Lonely Planet Guide books
 

Though I use LP books alot. i only use them in a very loose sense, reading through the country info about banks currency, shop times etc. ocassionally looking for some idea's of things to do and see ( often this is done in the book shop at lunch time ;) I don't march around with my nose stuck in the book following the legion of travel sheep. As i think this spoils part of the "essence of travel" for me anyway. removing the random element which mkes travel so brillant.

and here's another reason why......


Lonely Planet writer says he made up part of books Sat Apr 12, 2008 10:29pm EDT
MELBOURNE (Reuters) - An author for the Lonely Planet travel guidebook series has claimed that he plagiarized and made up large sections of his books, an Australian newspaper reported on Sunday.
Author Thomas Kohnstamm told the Sunday Telegraph newspaper he had worked on more than a dozen books for Lonely Planet, including their titles on Brazil, Colombia, the Caribbean, South America, Venezuela and Chile.
The Lonely Planet guidebooks sell more than six million copies a year.
The Sunday Telegraph said Kohnstamm also claims in his new book "Do Travel Writers Go To Hell?" that he accepted free travel, contravening company policy.
He said in one case he had not even visited the country he wrote about.
"They didn't pay me enough to go to Colombia. I wrote the book in San Francisco. I got the information from a chick I was dating -- an intern at the Colombian consulate," the newspaper quoted Kohnstamm as saying.
Lonely Planet said it had reviewed Kohnstamm's guidebooks but had not found any inaccuracies in them, the Sunday Telegraph said.

That's pretty funny - the LP to Iran reads like someone did something on the same lines.

Talking to hoteliers in Guatemala I found similar things about the guide book author. The local guide book contact - the source for all detail to the region - was the owner of four hostels and various tourist initiatives. Guess which author got to eat and stay for free? Guess whose hotels were recommended in first, second, third and fourth places?

LP is a victim of its own popularity. There's a story about a street in Thailand where every hotel has the same name, after the original that was recommended in the LP. A whole street of Golden Palace hotels.

Information in Guide Books is invariably several years old (add together the time of research, writing, publishing, sitting on shelf). Once name-checked owners can confidently let standards fall. Trade is guaranteed, while they put their energies into something better.

In general I found it was best to head for the newest budget place in town - they are keen for your trade, they are pricing low, the plumbing hasn't failed yet, and the first enthusiastic flush of enterprise is still in bloom.

All that said, I found the Rough Guide to Pakistan absolutely brilliant. Mostly it depends on the author, rather than the brand.

Simon

I've stopped buying Lovely Planet guidebooks after finding several innacuracies in several books. I also find the writing irritatingly smug and self congratulatory. I mean, those little biogs at the start...shudder.

Matt :)

LP or FP
 

In my backpacking days in South America I travelled with a friend, he was carrying the LP of SA and I was carrying the Footprint. After a week or so we put away the LP because it was rubbish compared to the Footprint! Incomplete, incorrect, to heavy and of poor quality and there were too many " its dangerous, its ugly, its not worth going, don't go there, etc". We even met a couple of girls who were so fed up with the wrong info of the LP, that they were sending hate mails to them. Yes they are truly a victim of their own success and now seem to market the fat bellied American with striped trousers i.s.o. the adventurous young traveller.

Ever since I only buy the LP's if there's really nothing else available.

Cheers,

Noel
exploreafrica.web-log.nl

I used them for a long while. But as I travelled to more and more places I became annoyed at the inaccuracies. As new editions came out and I went back to a lot of the same countries I noticed that there seemed very little changes, a lot of whichever new edition seemed to be just cut and pasted from the previous one or two.

There also got to be more and more top end stuff mentioned that I couldn't afford (hotels, restaurants), even though the book stated it was "good value for money". Not for me it wasn't, too bloody expensive.

I also went off a lot of the style of writing and opinions, I thought it was me changing, obviously not.

A German biker named Stefan who I met in Sulawesi put it this way: "Things change, but the Lonely Liar doesn't"
All the bad places I went to in SEA was recommended in Lonely Planet and the great places was rarely mentioned.

LP sells there books by the tone, made for the genral public who wont go more than mile from there resort unless its on tour bus on there week stay. They pay authors to do wright ups on there trip because LP likes the way they wright not on the trip or facts.

LP once was written by a few travelers who really did camp and stay at the nasty little hotels and hostels while they backpack RTW. They were books made for the broke collage kids seeing the world now there made for the same people but there not broke or kids. LP never did wright ups on 5 star hotels now they stay in them more than not.

Riding and camping around the USA I used LP and Moon there books are good for pointing out the most obvious places and most of the towns. Dont use them to find a place to eat or stay. There info is out dated and wrong I used it once to find a camp ground said it was grate place, it was not its in a swamp they allow horses. A smelly swamp filled with RVs the size of my house, generators running, mozys, biting flies, screaming "rich" kids and there even less well behaved drunk parents. I left stayed a little campground on the beach.

Some are giving LP a brake by saying its from there success. I dont they are rakeing in cash for crap work been doing it for some time. LP is from Australia so it gose to reason there for the fat bellied Australia. LP was a grate idea gust like many others chased the cash. A money makeing publisher Lonely Planet | Travel guides, advice, tips and information

All that being said I have lots of LP and Moon books there a source of information that is foolish to ignore not the trusted or useful books once thought. More of an overview or a vacation review. That and I get them for $2 used :clap:.

Wow! A damning thread
 

I have never even opened the cover of a LP, preferring my own judgement based on reading a map, miscellaneous books from the library (occasionally), the internet and personal recommendations made to me.
In the latter I would include recommendations made on this website, until proven conclusively to be in error (everything changes with time).

And to think that the BBC bought LP a few months ago: for all that tour guide TV stuff I guess, or could it be because they are making money via the LP books?

He said in one case he had not even visited the country he wrote about.
"They didn't pay me enough to go to Colombia. I wrote the book in San Francisco. I got the information from a chick I was dating -- an intern at the Colombian consulate," the newspaper quoted Kohnstamm as saying.

I actually went to Colombia with this Lonely Planet and only just realised now how useless the bloody thing probably was. Just as well I didn't take it too seriously. Cheeky as hell that is.

This is what I do these days, it's a far better way of getting the required info. A bit of googling is a good thing too!

:) Matt

Well they would say that wouldn't they?
 

What do you know, the BBC leaps in for the defence:-

BBC NEWS | Americas | Lonely Planet rebuts 'fake' claim

Lonely Planet is 75% owned by BBC Worldwide, the commercial arm of the BBC. Sounds like a good reason why they would jump in to defend Lonely Planet's case I would think.

I personally find guidebooks quite useful. Of course some are better than others but I like city and area maps and background information they provide. Probably never used "where to eat" section, though. :chef:

Some 5 years ago I found Rough Guide to be generally more user friendly alternative but have aquired some latest Lonely Planet books and seems LP is also progressed. Better maps and paper is now thinner, making books smaller/lighter.

let LP steer the sheep away.....
 

As i said in my original post - i find the country info very handy especially in the planning stages. And to have such a large amount of this general information in one place is a bit hard to ignore. The fact that LP doesn't have every good thing to see and do in a country /city is a great thing ( and something LP claim to do on purpose) If you have all the travel sheep traipsing through those fantastic places you've discovered by following your nose or accidentally found.... that would be terrible and no-doubt destroy a large part of what makes those places so great.

And as far as BBC defending LP.... BBC themselves have proven to be less than truthful (and been caught out in the act)

And a big thing to keep in mind is that they are written with a heavy amount of personal experiences and opinions - which of course will vary wildly.

They serve their purpose, and used wisely are helpful. Let the masses follow the main road and let the intrepid discover the unspoilt!

My experience is people who carry Lonely Planets are as good as people on a package tour. But they are less able to admit it.

They go the same hotels, same restaurants, see the same sights, take the same buses and bump into the same lonely planet wielding crowd at the next town or on the tour bus that they convince themselves they took "independently".

Then the hotels and hostels that are listed in the LP are full of "local day tours" cause all their customers are the LP tour crowd.

Without a doubt, part of the rise of Adventure Motorcycling over the last 10 years is precisely a backlash at the package tourisation of 21st century backpacking. And the rise of this tourised backpacking is directly a result of the popularisation of Lonely Planet.

The reality is the LP wielders are on a package tour, they just cant see it.

Thats why we do it on bikes. So we can go where we want, when we want. Without having to sit on a stinky 14 hr bus ride with a pain-in-the-@ss college kid from California telling you how cool he is cause he KNOWS Bolivia ... cause he was there 2 weeks ago.

I strongly discourage the use of LP as I feel it completely takes away from both the sense of adventure and the reliance on your wits. Further it minimises your interaction with the locals. That for me is a major element of the whole travel experience. Locals will always help you find a bed / post office / internet if you need it. And the more you immerse yourself with the locals, the more you get out of your travels. Ergo, the less you get out of it if you are packing a LP guide.

That is quite bold statement! :oops2:

What's next? People who use maps are all sheep? :stupid:

colebatch,

I think your categorizing people too much here. Not everyone who decides to carry a Lonelyplanet book or similar, is a "package tourist".

Recently rode from Europe to Australia with my girlfriend. We went to lots of countries, that we had never been to before, and knew almost nothing about them.

I found it especially useful, that you can get at least some info about accommodation, when you´ll arrive to some new destination after a hard days riding, and the last thing you want to do is start searching for a place (when theres also a good possibility of ending up in some real rathole for a hotel/guesthouse like, say, in India or Indonesia). Yes, you can check them out yourself, and thats often necessary, too, but the books will still give you some idea, where to look from, and about how much you should spend.

Its also good to know, where there will be plenty of hotels etc. available, and where there will be less so, even if your not going to stay in any of the places covered by the book.

It is true that they are likely to guide people into the same direction, and sometimes the feeling of being in the ' backpacker trail' was quite clear, but we also went to plenty of places that those books knew absolutely nothing about, so didnt have time to really get fed up with that.

I dont think there's anything bad about getting a guidebook to a country that youre not familiar with, and it wont make you a package tourist unless you'll only go where the book tells you to. Going by bike, you'll have plenty of choice.

This thread seems to have turned into "Guidebooks - Good or bad?" rather than a critique of Lovely Planet themselves.

I have nothing against using guidebooks for some info. I just find reading LP guides makes me want to beat the authors with a stick.

Matt :)

the old ones are the best?
 

if you can get very old LP guides they are quite interesting reads as you can see how much somewhere has changed, for example the 1980's description of Ashgabat as a dust filled derelict town was not quite the marbled splendour that I found in 06!

I don't take travel books with me as a rule of thumb (too much space), and it is noticable when you chance upon somewhere that has a good mention, suddenly there are other westerners that you would never had noticed otherwise.... good thing or bad thing I am not sure

That would be because I have developed a very strong opinion on it. What exactly would be the point responding if my opinion was vague and less than developed??

As other posters have noted, as soon as you check into a hotel from the LP, you will surrounded by german, dutch, english, australian, kiwi, canadian and american gap year students and backpackers. Whats the point going to mongolia / peru / pakistan to bump into that?

Maybe if you are travelling solo on the bike and you want to go to place where you know you can have a few drinks with some single western female backpackers?? I suppose thats a reason.

Who said anything about maps? I was talking about books that steer people into the same a tiny handful of restaurants and hotels, and then give them the impression that they are "independent". In particular I was criticising the "backpacker" crowd, who treat these books like bibles.

Where did you get maps from???

At the end of the day, the reality is that the more you use guide books, the less you interact with locals. And as I said before, my view is that its the interactions with the locals that make the trip and the trip's memories.

I agree with that but hotel listings and restaurants only take small part of the book, there are a lot of other information and useful maps too. I think it does not matter if one carries LP or just asks locals "about the place where backpackers gather" to end up in that place your describe. It is their mind set, not LP guidebook, that drives them to these places. :surrender:

And I am also using GPS.......... Will I be removed from the HUBB now for beeing to sheepish ?
:-)

I think LP and other books, maps. GPS, internet info, local knowledge etcetera, can all be usefull, depending on how you use them.
Don't follow the LP book or any other book as as your only guide. Don't use your GPS without knowing where you are and where you are going. Don't beleive everything people tell you.
Use your own common sense and make decisions on all the information you have.

That is what I think of it.

I win!
 

When I went over to cen. Asia I did all my navigation using a bit I had cut out of a world wall map, about 18" wide by 6" tall and it covered from the UK to China, no guidebooks just a collins english-russian dictionary.

I think the pathetic lack of a map actually helped because everytime I stopped and asked for directions the locals found it very amusing and I scored a lot of free tea/food etc on the back of it. Admittedly I was on my own with few time restraints so getting lost wasn't a problem.

I found myself using three 'LP' hostels/B&B's, which were very good but overpriced compared to the derelict former soviet block apartments that litter the area (as long as you don't mind the peeling plaster and cockroaches these are a great way to meet the locals). That said the LP places spoke english and were a welcome haven where I could talk to people without sign-language

Plus LP places are a good way to bump into groups of young ladies backpacking who are all easily impressed by the mad biker..... an obvious bonus!!

I drove between London and Capetown using nothing more than a sun compass and an anemometer made out of two egg cups and sucker sticks.
It took me ages just to get out of the UK, always raining.

When I came back north I rode backwards so I could recognise where I'd been to re-trace my route.

Always surprised by people who ride a Goldwing...............

I don't see the need to criticize the use of a guidebook...its their holiday/adventure/money so let them enjoy it however they please.

I personally did not use one during my trip for the same reasons as HenryUk...

BUT the most important takeway from this thread ought to be the following:

Take whatever you need to get yourself on the road and opportunities will present themselves when you put yourself out there;)

That's the hard way
 

No need to go to those lengths and such difficult riding tricks: just cut a slot in the back of your helmet, as I intend to do, so that the eyes in the back of my head can take in the salient POIs (Places of Interest I think that TLA means!) :rolleyes2:.

(Apologies to anyone who is still interested in discussing LP) :offtopic:

I enjoy travelling with a back pack from time to time, I very much enjoy travelling by motorcycle and in some places you can't beat the train. Why make any judgement that one is better than another or that adventure motorcyclists are anything better than any other tourists?

Some seem to take a view that the way they do it is the best way to do it. The grief that Ewan and Charley have received seems quite irrational. They do say that ignorance is bliss and perhaps this is a reason for not reading about where you want to go. There's a good argument for that sometimes but just imagine not visiting the Taj Mahal if you're in Agra or the Colosseum in Rome because you've not looked at a book.

I quite like the LP - it has on the whole some useful maps and a fairly comprehensive coverage. What I don't care for is the descriptions for the places to stay and eat etc - a list with details, price etc would be enough. Each to their own of course and it varies from place to place and from author to author. It's the author that really matters, get a good one and you get a good guide book. Read the bit about the author in the front cover and you get a quick idea whether you will get on with it. What about Lonely Planet Morocco by Austin Vince? Would that work? At first thought yes but probably the poncho basher might feature too regularly in the "places to stay section".

In the case of this particular clown I can't help but feel he's a self publicist who has over egged the whole game. Of course there is artistic license in writing guides but I won't be buying his book on the back of his claims. As for the Colombian guide he never needed to visit to write the intro but I wonder why the actual guide writer could not manage this. That particular guide was not so great IMO - a bit thin but probably a consequence of the security situation in the country.

Did anyone ever try the Trailblazer Asia Overland? What a fantastic book with hand drawn maps and a real comedy element to it ("map not to scale following a few beers" for example). Not sure if this guide is still in print but it's well worth a read whether you love or loathe guide books.

Maybe I could just turn my helmet round then cut a slot in the front.
Ooops, off topic again, must have more discipline.

You too, everyone is doing that these days.

good one
 

good one, same experience !!! :-))))))))))))

more and more people are travelling, so LP and others adapt. it s a business, market shares, etc ...

they try to please the average traveller or most of the travellers and maybe "we" or some of us are / think they are not the average traveller and don t belong to their target ... that s all.

as people said before you should not maybe take the guidebook as a bible ...

I did backpacking before riding and for sure LP and others are more usefull when backpacking.
i m quite happy with LP, some stuff are wrong sometimes, but like others, like me also !
they update their guides every 2 years for main countries. pakistan or central asia every 4-5 years. no tourist = no business for them (?)

in france, we have "guide du routard" guidebooks, they are also much criticized.

it depends what you expect from a guidebook. if you take everything for granted or if after a while you get more and more away from it.

making a guidebook is not easy at all !!! everyone is travelling different and that s the richness of travelling. including ewan mc gregor.

giving trip advice also, even here, is not easy. i ve tried also on my website (Informations pratiques pour les autres voyageurs) during my trip but i m sure some people won t be ok. + things change.

maybe everyone is ok to say that LP went down.
well the authors are paid for that, it s their job i agree. but i ve heard that most of them are free lance and not paid much.

MY QUESTION would be : WHICH GUIDEBOOKS DO YOU RECOMMEND THEN ???

some guidebooks are also better for this or this region? Some guidebooks don t cover the 5 continents, ...
i ve heard that "let's go" guidebooks are doing better and better

happy trails

Trailblazer stuff, while being quite specialist, always seems v. good. Am going to go with 'Rough Guide' next time I need a general country guide and see how I get on with them.

At the end of the day though, maps are the best guidebooks.

Matt :)

Agree with skim reading the Rough Guides. Far preferable to LP. :-)

I think Vincent hit it on the head.... Every brand will have a book that will more "accurate" for that country or more to the point your style. And it's a bit harsh to start writing hate mail if a few things/management/political climate has changed since the book was written

The couple of Let's Go books I've picked up i felt have been even more aimed at the wealthy American Gap student. ( Though it's been few years since I've picked one up

Rough guides have been on the whole reasonabley sound. Though their maps were not as good when compared to LP on the ground (Egypt)

Eyewitness are more of a siteseeing/ tour guide book - They have a lot of indepth histroy and info about the more popular tourist sites ( get a local guide - help the local economy!)

Pinch of salt and a bit of your own common sense..........

Get your juices going here
 

Get your travel books from here

http://www.readitswapit.co.uk/TheLibrary.aspx

then they only cost the price of postage. Who cares then? Great for getting your juices moving in between trips.

As someone said don't use them as a bible and it's fine.

I love ALL travel books, as they just make me want to get out there, but I love them in my library (er spare room to the missus) more than on trips ...

Well said Moto! I really don't think it's very important weather you use a guide book or not, and if you do, it really doesn't put you into a certain class of traveller, does it? Remember, these backpackers are usually kids! Thrown into a new world with a small allowance and absolutely no experience... they need guideance! Myself, on my first trip i used a LP, and was happy to have it. As i travelled more, i would take one, but found that i used it less and less. Now, i like to have one for some of the really useful information they do have, like maps, bus stations, times and aproximate fares, etc....I rarely use it for hotels and resturaunts, but it's not unusual to arrive in a city really late and tired and would like to know where the nearest hostel is for the first night. Nothing wrong with that, is there? Am i still an "Adventure Traveller"? Do i still qualify, or should i just start shaving my armpits now?

It's a shame isn't it? The 250,000 miles I've ridden, in 15 countries over the last 30 some years, and it was all a package tour. All because of the Lonely Planet book in my tank bag.

Its become fashionable to slam LP, since they are popular they can't be hip to use. Kind of the Wal-Mart of guide books. I find them good at directing you to the part of town that is likely to have cheap accomodation, even if you don't stay at one of the places they specifically recommend. I like the central city maps, too. They definitely cater to those using public transport, which come to think of it, I use myself sometimes. I'll be sure to wear my Hawiian shirt and black socks with my huaraches next time I get on a chicken bus.

Seriously, if anyone knows of a guide book series that is more useful to us with private vehicles, I would like to hear about it.

When I came back north I rode backwards so I could recognise where I'd been to re-trace my route.[/quote]

(Markus, I cracked up when I read that one.)


Is LP fine as a guide book? Sure, a lot more mainstream orientated than they used to be but still adequate.

Is using a guide book cheating? Not at all, if it was then we are all cheating in one way or another. IMHO that a guide book just shortens the time you spend screwing around.

As an example, I rode into Allepo, Syria at night sans guidebook or city map. Managed to make into the town center, easy enough but from there it's asking a lot of people who direct you a little bit until you get lost again and have ask for directions.

These aren't modern cities on a grid, they are ancient towns that are spread out higgledy piggedly. Still, kind of fun. After a while I make my way to the hotel part of town - every town has one. From there, I fumble around from ramshackle hotel to ramshackle hotel and find one that has a room and not too many rats. It's a "locals" hotel and I negotiate the room price with the basic Russian I learned from a couple of weeks in Russia (ie not much). This whole exercise takes about two hours.

My neighbor in the hotel is a trucker from Iraq and with the clerk translating, he tells me that I am an American pig. I counter that I am Canadian - like he gives a shit about the subleties of North America vs. America. Still, all good fun and no one gets beaten up in the middle of the night.

Mildly proud of the adventure I am experiencing, in the morning I walk across the street to make sure my bike hasn't been stolen and there are three other bikes parked there. Hmm, what a miracle that they also found this lost world of culture! When we met up later, I asked them where are they staying and how in the world did they get to this area? Easy, they are staying in a hostel a block away and with the little city map in the guidebook it only took them about a half an hour to ride straight there.

So in short they we sitting on a terrace drinking beer while I was fumbling around like a tourist. We all like adventure, but the guidebooks allow you to eliminate some very time consuming "housekeeping" items of travel so you can put your time to better use and more "true" adventures. I, for one, would prefer to be drinking the cold beer as you always get more than enough opportunities to get lost:)

15 countries, OK you're the daddy
 

Yeah its pretty easy deliberately taking quotes out of context, especially if it gives you chance to grin to yourself and throw in the trusty old "how many countries and how many years" routine.

In light of the original post I thought my post (that you have uncontextually quoted) was clearly in reference to the travel sheep backpacker crowd (I even contrasted it with the go anywhere, anytime ability of motorcyclists). If it wasnt clear enough I clarified it a couple of posts later, explicitly as referring to the backpacker crowd who treat these books as bibles. You either didnt read that, or chose to ignore it as it would have spoiled your chance to slip in the "how many countries and how many years" punchline.

Nice touch !

Tom,
Glad to see you're still Ok (physically if not mentally I suppose!)
Cheers, Mark.

Well, you can't expect to put people down based on the brand of guide book they use, of all things, and not expect to have someone point out the ridiculousness of it. Sorry you're taking me so seriously, I don't take you seriously at all.

Does anyone ever step outside of the HU bar?

There always seems to be a oneupmanship that exists whenever anyone travels. Each to their own I reckon but I must say I'm normally against anyone who takes themselves too seriously as the new David Livingstone. At the end of it we're all tourists and it's all been done before. We're not special but we are privileged.

Evidently, my sarcasm doesn't travel over the internet any better than a tourist with a Lonely Planet book, but point taken. I'll sit down and shut up before we need a fight cage in the HU bar.

Some guides are better than others.
I understand the bitching, but do suggest remembering these aren't tablets brought-down to you from The Mountain, regardless of the cost or personal beliefs.

All this type of information is quickly becoming avalable on the Net.

Guide books go well with maps when planning.

I tend to choose Lonely Planet over Rough Guide simply because I prefer the typeface and layout of their books which I find makes it easier to read.

RG probably has the edge when it comes to tourist information, but with the basics like campsites and eating they tend to be similar (based on a quick comparion of RG and LP Ireland books). These books are a similar size but RG manages to get 900 pages into it whilst LP only manages 730.

You pay your money, you make your choice.

baswacky.

One press report .. from a travel writer (at lest that is what is claimed :)

Death of the guidebook: lost in a cutthroat world - News - Travel - smh.com.au

Think that is a fair representation.

Maps .. in guide books are a fair source of information .. and the local library has a guide book section - take them home photo the map and take that with you .. saves the weight of the book, and once you have used the map you can free the space for another photo.. Teh map might be 'old' but it is a tourist map .. not likely to go out of date too much.

use it as a basic info book when needed.. nice to have when u are 500 miles away at night in the middle of nowhere and was wondering (in general) what resources u have access to at "somepoint" down the road.. not the only place to look - but a place to start to look at "unitil" u get where u are going.. and if times against u - well u have some info right at your hand.. etc etc..

plus if u don't speak the local lang.. can't find english print material... it can save your asssssssssssssss! not just LP but any paperback info book..

that said - I am buying footprint and rough guide books as backup now.. new to motorcycle travel.. but old caver/long dist packpacker/bicyclist.. LP saved my ass coming out of the wild in the 70's after a 4 months hike!! a lot of info in one place!

Of some use, but our needs are different
 

I left my LP of Argentina in a hotel, and went back to what I did before someone gave me them. (Ecudor/Peru/Bolivia/Chile/Argentina) that is ride up and down the main drag checking out the hotels and if there are none pay a local taxi to take me to one. In Argentina/Chile/Uruguay most towns have budget hotels. As long as the bike is safe I can take the bed bugs and cold water pipe sticking out of a crumbling wall in the corner of a room.

With Smellybikers map in my Garmin now I can find petrol (most important thing)and hotels in many, but not all, countries now. (How times change, I once posted that Satnav was an idle luxury!!)

With the wealth of knowledge we have on the HUBB we should be able to put together our own M/C versions. Did I see a post somewhere requesting this info?

Hi D!

Keep on riding Stagb.........bloody brilliant! Your recent hammock photo says it all!

Good roads!

See thread......
 

Maybe we can start something. See thread Accommodation list for South America dowwnloadable

Yes there is a move here to have a GPS tracks (andPOI)? thingy .. The issue though is that maps are brand specific so HU may not produce maps as they don't cover everyones gps .. just tracks and waypoints that can be translated between brands by GPSBabble.. http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/tripplan/routes/

But I think you'll find most of the Wanderlust Map users are bikers .. and as such are adding data of intreset to other bike riders ... I know I am. If 'we' keep geting updates each year (or near year) the map will be just so good ... !!! Version 2 - due out soonish .. with topo info... This will I think be the world map of choice for bike riders .. I'm adding petrol station where they matter ie where it is over say 100 kms from one to another.. in Australia.

On side note, I pop into the LP head office, just over the water in Footscray, a mate is in one of the ED's, any hoo, the building used to be an abandoned warehouse, were i used to go for slightly large raves, (non-drug user :-)...
kinda funnny the other week when i road round the back and thought.. i know this joint...

the reception does have a very nice complete example of all there books.. would look good in a lounge..

cheers al

p.s. i use the guide books to get the info, a MIO PDA with in built gps running tom tom, worked great in Berlin and random places around AUS.

as an old vagabond - I have to be honest and say it's all an adventure!

It's just a part of where u are at in the way of adventure! Everyone had to start somewhere doing something! Some travel by motorcycle, others by bicycle - then theres the hikers, long dist hikers (PCT 2600 miles/ AT 2100 miles), and yes the college kid using a LP guide... The main thing is they had a dream of getting away from whatever! Over time they may or may not "come back" to adventure.

Theres a lot more as to why some may go one way or another in travel and the mode they use! For the lone woman - it may be safty! Others ????? Etc, Etc...

As for true travelers - I think the one hiking the PCT 2600 from Mexico to Canada by foot/pack is truly an adventurer! The Bicyclist doing a RTW - my hats off to them!


peace!

I always enjoy Lonely Planet's unbiased history section.

If you step in dog shit during your visit to Bolivia, this is because the damned Yankee Imperialists in the US failed to fund the United Nations Dog Shit Mitigation Program.

Aw come on!

You're not trying to make out that LP has an anti US bias? Or could LP just be reporting unpleasant US foreign policy accurately? If you step in Bolivian dooda dont blame others, blame yourself - or the "Munroe Doctrine".

All that said, I found the Rough Guide to Pakistan absolutely brilliant. Mostly it depends on the author, rather than the brand.

There is no RG Pakistan (did you mean LP? looks suspiciously good to me). But as you say it's very much down to good authors not brands. The original post was about one of the less good authors (or an LP publicity stunt).

Did anyone ever try the Trailblazer Asia Overland? What a fantastic book ...
It's amazing how people still go on about that book years after it's long gone - but it's also unlikely to happen.

Seriously, if anyone knows of a guide book series that is more useful to us with private vehicles, I would like to hear about it.

There isn't one AFAIK because it's still a minority way of travelling (esp in Af, Asia and Lat Am) compared to fly-ins, backpackers etc. Still, it would not take much for updaters to mention fuel stations, secure parking, road conditions etc. After all they must get around somehow.

I just travelled in south Morocco testing both LP and RG among other things and I can see why users get irate. The gaps or outright guesswork in some places where updaters haven't been/been for years is shocking. How hard can it be in Mk?
It was interesting comparing the series head to head for the first time. In Mk's case the lighter LP felt more modern, in touch and user-friendly. Generally it's said LP are better in Asia, RG in Europe and for South Am get the Footprint.

Some guides are better than others. I understand the bitching, but do suggest remembering these aren't tablets brought-down to you from The Mountain...

That about sums it up. For the typical 15 quid they cost they're worth it in the planning/getting ideas/early OTR stage after which you just dip in once in a while but generally follow your nose.

Ch

See now you're blaming us for dog shit in Bolivia as well.

And it is Monroe not Munroe. A doctrine worth supporting as it opposes European Imperialism in the New World whether it be Soviet Imperialism in Nicaragua or the Brits attacking Argentina.

Granted it went astray with the Roosevelt Corollary.

erm... we own the Falkland Islands, they were invaded by Argentina and Britain acted entirely within the confines of the Geneva convention when we defended our territory (we hardly 'attacked' the falklands).
Now invading a soveriegn nation without any sort of international approval would[/I][/B] have been a different matter, but what civilised country on earth would do that..........

I found them 'city-centric' (is that a word?). I'd take one if I was flying in for a few days on a £10 Ryanair special. I got a handful from the library for the countries I might pass through - a bit out of date maybe, but good enough to get an idea.

Just a thought on the 'sheep' thing mentioned earlier. If we were THAT independent, why are we here?

Well, it's not my fault Mr. Munroe couldn't spell his own name correctly! He claimed that South America was the US's "backyard". How's that for imperialism and a denial of democracy? And please, dont write from the USA and talk about others promoting imperialism. Many of your countrymen, like Noam Chomsky, value freedom and regret the damage done to democracy by your governments since Vietnam.

The UK opposed an Argentinian military dictatorship invading a democracy. That's what we stand for - come aboard! We did it so that RTW bikers could pass freely in South America on our visits to the land of Chavez, Bolivar, Zapata, Castro, Allende and of course the shining Guevara.

Don´t worry I knew you were parroting Chomsky from the get go. It was pretty obvious you have never read the original text.

Own Chomsky´s books and have met him a couple times. He is a regular in the Boulder area.

Given LP is now a branch of the BBC, I´m very curious to read their description of the Falklands conflict.

Will they focus on the Falkland´s massive oil reserves or the fact the islanders were only made citizens after the war was over?

I´m pretty sure LP won´t mention the fact the BBC sabotaged the war effort by providing sensitive information to the Argentinians.

I note the lack of objectivity in the word "parroting".... and the fantasy that I haven't read the original....

What is this US obsession with the "personality"? - ie you've "met him a couple of times", and "own" his books". You are like those medieval Europeans who thought that nearness to even the body of a saint conferred energy and wisdom. That was 1000 years ago, Jock.

I think you must be one of those crazed , hairy, wild eyed survivalists, dressed in camouflage and military cap, rifle in hand, and evidenced in your suspicion of the BBC and seeing conspiracy plots with LP and the BBC.

Jock! get normal!

Jeez guys, what the hell has this to do with LP Guidebooks? Take it to the bar!

Matt :(

Well Matt, if you had read the posts, you would see that they refer to LP. You yourself have the habit of being off thread, but no-one cries "Jeez" as if it was agony....now come on Matt, willya?

Pff..pretty slim connection. Anyway, am going to leave you to it.

(Flounces off in huff.)

Matt :)

I blame Edinburgh for your tetchiness- it makes folk grumpy; all that cold wind and horrible pies and chips. Get yourself up to the Western Highlands at the w/end. Open up your bike on the big long straight over Rannoch Moor. Go catch trout in the hill lochs....

Don´t get me wrong, I find him an insufferable Neo-Gramscian shill.

But even worse is listening to every self-satisfied half-wit quoting him or Michael Moore and thinking they are engaged in radically independent thought...speaking truth to power and so on.

You say that like it is a bad thing.

The BBC has always been an instrument of propaganda. In fact the BBC´s own internal investigations point to bias. Where do you think George Orwell got his idea for the Ministry of Truth if not his experiences at the BBC?

Getting back to the original thread... i appear to be in the minority in that i like the LP giving me ideas as to what's what in a country i've not been to - like Greece at the moment. No real conception as to what to see other than the islands. I'd never heard of Meteora, for example, yet found it a fascinating place. It's true that when an organ gets too large/popular/successful then it's original aims get somewhat muddied over time (Microsoft/Starbucks/USAdministrations[?-contraversial, ho,ho]), but i've backpacked around the planet on the back of LP and found it an invaluable assistant - the maps, in particular, are really useful. And don't forget Tony Wheeler must be one of the original bike travellers, we forget so easily. A thumbs-up from me, i'm afraid (cue vitriolic replies...):thumbup1: