Where is the best country for a traveller to settle in ?
 

Let's be honest. Who doesn't travel and then dream of settling down somewhere. In their own paradise. Some of my trips have been based in fact finding for finding somewhere that I finally want to settle in.

I've got a short list.

What's yours ?

I suspect that I will end up in France at some point - travelling back home (UK) to see kids as required whilst being able to go around continental Europe and further afield as I want. Eastern Europe - the Balkans spring to mind - has some advantages in that I would be able to save a significant amount of time on the first leg of trips.

One of the things to take into consideration is how easy it is to get regulatory approval to stay. Some countries make that easy, others don't. Some require large investments or deposits, others don't. Some have special "retirement visa" regimes, others don't. It's definitely doable - just requires a bit of research.

I always assumed this would happen. That as I explored the world I would find my happy spot, a community I love, perhaps a person that became more important than travel.

Turns out travel is my paradise.

Ten years and counting.

The only thing that surprised me was changing to travel without a motorcycle. Traveling by motorcycle has a special place in my heart as this is how I began, but it is the travel I love. Moving through the world, my only possessions those I carry with me. This is my home, my paradise.

Though I have plans in the works to return to motorbike travel.

That was always my plan, but plans change & i ended up in Australia.

Mezo.

A good question Ted and one I have thought about quite a lot, the place that has stood out as somewhere I would like to live is the Central California coast, a moderate climate that allows year round riding, some great scenery and access to a geographically diverse country. For obvious reasons such as visa requirements and the cost of living, especially healthcare that is not going to happen so I have to content myself with visits when I can manage them.
I do enjoy living in this corner of the UK but try to spend as much of the winter as possible somewhere warmer which is something I have managed for most of the last 15 years, except the last two of course, India being a popular choice for my winter getaway, I don't see me ever emigrating but hope to get back to winters somewhere warmer next year.

The fundamental problem is that wherever you move, you're bringing with yourself the things that you moved away from.

That said, New Zealand has come the closest for me so far.

Im far away from settling down. But I imagine it will be with an Asian wife in a country like Vietnam, Thailand or The Philippines (somewhere in SEA).

Nothing keeping you in the UK (or the part of it you currently live in anyway) Ted?

I wrote a huge long ramble of a post looking at why I would and wouldn't move to certain areas but then deleted it as boring, but I see others have mentioned many of the same places. So, in the interests of brevity here's the short version -

1. I like where I currently live (Oxfordshire)
2. Nowhere further north - can't stand winters any more. That cuts out much of the UK and (sadly) Sweden where we have friends and family.
3. I'm a Med climate sort of person. Arid but not Sahara arid. However - the actual Med = too crowded. California = a cultural wasteland. South Africa = never been but doesn't tick many of the other boxes.
4 Rest of Europe - language issues vs old dog = no new tricks is a hurdle and I don't want to live in an expat ghetto.
5. North America - After travelling around much of the area fantasy house move had us ticking New Mexico (Santa Fe area) and Quebec (winter again) but there are bits of the east coast below NY (so not New England = winter) that work well for us.
6. Far east - friends experiences living in Thailand (with a Thai wife), Hong Kong and China suggest we'd find it culturally tricky living there now. Oz could be the perfect place (friends in Brisbane give us an insiders view) but it falls down on the next bit.

Biggest problem though is the ties that bind. Both of us have psychological reasons for our base remaining in the UK so our escape has been to buy a small place in the French Alps 15yrs ago. It's too small to move to permanently but it does refresh your soul when the sun streams in over the mountain tops in the morning.

During my trip I was able to get a superficial picture of guys who did start a new life far away.

I did meet many lonely wolfes during my journeys. Who did start their retirees live early in their 50ties - in cheaper countrys.

Many, or say better most of them was in a situation who just looks good in the first view. They life somewhere, where others are doing holidays. But everywhere where I did stay some weeks - those view change quickly.

Alcohol or drug abuse, bitterness, not able to deep dive into local culture, womens who just join them because of money, lonelyness.. The locals didnt have any respect pretty quickly, if you are regulary drunk. Those wolfes did try to stay with tourists, to get accompany - what ends with party and shallow talks, who dont makes them happy.

Those who seams to have a good life, they was married, kids and did was involved in a local busines, means they had something to do, they had a mission.

Guess that is not different to living at home. To be unemployed extended - most of us can not handle well.

If you are not happy at home, do you think living in another country will makes things better?

Surfy

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence, especially by the septic tank. I have met several expats who gave up their citizenship and lived to regret it.

Dare to take the step
 

I do no know about any paradise.
Most people are probably happy where they are.
But is also about to dare taking that step.
To whatever it is.
Long distace travellers have already taken the step out of their know comfort zone. When going travelling. So maybe it is easeir for them/us.

=

Many have remained there in their context and wished that they would have dared to take the step out into the unknown, dare life, but remained there in their context even though they wanted to move on, because the unknown scared and they knew what they had, even though they were tired of it and did not develop. Of course, there are those who remain and are well, it is not those I want to highlight, but those who knew they would have had more to give over there. If they only had taken the step… ..

Then there are those who have dared to take the step out of their comfortable contexts, even though they were afraid when they went out into deep water. But after a while they have realized that they actually fixed the new, that they developed even though it was difficult in the beginning.

The story is in the bible

Shortly before dawn Jesus went out to them, walking on the lake. When the disciples saw him walking on the lake, they were terrified. “It’s a ghost,”They said, and cried out in fear.
But Jesus immediately said to them: “Take courage! It is I. Don’t be afraid.”
“Lord, if it’s you,” Peter replied, “tell me to come to you on the water.”
“Come,”he said. Then Peter got down out of the boat, walked on the water and came toward Jesus. But when he saw the wind, he was afraid and, beginning to sink, cried out, “Lord, save me!” Immediately Jesus reached out his hand and caught him. “You of little faith,” he said, “why did you doubt. And when they climbed into the boat, the wind died down

Thats excactly what I have done. Traveled, fall in love with this country (my paradise), prepared myself for emigrating and settled down here.


Where is the best country? That depends on each traveller. For me it is Iceland, for Backofbeyond and Mark Manley it is definitely not Iceland :)


Erik_G talks about taking that step and he is right: it is a huge step, also depending on ones situation of course.



Grumpy geezer talks about the grass being greener on the other side. That´s true. There is good and bad everywhere, everything has its advantages and disadvantages.


AnTyx said: The fundamental problem is that wherever you move, you're bringing with yourself the things that you moved away from.
And Surfi said: If you are not happy at home, do you think living in another country will makes things better?


I would say to this: yes you take yourself with you but if you can change the things which make you unhappy at home or leave them behind, then you can build up a new live without those problems.
Of course this depends on the kind of problems or the reasons which make you unhappy.


It can also be that one isn´t unhappy but just want to move somewhere else. For me I can say, I had my share of problems and I had to take a big decision, it was hard and it was a lot of work to move, but it turned out well for me. I felt it was not just moving and continue with life, it was building up a new life.


Best regards,
Rögnvaldur

I have no intention of staying anywhere, in the sense of stopping travelling, however I've reached the point where I feel that my current home base is just that - a base from which we'll travel frequently (Covid-19 permitting, which looks a long way off right now).

Colombia has one major advantage over most places - you can change ecosystems/climates very easily. From Bogotá we can be hiking in the páramo in an hour, or be lazing by a pool an hour in a different direction. We can be on the Pacific Coast, the Caribbean Coast, the Amazon or Orinoco, or in the near-perfect climate of the Eje Cafetero within the same country. Bogotá itself has a climate in which you can go out for a walk every day of the year, in comfort - not too hot, not too cold.

That won't stop us from spending weeks, months, or a couple of years in other places - Iceland, Bhutan, Singapore, Japan...

Apart from the weather. Which is my main dislike of the U.K. Endless grey skies, drizzle and short unpredictable summers. As an ourdoor person, it's a MAJOR factor. I hate the cold..

Oh most definitely. I am certainly at a cross-roads in life in quite a few ways.

Great reply :thumbup1:



It's never been a secret. I really don't like the U.K. It's horribly over-populated, insanely expensive, the weather is really SH*T. I also really have a problem with our right-wing, racist, hateful small minded political system too. Which had developed into a real cancer over the last five years too. Brexit was the final nail in the coffin for me really. I feel very out of touch with what it means to be British now. It's a bit of an embarrassment now.

I know A LOT of like minded people who are fleeing the U.K. "Rats jumping ship" as they call it. Many were smarter than me and moved when they were younger or still had a passport that meant anything. Now I feel very much trapped on this crowded cess-pit of greed due to my age and limited passport (wow, well done Brexit)

A very good friend of mine bought some land on the East coast of Costa Rica last year and built himself a beautiful home there. He literally lives in a rainforest paradise a few KM from a deserted beach. It's a quiet, relaxed place with just enough tourism to keep life interesting but it's well off the gringo trail in the West. He did all this for less than I could buy a parking space in the U.K with.

So now I'm 41, no kids and inherited house that I need to sell in the U.K, I'm thinking that it's now or never. My fiancee is onboard so why not eh ?

So your situation is one that allows you to up sticks and go at this point without any real issue. I would make a few comments / questions:

Wherever you go be sure that you want to be there all year round - for instance Malta is lovely in the spring and autumn, it is hot in the summer (moderated by the sea breezes) and a little chilly in the winter (but way better than the UK - though it is not unknown, even if it is unusual, for it to snow and settle for a short while). Some parts of Malta close in winter due to lack of numbers.

Are you going to work and if so do you have the right to do so? If you don't initially what hurdles do you have to go over to get the right to work. Are your skills, and your fiance's, in demand in the country / region you are thinking of going to? Can you develop your skills into something needed in that community?

Are you going to sell the properties that you have or rent them out - renting out allows an easy return to the UK at relatively short notice for whatever reason?

Initially there is a lot of sense in long term renting (12 months plus) in your target area to ensure that the area suits you, to ensure that you can get involved in the community - as has been said just sitting around with the tourists will not be spiritually fulfilling. One thing about having kids is that it forces you to integrate into the community through their schooling - typically lots of friends for you both come from that.

Finally, once you have moved post your address up so we can all come visit you - you know it makes sense. :innocent: For those that arrive after any child arrives they can be considered voluntary babysitters.

You aren`t leaving only your bad weather country and a house you sold, you leave a country with a mentality and culture you can read with blind eyes. You will get bored by nice and warm weather and you will wish rain and coldness back.

You are leaving your friends and other social bindings you will earliest recognize in the moment when they aren`t available. You will proof your relation to your fiancee and vice versa the hard way!

You replace your well known legal rules and procedures against new written and unwritten ones. And maybe this you have to learn through existing language barriers.

You may think you will leave rascism and xenophobic behaviors but will earn new forms of this equal where you go. You be will an active part in it instead of being somebody who only hears and read more about.

It did it twice in my life, by job for a couple of years and with the help of relocation services as well as a boss who help me a lot in integrating in the new social society and finding friends. It`s all manageable but it was hard and tough time for me. I recognized a substitution from old dislikes and problems against new ones.

You can do it without support and services I had but be sure it will be tough and hard. You will learn a lot new about youself, your fiancee and you will suffer from paying much more than locals in the first time. It will be a time and nerve consuming adventure for a long run.

Only after going through this by quite some time you would know if your dicision was right or wrong and if you would have found your place of desire.

I am happy that I did it and that I made the experience in my life twice. I am also happy that I know I will do it better next time. And that I learned more about me, my needs and wishes.

Only advice I would give to you is: Reserve some money for a restart in your home country in case that all wouldn`t work as you wished and wanted.

Yep 100% overpopulated & the weather is shit, expensive? i disagree on that one.

Your age will always be an issue unless you have loads of money, i got in just in the nick of time, they want you to work & pay taxes for said amount of years, thus why there is a cutoff date (age wise).

In all honesty Ted you should have been doing this ten years ago, with your skills they would have rolled out the red carpet.

Mezo.

Sounds like you need a holiday Ted. Lockdown with nothing but the BBC, The Mail and Facebook to sustain you does tend to do strange things to your psyche. Dump the lot, take a day off and go for a walk on the moors. Breath deep and remind yourself that none of that stuff is real. It's all just a bunch of chancers trying to separate you from reality (and thereby your bank account).

My take on it is that life on Planet Earth runs on the three laws of (social) thermodynamics:

1. You can't win

2. You can't break even

3. You can't get out of the game

Moving somewhere else for a negative reason (e.g. 'I can't stand this place') has pretty much ended badly for everyone I've know who's done it. They've either regretted it (and been stuck so they can't move back) or a short while later found themselves in more social sh*t / dodgy politics than they were surrounded by originally. The good moves have usually been e.g. where a job's been on offer or they had some prior connection with the area. I (long long ago) once considered moving down to the Garmisch area of Bavaria for lifestyle reasons until my (then) girlfriend's Bavarian rellies told me all about the '39-45 politics still considered normal in the area. The grass may look greener from a distance but you need to look carefully at what it's growing on.

I agree on the weather though (and the overpopulation, and Brexshit and Indy Ecosse and .....) :(

You say that, but I come from a North European country, and I have done enough counter-cyclical travel to realize that I need seasons. I can't live somewhere like Singapore, where the weather is damn near static year-round. I need winter for the same reasons that soil needs crop rotation.

That's part of what I like about NZ - it's got the advantages of Australia (a language I speak, excellent variety of nature, sane approaches to things like healthcare and education) without the disadvantages (nothing is particularly poisonous, there are places to legitimately enjoy winter/spring/fall, and the national self-image seems to be significantly less full of itself).

I used to go to Malta a lot for work. Scandalized my Israeli and Cypriot colleagues by having a dip in the sea in February. :) But my god is that place full up. This is a bike enthusiast forum, right? Exactly one long coastal highway where you zoom a bit, and no real free land to offroad on... And the only ferry connection is to Sicily, so you might as well move there for the same weather, more space, and much better food!

Good question and some thoughtful answers.

I am with Ted with regards to how the UK at the moment is but I firmly believe that this will be temporary. If you look at the policies of the current Gov they are to the left of Corbyn in some instances, well done Rishi.

Agree with both ^^^

I will probably settle/stay in the UK. The UK is a great place, where the majority of folk are tolerant, kind and understanding. They are the ones I like to focus on and surround myself with. One day I will head towards the countryside but will still enjoy travel if I can.

I have lived and travelled to a few places and I've been tempted to stay longer than planned but I still haven't found one place that would keep me there forever. I haven't spent long enough in many places I briefly visited to get a proper feel of the place and I haven't visited everywhere I'd like to yet, so for me it's impossible to say where is best for me to settle.

I am very open to settling outside the UK but I think it would be a decision based on circumstances at that moment in time, especially the people around me at that time.

where its warm
 

+ 2 on Colombia my home
Although New Zealand looks pretty good But my pension could not afford any luxury in paradise

Travel possibilities
 

Well,
if you like to drive or travel by motorcycle.
Then it is better to live were there are more possibilities.

The problems with snow and ice on the roads in Sweden during winter, did not follow me to Portugal.

I'd have to agree with your assessment. Malta is a lovely little country and I enjoyed visiting it - but it is definitely not a paradise for motorcycling.

I wasn’t advocating Malta - it is certainly no motorcycle heaven - but using it it’s an example regarding the seasons - and meaning that you need to see a place over a longer period than, say, two months as you may all into the trap of assuming that it is like that all year round.

Personal aspects we had disucussed already.

Social aspects
As long as you leave (and stay) as couple - you be fine for the start. A relationship is not allways easy. So much communication can go wrong if you had to talk in another language. And then there is the different culture. My full respect for all who keep a relationship running that way!

In your case you both had to learn the langugage and the culture, to get local friends with the time. As a couple you can be self sufficent for a while, but I would avoid to stick just with expats around you.


Money aspects:
You come from the first world. High Income with an expensiv environment. You can work as a barkeeper in a nightclub in equador for 500$. Normal income for a local, you can live too for that cash.

But like the locals in Equador you are not able to travel out of that cash you earn. You dont do anything for your own pension too.

Even with an educated job you earn just enough for a good life, not for getting cash too for your retirement. You mostly dont earn enough money for travelling like you can now.

Work hard too, for less cash - that is not easy to accept after some years.

So with leaving your homecountry for an extended time, you are not able anymore - to go back to your homecountry and to live there without help of the gouverment - pension is too small.

I dont want to say you cant go. You just have to consider that.

If you want to buy a small house with 5`000m2 of land, partly growing your own vegetables, your own fruits, live a healthy and simple live - that is easier where the land dont cost you 400`000$ and the 4 Saisons gives you a short time to grow up stuff for eating.

If you still want to be able to buy a new car from time to time, to own a newer smartphone to surround you with the actual editions of Television and Hifi - you better stay in the first world.

The hard thing is, that we cant know exactly - what will make us happy in 15 years. And you are not alone. What makes you wife happy in this time? And your growing kids?

These are difficult decisions that cannot be easily reversed. 15 Years you didnt pay into the pension system - will bring you under social care at age if you will go back. Baby teds probably also not happy to pay for you later.

This only counts, if you (or your family) wants to go back. If you are happy there - you will have a good life in paradise.

Moving inside of the first world, can push you also for career, can easily end with an higher income. To move in the 2nd or 3rd world - may be a one way path.

Lucky you if you already retired - you can life where you want - specially if you will get the pension out of the first world.

Surfy

We have travelled a fair bit, separately before we met and together. In the end we are both Europhiles.
We love the history, architecture and art. We love the fact that you can be in 4 different countries in 1 day, all with different languages, food, architecture, culture etc... and the diverse geography is compacted into such a small area. Take in North Africa and you can be in any of the world’s topical regions within a 2 week holiday.
Obviously this is us and everyone is different.
We also like the seasons and living in the UK, with all the social etc reasons already mentioned.
However, I do find England crowded, even though I live in a rural county. The other thing I have a mental block about is the ferry/tunnel. For some reason it feels like a much bigger hassle and expense than it really is. We have Dutch friends and sometimes meet them in the Ardennes for a weekend. Takes us 2 days to get there, they can work till lunchtime on a Friday and pull into the campsite at 5.30. Yes we could do it in 1 very long day but then you’re knackered for the weekend.

So all things considered it’ll be Northern France I think, possibly Brittany running a small holiday business to keep us busy - not as an income (to dodgy).

Ted, if you don’t like the cold you could head south. You’d be surprised how much warmer it is in the south east counties of England. We’re originally from Surrey but have lived in Manchester, Sheffield and now Lincoln. When our friends come up we forget about the temperature and eventually realise when they’re sitting on the sofa with a jumper and coat on - then we put the heating on. Also when we head south we really notice the nice weather.
Oh, and it’s not too late for Oz - 50 is the cut off point. But it’s not the UK with sunshine, it’s very different and not for everyone (50% return, I believe) so be careful.

Or you could just have kids and you wouldn’t have the time or energy to think about this......or anything else doh:D

mark talks sense
 

This is a solid scenario. We all have dreams, but unless all the right pieces fall into place they are only fantasies.
There are two stages to retirement.
1. An active stage where you have the cash and hopefully the health to fulfil your fantasies, on average in the UK thats around seven years after retirement.

2. Your health starts to decline and this impacts on all aspects of your life. On average in the UK retirement lasts for 18 years (According to HSBC Planing for retirement) 7 years you have money after that..well who knows.

You have to be strategic and plan. You have to be realistic and not rely on the state to look after you, this post war scenario is rapidly diminished.

A. Establish some clear goals, both short and long term
B. Benchmark yourself
C. Establish a comprehensive financial plan
D. Implement the plan
E. Keep your plan under review

Keep your eye on the financial pulse!
I think Mark's statements are the most viable scenario, but others circumstances vary-so enjoy yourself while you can!
Kind regards
James

Doesn't quite work like that, you need 65 points & the younger you are the more points you get, 33-40 is 25 points, 40-45 is 15 points & over 45 i don`t think you get any & as Brucey used to say "points make prizes" not sure what Ted`s skills are worth? and even if they are on the list at the moment?

Mezo.

Yes I’m not sure what Ted’s points would be, I do know that my wife and I qualified until we were 50. I also have a friend who is a bricklayer and went out in his late 40s - he engaged a professional immigration company to help and Oz was desperate for bricklayers at that time.

Ted, I’ve just reread your OP and I must say I don’t really dream of ‘settling down’ anywhere.

I like living in different places for a few years at a time. I find it exciting to discover new places, not just On a holiday or travelling basis but a living basis - then move on. That way I always have a positive outlook on those places and, indeed, everywhere I live. It’s amazing the amount of people I talk to, who have only lived in one place, that are negative about where they live. Then I tell them all the positive things and the great places to go in the area.

If you haven’t got dependants and transferable skills, give it a try.

At 41 as a qualified motorcycle tech I could still make it to Aus/NZ/Canada and apply for residency after five years. However I'd have to be sponsored to make the points at my age. I think the age cut off is 45/46 in Aus to be sponsored (basically hired by an Aussie bike shop to keep my visa).

And there is the cut !! I'd have to be employed. On their clock. With their rules. A six day week 9am-6pm main dealer technician. I'd be worse off than I am now. I'd be in the sunshine but I'd be a performing monkey in a cage.

I am currently self employed. Running my own shop and contracting for another dealer three days a week. I'm my own boss and I choose when I work or not.

That is something which stops me looking for any points based immigration system. They are just looking for cattle to milk.

Some absolutely excellent replies here. I have read every one carefully.

:thumbup1:

Yep you're dead right Ted, especially if you chose to go to AUS, there plenty of horror stories of people getting treated like dogshit from the sponsoring employers & that`s because until you get your residency he has you by the balls & there is nothing you can do about it.

I went down the Kiwi road & they treat you with respect.

Mezo.

Let my say it very very simplified:

"You need cash and have to be able to buy a local company, there you can employ yourself".

This way works in most countries more or less. Has to be worked out in detail for each country, because the details count. In some countrys you can only own a part of a company as foreigner, as example.

So you can avoid the sponsoring stuff. Even if you have the cash, you had to think through in detail. You need time for get a feeling about local prices for buying a company and to do a business plan who calulate local habbits.

You need more help as at home, at home you know the steps for another employe as example.

If you was able to run your own business at home, you will be able to run it in another country. But you need more time (to learn local rules) or more money to buy the expertise.

In Aus/NZ/Canada you shouldnt have to fight the language barrier (if you dont start in the french canadien part).

Out of my memories you should even have a better life and work/life balance there.

Many ways to go. I like the funny part - who also is able to show a part of the reality:

How expensive is a big mac?
https://de.statista.com/statistik/da...einen-big-mac/

How long do we have to work for a big mac?
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...-working-time/

Just shows a part of the reality, because most here at HuBB dont work at the minimum payment per hour...

Surfy

Whoever wrote that passage in the bible must have been a motorcycle rider. The concept still holds true today- as soon as I put on the rainsuit, the rain stops. :smartass:

That works here in OZ as well, Asians buy businesses like cafe`s for say $100k & are eligible for a visa, business has to have been trading for x amount of years & it must employ two or three Aussies (i forget the exact details).

Mezo.

Where to settle finally
 

Can I put in a plug for an island nation down the bottom of the world-'Stralia! The centre can get a bit hot but most people live on the coast or a short way inland from the coast. It has the tropical climate in the north, cooler temps on an island not far off the mainland called 'Tassie" and moderate temperatures along the coast. Budgie smugglers (better known as swimming costumes for the male of the species) are recommended as summers are long and the beaches beckon. Females -bring your costumes also. The cost of living is moderate by European standards except for house ownership-quite expensive! Exotic animals abound such as the Hairy-nosed wombat, the Tasmanian devil, the numbat, the kangaroo, potaroo (I know what you're thinking but we do have them), echidna and the Platypus (one of only two egg-laying marsupials in the world) for all you animal buffs!
Road rules are usually quick to adapt to for most. Some motorists however see the STOP sign as merely a suggestion but that behaviour is frowned upon by the rest of the motoring community. Playing in the middle of the road is also frowned upon but now and again we see a snake or two catching a few rays on the road, with the usual result forthcoming unfortunately. Stay upright folks.