Looking for riders to entrer into China from Kirghizstan or Kazakhstan next june 09
 

Hi all,
I am planing to ride from Paris to Katmandu starting next april. I'll be riding through Iran, the Stans before entering into China to go on the KKH highway, down to Islamabad, then India and finally Nepal.

I'm looking for some riders ready to share the cost of entering into China from either Kirghizstan or Kazakhstan around in the 25 of june 09. The classic plan would be to go down to Kashgar, Tashkorgan and finally Islamabad through the KKH highway.

Anyone ?

Alex
Soliraid Asia

I'd be interested in some feed back too, on crossing one of those boarders. Contradictory stories about it are all I can get. Anyone has done it lately??

By the way, islamabad is not the best place to go to right now.... Tricky to get the visa on the road too (I've just tried a couple of days ago in Tehran: no way..)

Hi,
Me and my friend (riding two Hondas Africa Twin) are planning to cross China (Xinjiang and Tibet) from Kyrgyzstan (turgurt Pass) to Nepal. Our planned dated is a little bit later: around 28 July enter to Xinijang and after 23 days leave to Nepal.

We plan to leave Poland in May and like you ride through Turkey, Iran, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan and then China. The trip details (and dirrect e-mail to us) are here: www.worldonbikes.pl

If you can postpone your China entry time a little bit, we could settle the group and negotiate the prices...

Looking forward your response.
Aleksandra

Is the price any cheaper with a group for China? You'd think it would be but not until you get to 10 or more - and then only 10% or so. Well that's what I was quoted. Of course one person doing all the emailing, chasing etc for the rest does help.

Tricky to get the visa on the road too...

Actually coming from China you can buy a Pak visa at Sost immigration after Khunjerab Pass. $90 I think it was last Sept. We were on pushbikes but met a biker in ISB who had been escorted from Iran border in a rush. I don't suppose that has eased up.

I had an idea you could not leave from Tibet into Nepal, but I could be quite wrong.

In late August we hope to go from Kaz down via Taklamakan to Lhasa and back up west along the 219 to Kashgar and so Pak. Quoted €2600 pp but still working on it. Not sure that something as simple as into Tibet province from one point and out via another - especially the 219 to Kashi - is allowed.
We are 2 and don't mind 2 more.

Sorry to hijack Lighter's thread but I suppose keeping these offers all together helps.

Ch

Hi Chris,

you idea sound interesting and the price is not bad or I would rather say very good. We were said US 6000 pp per 24 days from Kyrgyzstan-Kashgar-Lhasa-Tybet...This is much more than your price!

I understand that from Kashgar you go to KKH Pakistan - is this correct? Are you planning there to enter India? We wanted to make a ride in Ladakh. Which means taht we would have to be in India at the begining of September as the latest. Why do not you consider to make China leg a earlier, so that we would have enough time for Ladakh? In such case we could set up "four bikes group" and make China/Pakistan togehter.

If you are interested to discuss any further details on this, please write on my PRIV (trzasku@wp.pl).

Cheers
Aleksandra

Hi Aleksandra,
the guy we are using is the well known 'John' round the back of the Seman Hotel.
John's Information Service & Café On The Silk Road and in Tibet kashgar turufan dunhuag xian xinjiang silkroad

We also have around 24 days quoted, but I am still not convinced everything is included. It is possible your quote includes a travel guide from the agency - not needed as far as I understand. That would have been 5000 with John with accom, fuel (car?) etc.

The price was originally quoted for 3 provinces (Bejing, Xinjiang and 'Tibet') so could well be less without Beijing? Who knows? I still have not got to the bottom of how it works in China.

As you may know last year all car permits were slowed down due to Olympics and even Pamirs were restricted when we rode thru following an attack in Kashi. I have still not heard for sure that they have started again without delay.

I know I am leaving it late - I am even buying heated clothing for the first time! - but have work and nice accom until July. From Pak I will go Iran and home, the other guy into India (but not Ladakh I think).
I expect the winter will catch me at some point.

Give John a go.

Ch

Chriss,

thanks a lot for John's contact. I will try to catch him. Regarding permit to ride in China - I heard similar stories to your. However in case of motorcycling in Tibet I heard that the government not only slowed down with permits but does not issue them at all (contrary to 4x4 trips). Most of the people from varius Chinese agencies suggested me waiting until Chinese New Year. Maybe then the situation will change. Now, at least offcialy, no motorcycling in Tibet is allowed for foreign bikes.

Regarding July, it is a pitty, but it it is to late for us. Ladakh is one of our "must see", so we will do our best to get there in the right time. If not Ladakh, we could change the dates.

It is good idea to buy heating cloths in your case, at least for European leg.

Will let you know, as soon as I get any news regarding China and Tiber.

Cheers
Aleksandra

Now, at least offcialy, no motorcycling in Tibet is allowed for foreign bikes.

Oh really, well it is good to know now.
Spent a few hours with a map on this interesting page today:
Notes, Graph and Satellite Images from the Yecheng - Western Tibet - Kathmandu Highway

I did chase John up about 10 days ago and he still has not replied (usually very quick).

I have also emailed
China Tibet Adventure Tour--Tibet Tour,Travel in Tibet,Tibet Trekking,Tibet hiking,Tibet Adventure,Overland Tour,Festival Tour,Kham,Amdo
again.

In October they said:
They virtually shut down any applications in particular for motorcycles. But the application seems to be loosen now, and we still have a chance to make motorcycle ride in next year. We will get you informed at early of January to see the latest upgrade, and till then we know how the possibility will be.

Yes Ladakh is not to be missed, esp if you can't go to Tibet. I think I will save it for a pushbike.

So, more time and more money to spend somewhere else...

Ch

Two answers I have got today:

From Tashkurgan (formerly Steve):
I am sorry that at present we can only do crossing [of China] by car.
Crown Inn @ Tashkorgan
Crown Inn: Adventure Travel, Asia, Kashgar, China, Silk Road, KKH


From tibet@tibet-tours.com (originally asked last October):

It seems to be okey to get the permits for motorbikes this year. However we cannot affirm 100%, but can try the application. If you can send us all the required materials before 20 APRIL, we can*apply all paperworks in Bejing, and will know the result on*approx. 20 JULY whether they endorse these permits or not. You can revise your entire*itinerary*and skip China*by then if cannot get permits.

The quote with a detailed day-by-day itinerary was €100/day for 27 days with some long days up to 800km and some excursions and days off in interesting places including Guge.

But this was for 4 bikes so we are looking for 2 more riders for an early September crossing

Dig deep and come on with, it will be a great ride!

Ch

I do have quite a few "naïve" questions there. And apparently you have been digging the question, so i was hoping to gain a bit from the experience you got:
- Is the permit necessary? I mean, it is horribly expensive (2000 euros is five month of my budget, i just can't afford it). Apparently some people go through without a problem (but with a car though). Wouldn't it work with a big fat bribe?? According to the chinese official regulations, the guide is not compulsary, but agencies pretend it is... Where is truth??
- In case of a transit visa, is this permit still necessary?
- If I put the bike at the back of a truck to cross the boarder, and unload it a few miles down the road, is that a possibility?

By the way, for the pakistani visa, I could not get it in Tehran because a letter of recommandation was requested. My loving and caring bl**dy french embassy told me that "they could not favor the crossing of french citiizen..."
Good luck for the preparation of your trip -and I might meet some people in laddakh, hopefully!
Vincent

Hi Vincent, I'm not an expert either but if China was easy without guides and all that crap a lot more people would be riding there now. Try and turn up at any border with a car or moto and see if they let you in. (With bicycles no probs.)

Sure, we hear stories of cunning individuals evading the regs (riding local bikes helps) but they'll catch you when you try and leave (I have heard). Me, I can't be arsed with all that cloak and daggar. 2600 euros is a lot less than I have heard a few years ago and almost the same as Algeria (for example). And it includes Tibet.

My impression is China is not like sub-Saharan Africa where a bribe can smooth things over. It's just deeply bureaucratic and controlled.

- In case of a transit visa, is this permit still necessary?
Dont know about transit visa.

- If I put the bike at the back of a truck to cross the boarder, and unload it a few miles down the road, is that a possibility?
Give it a go but I doubt the trucker will want the risk as I suspect he will be specially employed to take you to the the next border. You need to exit with a certain amount of papers/permits that you get on entry, as far as I know.

I am sure someone will put us straight.

I get the impression China is opening up and one day will be open. But not yet.

Ch

(Sorry this thread has gone off track. Maybe this should be moved to Northern Asia?)

Thank you Chris for your answer;
Yep, sorry about the thread that is gone "a bit out of control"... I take full responsability.
Do you have informations about all the paperworks that is normally needed to enter china?
Well, i'll try to go through the three kazakh borders, then kirgiz border, tadjik border. Plan D: afghanistan:death: and then north of pakistan...:hang:
I should be the a bit before everyone on this post, I'll try to keep you inform (if i manage to get a turkmenistan visa though.... Why is there borders?????)

Vincent, there are no roads from Afghanistan to China...
Pakistan to China is also difficult. I don't think the Pakistanis will allow you past the "frontier" without correct papers for China and the immigration for China on that route is at Tashkorgan,. which is really just a customs outpost to the main unit in Kashgar/Kashi.

Always remember that this entire region is a military zone and is the Chinese barrier to the Muslim hordes. That's not a personal view, its just what it is.

John

Hi Chros / Hi Everybody

Chris, no chance from our side to join you in late August - timing!!!! I am still trying to convince "my Chinese" agent (China Exploration Tours) to decrease the price they offered. They are very reluctant to give any discounts! But at the same time they advertise themselves as the only one (or one among the very few) companies which can actually arrange paperwork for bikers. Chris, just to let you know, they have doubts whether Tibet Tours can do it, as they have no experience (it it at least what they claim - maybe it is just a merketing trick, I do not know what to think). Anyway, does any of you heard any opinions / stories about China Exploration Tours? They gave me an e-mail to one Danish guy for whom they organized all papers last year. However the Danish guy travelled by caravan (motorhome)... not bike. They claim they have also experience with bikes (sent me some photos from last year), but becasue of the privacy policy do not want to tell me any detail about the clients. I only know they were from UK.

Cheers
Aleksandra

Hi Aleksandra,

Check this thread for some other companies and the qutes they gave us. Although we are 4wd, two bikes are coming with us and they had no problem with this.

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...ist-help-40967

I hope this helps

Cheers

Thanx a lot for this information. I looked at your post re. Chinese agents. I have already talked with Stan Tours (they cannot do Tibet). Is the full name of China Exporation - as you mentioned, China Exploration Tours? If it is so - I am in touch with them. I havent spoken with the remaining ones: ZZ Tours and Julie Xie/Wayne (who used to do the tours for Caravan Cafe). Would you be so kind and can send me e-mail addresses / webside adressess to them. My e-mail is: jurekiola.info@gmail.com

As I saw, you will be crossing Xinijang only. We want to go from Kyrgyzstan to Nepal, crossing Tibet. Tibet complicates paperwork a lot... and not all Chinese companies agree to do this.

Regards,
Aleskandra

Hi Aleskandra, I havent got a feel for the Chinese situation yet. I dont know if they are as 'slippery' as other places where it takes some experience to decode or filter what is being said/claimed.

What can be so hard or different about geting a permit for a bike or campervan?

If we cannot do our planned transit from the top down to Lhasa and over to Kashgar then nothing else is really worth the expense. An escort is tedious enough. Out back up plan to just truck my/our bikes from KYR to PAK borders. A two day drive. Plenty to see in northern Pakistan.

Did I say already, I am pretty sure they won't let you out of Tibet into Nepal (with a vehicle); you have to cross back in 'China'. You can maybe come into Tibet from Nepal and back out again. No vehicle transit from China across Tibet to Nepal, India, etc, AFAIK.

Chris

email
 

Email sent Aleksanddra.

Update the thread if you get any decent info.

Cheers

Ollie

Chris,

what do you mean by this? Is this restriction Chinese or Nepalee one? Is this something "new"?

Cheers
Aleksandra

It is a Chinese restriction and I dont think it is anything new.

I have never heard of anyone crossing from Tibet to Nepal (with vehicle).
This is why everyone goes out via KKH.

Has you agent said it is possible?

Maybe someone else knows better.

Another thing. I do wonder if this being 50 years since the DL's exile that protests etc in Tibet may put it off limits again like last year. I am getting quotes to truck the bikes from Irkestan (Kyr) to Khunjerbab just in case ...

Ch

I raised up the Nepal border crossing issue with the Chinese agent. He said from Chinese paperwork perspective they can do it. He does not know, however, the details of Neaple's side. But you mentione that this is Chinese and not Nepalee restirction.

In general they maintain that they are able to organize for bike riding ex Krgyzstan via Tibet to Nepal. The only thing is that they do not want to decrease the price: USD 5,500 per bike is the final offer :-(

The problem is that we have to decide what to do by the end of this month... So I am still thinking. I would ride through KKH to India is the situation was like in last years. But now, even the people knowing Pakistan, who were there many times, discourage me from this option.

Cheers
Aleksandra

But you mentione that this is Chinese and not Nepalee restirction...

So I thought but I am not an expert. Maybe your agent can do it. Have they done it before or know of any one who has?


Google Tib-Nepal crossing with vehicle. Maybe it is normal? With bicycle no probs. Anyway, I don't imagine Nepal will turn you away.

USD 5,500 per bike is the final offer :-(
In the UK that is nearly £4000 now - crazy!

I must say I am not worried by Pak. You just have to do research and know where not to go, like any country. The Northern Areas - the real heart of KKH - is not at all like NWFP or other tribal areas. You will see. Ismaili has a lot to do with it. For me it will be a highlight.
From Gilgit down to ISB and out you can do in 3 or 4 days. They may escort you to make it even quicker.
I was in ISB in Sept (just after Marriot) and talked to a moto guy who was escorted fast from Quetta, more to get him out of their hair.

Ch

[quote=Chris Scott;231761]I must say I am not worried by Pak. You just have to do research and know where not to go, like any country. The Northern Areas - the real heart of KKH - is not at all like NWFP or other tribal areas. You will see. Ismaili has a lot to do with it. For me it will be a highlight.
From Gilgit down to ISB and out you can do in 3 or 4 days./quote]

Gilgit was the first place I felt "uncomfortable". Everything north of that is geared to tourism and was fine and friendly but they are suffering for the lack of visitors. Then headed for Skardu and again its geared for tourists... (by that I mean climbers/walkers).
After that, Dasu was THE most "uncomfortable" place in Pakistan for us. Once past Abbotabad you are well out of the tribal lands.
Blatant plug: BikerBytes.com: Chilas to.. :mchappy:

This was at the time of the Red Mosque incident of 2007.
Now its just "not cricket":innocent:

John

Tibet closed till July
 

(that should be 'question mark')

Just heard this from a mate planning a recce for an upmarket bike tour to Tibet: my hunch about the DL was not so far off:

... The agency has informed us that no foriegners will be let into Tibet before July this year. Next year should be ok but there is some important anniversary this year [DL x 50] and they want to keep out trouble-makers.

Good story John, what a sad ending...

After reading other stuff I'm slightly less blasé about Pak but it's been like that for years, on and off. Lately more 'on'.

Ch

I did this crossing in Junly 2007. Full details are here:
China Guide
Newland Travel seem to be the guides that most other booking agents end up using. I booked through Caravan Cafe when they were still going.
Regarding the size of the group, that shouldn't change things too much as the basis upon which you are let in is that you're doing an expedition. What your guide will basically do is to book an expedition for 10-12 people and then cancel the other people off.
Hope that this helps.
Charles

Hi all,

So in the end, I have agreed with Wayne (July xie) for a passage from Torugarth pass to Tashkurgan. I have still have to send him the docs by email but the final cost should be 550 euros for the bike. I have to take care of the visa and don't know yet wether I should get a transit or a tourist visa... As to the organisation, a guide is supposed to meet me at the border to help me to declare the customs and send me off at Tashkurgan. Fingers crossed...

Alex

Ps: I am about to start a new thread on the garage met by riders along the silkroad... If you have already experienced some, thanks to share it :thumbup1:

Hi Alex (not Aleskandra), sorry we stole your thread for a while.

Is that 550e to ride to Tash with a car following? That seems pretty good. We have been quoted the same for a truck from Irk to Khunjerab (with 2 hotels). Riding would be more fun.

Ch

I expect to be riding - the deal is that he gets all the permits (temporary licence plates, driving licence, etc...). But I should probably request to have it written down... I'll let you know. No hotel included though.