Sharing a China guide...is there anyone else?.
 

Hi All, There have been many and numerous threads...re China. It seems there are two ways...unofficial..and official. Now I am not adverse to winging it and trusting to inginuity and luck....However having my journey of a lifetime fail halfway is not something I fancy, with that in mind I have decided the official route is the only one worth the time and the ride to the Chinese border. China for all its problems is really the only way south unless you want to ship or fly the bike. For some reason shipping the bike seems like an opportunity lost...I really would like to transit China and ride from UK to Thailand overland. Tried sorting this out last year and after a promising start ...numbers dwindled and it did not happen. So who on here has a burning desire to transit China, North to South?. In a perfect world a 4x4 and a couple of bikes would be the ideal party. So volunteers step one pace forward...I would like to exit China into Laos in late July early August. Any takers?????

China Transit
 

Hi Jimmy,

Just thought I'd add my route from the other thread. Me and missus will be leaving the UK in April on 2 bikes and would love to go down to Pakistan via the Karakoram Highway and Kashgar. Again, unsure of timings as we're allowing ourselves to go with the flow but at a guess I'd say late June - early July (i only say that as we're interested in attending the Polo festival on the Shandur pass - dates for 2010 yet to be confirmed).

Anyway, we're also looking for people to share the costs, so will keep an eye on this thread.

riding in china
 

hi there,
i'm just start to get in trouble with the china leg of my trip. i've planned to reach torugart at least on august 18 2010. but i'm already in touch with hassles before leaving. some local agencies, send me a quote about a 4 days trip from torugart to khunjerab. they say you must to pay for guide, for car driver, chinese licence & plate, and all the f++++ng rest. the cheapest quote they sent me is 1.200 Euro. they also told me the main expenses are for the bike paperwork not for the guide exc... i've subsequently asked for a different quote regarding an alternative route from kulma pass (tajikstan to china border northbound of tashkorgan). it would be a 200km stretch only to do in china. some says that border is for chinese & tajik citizens only, another one just ask me 1000 Euro to do that probably in a day... so, i'm thinking to look for a truck at the border, pick up the bike on it and try to get through and see what happen.
last but not least: shipping me & the bike from dushambè to islamabad. i do not think it will be more expensive than the chinese rip off...
otherwise, i'm always looking for who's planning to do the same thing on the same period, to share the costs and the riding.

i'm here!

www.lungastrada.it

I have recieved quotes from several tour operators in china for north south & east west routes for 6-10 riders. No way could I get the price bellow US$6500, and that did not include accomodation or meals. Personaly I wish the monied well off would stop paying these prices and China was boycotted until such time as the government and tour operators became reasonable about allowing people to travel there.

Simon

China
 

given that the cheapest quote found thus far is approx 1200 Euros, are we to assume that THIS is the figure that would get divided up amongst a group that decided to make the short crossing from the Stans to Pakistan via Kashgar?....

I'm sure there are plenty of more experienced members looking in on this thread who might be be able to shed more light on this from their own experience.....

2009
 

We did the route from Kyrgyzstan - Pakistan in 5 days this year. we were 4 bikes (including one scooter) and one 4wd. It cost us $550 each. And you will probably find that for each additional person they add more money, so you won't be dividing one lump sum between you.

You can read the details on my website here:

Message Board - China

There are also several threads on the HUBB with all the details on it. I would recommend zyztours, who we used, as they were easily the cheapest. BUT, and it's a big but, you must remember they are not a tour guide, rather an government escort. Do not expect the China leg to be that enjoyable if you have already come from Europe without an escort.

Good luck on whatever you decide

Transit China Costs
 

Thanks for all the current info and advice. It seems that as a minimum $100 per day is it...Given a North South transit is 20 days thats $2000 in fees plus daily living expenses...as an add on cost, for what would be a journey of a lifetime, I feel its bearable ... If that means I am one of those monied people that are ruining it for everyone else, well to put it into perspective. I have never smoked, visit the pub once a week, service my own bike and dont have sky TV. I reckon I am still in credit lol. Each to their own...Nice to see the thread creating so much interest..

Have fun...Jimmy

I remember paying 1000 USD total for those surveillance guards back in 2004,from Shenzen (Honk Kong) to the mongolese border. That was for 4 weeks of travel (roughly 35 USD/day), feeling like staying in a train sit on a motorcycle. We were about 20 riders in the group, heading to Moscow.

Looks like the fees have tripled in 5 years.

Re the $35 a day....
 

Hi, I note it was some time ago...can you remember the agency that organised the trip?.

Thanks Jimmy

Two quick notes that might help:

- The Turogat pass is a second class border crossing, normally not open to foreigners (and completely closed on Sundays), as I had to find out the hard way. It is possible to cross, get permits and so on (which I did in the end), but the Irkeshtam pass will be easier and cheaper

- When I crossed China, the sodding escort vehicle was $180 per day

Will be interesting to see your efforts. As far as I know Kulma Pass is for Chinese&Tajik citizens... Every year I hear they will open it for rest of the world...

By the way - maybe it is the time to make a kind of appeal to the Chinese government to open normal, legal and easy ( I mean free of ton of documents) route to Pakistan? From Kulma to Khunjarab it is only 200 km! And only one ugly but easy to navigate city Tashkurgan...
Let's try to open northern way to India avoiding "unstable" Afghanistan...

Perestroika tours D56291 Platzfeld, Germany 06746 90280

Welcome

Thanks for the info
 

Hi thanks for the info, I have been e mailing Navo tours, their first response was its expensive....However they actually list tours following a north south route that would be suitable see China Driving Tour; drive your vehicle to China, 4X4 Silk Road - NAVO and its for your own vehicle!!! lol they promote a tour transit and then warn you its difficult expensive...maybe the price depends upon how deep they think your pockets are. So anyone interested in transiting China North South terminating in Laos in late July...early August ????? I am happy to meet at China border transit China and then go our seperate ways. I am a little time constrained, my timing would not suit everyone. The transit woiuld be 20 days as a rough Guide $2000 plus accommodation and fuel for bike and rider...Any takers?????

Jimmy 46

Im hoping to make it across this leg too, its the worst part to try and figure out with a Uk to Australia journey. Im leaving northern india or Nepal around Mid August to September and going to try figure out a way across this bugger of a country, Has anyone trucked or trained or posted their bike across china into Laos? I gather (from what i currently understand) if the flight from Katmandu to Bangkok for me and the bike is around $1200US and a similar end price when shipping from Chennai to Bangkok (with many complications im assured), it looks worth it to try and get across somehow by paying for a guide or someone to transport it across somehow and actually see a bit of China. Is anyone else going across around this time? Or any other ideas to help out.

Cheers Marty

4X4 Transit thru China North South from Russia/Mong
 

Hello all,
Have been reading China threads with lots of interest.
We are 2 adults, 2 children planning UK to Oz overland this year using Land Rover and off road caravan. Very slow!

Leaving UK mid-April/beg. May latest - we'll will be heading north through Norway, Sweden, Finland and then thru Russia - Mongolia. Plan to hit Mongolia mid July'ish in time to hang around for festival if poss - but flex - not essential. Could arrive earlier/slightly later. And of course speed and whether we make it with a caravan in tow is very much up for debate. We plan to enter Russia anytime beg June/mid-June or thereabouts and take slow meander.

We would love to drive our vehicles through China and would have room for a single guide also (will be a bit of a squash but we can do). At this stage though we are convinced would be very expensive for us, slow and inflexible to even consider. So, we're planning to ship vehicles onwards to Oz and backpack through China to Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia. Though we would have a 40ft container requirement to contend with so it's possible expense could be neutralised/cheaper/more expensive etc. to consider transit?

We're looking into this now.

Anyway - purpose of this post? - just so you guys know we are around and heading through from Russia/Mongolian end - in case by miracle a cost-effective transit looks possible - we could also offer camping possibles as result of caravan to transit China ? Not sure what the score is (or whether we will even make it this far with caravan - could end up being single LR vehicle but no reason why both shouldn't make it). But to warn you - we could/would be slow and cumbersome and also have children. (and nothing definate / all subject cost/timings etc.)


All the best
Andrew and Anne

We're just trying to get the information together and it seems like there are a couple of groups planning on crossing China to get down to Pakistan this summer.

Any information that can be shared would be appreciated. We're in no hurry or wishing to do big mileage days, so if there's an opportunity to share costs and help each other with information, planning or transit arrangements we're there.

Carl

Message for Jimmy46
 

Jimmy46,
We are in contact with Navo and looking at our timing dates - July/Aug for 20 days from Mongolian border to Laos. These dates could possibly suit us.
Enquiries at this stage but obviously as we need to understand costs in more detail (plus carnet etc.). Also looking at alternative of container shipping direct from Russia as part of our next planned leg. Let us know if your up for transiting with us at all. As I say nothing defo as yet.

Transit china
 

Yes very definitly interested, also via Pm have been in contact with Wheee who sounds interested in exploring the idea. Where are you in UK?. I am flexible on most aspects route, timing etc my one and only must is I have to be back in UK by August 10th ishh, other than that I am open to all ideas

Regards Jimmy

China Transit
 

Cool - will provide more info over next few days (once we start to hear back with costs etc. for both our options re: Navo v container route) - fingers crossed!!!!!!
We're based in Cambs.

Just registering my interest in the thread, I am looking at Nepal -> Laos a bit earlier, March April May.. I know it's vague but sitting in India and looking at Flying or Biking..

I will try and post the additional information as i get it.

Just waiting sorting Information .. This is what i got back from NAVO...
oh, just 7000 Euro for 20 days ...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

The government permits is really very expensive for one vehicle group. If we add the car hiring, it will cost at least 1000 RMB/Per Day for the vehicle and you also need to cover the empty back cost.

If you are driving from Nepal to Laos’s border and it will cost about 20 days in China. So just a rough estimate of the cost according to our quote system, it would be around 70000 RMB /group (1 vehicle 1 guest). To guarantee the safety of our guide, we will not ask them to sit at the back of guest’s motorcycle, and so every motorcycle team will need guide vehicle.

I hope you can understand that why I haven’t provide the details cost, because it’s unreasonable price which would be. So that’s why I don’t suggest you do this tour in China. No matter how many vehicles, we can help to arrange that, however, we do suggest our guests to do this because that will cost a lot. If you go with several vehicles together, then the most cost of the whole payment could be balance to each vehicle and the price will seems more acceptable. The more vehicles come, the better price for per vehicle will be.
----------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks Akentigernfox - very useful to know. Costs are what we feared. Will wait back to see if we receive similar quote from Mongolian border end - probably will.
Meantime - feelings on the costs are as follows:
:cursing: or :eek3:or maybe:helpsmilie:
Crikey!

Just waiting sorting Information .. This is what i got back from NAVO...
oh, just 7000 Euro for 20 days ...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

The government permits is really very expensive for one vehicle group. If we add the car hiring, it will cost at least 1000 RMB/Per Day for the vehicle and you also need to cover the empty back cost.

If you are driving from Nepal to Laos’s border and it will cost about 20 days in China. So just a rough estimate of the cost according to our quote system, it would be around 70000 RMB /group (1 vehicle 1 guest). To guarantee the safety of our guide, we will not ask them to sit at the back of guest’s motorcycle, and so every motorcycle team will need guide vehicle.

I hope you can understand that why I haven’t provide the details cost, because it’s unreasonable price which would be. So that’s why I don’t suggest you do this tour in China. No matter how many vehicles, we can help to arrange that, however, we do suggest our guests to do this because that will cost a lot. If you go with several vehicles together, then the most cost of the whole payment could be balance to each vehicle and the price will seems more acceptable. The more vehicles come, the better price for per vehicle will be.
----------------------------------------------------------------[/quote]


1000 RMB per day is £90 at current exchange rates, 20x£90=£1800 or 2000 Euros ( I have the Euro symbol on my 4$ key but cannot find how to type it!). I realise there is the return cost of the car but cannot see how you arrive at 70000 RMB. That means the fixed cost is 50,000RMB or £4700 for a visa.... hmm Hope some of the other quotes are a little less.

Jimmy

Jimmy

Jimmy,
My guess is the only way you will be able to do this China leg for under a few thousand dollars per person regardless of how many people you take is to choose the absolutely shortest route through China. I.E. a couple of days riding through Jingjiang and out to Pakistan along the KKH. anything else that vaguely resembles a free and easy 'travelling experience ' you will pay an arm and leg for. Unless you choose to go the full illegal ride and risk it. fly in buy a cheap little Chinese bike and ride off. some people do this and get away with it, personally I would not like to contemplate the consequences if one did fall foul of the Chinese law.
I had a heap of quotes from NAVO and PLATEAU TOURS and no way would they come in under 6-7000 dollars per person and that did not include food or accomodation.
Might bump into you later this year as you go west east and we east west.

Simon

Transit China
 

Hi I am aware its not going toi be the bargain of the century.My desire is to ride all the way and as far as I am aware transiting China is the only route since Burma Myanmar is impossible. I am aware of a group who spent 6 days in China with a guide, group was 4 bikes and a 4x4. Their cost per vehicle per day worked out at less than $100. Before someone screams thats too much..how much will it cost to freight your vehicle, fly yourself and clear customs etc. The prices seem to vary wildly, indicating perhaps theres a fair bit of padding...I just need to find a sensible tour company. At the moment we are potentially two bikes and a 4x4 a perfect group. All advice re tour guide companies and how best to negotiate gratefully received.

Jimmy

More info/bits
 

Bit of a long one but i thought i'd put down my thought's and some more info that i've put together.

BTW.. the 70000 i didn't calculate, that whole section was a direct cut&paste from the email i got back.

I have been talking to other guide companies also, and the reason my quote was so big is becuase they want to put the equivalent as a landcruiser with me, and of course the guide has to have a driver. So instead of driving a fuel efficient 50mpg motorbikeand myself <$10 food & accomodation, I'm fuelling probably a 3km/ltr gas guzzler for 6000km. (return journey included) with a $50 a night food and accomodation each for the guide & driver.

However...
I have been talking to a local Tibet/Chinese couple who run a hotel & cycle everywhere and am hoping that because they have seenme & the bike and stay in the same cheap accomodation that they will be able to talk to their local guide explaining better what i'm after, and I will be able to get a quote back down to the $100 a day price which i think is reasonable considering what i have heard from friendswho have travelled around on group trips with european transport.

One underlying point that i got from talking to them was that they where concerned about the problems for the guide should anything go wrong while you where on the trip, Basically not doing what your told.

This was confirmed by my friend who travelled last year ..

""We got our Group Visa in Kathmandu, it took about a week, and at the time, only Groups could get in. But i also heard you can officially be a 'group of one', just as long as you have a Tibetan AND Chinese guide with you. The guides must be with you "at all times" in Tibet, and although it sounds totally unreasonable, the Chinese troops and police do try to enforce it. We got held up by police while we were shopping for Cook Team, and were not let go until our guide found us, and smoothed it over with some baksheesh. The rules change day to day, depending on the mood of the Chinese Government. It's always going to be hard to get into Tibet. All Individual Visas were denied to backpackers we met at the bars in Kathmandu. ""




I have also tried info from this company.. waiting for my second reply after i specified the trip.

thank you for your email and your inquiry with Hiddenchina.net Ltd. Can I please ask you to provide us with a little bit more information about your planned trip?

For example, we would need to know when you plan this trip approximately. We do have self-drive tours in the area but we would also need to know how you plan to travel exactly.

Please provide us with as many details about your itinerary as possible, we can then get in touch with our local people.

With best regards,

Roman Lange
Founder/Director of Operations
Mobile: +86 13681292401
Fax: +86 (0)10 58570190
Email: rlange@hiddenchina.net
Skype: rl.hiddenchina
Web: Hidden China GmbH - Individuelle Touren, klassische Reisen, Abenteuerreisen, Gruppenreisen, Trekking, 4WD und Motorrad Reisen in China, Tibet und der Mongolei

Sharing the China guide
 

Hi Akentigernfox
, Your information and conclusions are pretty much the same as mine. If you are just a motorcycle group then the guide has to have a car and a driver, this possibly triples the cost!. Instead of one person you are paying for two and in addition hiring and fueling a vehicle for 40 days and 3000 plus miles.
I have always maintained that the costs can only be reasonable if the group includes a 4x4 with a seat for the guide, if that is possible then the costs can be kept reasonable, seems $100 per day per vehicle is a realistic figure.
I am aware of one group in a 4x4 vehicle that are looking at the costs of transiting China, with any luck the important 4x4 just might be making the trip.
I have e mailed Johns cafe and Tahar of Newlands and am awaiting replies. There was another thread on here with details of several other guide/tour operators, I haver tried to find it using the search function but no luck so far. If someone has compiled a list of tour guides or knows the thread could they let me know please.

Regards Jimmy

Jimmy,
you could try Echo at the below address. he always said we could reduce our costs if we got a 4X4 into our group.

Echo Wang
> Plateau Tours Adventures
> Mobile: 86-139 8211 6935
> Fax: 86-28-8662 1753
> Email: echo@ptatours.com
> MSN: viewtibet@hotmail.com
> Web: China Tour Services,China Tour Packages,China Travel,China Travel


Simon

4X4 China Transit available Mongolia to Laos July/Aug
 

It looks very likely for us that we will be arranging for our own 4x4 to transit China from Erenhot-Mongolia to Laos this year for approx 20 - 22 days duration. Planned start date looks approx mid-July (around 19th'ish)) - arriving Laos around 10th August. (all subject to confirmation etc.)

Route plan / itinerary currently flexible but likely to include the busy parts and more typical sites initially if possible - ie Bejing, Xian - incredibily busy/highly populated before moving to more quieter climes (hopefully!). Camping where possible mixed with some cheap accommodation stays. And - we'd like to see pandas - maybe around Chengdu - plu gorges and stuff !!! (2 children travelling with us so we have to think about them and what they will/might like).

If anyone has any serious interest to join us / share guide / transit costs, please let us know.

Re: date flexibility - we are unlikely to be able to transit any earlier than 16th/17th July - though any reasonable time later will be fine.

Re: Border exit - we have no flex on exit border (i.e. Mongolia) due to our own plans.

Re: Itinerary - we have flex on route/where we stay & what we do - and please excuse stating the obvious but - all must be pre-agreed prior to booking with agency as we won't be able to detour from this arrangement once made.

Re: Costs - once we have an idea regarding interested parties - we'll make enquiries - so far we have based only on our own requirements.

In order to try to obtain the best cost-wise deal, we are looking to confirm by end Feb latest with whichever agency we choose so this means we have approx 4 weeks from now for anyone wishing to register interest, give time to investigate and arrange any payment/deposits required.

Happy to meet up & discuss in more detail - or by phone or PM.

Andrew & Anne.

Sharing the guide
 

Hi cassie, I am in libya at the moment and my e mail is blocked by local ISP. I am still interested and understand your route cannot be altered. The only way I can go is if you can agree to as early as possible entering China, I must be back in UK for 10 August so need to arrive Laos as early as possible. I would meet you in Mongolia a day or two before entering China. I will let you have all my details on my return to England 21st Jan.

Talk to you then

Jimmy

By the way, the motorbikes are not allowed to ride on the highway in China.

I plan to be travelling through China some time in the future by 4x4 but too late for everyone in this group. But I am very interested in sitting down and trying to work out the logistics of what is involved. When I do hit the road, I'd like to be in a position to help out some others if that is possible. I'm in London. if people are interested, shall we meet and discuss?

Transit Date?
 

Richard,
When are you planning to go?

Not to 2012 I'm afraid. Lon to NZ. Landrover Freelander 2.2.

2 kids + wife.

We are beginning our planning.

Options
(i) through Myanmar - no chance but I do plan to go and visit their embassy and have a chat.
(ii) shipping from India to Thailand - do-able I think but boring and takes time
(iii) through China having first gone in through the Stans in the north and down to Pakistan on KKH. Then up from Nepal into China for the second time and across to Laos/ Vietnem. We could go through southern Pakistan, but I've never been through the Stans so would prefer that route. Cost/ routes/ borders etc...need to work it all out.

Have gone by m/c from Lon to Singapore in 2003 but flew bike from Nepal to Bangkok last time

2012 Transit
 

Richard,
Good luck with it. Maybe by the time you go restrictions regarding guided self-tours might be a thing of the past - here's hoping!

We have a LR CSW 110 300 Tdi. One thing I did find out is that a carnet is not recognised in China. According to the company we have been speaking to a different system exists i.e. you are required to leave 50% of the value of the vehicle at the border before entering China (approx 14 days before and I think you would need to make some deposit toward this before - at booking stage). Once the deposit is paid, you won't get this back until possibly 30-40 days following exit - sometimes it can be as little as 25 days depending on how busy they are. Make, model, photos must all be supplied beforehand and if you get to the border and the officials believe the vehicle is worth more - they will ask for further payment. The full deposit is returned however but it is a bit of pain to have to part with such cash especially when it is needed to continue funding travels. The agency we have been speaking to advise that if we were to book a full 5 months in advance, they will pay 50% toward the deposit for us but we must confirm the booking well in advance for us in order to enable them to prepare the required amount for transfer.

We have also been advised with regard to trailers or what is known as a 'train', as long the trailer has the same number plate as the vehicle, this will be accepted as one vehicle requirement and costs for the trip will be based on this.

Will let you know how we get on with it all as we progress.

Well, here's a long shot,
I have been working in China a fair old while now.
So a few weeks ago I started to make questions, how to get a full Chinese driving licence.
I have a full UK car and Big bike.
So looking to get a full equivalent Chinese licence.
Any way, cutting a long story shorter, I can get the full equivalent Chinese licence, 550.00 pounds.
A bit expensive I thought, but then I realised that I would not need to do the Chinese theory, or the Chinese driving tests.
Then I would not need a guide, and I wonder if I could also maybe 'acting' guide for others?

'vette

Acting as a guide
 

Hi, Thanks for looking at it, first question have you got 6 weeks to spare?. I believe then you need to be registered as a tour operator. If you contact CITS which I think is the goverment tour company. They will be the ones that can possibly confir this and maybe help you register as a tour company. I wish you luck and please net me know how you get on.

Jimmy 46

China
 

Hi,
Was just wondering about bikes going through China. Is the legal view that they can't transit highways or are there other restrictions as to where can travel. Have been reading mixed views. Those who seem to have got in illegally seem to have gone where they liked and just taken their chances without too much hassle or problem - apart from being stopped and then sent on their way. Then I read the more legal looking views which say bikes can only transit to/from certain points - have I got this all wrong or completely roughly right?

Bikes and China
 

Hi cassie I believe that bikes are prohibited from using the Highway as in the major fast transit roads. They are also prohibited from entering some cities. A search in google will list the cities and the highways that cannot be used. Having said all the above from all travellers accounts i have read any transgretions seem to have been dealt with on the spot with no great issues.

Jimmy46

Bike regs
 

As I thought - useful to know. Thanks Jimmy!

Hi there Anne - Idon't know if this has changed, but we let no deposit at the Chinese border - this was September this year.

Also the bikes we were travellering with had an independent spirit, and just rode on the rodes they wanted to, and no oen was bothered (once they had ridden off in the distance). But people did try and stop them ...

Vehicle Border Deposit
 

Thanks Ollie. Funnily enough Jimmy PM'd me the same info and by chance I had already been making checks with another agency yesterday to try to get further clarification on this. I received a reponse today as follows:

"Your CPD Carnet or ATA Carnet is not accepted by China Customs for travel purpose because China is not registered for it. You do not need to pay China Customs any money for your vehicle driving into China. Our company will offer the Customs a guarantee for your vehicle traveling in China. But you may pay about RMB50—100yuan for the vehicle disinfection when you drive through the border between China and Mongolia".


Not sure what the deal is here or whether it's the case that agencies maybe have differing arrangements with China customs.

So - (if I include agency I think Ollie used - Zyztours?) then 2 out of 3 companies so far say you don't need to leave deposit and/or arrange guarantee on your behalf.

I will get back to the initial agency who said I need to pay a deposit and report back.

Thanks all.

Smuggling and breaking chinese laws
 

Sorry but Im not here to play their games. Im gonna try my best to make it across by getting in one way or another, somewhere where borders may still be disputed maybe. Where there is a will there is a way and I enjoy being sneaky. Has anyone on this site actually made it across without paying ridiculous amounts of money for guides, licensing etc...? Or has anyone had their motorbike or vehicle trucked across to laos? You may as well as you would probably see more going with someone else rather than a guide driving you through and sticking to the government planned routes and agendas. If Anyone is keen to meet me and give it a go I should be over that way around end of July and start of August. Who's up for some fun.

Go on, you no you need to, someone has to tell me happens if im caught?

Im doing the Uk to Australia journey and need to do it overland, leaving in just 2 more weeks!!!

Non Guide through China
 

Check out www.slowbikes.com for Jakes trip from UK through China to Australia. It was a few years ago now and things are always changing.

Jimmy46

Reciept!
 

Oh yes, the disenfectant. We had to pay that, and on our way out they asked for the receipt. No sense whatsoever, but of course we had lost it, and so they weren't going to let us out unless we paid for it to be done again (on the way out of the country!!!!!)

Two hours of stubborn refusing later and we were alowed out, but remember, keep all your entry receipts!!!!

I'm out of the running...
 

Hi Andrew

your route is possible and the earliest time in China will in 3 months,end of April if we work on it from now.

the costs for your trip in China: about 14000 Euro for 2 Motorbikes/15days. (permission fee, guide, work car, driver, insurance fee...)

I will give you detail quotation if you agree with this basis.

regards

yan




---------------------------------------------------------------
Need i say that i am very sad at what people think money is worth !!!
:censored::censored::censored::censored::censored: :censored::censored::censored:


Andy.. I'm going to fly over china

Sharing a China guide
 

Hi All, If everything goes to plan I will be entering Mongolia from Russia at the Tsagaannuur Sukhbaatar crossing on or about July 6th, travel to Ulaanbaatar in time for the Naadam festival on the 11th. Immediatly the festival finishes head for the Mongolia China border at Erhot. The North South transit will take approx 22 days. All this is still to be confirmed...however it seems more than 50% certain. Have space for one other motorcycle. Let me know if you are interested in any or all of the trip, I will be leaving UK mid June travelling via Germany Czech Poland Ukraine Russia ( Still waiting on final costrings for China guide).

Jimmy

China Border Custom Costs
 

Akentigernfox, Shame about it!:( Hope something good happens between now and the time you plan to travel.

Found the following info regarding China customs deposit from one company -this is what they say:

Pre-2008 - it was possible for a tour company to provide guarantee paperwork but due to issues (e.g. smuggling) it's generally no longer possible.
Generally, China law states custom deposit requirement from the vehicle owner (I am not sure as yet if this is just cars - will re-check this) which can be provided in 3 ways:

1. Pay 100% custom deposit yourself
2. Or, pay 50% of the deposit requirement and by arrangement in advance with the tour company, it pays the other 50%
In both instances above it can take up to 40 days for return of money following final border exit.
3. Alternatively, the tour company can pay (loan) the 100% deposit on your behalf but takes an interest payment from you or makes a charge for the privilege - usually added to overall cost of the tour.

Maybe this explains why 2 out of 3 tour operators say they do not charge for border customs. Not sure but seems to make some sense as the 2 out of 3 companies where no custom deposit required are more expensive than the initial 1 we mentioned that operated vehicle border deposit requirement. Needless to say when the operator we spoke to was questionned by us -they offered option 3 to us (they hadn't in our original pricing options) and this brought them more on par with the other quotes we had received (and includes dis-infecting vehicle).

Due diligence is advised as follows:
- Traveller may get caught out at borders (this could explain why some travellers suddenly receive an unexpected high charge at border on exit) - as they have not been advised properly to expect customs charge/deposit in advance upon exit (then possibly believing they are being ripped off or being taken for a ride).
- Each border operates differently - e.g. entry from Kashgar operates where tour co. can make one payment deposit early in year to guarantee several teams entering at different times. But (as far as this operator is aware) Mongolia/China border (Erenhot)- deposit must be paid by vehicle owner in cash (usually pre-arranged in advance of enty via tour operator).
- If a tour operator has not taken a group post 2008, they may not be aware of the new custom legislation which came into force following their last known transit tour - or may not be familiar with a border not normally transited by the tour operator before.

Several Chinese tour operators gathered last year to talk to Government customs and wrote to see if policies can be changed but is still a work in progress and consideration.

If anyone has any more accurate information - though we appreciate we are not a bike but a vehicle transit, would be good to know.

Customs deposit
 

Hi Cassie 2,
So far as I know, the big tour operators afford the Customs deposit for their clients. Deposits do must be paid in cash at a few passes in China when entering. However, you don’t need to worry about it. The guide will take this money as he or she meets you there. I don’t think they charge more for the deposit. In my opinion, their papers and procedures are certainly smoother and can be assured because they have a good “guanxi” with concerned departments and as you know it needs money to maintain this relationship.
Several Chinese tour operators did gather to talk to the Customs last year and this year they will do the same. And the big are reluctant to do so because they have enough money. Anyhow I think they will get the same answer.
Best,
Fanfan

4X4 China Transit Mongolia - Laos
 

China South to North
 

Intresting thread ..I am looking at the reverse direction probably around the July-Aug of 2010. Any one else going that way?c?

2 x 4WD Transiting from Mongolia to Laos
 

Hi,
We now have 2 x 4WD's for sure transiting from Mongolia (Erenhot) to Laos - including ourselves. We will re-check the costs with the guided tour operator/s we are making enquiries with to see if there is any improvement in the price for bikes based on the latest costs provided. Problem is that, prices seem to get bumped up regardless - can't win either way. But for a bike who would need a guide otherwise, this might appeal. The 2nd 4WD contains an ex-biker and both 4WD's are Defender 110's. We will be slow as the defenders are underpowered compared to other vehicles and both will likely be towing. We have yet to confirm date of transit and final duration but are looking anytime currently roughly mid-July - beginning August to begin this leg of our trip from Mongolia. Will update on costs and transit start time as soon as we can. If anyone else other than Jimmy interested in transiting with us, please let us know as we'd like to finalise our plans during February. One additional bike would make a nice balance and possibly a good cost for everyone.

4WD Update
 

We've been advised the border will be closed during the Nadaam Festival on the Chinese side at Erenhot and is generally closed on weekends. Earliest transit following this will be the 15th July, with latest transit before this time around 8th/9th but with risk of delays till 15th (dependant). Since the additional 4wd has joined us, a decision has been made to split the cost equally between groups regardless of vehicle type. So for example,
1 bike and 2 vehicles = 3 groups
2 bikes and 2 vehicles = 4 groups
An example cost for 1 bike and 2 vehicles for 28 days looks roughly like £3K currently. For 2 bikes and 2 vehicles we are hovering around £2.5K. Guide expenses split equally between the groups. Route: Erenhot, Beijing, Xian, Chengdu, Laos. We leave the UK in a few weeks so if anyone interested, this is a last call - by 15th Feb latest - this date so we have enough time to make any final arrangements and deal with any problems before we go.

Hi Cassie,
Erenhot to Beijing is long and not so interesting, can be done in a single long day about 13 hours.
From Beijing I would be very tempted to go to Tainjin ---> Yantai 12 hours ( 800km) then Yantai---> Weihai ---> Qingdao, get out of the interior towards the coastal towns. ( 800km)
You will really like Yantai and Qingdao. 4 hours ( 250km)
Dont forget Qingdao has the biggest brewry in China = Tsingtao Home Page
Then after a few days, head back to the interior Xian via Jinan, which is capital of Shandong provence, very beautiful 5 hours ( 400km ) = Jinan Travel Guide: China Jinan Tour, City Map
Then onto Xian 13 hours ( 1000km) = Xian Travel Guide: China Xi’an Tour, Xian Hotel, City Map, Dining, Nightlife
My god, I could go on, and on, and on, just so many nice places.
Then onto your Chengdu, 8 hours ( 800 km)
Then you have to go to Guilin, 24 hours ( 1400km ) = Guilin Travel Guide: China Guilin Tour, Guilin Hotel, Map, Tips
Dont miss Pearl River cruise in Guangzhou 10 hours away, ( 600 km) = Guangzhou Travel Guide: Guangzhou Tour, Guangzhou Hotel, City Map.
Then pass Nanning on your way to Laos.

Much more here ---> China Travel | China destinations


'vette

By chance, we found a new guide option with much cheaper price to transit China. Cost for an additional bike (or vehicle) is now considerably less at around £2K to transit with us (2 x 4wd) - 26 days, entering beginning September, Mongolia to Laos. This cost now also includes the guides expenses and customs deposit. Each group needs to pay site fees, parking, tolls, accommodation, fuel, food for themselves.

We also asked about solo bike transit with 4wd hire in China Although you would need to re-check this info yourselves, from what we can see transit cost for the same trip for lone bike would be in the region of $5250USD or approx £3270. Much better than some of the previous costs posted we have seen.

This is through a more independant guide rather than a tour operator so maybe some might want to wait to see how we get on. Otherwise welcome to PM for contact details.

'vette - thank you for the very useful route information. We have been looking at your recommendations in some detail as well as those proposed by the agencies to help us get a final itinerary together.