native Aussie, eh? :rofl:
No, does not invalidate registration, simply puts it on hold ... and your insurance is still valid as well ... if you pay the premium (theft, vandalism, fire).

You can ask for a special rate if bike is off the road in storage. Your bike is still in CA system with NON op status, still "legal". Call 'em up and ask.

"Illegal in any country?" That's nonsense. I.E. Mexico. When they present you with a TVIP, you are 100% legal and insurance will pay off if you have a problem. Been there, done that.