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-   -   Tricks for not paying sleazy officials? (https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/travellers-advisories-safety-security-road/tricks-not-paying-sleazy-officials-89668)

schmookeeg 23 Nov 2016 11:19

Tricks for not paying sleazy officials?
 
Hello,

This week my wife and I drive into Africa, first time for both of us as adults.

In my travels to date, I have been very fortunate to only encounter corruption and sleaze in eastern europe, and then only for laughable amounts where the story was worth the 40 cents that the thief-in-uniform took off of me.

As such, I am not well prepared for dealing with officials who try to steal from us. As one who over-thinks things, this is a source of anxiety.

I prefer to smile and exercise patience in the face of adversity. I don't like confrontation unless I am 100% factually in the right -- a luxury I likely won't have.

I have bought a very large bag of "werther's original" hard candies to toss at cops who bashfully request "a small gift for me" -- I think this is an amusing approach, non-combative, and very cheap. I hope it works. If not, hey, we have werthers to eat in the car.

For more aggressive requests, however, I am under-equipped for how best to deal with them. It appears the common advice here is to request an "official receipt" to make them go away. Fine and good, I can do that. I've also seen pretending to dial the US Embassy can work. Okay. What other tricks make sense and can be delivered with a polite smile (so as to not escalate the bluff/demand)?

I *love* the very concept of the Zero Rupee note that is in India. The company behind the protest, 5th pillar, also offers a Zero Euro note. (Actually they offer Zero notes in just about every currency -- could be amusing) I'd very much love to pass one of these to some jerk official who was demanding cash from me -- but I am keenly aware that this is more "passive aggressive" that might be safe, and may start a much more confrontational situation. Bad form to call a thief a thief -- particularly a thief with a gun. Thoughts? I'm thinking of trying them out to get the "point" across in select situations.

I am resigned to the idea that I won't "win them all", and this is annoying to me, but I'm chalking it up as a cost of the trip, "learning experience", and "story fodder" all at once.

Appreciate any insights I can use to make it better for the guy behind me. :)

Cheers,

- Mike

gren_t 23 Nov 2016 11:44

Hi Mike, I took a number of copies of a Fiche containing passport and driving license details etc. when asked for passport or driving license I would hand over a fiche this also saves the honest police/guard from having to copy out your details to enter into a book.
And stops the dishonest from holding on to your documents while asking for Un Cadeau.. I also had colour copies of my driving license when they were insistent on the "real" thing.

Only time I had an issue was on the Mauritainia border with a border guard that was insistent on a gift, I said OK and offered my hand and said i offer my friendship.. he looked pissed and walked off.

The wife got caught speeding in Morocco but gladly paid the "without book" fine.

Keep a happy face and laugh/smile it's really just a game.:thumbup1:

Bonne Route
Gren

Thefastone 23 Nov 2016 12:48

i like the just smile and treat it as a game and try and win more than lose or lose smal

steve:thumbup1:

Tony LEE 23 Nov 2016 18:13

Quite effective in some countries is just to smile and nod and shrug and obviously not have a clue what they are saying - but of course that is becoming less useful now that many have smart phones and use google translate.

duibhceK 23 Nov 2016 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony LEE (Post 551632)
Quite effective in some countries is just to smile and nod and shrug and obviously not have a clue what they are saying - but of course that is becoming less useful now that many have smart phones and use google translate.

Well, they don't know what the quality of the translation is, you can still "misunderstand" what Google translate says. Type something back that doesn't even make sense in your own language but uses some words that are related to what they are saying but make no sense in the context :innocent:

When we travel we have a few strategies, sometimes they get combined:
- smile, stay happy and patient, stand your ground. Waste their time. Especially useful in situations where other potential victims are passing them by while they are getting nowhere with you.
- my wife starts crying. Very few men can stand the waterworks
- my wife starts arguing and getting angry with me. This works well in places where they are not used to women making a scene in public
- ask for official paperwork for whatever they are asking you to pay
- ask to be taken to an official police station to take care of things
- threaten or pretend to call the embassy or in countries where it is available a government anti-corruption service
- pay in ways that are not money or gifts. We once got rid of a border guard that kept asking for gifts by teaching him how to say "I love you" in French to a girl. Which he promptly tried out on a cute blond at the customs office :rofl:

Temporaryescapee 23 Nov 2016 21:48

My golden rule in Africa was 'engage with the person not the uniform'. Big smile, shake hands, ask they how they are as soon as you pull up - no problems.

If you allow the uniform to get to the fore you're on the back foot. Only had this on once - just stayed friendly and stood my ground.

Good luck!

GSPeter 24 Nov 2016 10:59

Tricks to avoid extortion
 
Hi all,
lots of good advice in the posts. Another important move when a "hungry" official stops you for whatever reason - remove your keys from the ignition, put them in your pocket. Now it is not so easy for him to hold you to ransom.
Most times "I don't understand" enough times will work, but be really friendly even if they are not. Adopt a submissive body posture, and don't raise your voice.
If you really have done something stupid/illegal then it might be a good idea to negotiate, especially if there are witnesses and you have to be seen to be "punished", the cop doesn't want to loose face in front of the locals. You are travelling on, and are not so important to him, it's the locals that are his bread and butter.
Most countries have some degree of corruption among officials and law-enforcment, you just have to sense the situation. They will let you know that there is a problem, and how much they charge to fix it. If you have to fork over cash, especially in a border control area, do it discretly. Notes in a folded paper form, never in your documents. You can keep the price down by not going up the command chain - it's your choice whether you want to oil the system, but it's certainly not going to stop because you make a row.

Wishing all safe and troublefree travels

Peter, in Oslo

duibhceK 24 Nov 2016 12:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by GSPeter (Post 551684)
Most times "I don't understand" enough times will work, but be really friendly even if they are not. Adopt a submissive body posture, and don't raise your voice.

In most cases I would agree. But sometimes causing a scene that attracts a lot of attention can be beneficial as well. If you play it right and you're lucky you can even help karma catch up with these guys.

On our 2nd exit of Armenia the customs broker we were assigned was ordered by a uniformed official to return all the paperwork we had given him, after we started causing a scene. Unfortunately for the guy he had thrown most of it in the bin already and the cleaning lady had just emptied all bins in the trash container outside. He was subsequently ordered to dig our papers out of the dumpster and we were assigned another broker. :devil2:

I would not recommend this approach to anyone unless you are confident it is safe to do so, but in these rare instances justice tastes extremely sweet.

eurasiaoverland 24 Nov 2016 14:00

Dealing with officials who are purely on the take is one thing, and there are some good tips above.

But let's make sure none of us is the 'sleazy' foreigner who thinks they can get away with breaking the local laws and not suffer any penalty (official or unofficial).

Much of the corruption I have seen in Eastern Europe for example relates to speeding or other traffic infractions. For some reason, foreigners tend to take the moral high ground when they have been caught breaking the law and find a cop asks for a payoff to make some money himself and save you going to the local police station or court.

Fernandolx 25 Nov 2016 15:01

One basic thing, is to have a small amount of money in your wallet. So when you open it, the guy sees that your short and probably doesn't want to lose time arguing for a small amount.

ozranger 27 Nov 2016 14:35

All great advice.
Good to have a few tricks up your sleeve as there is no tricks that will work in every situation. Most I have ever had to pay as a bribe was $10 because I decided to ride through Kinshasa and forgot my passport. survived 9 road blocks with simple, I don't understand.. no parle francais... but the last guy was determined and on Friday afternoon he needed beer money. he started with demanding $200 bucks which I just laughed it off and eventually gave in when he started hitting my bike with his baton but still negotiated it down to $10:rofl:
I rode from ghana to South Africa and paid three bribes, never for breaking the law simply because there was no other way out of the situation. I avoid them at all costs as you are perpetuating the situation. if you break the law, pay the fine and get the receipt or better to pay at a police station if that's an option.
My strategies include:
  • Don't speak the language/don't understand
  • my gift/cadau is my smile
  • wait them out
  • ask them if they have a gift for me
  • say I'm a poor student, that's why I can't afford to fly so I have to ride a motorcycle
  • Have a little purse in my pocket with a few bucks in there in very small change
  • at road block ask directions, keep asking questions say thanks and ride off.
  • Follow the cop around asking why I can't leave so he can't receive bribes from other motorists eventually it has cost him too much so he wants you gone.
I always tended to have cops/soldiers say they are we are friends now you should give me something, my response is well if we are friends then can you give me something. this usually results in the cop bursting out in laughter at this preposterous proposition and then he waves you one.

I tend to find 95% of the cops just try their luck, and if you smile are Curtius and friendly decline they just wave you on.

Note: NEVER say that what he is saying is ridiculous or something similar as he may take it as your saying he is ridiculous and be very offended and angry

jordan325ic 4 Dec 2016 04:12

This is a topic that is near and dear to my heart. I've hear foreigners say "oh it's just $20". The average annual salary is a few hundred dollars in some places in Central Africa. It's like handing somebody several weeks salary to save yourself a few minutes. It destabalizes the local economy and creates dependance for the few on a source of money that is directly opposed to economic growth for the whole. Yea, maybe you get that guy a few drinks, meanwhile the community as a whole slowly dies of cleptocracy. And even if you don't care about the locals, you spread the image of the foreigner as stupid and incredibly rich. As a foreign traveller this is inconvenient for me because it wastes my time. But if I were a foreign investor this is more than an inconvenience, it's a deal breaker.

Three years, Africa north-to-south. central America, South America, Eastern Europe. Lord, in DR Congo I was stopped for bribe money ten times per day. Never, ever paid a bribe. I don't do the "don't understand" thing. Leaves too much hope, takes too much time. I start strong, explaining that I have never and will never give them money, then quickly go friendly and get to know them and let them know myself. What villages I've been through, some words of local language, the food, the music, etc... This has always worked for me. But really I think confidence is more important than anything. The police can read people very well, they can see it in my eyes that it's a waste of time. Plus, I normally look ragged and inexplicable. I have had my motorcycle impounded once, I have had a document or two held overnight, but this is extremely rare.

If I truly did something wrong I refuse to pay in the street, I will happily pay a printed fine, at the police station, with witnesses, with receipt. I very rarely break the law but when I do it's too much work for them to go through the official channel, so I end up not paying anything anyway.

Mark hadley 7 Dec 2016 20:17

At borders it is most useful to know what the charges should be. I feel vulnerable when told there is $50 to exit. Maybe it's true maybe not.
This forum is most helpful in this respect.

chris 8 Dec 2016 00:45

The few times I actually stopped (usually I looked the other way and didn't "see them"/ hid behind a larger vehicle/ rode in the ditch etc) for the uniformed types on my recent trip to South America I found "no fumar espanol" combined with looking like a demented weirdo (pointing at the sky open mouthed is a good technique :innocent: ) was useful. As someone said before: It's a game and part of the cultural experience that a package tourist will never encounter.

Once in Kazakhstan I did make a big show of talking loudly on my cell phone (battery was dead...) claiming I was calling my mate the Rolls Royce franchise owner who was a mate of the chief of police in Almaty about his corruption. I also called him a fat pig and that he should get some exercise. Luckily English wasn't taught at Kazakh schools when he was a (fat) child...

Only ever showing (good quality) colour copies of all documents is also a good idea, should they wish to keep hold of them until you pay the "fine". If they need to see your passport, it's at the Farawayistan Embassy getting a visa issued. Give them a photocopy as a sign of "goodwill".

If you genuinely have done something wrong, other options like not taking the p!ss might be more appropriate!

caminito 8 Dec 2016 16:50

I agree with eurasiaoverland and Tony, treating a policeman or Gendarme as an idiot will not get you too far; specially if you did something wrong.

Jingoistic attitudes of British Empire may delay you for days, or have your bike impounded if the cop is in a bad mood, and there is no one, ever, that has their bike or car, or personal papers in perfect legal order, so if the Cop looks for a while he will find or invent something to further screw you.
Escaping from a police stop is stupid, generally cops are bored and want to chat or look at your bike. They only need to radio ahead, and being a foreigner you are easy to single out.
Personally I always ask for "help" directions or something (with a smile or look of relief) as soon as I come to a stop...seems to put cops into their more social mode

chris 8 Dec 2016 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by caminito (Post 552547)

....Jingoistic attitudes of British Empire....

....Escaping from a police stop is stupid....

Quote 1: Clearly you were't referring to me with your comments, considering I'm only 1/4 British and 3/4 other European nationalities. Where are you from, by the way? Can't see from your profile.

Quote 2: Imagine you ride up behind a line of stationary cars who have been stopped at a checkpoint. You have 2 choices: Wait in line for your turn to be spoken to, or ride slowly down the inside (hard shoulder/ditch) and without "seeing" the uniformed person (and if there's a nice big truck in the way, them not seeing you either) continue on your way... Some choose the former, others the later. I've done the later for the past 20 years. So far, so good.

GSPeter 9 Dec 2016 08:34

Paying Bribes
 
Hi all, the OP was worried about being stopped by officials looking for a handout. This happens all over, as one said, it's a part of independant travel. There has been some good advice, and no situation is going to be the same, so you have to read the circumstances.

I think there are four catagories.

First is the random stop, because they see you and try their luck. They don't like timewasters, if you are friendly you can usually be on your way without too much hassle.

Second is "breaking the law", pulling you over for a minor traffic violation. If you did it or not is hardly relevant, but then this may be is a good time to negotiate, or you can insist on driving to a policestation with all the hassle you will get there.

Third I think would be the spurious fees at a border, this is usually well organised, and "they" hold the high cards. They can just refuse to let you in, or out, and you are stuck.

Fourth would be the checkpoint. Driving to the front of the queue on a bike is normal, but they are really on the lookout for "weasels" who try to sneak through. Not seeing the soldiers/police or pretending you have been checked can have serious consequences. They carry guns, and are allowed to use them. This is definatly not a good idea. Locals often have to pay for not having their stuff searched and thrown about. I have met overlanders in cars and trucks who had all their gear searched and stuff stolen, but on a bike I have been lucky.

I suppose the best advice is to keep a low profile and use your finely honed human relations skills to ascess the situation. Some you win, and some you loose.

Safe travel

Peter, in Oslo

schmookeeg 12 Dec 2016 17:21

RE: Tricks for not paying sleazy officials?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GSPeter (Post 552592)

Third I think would be the spurious fees at a border, this is usually well organised, and "they" hold the high cards. They can just refuse to let you in, or out, and you are stuck.

Thanks all, the different approaches here have been helpful. Here is my score so far:

64 fiches passed out, so 64 stops -- 61 uneventful.

1 -- At a normal roadblock checkpoint, was asked to step out of the car just south of Al-Ayouun, and invited into the guard shack for a "chat" -- 2 guards inside were all smiles, handshakes, and friendliness before asking me if I had any rum, whiskey, or beer in the car. My offer of "choix de lait or l'eau" was not appreciated, and I was sent on my way. Wasted 10 minutes.

2 -- At a checkpoint south of El Jedidah, a gendarme was very very interested in a "cadeau de poste" -- the more he asked, the worse my french got. When he helpfully suggested that he accepted sunglasses, perfume, or cash, I switched to english entirely and frustrated him -- until I was sent on my way. Wasted 5 minutes.

3 -- At a checkpoint just before the "shortcut" to Diama, a guard took my fiche, read it thoroughly, then placed it on my car's window sill and asked me for a "bic" -- when I didn't understand, he asked for a stylo. I had a pen handy and figured he wanted to make a note of something -- so I handed it over, and the cheeky bugger just walked off with it. Luckily it was a janky hotel pen, and the surprise and story are worth more than the "loss". :D

==

My border tactics have been mixed. I've been going with the "I need an official receipt" route, since it removes me from direct confrontation -- let's face it, the "they hold all of the high cards" concept is dead-on, and I have ZERO official sources to reference on these junk fees, so I just do my best.

One of the immigration clowns in Diama has some ancient receipt book and happily tore me out 4000oug worth of useless receipt, and wrote a mini-novella in my passport that I can't decipher. Sigh. The trick otherwise got me out of 20EUR of BS on two other occasions for less-prepared scamsters. I wish I had a few more tricks

So overall, the score is decent and I am way under my "nonsense budget" limit. We are switching our route and thinking of doing the Gambia, which as US travellers, subjects us to all manner of potential headache over and above the $160 apiece visa. :D

Cheers all & thanks again!

- Mike

Evergreen 6 Jan 2017 21:22

Start unpacking your camping gear!

Most officials give up as soon as they realize you have time to argue or just smile helplessly ad infinitum.

grumpy geezer 6 Jan 2017 22:02

I usually smiled, said - in my worst local language, hard for the locals to understand - how I liked their country, their food, and then tried to sit at their desk and look like I had all day. I usually had more time than money, so it wasn't a act. I just slouched down on the chair and smiled like an idiot. Most of the English speakers I encountered seemed more interested in practicing their English than anything else. I never offered a bribe or paid a bribe-that did not seem like a safe thing to do.

Tony LEE 6 Jan 2017 22:46

Copies of these might also help

https://lm.facebook.com/l.php?u=http...=_AQFS454c&s=1

caminito 7 Jan 2017 02:53

Tony: the forms for argentina are corrupted, ( don't read well) or the spanish is not proper castilian and obviously NOT government forms, IMHO any cop will realize they are bull. Still :eek3:I'm curious if you actually used them and what was the effect they had..

ta-rider 7 Jan 2017 10:17

Hi,

You cant carry enough candy for all the thieves in Uniform out there haha but what i have learned and told my self was:
- Don't ride the biggest BMW and don't look fancy. I always told them my friends are waiting in the next city and i just have enough petrol money to reach it.
- Enjoy the time in the climate controlled police station. Take out your book and make your self comfortable at the chief officers seat. Pretend you have time and like it there then they trough you out.
- Ask them if you can sleep there because you cant afford a hotel.
- Don't understand what they say
- Take them by their nationality and say you write a blog and people in the neighbor country have been soooo friendly and ask if all people in his country are thieves.
- As soon as you stop ask were the next petrol station is. If he points forward say thanks and off you go.
- Just wave back or pretend not to see them and drive on if they wave to stop you. Most of them don't carry guns and only 1 out of 1000 times they came after me with their car and then escorted me to the next petrol station

Sometimes its also a good thing just to pay as describet here: http://afrikamotorrad.de/?report=en_faq

rendra-hertiadhi 7 Jan 2017 10:49

Hi

When traveling from Kuala Lumpur to Thailand, at the border check point locals told me to put 1 malaysian dollar in my passport, otherwise life would be a hassle. At first I thought why should I do it and assumed that it is only for the locals.

Then it was my turn to present myself before the immigration guy, and he started looking at me head to toe while his hands were busy turning the pages. I was just waiting with a grin, until he finally said "one dollar" with a staring eyes. Ow man, this one dollar practice is for everyone crossing the border! Bad luck for methat I don't have a one dollar malaysian note, so I finally have to gave him a 2-dollar note instead. After that, the official stamped my passport and returned it to me saying "welcome to Thailand" with a fresh big smile.

Lesson learned is to check with the locals. We're traveling for fun, and when a $0.35 could make our life in such a difficult situation, I'd rather pay.

This story happened at the Malaysia - Thailand border of Wang Kelian. A very busy border with thousands of people passing through every day while donating 1 malaysian dollar to the Thai immigration officials. They will be able to afford a brand new GS every week :scooter:

Alan31 2 Feb 2017 19:24

The easiest way is to not visit such countries. Second easiest is to always have local friends / riding buddies.

If neither are an option, being extremely friendly and talking in their "values" helps a lot. For example, in plenty of corrupt places the concept of family is very important, so you can talk about visiting some cousin of yours.

Whenever they ask for a bribe or whatever, simply assume they're offering you something instead, and very enthusiastically thank them for the offer but decline. Then go talk on and on about the nature, your trip, your interactions with locals, how you tried some dishes and loved them and so on.

Doesn't work always, but it's both great fun to do, and it has a really nice success rate.

*Touring Ted* 3 Feb 2017 19:51

Me and a friend got pulled over by the cops in Malawi whilst on the highway.

We'd already been caught/scammed/fined the day before because we were riding around town without all our documents on us. And that's a crime..(It actually is) Fair cop.. Probably.

This time I got off my bike and while the cop gestured the international sign for money with his fingers I fell down and pretended to be unwell. My riding partner waved his hands and shouted "Malaria, Hospital... Malaria, hospital"

The cops immediately waved us on not wanted a dead tourist on his hands..

That worked twice.. :thumbup1:

jonnodubai 6 Feb 2017 15:45

i guess its well covered in the above, i traveled from Dubai to Capetown (via Yemen) and saw it as a personal challenge not to pay and i dident pay anyone in that trip ! with lots of banter, smiles and wasting their time i managed to evade the numerous attempts to extract money from me and the biggest challenge was always near the borders !

i agree with all above that giving money is only encouraging them although i think that if the pressure was really on i most probably would have capitulated and paid something !

best laugh i had was when in Zambia the uniformed requests for condoms was equal to those for money !!

difficult to explain to my partner next time Im off to Africa why i need a sackfull of condoms !!!!

*Touring Ted* 16 Feb 2017 08:31

Sadly, for every traveller who tries hard not to encourage bad cops by fighting fines; there are ten more in fancy land rovers and new GS's who carry a pocket full of cash to throw left and right at anyone who asks. Because they can afford not to be held up for 20 minutes.

I've met them... Nothing gets in the way of their cold Gin and Tonic in the next city.

So in some countries, it becomes an actual living for corrupt cops and turns good cops, bad !! Because they're poor and see it as an easy way to feed their families.

So if you're one of those people who carry's a special wallet full of dollars to pay bribes then you're "An Enemy of the people", as the Daily Mail would say :thumbdown:

There's paying a genuine fine and then there's ruining it for everyone else....

Tomkat 16 Feb 2017 10:07

In some countries police corruption is a way of life and you're not going to stop it happening by refusing to pay. They already make a good living from scamming the locals, and the locals are going to be better at arguing back than you are. Some may decide you're more work than you're worth but equally you may get one who decides he's going to make life hard for you.

On the road the usual scam is to say you've been speeding or crossed a white line and then it's your word against theirs. Your best bet then is to try and bargain them down. Just haggle. Carry a dummy wallet with a little cash (as much as you can afford to lose, but not ridiculously little or they'll smell a rat). Remember they can use Google Translate and some may insist on accompanying you to an ATM if in town (or taking you there minus bike!). Do not hand over passports or driving licence, if they have originals they have you over a barrel. Get several laminated copies made - translated copies can be useful stamped by a lawyer, and freely photocopied! If they say these aren't originals say you're waiting for a visa or something and that's what the visa office gave you (OK maybe not at a border!). Laminated licences won't be queried. Then if need be you can walk away from the copies promising to return with cash.

If you try too hard to get away free sooner or later somebody is going to push back. Be the dumb tourist who's got barely enough money to get the the next petrol stop. A little grease can oil squeaky wheels.

chris 16 Feb 2017 10:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Des Senior (Post 557601)
In some countries police corruption is a way of life and you're not going to stop it happening by refusing to pay.

Interesting to note you're based in Kazakhstan. The only country I've encountered bent police.

Here's a picture at a Kazakh traffic checkpoint in 2012. Can anyone spot the corrupt copper? We all sat it out with him and his sidekicks (in background). No "fine" was paid...

http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/p...psf0724876.jpg

Overland Tonka 24 Feb 2017 10:37

A few from me..
Never speak the local language.
I have crept to the side of big trucks and snuck through with my Toyota at road blocks.
Most of the time i drive through at remote places..they are so busy on their phones they only look up at the last minute.
Even if they speak English i still look like i don't understand them.
One guy caught me out though..had a bit of a chat..he seemed ok, but then asked for a gift...
"Ok, my gift is my song" and i then started singing to him very loudly..i was waved on immediately!!!

Tomkat 28 Feb 2017 02:44

Travelling in a group you're less likely to be seen as a mobile cash dispenser I suspect. And I didn't say they were all corrupt.

brendanhall 9 May 2017 14:17

shame them if you can or...
 
Sometimes when you think its endemic you find sites like this:

I Paid A Bribe | About us


and you smile knowing that they are now in a public forum for all to see!

Spooka 15 May 2017 08:52

I had a little bit to say about this in my article on Brake Magazine:
http://www.brake-magazine.com/ten-ti...elling-africa/


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk

ilesmark 15 May 2017 14:00

I really enjoyed reading this thread and agree with most of what's been posted, esp the mentions of 'always be polite'. I can add my own 2-penn'oth to that: take your sunglasses off when dealing with officials. There's something subconsciously irritating and distant about someone evading eye contact with you.

Most of the time, the only time being pressured for a bribe is an issue is when you've actually done something wrong. On my 2007-08 trip, in 1 of the areas where you'd most expect corruption - the Indian subcontinent - the only time I got busted was for genuinely speeding, in Islamabad. I'd seen the PC raising his hand for me to stop, but he'd only done it when I was so near him I assumed it was for someone behind me so I didn't stop. Then he came after me and flagged me down and I felt bad, as he said "I thought people from your country were honest". But I explained the above and he gave me a 200PKR (less than £2) ticket, apologising "for the inconvenience" and even offering to pay the cash into the police station for me. I can hear anyone reading this saying "didn't you realise that was a bribe?" but it was a very official-looking individually numbered ticket he gave me, followed by a receipt for the 200PKR!

Later in my trip - the roads in Russia (and Kazakhstan) were infested with rapacious traffic police, seeking to extort money from drivers. I was stopped daily for 'documenty inspekty' but 6 times I was stopped legitimately for speeding/overtaking; twice they just wanted to give me words of advice, but 4 times they wanted to bust me and couldn't because I couldn't speak Russian and kept saying "sorry" over and over in English - HA! But it depends on luck too - once in Kaz I came across 2 bikers (1 UK, 1 German) who definitely didn't speak Russian, but that hadn't stopped them getting a speeding fine (which was the only reason I got to speak to them at all; they were stopped by the roadside getting booked when I saw them)

A little bit OT, but make sure you don't fall foul of the registration rules relating to visa registration if you're overlanding through Russia. When I was there you had to go to the local PVU/OVIR to register if you stayed in 1 place for more than 3 working days but it may be longer now.

The police/PVU/OVIR aren't used to people sleeping in their own vehicles rather than staying in hotels, so they can take a bit of convincing. In practice this means keeping receipts from all shops, filling stations etc to prove that you haven't stopped anywhere long enough to need your visa registered. And if you DO stop anywhere for 3 working days or longer, make sure you get your visa registered and keep the receipt (spravka) for this as well. On my 2nd time in Russia, I kept receipts right from the start AND registered my visa properly on entry with a stamp on my immigation card. While in Moscow, I was near Red Square with a German when we both got stopped by the tourist police. I was able to prove with my wad of receipts that I hadn't been in Moscow (or indeed any other part of Russia) for long enough to need to register my visa anywhere; the German didn't have any proof and had to pay a 500 rouble bribe. He wasn't happy at all and I don't blame him, for back at the place we were staying he DID have proof but had let on to the police that he was catching a train out of Moscow that evening. So they had said 'well if you want we'll take you back to where you're staying to have a look, but you wouldn't want to miss your train, would you?', even shaking hands with him at the end as if they'd done him a favour.

THAT to me qualifies as sleazy.

jordan325ic 16 May 2017 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilesmark (Post 563484)
A little bit OT, but make sure you don't fall foul of the registration rules relating to visa registration if you're overlanding through Russia. When I was there you had to go to the local PVU/OVIR to register if you stayed in 1 place for more than 3 working days but it may be longer now.

Just so we don't scare anyone away from Russia, things have changed since 2007: This is no longer enforced and hasn't been for several years. I never registered anywhere in Russia while travelling and never had a problem, at borders or anywhere, nor did any of the many travelers I met. On separate occasions I had problems with local police, immigration police and the military, with full document checks, so if it were a problem I would know about it. Also, police corruption is far less of an issue now and no bribes were ever asked.

chris 16 May 2017 18:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by jordan325ic (Post 563585)
Just so we don't scare anyone away from Russia, things have changed since 2007: This is no longer enforced and hasn't been for several years. I never registered anywhere in Russia while travelling and never had a problem, at borders or anywhere, nor did any of the many travelers I met. On separate occasions I had problems with local police, immigration police and the military, with full document checks, so if it were a problem I would know about it. Also, police corruption is far less of an issue now and no bribes were ever asked.

I agree. In 2013 I rode from Irkutsk to Magadan (via the BAM) without a license plate, nor working rear turn signals (on borrowed bike = not in my name) and was never stopped (in fact didn't see any police until Magadan: hotel was opposite the cop shop) for any paperwork check or whatever. Also didn't register anywhere with anyone.

The only place where I've travelled in recent times (Central Asia, Mongolia, Far East Russia, South America, Mexico and Europe) where I felt dodgy uniformed types exist was eastern Kazakhstan where the problem was endemic.

Mawsley 12 Jun 2017 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris (Post 552519)
... on my recent trip to South America I found "no fumar espanol" combined with looking like a demented weirdo (pointing at the sky open mouthed is a good technique :innocent: ) was useful.

Si, (reads from card), yo no como espagnoil tampoocoo. Law sientah senyur. :innocent:


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