Taxes and fines in the UK
 

Hey guys,

Four years ago I bought a K1200 RS in the UK, using my friends address as I am from the US, and rode it to Croatia where I have been living for the last four years. It has been a great bike and I love it, but my contract with work is finishing and I have to figure out what to do with it now. (I am moving to Vietnam and will have to get something 250cc or smaller. If you have been there you know why)

One option I am considering is riding it back to the UK and trying to sell it there, but I am worried that there will be prohibitive fines/fees because I have not done anything with the paperwork for the last four years,

Does anyone know if this is a good idea? If not, are there other viable alternatives?

Help,
GS

Did you declare the bike SORN before leaving the UK?

It's a fairly straightforward procedure to sell the bike in an EU country (ie not Croatia). The buyer would have to take care of importing the bike and registering it, however in this case there would be no customs duties involved.

In your place I would probably just put the bike up for sale in Slovenia at an appropriately attractive price.

I'm assuming however that you declared the bike SORNed and /or permanently exported , right?

I did not declare it exported (oops!)
 

I did see that form on the registration, but at the time I figured I could renew the registration in England. I did not realize the complexities at that time.

Can I send that form in now? Am I completely "over-the-barrel" on this one?

Mu gut feeling is that there is no time limit for declaring that a bike is exported, even though it has been outside the UK for 4 years; kind of depends on if your friend has received any "nasty" mail about your bike at his home address concerning your bike.
For fuller discussion of the UK regulations there are sticky threads in "Trip Papework" which go into great, detailed discussion about all sorts of circumstances; when you identify your optimum solution to this one, you could add value to that thread!!

Good luck.

even if sorn was declared, it still has to be renewed every year (until they change the law soon if I recall correctly), so there could be quite a pile of fines in the post waiting at that address, probably gone to court, and letters from a debt collection agency by now.

K1200 - are you and the friend still friends? Has any correspondence been arriving at his address about this (or bailiffs?!)

Friend's dad is very old and has told me nothing.
 

The address I used my my friend's father's. (Can you have a double possessive) I have met him and he is very old and is the type that would not have indicated to my friend or me that anything had arrived. I will email my friend ASAP and see what has happened.

So what is the fine? Are we talking 100s of GBPs? Does anyone have any kind of estimate?

Hi

Its still on UK plates then, and you've never imported it into Croatia, new plates, import duties, etc?

From the UK Govt website

"There’s no way out" (they must like a bit of drama :))

"If you don’t make a SORN or tax your vehicle you could be stopped by the police.You’ll get an automatic penalty of £80, as well as paying for a new tax disc.
You could also get a County Court Judgment against you, and be fined a minimum of £1,000.
The maximum penalty for making a false SORN, when the vehicle is actually used or kept on a public road, is £5,000 and imprisonment."


From What if you don't tax or make a SORN : Directgov - Motoring

You have some good feedback here so far.

I would be surprised if your friends' Dad has heard absolutely nothing in 4 years, but there again, he may have just binned such paperwork going by your comment about him.
It would be interesting to hear about any update on that front.

Something that comes to mind is that you could just sell it locally on the basis of "let the buyer beware".
For instance, there would be a market for breaking your prized possession for sale of spares, or someone might just want the bike for re-registering locally.

Another thing I am reminded of: a while ago a whole sheaf of genuine UK registration documents (the V5c) were stolen in the UK; so many of them that the UK is now switching over from the blue version to a new red one.
You should get a new one therefore, or you may have one already at your friends' Dads' address (there's that double possessive again!!).

Am very surprised you've got away with riding it around Croatia for the last 4 years without being stopped - thought you were supposed to reregeister the bike there after having it there for 6 months. There is a reciprocal rule that states any vehicle being registered in 1 EU member state but used on the roads of another must comply with whatever MOT/Road tax rules exist in the state of registration, but that once it's been in the new state for > 6 months it must get registered etc there.

Also surprised (if this turns out to be the case) that you haven't been busted in the UK. If you haven't, you can bring it back to the UK but you'll have to have a pre-booked MoT to go to as soon as you step off the ferry - there are plenty of threads about this on the HUBB.

If they catch up with you, I guess they could fine you for not SORN-ing it, plus (at least in theory) unpaid tax for the time it was being used on Croatian roads without UK tax but without Croatian registration?

Uhm....Croatia is NOT part of the EU , ( at least not for another year or so).

that's not quite the issue though, how on earth do you go about insuring a foreign (un-)registered bike there....(if at all) ?

If I can paraphrase that, you can play fast and loose with the rules but don't lie, especially not in writing i.e. a SORN statement.
If you are interested, see what Old Git Ray (a retired policeman) has recently said about all things related to UK regs within the sticky in Trip Paperwork.

I am not as surprised about what goes on in the Balkans.
Croatia has only just joined the EU and it was not all that long ago that they had a civil war under way; rules don't mean a lot in those circumstances.
We haven't done suchlike for years (civil war that is), so here in the UK we like to have a load of rules that we can follow (or not).

UK plates, No insurance, No local registration, No problem
 

Croatia is a dream for motorcycles with foreign plates. The official police policy is to not chase motorcycles with foreign plates. This means that you can only be stopped if you actually stop (or crash). I was in heavy traffic once and could not get away, so I paid a spot fine of about 30 GBP. The cops are open to negotiations. They said I ran a red light (It was YELLOW), but we settled on a charge of "obstructing a pedestrian" (??) which had a lower fine. The cops were very friendly and actually wanted to chat with me about my trips.

This policy will eventually change and is thoroughly abused by all the Germans and Austrians motorcyclists that come to the coast during the summer. Until then, come this way and enjoy the amazing coast and total lack of traffic enforcement.

MOT and road tax are petty and incidental, but I can't condone you riding around without insurance. And if they catch you without that in the UK you WILL be in the sh1t.

Apologies, I thought they signed up at the start of this year.
Certainly they joined NATO a while back which is always used as a precursor to joining the EU.

Sounds like the Balkans of the 1990s.

:offtopic:but take care on those coastal roads; they used to be surfaced with limestone aggregate which is as polished and slippery as a slippery thing can be (limestone is not permitted in road surfaces in the UK); add in rain and/or a bit of oil on the surface and you have an even slicker surface.

Bloody German hooligan motorcyclists!! :mad2::mad2::censored::mad: Ruining it for all the other hooligan motorcyclists in the world who want to go to Croatia and ride like a hooligan!

:thumbdown:
Can you imagine....the sheer nerve some people have, trust those Germans to ride road legal and insured vehicles in someone else's country.....thereby avoiding finishing up behind bars, (in Croatia, just like anywhere else in europe, Balkans or not...)

It's good to know that I don't need to bother taking my green card with me every weekend when I go riding in Croatia....obviously it's not like it gets checked at the border anyway...stupid of me to even think of paying for it in the first place..

Oh and I must seriously be meeting the wrong Croatian policemen ..... as well as probably dreaming about the occasional spot checks (where the aforementioned green card was certainly asked for), as well as the zero tolerance for drunk driving.....:censored::stormy::rolleyes2: etc etc...

Hmm, you seem a little angry? Maybe I cut you up or scraped your paintwork or something last time I was riding in Croatia about 6 years ago, whilst riding drunk on my non-road-legal bike without insurance? :cool2: :nono: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :whistling: :censored: :rolleyes2: etc..

Hi Nath.....Hehe.....just taking the piss.... let me know next time you're down here and we can go and ride around like hooligans together. beer

Oh and extremely great blog by the way, I was up last night reading it all.

:scooter:

Cut the crap
 

Sorry havent read the post all the way througt - fell asleep.

Point is -you want to sell a UK bike that hasent been SORNed.
No probs.
Sell it as norm.
DVLC do not chase up out of SORN vechicles especicualy out of the country
Been there got the "T" shirt.
I could go into the details, but at this time of night - I can't be ****ed.

But ,i you think I,m lyeing I will offer you 25% of your bikes value.:smile2:


Appoligies to Grant and Co for my language.

As someone else out of country with a UK bike ( though insured but sorned) - I would sell the bike in the Balkans or in Romania - you will get a better price for it than in UK.

Have a ride over to sremska mitrovica - Serbia on 4/5 may - best party of the year MC Srem - can introduce you to some of the local crew who could help - and you can park the bike up with a for sale notice!!
PM me for more contact info....
Gavin

Ok...back on topic, sorry everyone.

The OP is getting some good advice, apparently the british official side isn't of much concern , why should the dvla bother to chase up someone who doesn't live in the Uk anyway ?

I already suggested Slovenia, out of convenience to the OP. It's an EU country, the capital is less than an hour away from Zagreb, there is a good market for used bikes, and buyers are more than happy to take care of importing, since unlike for Croatia there is No Import Tax.

It's true, Serbia and Romania are also great, the second one especially , because it's also in the EU.

To repeat what I said earlier: just put the bike up for sale locally, and you're sure to get it sold, for at least as much as you'd get in the UK. If things are as you say with your friend's father then who cares about what happens in britain?

PM me for suggestions on car websites, or local markets etc etc