Carnet for non carnet countries?
 

So I am planning a trip to the middle east through:

EU->Turkey->Iran->Iraq->Kuwait->KSA->Bahrain->KSA->Quatar->KSE-> UAE->OMAN -> KSA -> Jordan - > Israel -> EU

From my understanding the only country that requires a Carne on that list is Iran. So I need it to check in and check out from Iran. But what do I do with the rest of the countries?

Do I still use the Carne at these borders or do I just import my bike the normal way? Any upside in doing one over the other?

A carnet is not mandatory for Iran, but saves a lot of hassle arranging temporary import at the land border.

In other countries they will issue you some kind of temporary import paper (e.g. Iraq), or just log you in the customs database (e.g. Turkey).

Some people have got their carnet stamped entering Jordan from Saudi Arabia, others have been refused and made to buy a temporary import permit.

EO

Thanks.

So basically I will save money if I try to use the carne instead of the TIP? So I should try to use it every time? Do you know about the other countries is there a TIP fee for the gulf countries or Israel?

Carnet, not carne. :thumbup1:

Usually, in Asia, you either need the carnet to get the vehicle into the country, or the authorities will not use it at all. So I doubt you will be able to use the carnet to get around a temporary import permit except in Iran and possibly Jordan.

I have no experience with the Gulf countries or Israel, but I know that none of them require the carnet.

EO

I've used CdP for Europe, South America, Africa, and Australia. Many countries don't need it, however it provides protection in the unfortunate (and obviously unwanted) situation where you are unable to take the bike or vehicle out of the country (theft, total loss). It also means that you're not paying a fee for a TIP, where there is one. We always start asking to use the CdP; when the customs people insist on a TIP we obviously do what they want.

Which European country stamped your carnet?

Quite the opposite. It means that in the event of not re-exporting your vehicle, you are liable to pay any customs fees. The carnet issuer will not be in any way liable to cover those fees for you. If you enter on a TIP, you will be liable for the same, but there is no liability with a carnet issuer.

France, Germany Switzerland (note that this was a long time ago)

Hmm - Quote from the FIA website:

"CARNET DE PASSAGES EN DOUANE. The CPD is a customs facilitation document used to cover the temporary importation of roadmotor vehicles. The CPD constitutes an international guarantee that customs duties and taxes will be paid if a customs claim arises due to the non-re-exportation of a vehicle.". This is precisely the point of a CpD - the carnet issuer is betting on the probability that you will in fact take the vehicle back to its home country" - if you don't the customs fees and fines (as relevant) are paid by the issuer. That's what the deposit is for. It's essentially an insurance premium.

This statement says nothing of who is liable for import duties, which is always the importer.

I can't speak for any carnet which you have been issued, but I have had them from authorities in Germany, the UK and Switzerland and all have explicitly stated that the importer (i.e. the person mentioned on the carnet) is liable for customs duties in the event of the failure to re-export the vehicle.

The indemnity in the past has taken three forms:

-a cash deposit with the carnet issuer to cover possible import duties / fees in the case of failure to re-export. This is why the deposit varies according to which countries you visit (different countries have different tariffs). You don't get this back until you prove the vehicle has been re-exported. The deposit is most certainly not an insurance premium. It is a deposit which, as the name suggests, you get back. Which insurance policy gives you your premium back if you don't make a claim?

-a bank guarantee from a financial institution to say you are good for the import fees (and any sensible bank would make sure you had assets enough to cover this). Obviously the bank is not interested in paying your import fees.

-an insurance policy. I only saw this in the UK. It was effectively a scam insurance policy which in the small print mentioned that the importer was liable for all import duties. Its only purpose was to get around the cash deposit. When the RAC started to demand that all clients used this scam insurance policy, public action was taken and they were pushed out of the game.

Frankly, it only takes common sense to see that neither a motoring organisation which offered to cover your import duties on good faith, nor an insurance company which gave you back your premium if you did not make a claim, would be in business long...

EO

Just for the record. I will get my carnet via Germany ADAC, and pay 3x less in deposit.

My comment was "essentially an insurance policy" - you're right, it's not an insurance policy, I was (failing to) provide an analogy.

You're also right that the carnet doesn't cover import duties however the deposit, bank guarantee, or insurance policy (if valid) are precisely to do this. As you note, if you have to exercise the carnet to cover import duties then, as you say, you lose the deposit or premium, however these are far less than the import duties if you were to have to pay these. That's why we use CdPs even when not required.

Hello

I had only once a CDP for one year (2012, standart countries), issued from TCS Switzerland to me as a swiss.

I had to pay deposit of 10k sFr (the minimum for a motorcycle) which was in fact 2.5 times the actual value of the motorcycle at the time.
Also a guarantee of my bank for costs exceeding the deposit in case of a claim.

In short I was liable for ALL costs that some country claims against the CDP issuer TCS (unavoidable if I ever wanted to live in Switzerland again).

Absolutly no way I ever wanted to mess with the CDP, just a "Damocles sword".

If the vehicule gets stolen under the CDP I have to pay all the import costs back home.
If the vehicule gets stolen under a TIP I have to pay all the import costs to exits the country or maybe have a way to exit the country and never come back to avoid the import costs (depending on how the TIP is connected to the passport control at the border/airport, illegal but wouldn't mind).

Also if I use the CDP and the vehicule doesn't come back home, I have to wait several years to get the deposit back from the issuer of the CDP as he has to wait for any possible claims.

In total to me the CDP was a needed tool to get my motorcycle to Australia, costs 340 sFr per year and just a pain in the a**.

How does the CDP by your issuer work that you like to use it even if it's not needed?

sushi