Pakistan-Balochistan
 

This is bad news. My current plans are to pass through there in about 4 months’ time.

This could be a game changer. I sincerely hope not though .. :confused2:

Needless to say, my condolences and thoughts go out to the families and friends of those killed and injured. They were, of course, just doing their job of escorting and 'protecting' a western overlander - free of charge.

This incident does, however, raise questions about 'responsibilities' (on both sides of the equation!)
.
My condolences the families and friends of those killed. They were just doing their job of course .. ‘protecting’ a western overlander. This raises a question or two about ‘responsibilities’ (on both sides of the equation!)

:eek3:

Why? It is not the first incident there, recently.

Why not another route through this area? Why through Balochistan?

Surfy

If you know better routes, I'm sure many would like to know what they are.

Thank you for responding.

Going south from Lahore around the bottom of Afghanistan is my second choice. I really wanted to go north via the KKH and then west through the Stans, but I fear I will get there too early in the season and find that the road is still closed. This northern route isn’t totally safe either of course. Besides, as you probably already know, going through the China section of the KKH is an expensive business, especially when you are not part of a group. It may be too late to organise this now in any case

Riding down to Multan-Sukkur-Sibi to Quetta and the Taftan / Iranian border, therefore, has become my alternative plan. I have been reliably informed, despite other recent chilling events, that it really will not be too much of a problem. Clearly there's some naivety going on here - on my part especially.

After yesterday's tragic incident at Mastung, how must that young Spaniard be feeling right now? At least six deaths, plus casualties have occurred, all members of his Pakistani band of escorts. With this in mind, I now cannot simply turn-up in that region, all wide-eyed - and no doubt unwanted - and ask more young men to put their lives at risk, just to self-satisfy my artless travelling ego? Under the circumstances, I do not think the Quetta-Taftan route can be an option for me now.

So what are the alternatives?

I am considering:

• Going down the eastern side of Pakistan from Lahore; well away from Afghanistan and Taliban territory. Then turn west and ride along the Makran Coastal Hwy and try to cross into Iran via the Mand-Pishin border, which is supposed to be opening-up according to a recent news article. If possible, this should be a safer crossing, compared to Taftan.

• Attempt to ship, air-freight ideally, from Karachi to somewhere well over and away from the Pak-Iran border; like into the UAE or Oman - and then ferry up from Dubai and enter Iran through the seaport of Bandar Abbas.

• Worst case scenario: whimp-out and forget Pakistan altogether; instead air-freight from somewhere inside India (say Mumbai) to some other airport west of Pakistan.

But I really do not want to skip Pakistan if I can help it, nor Iran for that matter.

Got some more suggestions / ideas.. anyone?
:confused1:

Cheers

Keith

China
 

Hi Keith

We crossed Pak in 2011 and did the KKH to avoid the dodgy western provinces. When we left Oz heading for UK we hadn't finalised our route. We organised the China leg while on the road. Don't let the rumours cloud your judgement. Speak to the agents in China and get a quote. Our 6 day transit was approx. $2500 inc hotels, guide, driver for guide etc. Sure, more expensive than 'normal' overlanding but what price would you put on the dreadful experience that just happened.
It's not like the KKH is a hardship, yes it costs a bit more but the scenery is brilliant, the people lovely and the overall experience was the highlight of or 15,000 mile trip

Best of luck mate, have fun

Interesting reading... Quite a lot of scary stories at the moment..
While I'm positive that the "locals are friendly" there seem to be a lot of external influences.

"Going down the eastern side of Pakistan from Lahore; well away from Afghanistan and Taliban territory. Then turn west and ride along the Makran Coastal Hwy and try to cross into Iran via the Mand-Pishin border, which is supposed to be opening-up according to a recent news article. If possible, this should be a safer crossing, compared to Taftan. "

At least back in -07 when I went through there, the main road (Taftan-Dalbandin-Quetta) was actually considered to be the safest route, or the only one where the government has some sort of hold. Permits would have been required for the Makran coast route, and it was devastated by floods (or so I read, didn't go there myself).

It could be an option to research, but at least up until now, very few Westerners have gone that way (and unless it's changed just recently, you'd still need to cross at Taftan/Mir Javeh).

Keith when we arranged the China leg they told is they needed 3 months to arrange it, but, our friend Karwan joined our bunch with way less lead time, maybe a month. You may be able to work into a group going north. What month were you planning to go?

$2500 sounds about right without a group for china but it's way less in a group. More fun too doing the KKH & the china bureaucratic shuffle in convoy. Plus Kyrgyzstan is just fantastic.

Do reach out to MAP, motorcyclist Assn of Pakistan. Great bunch of riders & they have a FB page. They can advise about seasons, road conditions, crossing lake Attabad...

Depending on the timing are you riding Ladakh? Or you could kill time in Rajasthan...;)

Oh come to think about it, air freight from Lahore I think is an option. One of our group sent his bike from there. Not sure he is reachable at the moment but holler if you want me to try.

Xxoo good luck!

Si

Hiya Si - thanks for your input.

Yes, after some additional research my preferred route is definitely north through China to the Stans beyond. Trouble is, with the allotted time I have set aside, I’m likely to arrive at the start of the KKH (say Chilās) by around the second week in May.

The road is supposed to 'officially' open for business on May-1st, which at first view seems like perfect timing .. BUT obviously the prevailing conditions at that time will dictate whether or not the route is actually passable. There can be no guarantees that early in the season of course.

Here are a couple of pictures taken by fellow travellers around Kyrgyzstan during mid-late June last year:

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-K...-KT37LXV-M.jpg
Irkeshtam Pass

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-K...-KW3H5gT-M.jpg
Dolina Pass

Arriving in the region a whole month earlier than mid-June might result in a hold-up simply waiting for the conditions to improve. As I will be constrained to a fairly strict time budget (as usual!), any serious delay will be an issue.

In short, if I want to go north, then to play safe I should probably think about pushing back my start date by at least a month, or maybe even two. This in itself will cause headaches, as there are time limits on (a) my carnet, in Nepal, (b) my already arranged Indian visa, plus (c) work commitments etc. Besides, the plane tickets back to KTM are already booked and paid for. Nothing that can’t be fixed with money (and time) I guess .. of which I have limited supplies!

Verdict: 'play even safer' and go south this time around; it’ll be hotter than hell at that time of year, but at least I'll be able to keep on the move ..

.. then last week's dreadful incident occurred, which has thrown a seriously large spanner in the works!

Mehmet is coming-up with some suggestions - and we're PM'ing each other. He's already given the heads-up to the members of MAP who are also on the case.

It'll all work out, I'm sure Si .. quite literally, one way or the other.

Thanks again [and congratulations!! ... :thumbup1:]

K&E

If one of the Southern border crossings opens up I am thinking of seeing if I use it to stay as far sough as I can. then maybe get on the Thar express (with bike) and get into India that way!

pishin, nasirabad, turbatormara, hingol national park, winder, karachi

The Thar express leaves from Karachi will cross the border at point Zero and munanao, then on to Jodhpur.

Any one got some thoughts on this!

Also If you have a sat phone as emergency communication, you can be arrested in India, as they require a special license for them!

The other possibility is to use the Iranian port of Bandar Abbas and get passage with your bike to Mumbai!

Any and all feed back would be appreciated!

Hello,

today in the spanish newspaper El Pais is an articel what really happend to the spanish biker.The guy filmed everything.
El ciclista atacado en Pakistán asegura que los polícias muertos no lo escoltaban | Política | EL PAÍS

Mike

The video is... shocking...

Hello,

yes the video is shocking,but it give us a good idea about the situation there.And the guy was realy lucky that he was traveling by car and not by motorbike.Because in the case he would be dead.

Mike

Sorry to disappoint you but the Taftan-MirJavah is the only working border between Iran and Pakistan for foreigners. All others are for the locals and even I cant cross it being a resident of Lahore.


Omar

Hi Omie

Just out of interest, what is your view on the reality of Mand - Pishin opening?

I drove the MCH in 2008, amazing place, but no sign of a working border crossing. Is Gwadar still idle?

Hi Dan,
Although I have been hearing a lot about opening of new borders with neighboring countries nothing has materialized for decades. A few borders like 3 in Kashmir and (probably 2) in Balochistan have been opened for the locals to cross into the first city with permission of local authorities but even they cant go any further.
One day when all the stupid wars going on stop, all these will open, I hope within my lifetime.

Cheers
Omar

Iran / Pakistan border crossings
 

Any thoughts on traveling with a child? The southern crossings seems safer as further away from the tribal areas!

Forget the 'southern crossings'. It's Taftan, China or flying.

Northern Baluchistan has become very unstable recently. Travelling with a child would be highly irresponsible.

Any new info about the southern border crossings between Iran and Pakistan? Still closed to foreigners?

Im in katmandhu now heading that way in month or two, And I met a spanish guy here on a Super Ten that rode through there on his way here, maybe 3 weeks ago he said it was fine. One police escort took him 1000km futher than the direct route because of safety reasons but other than that all good. if that helps lol

This is the taftan border, the southern route is not open.

Hi ShaneBaby, would you have the name of that Spaniard by chance? Maybe he uses HU as well and we can contact him.

Thanks :)

Woops just seen this and yeah sure his name is Joan Carles Campobadal his written english is not so hot but better than my spanish ofcourse

Latest Pakistan safety information
 

Has anyone got the latest safety information regarding the route:

Teftan, Dalbandin, Quetta, Sukkur, Multan, Lahore.

We are planning to ride through there in September this year.

I'll be there in about a month - so I'm hoping its ok. I'll feed back when I return (early July).

Feedback on other threads suggest the route and the safety situation haven't changed for many years. The advice is always stick to what the police tell you to do (ie, don't go wondering off) and you will be ok.

What I've not been able to pick up so far is how much sight seeing is possible with the police escort, sights such as Mohenjo-Daro and Uch Sharif are on the route, would be a shame to pass by without seeing them.

Dave

@Dave

1-I guess better to get in touch with MAP assoc. friends in Lahore.They organise several charity or promotion to tourism development rides each month to different parts of the country..If lucky,may be one available to that destination.
They have always been very helpful to all travellers passing by..
Password to open doors is selamünaleyküm!!!
https://www.facebook.com/groups/MAPakistan/

Otherwise 2 options left between multan and taftan, camping at a levis station or staying at the hotel you will be taken to by the slow escort guys.

2-To travel between lahore and quetta, NOC. certificate must be taken, available and free at both cities but takes almost a day to get..same permission sometimes needed for KKH.

You will love Pakistan most..Just obey the escort rules...

All the best for a great trip..

Stopping to sightsee with escorts
 

What I've not been able to pick up so far is how much sight seeing is possible with the police escort, sights such as Mohenjo-Daro and Uch Sharif are on the route, would be a shame to pass by without seeing them.

Hi Dave -to be as blunt as possible - NO WAY.

They are ordered to escort you to prevent you being killed or hostaged by some serious badmashes. They want you off their patch as quick as possible, in one piece.

They always say "next escort" if you want to eat or drink, toalet or fuel. Their safety is keeping you moving as fast as possible. The thought of you wandering around a historic site is for them a nightmare situation.

There is also the danger of sloppy weapons handling - a real threat in my opinion. Negligent discharges pretty often.

They do find a hotel for you if you dont have one lined up.

Necessary evil if you get an escort, some days they do, some days they dont. Depends on the local situation.

Safe travels

Peter, in Oslo

Riding through Pakistan
 

Hi Dave,
No rider can afford to miss the 5000 yrs old ruins of Moenjodaro or spotting the blind dolphins in Indus coming from Quetta.
Situation close to the Afghan border in Balochistan is fluid although public transport regularly plies on this route.
I would suggest,
1. Reach Quetta with escorts.
2. You should be fine once you reach N-5 at Sukkur and escorts should leave. Their system is not very efficient and many times they bring travelers till Lahore which is absolutely unnecessary. I would suggest if police tells you that they will escort you all the way to Lahore opt for a train from Quetta till Sukkur. Get off and visit Moenjodaro which is hardly 100 kms from Sukkur. Uch Shariff, Bahawalpur and Multan are on the way to Lahore. This 800kms ride on decent divided road should be nice although summers are scorching hot.
3. Stay in touch with MAP (Motorcyclists Assoc of Pak) and you should be fine. If you inform me about your FB identity i will include you on MAPs FB page.

Wishing you a great tour.
Cheers
Omar

I would advise heading down to Karachi from Quetta. I can't imagine that the escorts would bother you in Karachi. Plus it's a vibrant city and deserves a few days in my opinion.

Then you can begin a proper transit along the real axis of Pakistan; the Indus River. There are innumerable attractions in Sindh (not least the people), Moenjodaro, Bhit Shah, Sehwan Sharif and Ranikot Fort are among the most obvious. It's really a shame that people miss this province due to travel advice which is two decades out of date.

EO

Hi Dave,

Would love to hear your experience in Pakistan. Let us know if you managed to visit those sites.

Channey

So sad to see all these issues ... when I crossed in 2006, I was intercepted by the Iranian police in Zahedan, brought to the border and released into Pakistan. It was only after Quetta that I saw any escorts, and not even all the way to Peshawar (via DI Kham and DG Kham). That was the last escort before the KKH. Peshawar was considered safe back then...


Pakistan is one of the placed I loved most, for the people, for the wild nature, just stunning ...


I really hope things settle down there...

crossing Iran-Pakistan-India to the east
 

Hi fellas,

heading east (on our motorbikes) from Germany next year.

As we want to spend as little as possible (and China route with a guide etc sounds expensive), the idea was
to cross Turkey, Iran, and Pakistan and continue to India and onwards.

Balochistan area is notorious for being unstable for a long time now, so although our idea looks good on the map - going to south eastern Iran and continuing to south-west Pakistan alongside the coast - is it in fact reasonable?

Any latest news on the subject? Does this route sound feasable at all?

Since we intend to deal with visas as we apporach each border, we'd be in a big trouble if we had to change the route and head back to Iran, cross the Stans and somehow organize all the paperwork for China while on the road.

Or better plan the (our) second option ...-Turkey-Iran-Stans-China-Laos-... from here?!

So it seems it's best to get some reliable info and tips on this bit rather than to improvize (for THIS part of our rtw).

Thanks for your comments!

Marc

Latest information on Pakistan - Balochistan region
 

We rode from Taftan to Multan two weeks ago. Once you cross the border into Taftan, you will go through Immigration, then they will lead you to the Police compound (called Leevies) where they will register you. Then they take you to the custom office to fill out your Carnet. Depending on what time it is. you will either stay in the Police compound for the night, or they will organize police escort to the next town - Dalbandin.

We had police escort all the way from Taftan to Dalbandin, Quetta, Sukkur, and Multan. The police escorts are slow - ranging from 40 kph via motorcycles to 80 kph via Toyota Hylux . There are lots of check points where you have to fill in passport details, and also lots of changeovers of police escorts.

You will be stuck in the hotels, and there is a police guard in the hotel 24 hours. You are not free to go outside without police escort.

We did not come across any sign of danger anywhere, but two days after we left Multan (supposed to be a safe city), there was a massive bomb blast near a bus terminal which killed 11 people, and injured 58. So you should stick to the police advise for safety. They are there to protect you.

In Quetta, you will stay at Bloom Star Hotel. You can't leave Quetta until you get a NOC from the Home Office. I think the office closes after 1 pm. Police Escort will take you there, and you can leave with police escort the day after you get the NOC. So make sure you don't arrive in Quetta after 1 pm on Friday, you will be stuck there for 3 days, and can't leave till Tuesday.

In Multan, we stayed with a local adventure biker who offered us accommodation and food for free. His name is Muhammad Iqbal Ghangla. If you have Facebook, try to connect with him. He lives in Multan. We had a great time with him. Pakistan people are extremely friendly to foreigners, and make extra effort to make us feel welcome. We decided to stay in Pakistan longer and visit the Karakorum highway.

So good to see the road is still open. But wow, those are a lot of police escorts!! I didn't see one for the first week I was in Pakistan, but that was 2006.... How times have changed. Is the KKH still open without police escorts? Have fun!

Yes, the KKH is open without police escorts, although there are a couple of points where they tried to force us to have an escort (on the way to Besham and when leaving Besham in the morning). We were able to get around this though because we don't have any spare seats in our four wheel drive!

Ha ha! How I know that conversation ... At one point in Iran, they dropped a guy off with a machine gun. His idea was to ride on the back. No dice as I had a pack on there and didn't want to take the load on the shock. So he pulls over a car, explains and motions for me to follow the car. At the next police check point, the car pulls off, drops the cop on the side and rumbles off into the desert, bypassing the police road block. I ask the cop what was going on and in a broad smile, he explained "the gentleman did not have his paperwork in order". So he flagged down the next car and off we went. It never got boring, that's for sure.

Be aware this is a scam of the hotel manager! The office on Friday will close at 16.30. He just wants you to stay as long as possible and get as much money out of overlanders' wallet. Don't trust this guy at all!

Last Friday I arrived at Bloomstar hotel at 11.20. I asked about the NOC, the hotel manager looked at the clock and tolled me the office will close at 12.00 and that I was too late. My 'motorcycle spiderman adventure trust senses' tolled me he was lying. After some painful discussion an escort to the NOC office was arranged and I got the NOC at 16.00 on a Friday. I asked people around and they all tolled me the office closes at 16.30.

Right now I'm having a couple days of rest in Sukkur and I will have two more days of escorts to Multan according to the police. But they also tolled me that I was going to be free after the border of Balochistan... Take enough water and food with you. You won't get a lot of breaks or food.

Hi everybody,

I will drive in Pakistan next two weeks the KKH. Anybody on this road at this time ? Will be great to meet some foreigns riders !

Otherwise, any advices, tips (hotel, warning) ?

Have a nice day !

Louis

I agree that the hotel manager is a untrustworthy. There are only a few quests staying there, all were foreigners taken in from Police Escort. I think there might be a deal done between the police and the manager.

The "city police" who escorted us to Home Office asked us for some " tips", which we paid. Along the way, we stopped at truck stops and had lunch with the police escort, which we also paid. We didn't mind as there were three of us to share the costs, and the leevies were gerneally nice people.

Recent story from BBC News......

Bomb near Pakistan polio centre 'kills 15' - BBC News

Hi ya all,

Is there anybody planning to be in Pakistan around August 2016? I would love to meet up and share the experience.

Cheers,

Nora

Hi Nora,
Welcome Nora. Thousands of MAPPERS (Motorcyclists Association of Pakistan) will be here along with millions of other bikers.
Feel free to call when around Pakistan, the world's best kept secret, and explore it for yourself.
Cheers
Omar