Govt are making a little change to SORN, a little less form filling for those choosing the SORN option whilst out of the country for more than one year

Basically you only have to register the vehicle SORN off the road once, not every year, and only 'un'-Sorn' it and tax it when it goes back on the road if that makes any sense at all

Government slashes motoring red*tape - News - Department for Transport


Government slashes motoring red tape
Publisher: Department for Transport
Published date: 15 December 2011
Type: Press release
Mode/topic: Roads, Legislation
Drivers are to be released from reams of red tape currently required by government, Transport Secretary Justine Greening announced today.

As a result of the Road Transport Red Tape Challenge – the government wide process to get rid of unnecessary, burdensome and overcomplicated regulation - the Department for Transport is:

Scrapping the regulation requiring motorists to hold a paper counterpart to their driving licence by 2015 – saving drivers up to £8m.

Improving the regulation surrounding the notification process for vehicles that are not in use on the road (Statutory Off Road Notification or SORN). Once drivers have notified the DVLA that their vehicle is SORN, they will no longer have the burden of annual SORN renewal.
Only issuing hard-copies of V5C vehicle registration certificates for fleet operators when needed, with the potential to be rolled out to private motorists.

Introducing a limited exemption from drivers’ hours rules so that those who also drive as Territorial Army reservists in their own time can continue to do so.

Following a vigorous process of challenge, both by the public and within Whitehall, a total of 142 road transport regulations will now be scrapped or improved.

Removing the need for an insurance certificate. The Department for Transport will work with the insurance industry on removing the need for motorists to have to hold an insurance certificate.

Abolishing the requirement for drivers to prove they have insurance when applying for tax meaning 600000 more people will be able to tax their car online. This has been made possible by new checks of existing databases for insurance under new Continuous Insurance Enforcement rules. The DVLA’s records are compared regularly with the Motor Insurance Database (MID) to identify registered keepers of vehicles that appear to have no insurance.
We will look at experience in other countries on driver Certificates of Professional Competence (CPC) - the qualification for professional bus, coach and lorry drivers. In particular, to see if we could remove the need for some sectors, such as farmers who drive stock to market, from needing a CPC.

Local Authorities will now have to ensure business interests are properly considered as part of any future proposed Workplace Parking Levy scheme. They must show they have properly and effectively consulted local businesses, have addressed any proper concerns raised and secured support from the local business community.

Abolishing the regulations on the treatment of lost property on buses. Bus companies currently have to wait 48 hours before they can throw away perishable items left on the bus.



Glad to hear the bus depot won't have to hold on to Mrs Muggin's bag of pigs trotters for 48 hours now

What goes around, comes around
 

This subject matter has cropped up, again, in another thread which contains a further excellent summary of the UK regulations by Tony P.

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...-vehicle-61877

Daniel,
Any feedback of note?
How did you get on with this?
(I looked at your blog again but it is marked as "private").

MOT/ITV & Insurance
 

Cheers Dave, just read your reply in the Maroc thread

Anyone out there have any experience of having a UK reg bike MOT'd at a ITV station in Spain, let's say Algeciras, will UK insurers accept it, at least while only in Spain?

How strict are the Spanish officials at the border of Ceuta for checking MOT's, insurance and road tax.

Where to get road tax in Spain if your UK road tax and MOT is invalid.

Been out of the UK for a while and is resident in Morocco, returning my UK reg bike to UK as I'm not willing to pay import duties. The bike was shipped to Casa port. Bike is long overdue its first MOT and I am hoping a Spanish ITV can do the trick, at least just while in Spain.

Please no lecturing of should've done this and...... already had my fair share from the missus

It just struck me that the back of a van would keep everything legal and solve all your queries.

yip, but it takes the fun out of arriving at the Jerez GP on my bike and I would really like to ride the bike back to the UK through France, plus I don't own a van, damn

We need to get things in perspective a bit. Putting all the legislation to one side:

Firstly, the tax (RFL). The DVLA will not in reality give a hoot if it is paid in arrears provided it is actually paid. Having recently retired from plod I had some time out with the DVLA clamping/towing unit looking for untaxed motors and if we found one. They contacted the DVLA at Swansea direct to ask for a decision to tow away or not. I was surprised how few were actually removed despite the tax being out of date. The DVLA only allowed the real piss takers to be towed.

The MOT has been addressed in the above posts but it is no big deal really. Provided you put some effort into the booking it is not a problem and in all honesty if you get stopped having just come from an obvious overseas trip, most coppers will see sense and send you on your way. Just be nice to his face - it can work wonders.

The insurance is a problem and that does not really need to be spoken of. If you do not have it in the UK you deserve what you get. As for the MOT being a condition of insurance, that is rubbish. If you store a bike in your shed for years with a SORN for example, it's unlikely to have an MOT but will still likely be insured. You do not want an uninsured bike nicked from your shed, do you ? They do often have a clause in the the policy that the vehicle must be maintained, which is not the same thing. The MOT however can be used as some proof of the roadworthiness.

The Cameras. Firstly, most fixed ANPR cameras are owned and maintained by the council and look at the front of the vehicle. There is a good reason for this. Their primary use (at present) is for crime prevention and detection. This does not include tax and insurance. They can be programmed to find vehicles for crime reasons but there needs to be a good reason for this - again, not tax and insurance. There is no benefit to the council to pay for a mechanism that the DVLA benefit from.
The only ones, AFAIK, that are live for DVLA purposes are the police and DVLA ones. I cannot comment on the SPECS, average speed ones, although most appear to be forward facing. The 'Cat and Fiddle' area being a noteable exception.

Okie so discussions still to and fro, and I am still confused as to what to do...

I am pretty sure lots of people left the UK for more than one year to travel several countries and then came back...... Calling on those who did.... How did you do it and how did it work out for you?

I know of people who have done this 3 times in the last 10 years. It is all you can do.....

1. Leave the EU, SORN online when near expiry of tax disc.

2. When coming back, buy your UK insurance before entering the EU, that also covers you in the EU. Do not tell them that you have the vehicle out of the UK. Using Skype to call, say you are on holiday, vehicle being worked on at a garage and now needs to be road tested if you are asked etc. Usually not.

Importent: Ask them to email you a copy of the insurance certificate so you can "check the details". Then you have a copy. Then make sure they are going to post the original cert to an address that you can visit on your first day back.

3. Buy a green card insurance if you can when coming back into the EU to cover your drive back to the UK.

4. Before getting on the ferry to the UK, book an MOT somewhere that you can do the test on the same day as you arrive, plus pick up you insurance cert, plus get to a post office to buy the registration.

So you may need a 4am ferry, Noon MOT test time etc. MAKE SURE THEY WRITE YOUR NAME AND CAR REGISTRATION DOWN IN THEIR APPOINTMENT BOOK and will verify your booking if the police ring to ask.

5 Then catch the ferry, drive to the MOT appointment, get your MOT cert, pick up insurance cert, go to post office, buy rego.

That is the best effort you can do with the current system. You could have a very strong case if taken to court etc. You really made the best effort possible.

Technically, if you SORN and bring the vehicle back into the UK you cannot drive it from the ferry to the MOT. Hopefully you can. Else you need a van/truck at the ferry port and you can take your time to do all of the above.

What happens if you fail the MOT??

Making a MOT appointment for when you arrive in the UK is the least of your worries as surely it'll work. It's riding through Spain or France coming from Africa with a UK reg bike with no MOT or tax disc!! Cause during ones travels in Africa the MOT and tax expired and now you need to return. What now?

There seems to be no alternative but to ride the bike through Spain and hope for the best when and if you get to Santander for instance, the other is to tow it I guess. Not even the Spanish ITV equivalent to a MOT seems to be the answer

As Old Git Ray says in his post, putting aside the letter of the law and the symantics of how the bits and pieces inter-relate, the main thing to have is a piece of paper that says you have current insurance cover.
i.e. basic, minimum level 3rd party insurance.

On arrival in the UK, pay for the RFL asap - say you arrive a few days into a month, then you will pay from the start of that month anyway (the oft quoted "favour and grace" of being allowed up to, say, 15 days to pay in arrears).
As for riding on the continent, yes you are taking a chance on coming across an official who knows a bit about the UK regulations and who gives a damn in any case. Some amount of adrenalin generated should enhance your levels of concentration and avoid all hazards and potential accidents!!

Some UK insurers seem to insist on an MOT in their terms, some just state roadworthy, other than that I don't think any police outside the UK will be interested in an MOT certificate. The road fund/tax disc is widely considered to only be relevant in the UK, no-one outside that will be fussed.

In the future maybe further integration between Euro DVLA types will make things harder but not yet IMHO, and Mr roamingyak.org is correct. Booking an MOT at a garage that can repair too might be a good idea? But certainly you can only drive to a pre-booked MOT on the day itself.

You can't tow something that isn't road legal as far as I know, and Spain for instance bans towing anything unless its on a trailer or you are a recovery firm.

:)

:clap: thanks, i feel so much better now

Thanks! That sounds the most logical thing to do.:clap: I know for a fact that you are allowed un-MOTd to the MOT appointment.... Now just to find an insurance that doesn't specify the MOT:D

don't think you'll find one but if you do, please share it with us

my bikesure/adrian flux/markerstudy policy has no mention of MOT or similar.

i have posted the outcome in the green card insurance thread instead of doing it here, regarding MOT/ITV in spain in case somebody needs to know.

It's confirmed, as a new spanish connection of mine made the call today, Ceuta ITV had no clue about doing uk reg bikes but algeciras ITV and malaga said yes they have done it before, but, it's not official and that it does help in most cases when showed to the spanish police.

booking made

anyone that might need to make the call in future:

algeciras ITV +34 956673850
malaga ITV +34 902575757
ceuta ITV +34 956507374

Greetings to all. Newbie here. I hope it is OK to contribute to this topic.

My wife and I are planning a "retirement grand tour" of the USA, Canada and Central America in a Land Rover 110 and I have read all through this topic. After searching on-line I found the relevant legislation relating to VED and SORN:

The Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 states "A duty of excise (Vehicle Excise Duty) shall be charged in respect of every mechanically propelled vehicle that …. is used, or kept, on a public road in the United Kingdom". Therefore it is clear that a vehicle that is in Honduras, is not being "used, or kept, on a public road in the United Kingdom" and no UK VED should be payable.

The Road Vehicles (Statutory Off-Road Notification) Regulations 1997 give the following definition of a vehicle to which the act applies "vehicle means a mechanically propelled vehicle which is-

(a) Registered in the records kept under the 1994 Act by the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency on behalf of the Secretary of State; and

(b) Kept in Great Britain."

My interpretation of this is that, a vehicle that is in Peru, cannot, by definition, be "kept in GB". Therefore a vehicle that is on an extended trip overseas cannot be deemed a "vehicle" under the terms of the act and so the act does not apply. Therefore, there is no requirement to SORN the vehicle whilst it is out of the country, as it not a "vehicle" to which the SORN legislation applies.

I would be interested in the comments of others before I put this in a letter to the DVLA.

Regards,
Terry

VED
 

You are stepping into a minefield here as most of the previous posts will tell you.

Unless the rules have recently changed then as far as DVLA are concerned they will NOT sway from their line ..
If the UK registered vehicle is to be taken out of the UK for less than 12 months then as long as it is MOT'd, Taxed and Insured there is no problem.
If the UK registered vehicle is taken out of the UK for a period longer than 12 months then the vehicle MUST be permanently exported, end of discussion!!

I had this issue with them when I set off on my 3 and half year trip back in 2009 ... At this time there were a couple of guys from here on the HUBB in communications with a David Evans from the DVLA to try and come up with a solution - they came up with the idea to write a letter to DVLA explainig what you were doing with the vehicle, how long you intended to stay out of the UK and have this letter placed on the vehicles file. 12 months into our trip I started to receive letters from the DVLA and from a recovery agency for back tax and fines for not paying the VED. Checking back on the thread I saw that David Evans had re-negged on what he had said previously s the letter I sent to them proved worthless.
Luckily/Unluckily for me, at this time I had to return to the UK for a month or two to sort out other issues. My bike was left in Argentina, less than 3 years old so no MOT required, I paid the fines and back tax, got 6 months tax and Insurance for it then after the six months I SORNED it online for the rest of the trip.

I would suggest that you DO NOT tell DVLA anything. It is impossible for the long term traveller to stay legal - you cannot permanently export the vehicle, unless you have an address and the willingnes/time to do it for each country you are visiting, not feasible methinks :rofl: - You cannot legally SORN the vehicle as it must be kept off road within the UK.

However you decide to proceed I hope it works out for you and have a great trip beer
Kev

Panhandle has summarised things extremely well, based on first hand experience.
"Tell them nothing" is the best way of dealing with this anomaly in the rules, unless you like engaging in an argument for the sake of having one. Fortunately, the work around lies with the increasing use of online documentation.

It may not be an anomaly in any case: "kept in Great Britain" could be interpreted (by the courts for example) to mean that we each buy the right for the vehicle to carry a UK registration plate. This would be why the V5c confers the status of "registered keeper" rather than "ownership" of each vehicle.
On this basis, your interpretation means nothing; it is simply one more opinion, but the courts would decide if this issue were ever to go that far.
Just saying :innocent: and it's a good first post!!

Oh dear, this old chestnut again.

Roamingyak is right - SORN the vehicle online once out of the UK and insure it locally, at least for 3rd party risks. That's what I did, and all I thought I could do, and so did many others on this thread.

Where what I did differed to Roamingyak's advice was that I re-entered the EU at the Russia/Latvia border and didn't want to run the risk of something happening between Latvia and the UK and then having to claim against a UK insurance policy with no UK MoT (and therefore no Road Tax either) and messing up my insurance record / getting a fine and a criminal record for the future. So I got the vehicle insured by buying a month's worth of EU Green Card 3rd party at the Russia/Latvia border and then drove straight to a prearranged MoT once off the ferry at Dover.

If re-entering the EU via Morocco/Spain then that might be more of a problem, given the greater likelihood of getting pulled over by the Spanish police for a paperwork check in a UK-registered vehicle!

VED
 

After leaving the EU at Algeciras, I cancelled my UK Insurance as it would be useless anyway in Africa - A word of warning, if you are cancelling your insurance don't tell them where you are at time of cancellation - Bikesure wouldn't refund me the 9 months I had left on my policy because I was not cancelling from within the UK .... what difference that makes I'm buggered if I know!
Throughout the trip I only bought local insurance if it was a condition of entry into that country apart from the USA and Canada where I hunted high and low for cover. Most local insurance companies wouldn't touch me, those that would were extremely expensive. I managed to find a company in Mexico that would cover foreigners for travel in the US and Canada - link here if you are interested, we had no incidents so can't vouch for them but 12 months cover for about US$300 :thumbup1:.
We entered back into the EU at Bulgaria where I bought UK insurance online, no way I could get an MOT or road tax so just had to take the chance that I wouldn't have any incidents on the way back home - On our route back, Italy and France aside, the likelihood of being asked to show an MOT Cert. or Tax disc by the local plod is slim.
Just be as legal as you reasonably can be, alternatively ship back home every year :nono:


I didn't go down the EU Green Card route for this reason -
This from the DVLA website -
Any vehicle used in this country for more than six months in any 12 has to be registered and licensed here in the normal way with the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA). In addition, where the keeper of the vehicle becomes resident in this country, the vehicle must immediately be registered and licensed here. Once a vehicle has been registered in this country its use must be covered by a motor insurance policy issued by a motor insurer authorised in the UK. - http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring...ance/DG_067628

Ouch - very interesting! BUT - I would still have done as I did even knowing this as, if anything had happened, it would have been the Green Card people I/the other driver would have been dealing with and I fancy the chances of them raising the UK MoT/Road Tax/ (and now) UK residency issue would have been less than if it had been a UK policy.

In any case, the DVLA excerpt talks about an insurer AUTHORISED in the UK, not BASED in the UK. Any EU insurer (or even one from the slightly wider Green Card area) would be automatically recognised/authorised in the UK - it's EU law.

Moreover, the day I got the vehicle MoT'd, I went straight to the post office and used the 1 month Green Card policy as proof of insurance in order to buy Road Tax. They accepted it!

Just my view of what the law requires - i.e. that to be legal in a European member state then the vehicle must comply to the rules and regs of the country that it is registered in - therefore, you would require MOT, VED and legitimate insurance cover.
I also would disagree with you on insurance from another EU state being valid - Yes, you can get insurance from another company within the EU but not any company, they must be registered on the MOTOR INSURERS BUREAU DATABASE to comply with UK regs, and they are hard to find I can tell you from experience :funmeterno: -

This from the European Commission website -
Vehicles should be registered in the country of residence of the policy holder and/or vehicle owner. Provided their registration is in order, they may be insured by an insurer established in the country of registration or in any other EU country. Insurers providing cross-border insurance services must fulfil certain formalities under the EU insurance rules. They must also be willing to offer a contract. - Motor insurance - European Commission




This from the Motor Insurers Bureau, Information for Police website -

General Position

The insurance may have been obtained and provided in good faith but it does not comply with Section 145 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 unless the insurer complies with the following criteria:
- Cover on a UK vehicle should only be given by an authorised insurer who is approved under the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 and who is a member of MIB - Section 145(5) of the Road Traffic Act refers.

- If the insurance company is not a member of MIB the third party liability insurance does not comply the law here.




http://www.mib.org.uk/NR/rdonlyres/9...rPolicev81.pdf

I complained to the European Commission about the UK standing on this and got this reply -

Dear Mr Hatchett,
Thank you for your e-mail of 22 June 2012. You would like to know as to whether you can purchase a motor insurance policy issued by an insurer in a Member State other than the United Kingdom.
I can confirm that you can indeed buy a motor insurance policy issued by an insurer in a Member State other than the United Kingdom, as long as the insurer respects certain conditions, as explained below. The insurer must also be willing to offer a contract.
Insurance policies and green cards emanating from other Member States are recognised by the British authorities, provided that the vehicle complies with the registration requirements based upon the application of the normal residence test under Directive 83/182/EEC. Under that Directive vehicles which are circulating temporarily within or between Member States can be used without the need to re-register. However, these provisions limit visits to six months in any 12-month period. After this time, or sooner if the owner changes normal residence to the UK, he or she must comply with the registration and licensing requirements of the new home country.
Where a vehicle is required to be registered within the UK and that vehicle is used on the roads or in a public place, it must be covered by a valid insurance policy which is issued by an insurer which is a member of the Motor Insurers' Bureau (MIB) and is authorised to offer insurance policies in the UK. An authorised insurer for these purposes includes both insurers in the UK which have a domestic authorisation and insurers in the European Economic Area which are exercising their rights under the EU insurance
directives to offer insurance policies in the UK. The British law thus appears in conformity with the relevant EU legislation in this respect.
We advise EU residents looking to take out motor insurance to compare offers from different insurers in order to find the best deal in terms of premiums and conditions.
Their best aid in comparing deals is the Internet. You can find more information about motor insurers operating in the United Kingdom at The FSA Register.
Commission européenne


Researching that lot wasn't the best two weeks of my trip!! :taz:

Ha:D The Green Card policy I bought listed the Motor Insurers Bureau as the UK contact in case of any claim, plus contacts for a long list of MIB equivalents in every other Green Card member state bier

VED
 

Bugger:censored:
Wish I had known you back in July ... doh
Might be an idea to post that list in the insurance section :thumbup1:

Well - we are talking about 4 1/2 years ago now :( so I don't believe I have it any more, but if I find it I will be glad to post it on the HUBB.

From memory, it was a green A4 (or slightly smaller) pre-printed sheet, with blank boxes which were filled out by the clerk in the office at the border in front of me by writing in the details for the vehicle and me. I think it may have had a carbon copy bit which they kept. As the border was Latvia, the heading on the form made reference to the policy being underwritten by a Latvian insurance provider, but the way the form was laid out, with details of the MIB-equivalents for all the other Green Card member states on the back, it did look as though anyone entering through any other border would get something similar but merely tailored to show a national insurance provider for whichever country's border it was.

I have added this in in case it jogs anyone's memory and they happen to still have the paperwork.

Mark

It seem that owning a bike in the UK is a little more complex than Ireland.
There is no inspection needed in Ireland.
I have reregistered several bikes, registered here at my address without any issues, even though the bikes were not present in the country.
To renew motor tax/reg here in Ireland, you need proof of insurance. So far, I have been using my own insurance policy number and it works every time. As Carole Nash does multi bike policy's, it's easy to add bikes and take them off if I need to.
This system, means the owners of the bikes only pay for insurance when they actually need the insurance and not have it insured whilst it sits idle in storage.
For the traveler, it means that the bike reg can be kept current even if the bike is not present in the country.
I have one US registered bike in my storage and the owner just renews the reg in California, keeping it perfectly legal to get green card insurance when he needs it.

I suspect you are right; certainly ownership in the UK has a load of bureaucracy.
I have just come across this list of "things to do" that is taken straight out of an advert placed by a motorcycle dealer for a bike for sale that is not currently registered in the UK.
Maybe it is of use to someone: dealerships should know what they are talking about!


This Motorcycle will need to be registered with DVLA. The Registration procedure is simple. We spend a good deal of time working with the DVLA and HMRC to ensure that our bikes are compliant with all current legislation in order that our customers do not have any difficulties in obtaining age related registrations, we have not had a problem with this in over 700 motorcycles we have sold.

How to register an Imported Motorcycle.

1. MOT the motorcycle on the chassis number, not required for pre 1960 machines.

2. Insure the motorcycle on the chassis number.

3. We at the Motorcycle Emporium will provide the following forms:

▪ An invoice

▪ A V55/5 – Application form to register the bike at DVLA

▪ NOVA reference number as proof duties paid

▪ Contact details for the provision of a dating certificate for the age related number plate

4. Post all the paper work to the DVLA

5. You will then receive your tax disc, a new MOT certificate with your new registration mark within 3 to 10 days.

6. A normal V5C Registration Certificate will follow by post within the next 28 days.

7. DVLA will charge £55.00 plus the road tax fee to register the motorcycle

The reference to issuing a tax disc (in item 5) is no longer current; unsurprisingly, tax still has to be paid but a disc is no longer issued.
(so the bureaucracy continues to morph into a new subtance).

Hi travellers, I'd like to know if anyone has done anything similar more recently, and what was the response? Many thanks

Don't bother. Unless the rules have changed in the last couple of years, (which a quick Google suggests that they haven't) you have no option but to be illegal .. Many posts about it on this thread - My experience here - http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...2-8#post419000

Outside Europe no one cares about MOT or VED. Just SORN it some time after leaving. Book an MOT as you return home, and then tax it.

Sent from my Moto G (5S) using Tapatalk

The time that people start to care about whether a vehicle is legal or not is when you have a serious accident.

The Spanish police - see Facebook page for N322 - have been cracking down on British vehicles without tax, MOT, registration and insurance and they use a public database to check on the vehicle status and issue big fines as required.

No reason why other police forces can't do the same.

Those travelling with a Carnet will also need to have valid registration if they need to renew it

I'll repeat the outside Europe bit.

Sent from my Moto G (5S) using Tapatalk

Then you are wrong again.

And if you SORN a vehicle that is outside the UK, you will be illegal in UK too because you have made a false declaration.

Yes , I know that. But it is the best and easiest approach. No one is going to check that it was out of the country when SORNd. And out side Europe no one will care about that or the MOT.

I never said it would be legal. It is just the best and easiest way.

Then do not return through Europe, come into the UK by sea or air. Book an MOT and tax it .( Assuming the bike makes it back ).

Sometimes you just have to skim around rules. And technically break a few.Sent from my Moto G (5S) using Tapatalk

Two factors therein:


Hundreds of thousands of Brits have gone to live in Spain over the years and some tend to take a UK registered vehicle over there.


Increasingly, the UK is going paperless and putting a lot of information online, for anyone to view who happens to know a registration number.
https://www.gov.uk/get-vehicle-information-from-dvla

Increasingly, the UK is going paperless and putting a lot of information online, for anyone to view who happens to know a registration number.
https://www.gov.uk/get-vehicle-information-from-dvla[/QUOTE]

Yep .. I got stopped at the Romanian border going into Bulgaria. He asked for my paperwork and when I gave him current MOT cert. he said it was fake because everything is online now. He wouldn't have it that it was gen until he checked the details on DVLA website. Needless to say he wasn't happy 'cos he couldn't scam me.

Yep .. I got stopped at the Romanian border going into Bulgaria. He asked for my paperwork and when I gave him current MOT cert. he said it was fake because everything is online now. He wouldn't have it that it was gen until he checked the details on DVLA website. Needless to say he wasn't happy 'cos he couldn't scam me.[/QUOTE]


From next year there won't be a paper copy issued; all records are aiming to be kept online only - this according to my local MOT tester who just tested my bike.
The tester mentioned that some of the test stations aren't too happy with that arrangement - people who have a vehicle tested expect to see something in exchange for their money.



The current new version of the MOT certificate, which changed format just a few weeks ago, looks like a letter addressed to whoever is showing on the DVLA record for that bike (the V5c named person). It still contains the same amount of data though.


So, the border checking officer can't ask to see a test certificate from next year. :thumbup1:

But he can check the online database the same as you or I can.

I can understand the temptation for people to ignore the UK rules if they're out of the UK for extended periods, but as the man says above that's fine unless you get into trouble, have an accident etc, because insurance cover is generally contingent on the bike being legal in its country of origin, and that generally goes for legal roadworthiness as well. The laws don't really cover extended use abroad, even if you notify a 'permanent export'. The best compromise is to go on a new bike that doesn't need an MoT for 3 years anyway, that way road tax and insurance can be done online. For older bikes you either limit your trip to a year or break the law at your own risk.

Precisely my point; the public version of the database (and there are various versions available to, say, the trade) is available to the whole wide world, as showing in the link posted earlier.
The insurance companies are very interested in this topic - years from now, your medical records and DNA profile will be there also?

Keeping the bike UK legal is all well and good if you are only travelling throughout Europe. If that is the case then nipping back to the UK for an MOT and to renew your insurance (not aware of any company that allows you to renew outside of the country) is just a minor inconvenience.
Travelling further afield, if you do manage to get a UK company that will insure you for any where outside of Europe, good on you.
Any other countries are not interested if your bike is valid in the UK, as long as you have a Carnet where required and you have bought their local insurance job's a good 'un.
Whether the insurances purchased at borders are worth the paper they are printed on is another matter - 3 and a half years and I never had any cause to test the system - maybe I was just lucky!

Another option has recently arrived for users of UK registered vehicles which is the MOT exemption for vehicles over 40 years old. There might not be much interest in travelling on such old vehicles but my almost exempt 35 year old BMW R80G/S is still good for extended trips and I am sure a well fettled Land Rover or Land Cruiser will be perfectly capable of long term travel.

I'm interested in what will happen after we exit the EU regarding this topic.

How will the EU look at UK registered vehicles away from the UK for periods of more than 12 months without a valid MOT?

Undoubtedly they will regard the owner as a wise person for escaping.

Seriously, I would expect them to access the systems as they do now - the information is mostly in the public domain. The requirement for Green Card insurance is starting to be made known now that the muppets have just about finally declared that there will be no deal (big surprise as the mates of the PM have made lots of bets on there being no deal) so that will be required. The MOT bit is likely to remain as it is - i.e. you need to book a test before you get on the ferry / train home.

Jay is right
 

Correct, couldn't have been better timed. I just got such a letter this morning from Aviva for my car insurance , Green Card is free at the moment for my car, but looking at my insurers for the bike they want an 'admin fee'. Paying more money to Suzuki insurance for doing their job, ok, I'll remember that at renewal time...

You and me both. Both my car and bike(s) insurances come up in Jan /Feb. Both go abroad frequently so Green Card is an essential. Be interesting to see if there's a difference in the way they deal with it.

Does anyone know if I can get a UK policy with my Canadian license?

All insurance brokers are telling me to check online but the websites are then asking me when I started being a UK resident which I am not...

Thanks in advance.

It’s your residency that’s the issue, not your licence.

Try Adrian Flux/BikeSure


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A friend of mine with a US licence got insured through Bikesure. It was pretty expensive though. He did have a UK address he could supply, as somebody had kindly said he could register a bike he'd bought at his address.

2022 SORN / UK reg updates?
 

Hi all. This appears to be the only place where the question was answered in any detail.

What's the advice for 2022, post Brexit and everything, for long term (3+ years) overlanding with a UK registered / MOTd vehicle?

Any developments? or still "grey"?

As far as I am aware Brexit has changed little or nothing as far as this is concerned, vehicles should be legal in country of origin when used abroad which is impossible to do with an older UK vehicle due to the MOT requirement, unless you go totally retro with something more than 40 years old of course.
As has been said people still do longer trips with them with expired tax and MOT so the advice and opinion given before still stands.

The section about "leaving the country" here refers.

https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hu...352#post630603

Does anyone know what vehicle checks, if any, are made by CARS when issuing a Carnet de Passage? If a UK registered vehicle has been out of the country for more than 12 months on a SORN at home without insurance or tax, will this affect the issuing of a CdP?

I contacted CARS yesterday to ask for a quote and explained I'd be riding until 2026 and would only need the CDP at that point.
I was emailed the quote with the following conditions at the bottom saying:

"The vehicle must have been registered to you for at least 1 month and registered to your current address.


FYI: It is your responsibility to ensure your vehicle complies to UK regulations before travelling overseas https://www.gov.uk/taking-vehicles-out-of-uk"

I am not sure what CARS would do, if anything, at the start or at the end of the CDP process if the the bike does not comply to UK regulations at that point, which as we know from this thread it cannot comply if one is overlanding for over 12 months. I ought to ask but please let us know if you find out too.

Did you have any luck with the Carnet? I am in a situation of being out of the Uk with the bike since 2020 and want to get a carnet in the next few months

My plan is to tour Europe and further afield in "fits and starts" - riding the bike for a couple of weeks then storing it near a Low Cost airport before flying home for a few weeks, then back out to ride again and repeat. This may go on for more than 12 months.

To avoid the "MOT trap", I would buy new just before the trip so have 3 clear years before the bike needs to return to the UK.

UK insurance companies appear to cover the bike for up to 90 days outside UK (and by exception and with an increased premium up to 6 months).

My thought would be:
Year 1: Register, insure and tax bike in UK. After three months in EU, be in Italy and buy Frontier Insurance
Year 2: Insure and tax bike in UK (but never plan to use UK insurance). Buy Frontier Insurance for periods when riding
Year 3: As Year 2 but return bike to UK at end of year.

The DVLA issue re the bike being out of the country for more than 12 months remains.
Unsure if one can reinsure a bike that is outside the country at the time of renewal

Has anyone tried this?

DVLA's position that you should export and re-register the bike after 12 months is clearly unworkable for long journeys. I very much doubt they would know, or care, if the bike was out of the country as long as the insurance and tax paperwork was up to date (as you say a new bike avoids the 'MoT trap')

The only thing would be that your UK insurance won't cover you for more than 90 days out of 180 in the EU, but if you're buying a separate policy I don't see any problems. Just reinsure to keep it technically legal then once you're back in UK you have a policy in place and you're within its terms.