3rd party insurance UK
 

Could someone please help me with these questions?

When you buy a bike that has X number of months tax left, does the third party insurance transfer to the new owner as well?

Can you do the transfer of ownership at an office and walk out with the completed documents like you can in Australia, or do you have to get it posted to you?

I've spent ages on the DVLA site and can't find anything that answers these questions.

Thanks ED

When you buy a bike in the UK that's all you buy - the metal. If it's got some road tax still valid then that's a bonus. If it doesn't then you'll need to make sure it doesn't touch the public roads - transporting it on a trailer / in a van and keeping it on private land.

Insurance is a totally separate matter. You don't have to have insurance for the bike - I currently have six bikes with no insurance in my garage (but I'm taking the risk if they're stolen) but if you want to use it on the road you will have to buy some. You'll need to ring up an insurance company or do it on line and you'll find out how much it costs - it depends on what options you choose. There is no insurance automatically attached to the registration, they're totally separate.

The DVLA is set up to deal with change of ownership paperwork by post. I've never bought any vehicle, car or bike, that didn't have the registration paperwork dealt with by post. Occasionally I've had to go to my local office to sort out some obscure item but the changed documents have been sent to me in the post some time later.

I think the fog of ignorance may be slowly clearing.

Thanks for that.

So does the tax transfer in a sale, or does the seller cash it in and you have to start again with the proof of insurance etc?

Yep. You got it!

The seller can either return the paper tax disc for a refund or leave it on the vehicle.

If it remains on the vehicle it continues until the stated expiry date. At that point you need to get another disc (6 month or 12 month) and to do this you must produce Insurance, MOT (Annual Technical test for 3 years old+).

If the seller had returned it you have to get it as soon as it is used on UK highways, by producing the above.

Note. Once a Tax disc expires the registered owner/keeper must either buy a new one or make an annual SORN declaration that the vehicle is not used on UK public roads. Failure to SORN or Tax it attracts automatic penalty fines.

This caused me a bit of confusion when I bought a car in Australia - the system of insurance being included with the rego. Better system than the UK I reckon.

Tony - when are you up for another drink?

Mark

Here we go with another dumb question.

If the seller leaves the tax disc on the bike and it has say 4 months to go, then do you, the new owner, have to take out your own third party for that 4 months?
Or can you ride it until the tax runs out without buying insurance, and then buy it when you need to for renewing the tax?

You need to have your own insurance as soon as you take a vehicle onto UK public roads, irrespective of it having a current Tax Disc or not. (Dealers usually have a blanket insurance policy for test purposes)

Tax, Insurance and MOT are all quite separate matters. Each has a life span of its own and has no link, or anything to do, with the validity of each other. Except at the moment of buying a new Tax disc, when you must produce evidence the vehicle has current Insurance and MOT (if 3+ years old).

NOTE. The police have access to databases of vehicles with and without current insurance, tax and MOT certificate. Around London (at least, and probably elsewhere) they have very regular roadside checks using unmarked vans containing automatic number plate recognition cameras linked to the database and a radio link to a squad of officers 100 yards further down the road, who are waiting with vehicle transporters to impound and take away any vehicles caught without Tax, Insurance or MOT.

I do not intend to hijack this thread in any way, but does all this imply that I can get my UK plated bike (I'm Norwegian) out of UK, tour with it elsewhere in the world and have no worries about the road tax and MOT as long as I remember to SORN it? (insurance being a separate matter of course)

That is how I read the legislation, but the DVLA will not confirm this - as it cuts off some tax income!
See this thread http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...ong-term-39472

As I said within it, I maintain the MOT and Tax is required for using UK registered vehicles on UK public roads. Neither are required for using it on private land either in UK or elsewhere - ie. beyond the jurisdiction of the legislation. I would argue that in any Court.
There is no way the UK Government can justify and claim tax for me for riding across tundra in Siberia or elsewhere where there is no such tax on vehicles.

But you must remember to renew the SORN online each year. They have no idea where you are doing it from, nor do they require to know where the vehicle is, other than not on a public road in UK.

Thanks for that Tony P.!! You have provided the clearest explanation. It's a pitty that the DVLA doesn't do it.

Now the most pertinent question left. Where the hell does someone, not having a UK license, buy one of these policies?

Thanks ED

There are other threads on this topic. But it should not be a great problem - I have just re-insured my car with a named driver not having a UK nor EU license. You describe it as an 'International License'. I also gave the insurers a print out of the DVLA site stating such license being acceptable for a non-resident for up to 12 months from the most recent entry into UK. (ie. for a frequent visitor indefinitely!)

I must beg to disagree/clarify one point though - current UK tax and MOT ARE required anywhere else in the EU. If a UK vehicle doesn't have current UK tax and MOT when it is elsewhere in the EU, it's committing an offence in the member state it is in (although it is not committing one in the UK until it sets tyre on UK roads). This of course depends on the authorities catching you in that member state while you're there.

It's a reciprocal thing - in theory at least, any vehicle from elsewhere in the EU is committing an offence here if it doesn't comply with whatever tax/registration requirements pertain in the EU member state it is registered in.

Once outside the EU - no problem.

I am not so sure about that, Mark.

I accept they want to make the EU one 'harmonised' state with common regulations everywhere but until things are common everywhere that is only an unworkable dream.

eg. Motorcycles do not currently reqire any form of technical/mechanical test in several member states such as France, Belgium and others (although this will change). Other countries have no road tax - again France I believe.

So how can it now be an offence to ride an unMOTed or untaxed bike in those countries?

Who would prosecute? There is no such offence in the visited country, so they are not interested, and the UK's jurisdiction ends at its shores.

And where are the MOT testing stations should you be away unexpectedly longer than anticipated and the old one expire?

Tosh. As with most that comes out of DVLA, things don't get thought through other than from the British Government's standpoint of obsession for regulations, restrictions and revenue raising penalties.


- - - -
Yep - I fancy a beer with you again. I'm busy for a week or so but will be in touch.

I agree it is often a theoretical thing, and readers of the Daily Mail or Telegraph may see their blood pressure increasing at the perception that other EU countries are better at busting UK vehicles than the police are at catching Polish etc road traffic offenders here, but yes - the law does say that any vehicle from another EU member state must comply with the rules in its home state when in another member state.

If those rules do not require for eg a MOT then no - a vehicle from that state is not committing an offence in another state by not having one. Conversely, if a UK motorbike was supposed to have a UK MOT but didn't, it would theoretically be committing an offence in France.

MOT testing stations - I agree.

Drink - good!

The practicality is that once you get a hundred miles from Calais the Gendarmes want to see an insurance certificate with enough time left on it to reach the UK, tyres with tread, lights that work and a photocard license with a picture of a bike/category A on the back. Beyond that they havn't a clue. They certainly won't pull you to check the MOT or what colour tax disk you have.

Where you get into deep whatsit is if some drunk steps off the pavement in a stupid place and the magistrates get involved. They will look for a roadworthy vehicle that ticks all the boxes and do understand a UK vehicle should have certain documents. No MOT and no tax will tend to go badly for you. The prosecution would be under French law for having incomplete/incorrect documents for a foreign vehicle as defined by the EU. Any member countries laws require you to have a set of correct local documents or the equivalent for your home country. For the UK that set includes the tax disk and MOT. They'd get a minor conviction for that one which would in turn help convince the court you were guilty of dangerous driving or whatever bigger charge they were looking to press.

The fact that there are no MOT stations is your problem not the laws. This can actually be dealt with for a RTW traveller by booking a UK MOT when you re-enter the EU. You are allowed to travel to a pre-booked MOT and so long as you keep heading towards the appointment you are legal. For someone getting off the ferry at Calais there is no such defence.

Andy

Yeah, I went straight to a pre-booked MOT when I got back to the UK in July 08 in my Toyota Landcruiser that hadn't been in the UK since Feb 07. I was aware that that was how to avoid getting busted for not having an MOT once on UK roads.

But I'd actually booked this MOT before re-entering the EU - does that mean I had a defence to any charge of not having proper UK documents under the laws of the member states I was driving through on the way back to the UK, then?

I thought I WAS committing this offence, and that it was just luck that had stopped me from getting busted under local laws as I passed through each of them.

DVLA (and your V5C) say if a vehicle is to be away for more than 12 months it is being "permanantly exported" and your V5C should have been returned to them and the registration cancelled when you left. With no valid registration in a country, a vehicle is not permitted to be used in other countries under the Geneva agreements.

How did you get round that? Or did you choose to purposely ignore this part of what DVLA try to tell us is the Law?

This all shows that no matter how hard one tries to follow the procedures (as opposed to the Law!), you cannot if you wish to take a longer trip. The DVLA are no help in adressing the problem and change their position regularly when challenged (read Alexlebrit on other threads).

The whole matter gets further complicated by the EU trying to behave as if it were a Country - which it is not. The agreements are between countries, not unions of countries.


Apologies to Bungawalbyn, as we are going off topic.

Tony - this has already been discussed - it's how you and I met!

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/europe/crossing-eu-no-mot-road-32649

Look forward to that drink. Let me know when you're free.

Rgds

Thanks for the info.

I think some of my trouble was that when contacting the insurance companies,I committed the cardinal sin of dealing with bureaucracies, namely, giving them too much unasked for information.Don't know what came over me, I'm old enough to know better than that!:rolleyes2:

ED

I think I can finally get a good nights sleep.

I've taken the advice I have recieved and completed an online quote form for a company that linked from Bike Trader. Used a bogus name and address for the moment but entered that I had an International License and was in the UK only 3 Mths and just wanted 3rd party. It gave me a quote and offer to purchase, so I guess it all worked. Cover included 3 mths Euro travel.
Cost about 216 pounds though. Seems a lot, but very reassuring after all the confusion around insurance for the novice.:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:
I guess now I'll pester all the companies for a better deal.
Thank you everyone that helped me sort out the UK system !!:thumbup1:

Welcome to rip off Britain. If your bike is over 500cc and you havn't five years UK insurance history, anything under £150 would be a miracle, so shop around but don't expect any serious saving.

Enjoy your trip

Andy

Which insurer is this?

Indu,
It was MCE Insurance.

Andy, thanks.

ED

I finally got around to actually getting the third party insurance. I first had to get the bike into my name.

I was lucky to find a seller that not only will let me use his address, he is also going to buy back the bike.

After submitting about 30 quote requests, I found an aparently quite good price from Footman James Insurance BP92. 85 with a pay site that actually works. The best thing though was that they accepted an International licence issued in Australia with no difficult residency questions. Give them a try if you are in the market.

25 days to go.:scooter:

Ed