ALGERIA anyone ?
 

Hello everyone,

the HUBB is mainly 2-wheel oriented, I know, however from a certain age, I found that travelling the world on a bike is no longer first choice. In particular when it comes to journeys to more remote locations requiring more gear, provisions and creature comforts to be carried.

algeria
 

Am surprised that after all the views there has been no replies,
Algeria looks like a massive untapped area for adventure bikes and cars, is it very difficult to get paperwork or visas, i do realise there are areas that would be not the safest places to roam but i do think most people on this forum accept this, having worked in morocco i think this would be very much the same but on a larger scale, anybody have any more info on this country,

Algeria
 

@jbrevel, thanks for pointing that out. It´s maybe to do with the old animosity between bikers and 4-wheelers. To many, cars and trucks are the enemy no.1 and vice versa.

That aside, Algeria is little known in the English speaking world. The fascination is with Mauritania, for whatever reason. When you compare the two countries, M. is rather barren and nowhere near the spectacular beauty of the Algerian Sahara.

110 years ago - Algeria
 

When I was researching the first motorcycle ride around the world (1912-1913) by Carl Stearns Clancy I found this map drawn by the 22 year-old MOTORCYCLE ADVENTURER (name of the book about his accomplishment). In the text I wrote that he said they really didn't know what to do with him and his Henderson motorcycle, so in he went.


I tried the same in 1991, 2002, and again in 2006, also tried securing a visa over that time in the USA, France and Morocco...all to no avail, even when I spoke in French :-) The one card I could have played was using my security clearance (USA), but opted to try instead my journalist/press card - which didn't work. There was one offer to tag along on an expensive guided tour...Clancy didn't follow a guide on a tour, so I also passed in the spirit of his adventurous journey around the globe.


Clancy highly praised the scenery of Algiers as he crossed it, and noted his motorcycle was the first, to his knowledge, to be seen by camels.

Sunchaser: I'd have to wonder about claiming "journalist" in applying for a visa--that's always been something to avoid, AFAIK. And US security clearance is likely even worse. Any reason you didn't just say "teacher," as many do?

You were applying for an Algerian visa? Or for a specific route?

No shortage of interest in southern Algeria, as indicated in other threads over the years.

The absence of responses might have more to do with the appearance (in the original post) of a commercial tour offering. If you're describing a professional tour--as you state you've been conducting for 10 years in Algeria, Tunisia, and Libya--that will narrow the field of responses. I'd guess that calling out "animosity" between transport preferences will tend to do the same.

Mark

@mark..dunno, a commercial tour is impossible at that rate. The background of an ex-commercial operator can only be beneficial, no ?

The animosity is a fact, in EU at least, big time. You never see the bikers and the 4x4 folk mingling, they are not even talking to each other, say on the ferry, where there would be plenty of time during a 24hr crossing to Africa.

That might be different in the US now. I appreciate, that calling out the truth is not to everyones liking, however, when planning to travel Algeria, it is better to face the facts than beating around the bushes. In general, that is.

Curious you say the Algerian Sahara hasn't been travelled by people in their own 4x4's for a long time when its simply not true.

The relevant sub-forum has details of people who have travelled the region over the last few years and both Geko Expeditions and Acacia Aventura regularly run tours there for similar prices.

Claiming that there's "animosity" between 4 wheelers and 2 wheelers as a "fact" might lead people like me to assume they don't want to join your tour. In 88 countries on a 2 wheeler and most of Europe in a 4 wheeler I've never given nor received animosity to/from people who travel by the "other" vehicle type. What am I doing wrong? How should I change my attitude?

How To - Visa Applications
 

Markhaft: Re your query above: "I'd have to wonder about claiming "journalist" in applying for a visa--that's always been something to avoid, AFAIK. And US security clearance is likely even worse. Any reason you didn't just say "teacher," as many do?
You were applying for an Algerian visa? Or for a specific route?"

Hopefully to reduce any stressful degree of wonderment and enhance your level of AFAIK re: how to apply for, and secure, a visa for Algeria, and elsewhere, I have sent you a pm to this off topic query.






Regards,

No one has crossed the Sahara with his/her own vehicle for the past ten years. I am not talking about going down South on tarmac, that has always been feasible. No tour operator has run self-drive tours in Algeria with a true desert crossing over that time either.

If you look at Geko´s itinerary, you'll see that they travel on tarmac to Djanet and do a loop in the Tassili..which is something entirely different to what is proposed here. Their rates are w/o ferry and visa, i.e. there is at least 1.3k on top of what you see. Comparing apples with pears is not helpful.

I can assure you, it is impossible to run a commercial tour for 4x4´s over 3weeks in DZ for 2.5k. If you can do that, you are in business, big time, there is strong interest from Italy, France and the German speaking countries.

@Chris..you might want to open your eyes and ears. I witnessed animosity towards yourself: you brought your bike to a 4x4 show in the UK, quite a number of folks were commenting: "what does he want here on his bike?" And that was not said in a curious way.

Another incident I saw on a motorway on the continent: a car cuts across a bike, the biker accelerates and kicks off the far side mirror of the car with his foot whilst overtaking on the wrong side. A friendly gesture ? Maybe not.

That aside, the animosity was not my idea, a lot has been written about it and studies carried out, just one example:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...01457518301854

If you search the web, you'll find plenty about the topic. It could help to stop that wishful thinking and face the facts instead.

It seems you need to do more research. People have crossed the Algerian desert in their own vehicles in the last 10years but maybe you haven’t been looking in the right place.

A Swiss couple are there at the moment, links to their websites age are in the sub forum, they’ve also escaped the need for escort during their trip. Friends were in the Algerian Sahara last autumn but they don’t publish anything online.

With an included ferry your price is cheap but not beyond the reach of other operators pricing.

My earlier comment was not a criticism of your proposal but to raise the error in your your mistaken comment that nobody has travelled the region in their own vehicles, which is simply not true.

If you truely want to gather some interest in you recce, then it may be wise to make less antagonistic comments online.

Looks like I've dodged the hugest of bullets. Thanks.

Now having a lot of time on my hands and never having been to Algeria (always wanted to go until those terrorist kidnappings occurred in 2003), I was in the market to join your "tour". With your animosity, seemingly to most things, I'm not.

By "travelling" I mean actually travelling outside your home comfort zone to far and not so far away places where there's a brother/sisterhood of vehicle "travellers". Travel broadens the mind. Travellers need travellers.

Road rage?! Some random car driver cutting up a 2 wheeler on a European/North American motorway and having his mirror taken off for his efforts, isn't travelling. It's just the car driver behaving like a d!ck and could lead to a jail sentence. Causing death by dangerous driving.

Why would I want to bring a motorcycle to a 4x4 show? It's a 4x4 show. The clue is in the name. Why are the commenting 4x4 folk not actually travelling somewhere beyond their local weekend event, rather than just speaking nastily about people who might be in the market to buy a 4x4 or take a 4x4 tour or just hoping to meet whom they thought were like minded souls?

In my best-behaved, mildest, most inoffensive voice...

I'd like to suggest that discussion in this thread return to the topic at hand, which if I remember correctly was something about a planned trip to Algeria. Anyone tempted to post here might first scroll to the top of the page and refresh their memory.

Thanks. I'll now remove my moderator hat and resume misbehaving, speaking harshly, and offending one and all.

Mark

The OP diverted at a tangent and I’d rather not just let those remarks go unanswered.

In my experience this talk about animosity between bike travellers and 4x4 travellers is a load of bull.

Many is the time I’ve had great experiences meeting up with 4x4 owners on the road, and in recent years the HUBBUK meetings have been open to travellers of all persuasions—cyclists, bikers and 4x4 owners.

Even though we all feel like we are experiencing mass tourism on overlanding tours, this is not the reality.

On the road, things are different. In my 120,000 kilometers of travel through Iceland, Europe, Africa, and South America, those who seek a quiet spot outside of urban areas in the evenings are typically alone.

Most 4x4 overlanders travel alone, but they occasionally run into each other at popular sightseeing spots such as UNESCO World Heritage Sites, national parks, guided tours (rafting, ziplining, diving), and so on.

They meet, but rarely.

The typical 4x4 vehicles are designed for autonomy of up to 10 days, which means that the frequency of necessary procurement for water, food, and fuel is relatively low.

For example, Brummie had 280 liters of diesel, 85 liters of water, a 15-liter cooler, a 15-liter freezer, a solar panel, and a board battery. With two travelers, you can easily live off the vehicle for 12 days, and on day 12, there were still two steaks to cook on the campfire.

So the intersections for meeting each other are even lower.

I have never seen an overlander camping in nature on a motorcycle during my travels. Otherwise, I would certainly offer them a cold beer and invite them to the campfire in the evening.

It is likely that the majority of motorcycle overlanders opt to stay at campsites or hostels. (we travellers by 4x4 try to avoid camspites & hostels)

Today, travel behavior seems to be changing, especially because famous influencers (+1 million followers) seem to prefer traveling in groups for creating content (mentioned at Buschfunk). I don't know if it's a lack of adventurous spirit or the desire to create content together.

Surfy

A couple of photos of en-piste meetings with ever-friendly 4x4 owners. The first was four Spanish guys, I was descending from the top of the Dades route. It was a real hot day and they invited me over for a couple of ice-cold San Miguel lagers and a bocadillo de jamon.

The second is a couple I've met before whose name escapes me (Charles, maybe), this was on the link piste between the Todra and the Dades.

As for bikers camping in nature...



Number one with my son-in-law

Second with no tent, just a groundsheet to pull over once I got into the sleeping bag. It was at 2200m and got real cold.

I was fond of the basic tent in third example. This was starting to pack away.

Another night without a tent. Also without sleeping mat, sleeping bag and everything else. I was overcome with tiredness, night was drawing in. All I had was my emergency bag. It got down to 0ºC in the early hours. Every so often I would fire up the engine to stick some heat into my electric jacket.

As a 4x4 person, I've shared beers and travel with many on 2 wheels, non of the mysterious animosity the OP mentions.

At the moment I'm waiting to hear if a bike who had a serious accident in the Western Sahara has arrived back home on the medivac flight after I spend several days assisting with customs and bike storage while he recovers

There's some truth in this I think, Surfy. I certainly feel that there has been a growing tendency to take more of a 'tickbox' approach to overland travel in recent years - i.e. to go to a country and your own vehicle, and to focus on seeing a list of the better known sites/rides/locations.

I have also wondered whether this has been fuelled by social media - you only have to look at content on YouTube etc and you'll see that people posting for [x] country all post very similar videos.

My experience on the ground last summer in Georgia/Armenia mirrored that - in the 3 months I was fortunate to have there, I rarely saw other overland motorcyclists or trucks outside of the better known locations.

None of this is meant as a criticism, I should add. If you have the privilege of being able to travel, particularly on a motorbike or car, then we are all 'tourists' whether we like it or not; though I think there are a lot of people in the overland community who activity seek to claim otherwise, which is rubbish IMO.

I've travelled that way in the past though nowadays I prefer a different approach; I find it far more rewarding to focus on a particular area (rather than a specific number of locations), exploring it in-depth.

Three reflections on this:

1) The accessibility of adventure vehicles and growth of overland travel, combined with social media, is likely a factor because it is becoming more mainstream as a result.
2) As the number of people doing it grows, then the reality is that overland travel will become less of preserve of the 'hardcore' and become another form of popular tourism. Not everyone has the inclination or ability to do multiple trips, so they have to go for breadth over depth.
3) And for many people, maybe that approach is just enough.

Some Sunday evening musings whilst drinking a cuppa of tea in a rather nippy London.