Airbag Bike Jackets - The way to go?
 

Airbag bike jackets seem to be in the news lately. I found these interesting clips on UTUBE. Personally £600 to £1000 for a replacement jacket looks pretty expensive. I wonder if the government might consider giving grants towards one of these things? Probably not (it would interfere with their gold plated pensions)...

YouTube - Autobike Airbag Jacket

YouTube - abj1

YouTube - airbag motorcycle jacket

My biggest concerns with these are the way they are triggered, how much of a pull does the lanyard need before they go off, If you park up and walk away forgetting that your lanyard is still attached will it trigger?

Also I just know that my 'mates' wouldn't be able to resist giving it a tug while at a cafe/bar/waiting at traffic lights!

I'll bet it would be quite handy for deep river crossings though...


Seriously though, it does look like a good idea, though having once tried to use a coiled cord beteween my belt and ignition key to make sure I didn't leave it in the bike when I got off, I for one know being attached to the bike like that would take quite a bit of getting used to. It would have to have a hell of a quick response time too.

heavy
 

A couple years ago a friend who worked for a motorcycle magazine was loaned one. He let me put it on, and was HEAVY.
I would have appreciated something that may have saved me from a broken collar bone in Russia, but unless they are lighter now, I couldn't imagine wearing that all day long every day....

There was a picture of a WSB or MotoGP rider on the back of MCN about a year ago, after a off. Apparently, Dainese were/are developing them.

Seems like a good idea but I think the fear of setting it off by accident while getting of the bike, outside a coffee shop/bar/bikers meet/race meeting, surrounded by other bikers is what will kill it. Can you imagine the embarrassment?

:rofl:

Anyway, I'm all for safety but don't want to see bikes full of idiot devices like cars are now.

An article at the end of the BBC news tonight had a stunt(I think I heard that right) demonstrate one of these air jackets, then a guy from St Thomas' hospital saying they should be compulsory:eek3:
They then showed some motorcycle accident 'crash' scenes with bikes that looked like they had been torpedoed, I ask you, what use would an inflatable jacket have been to the 'riders' of the bikes shown? maybe a parachute may have been more appropriate, I hope our government is not really going to listen to this latest crap,or it will be something else for us to dislike that 'one eyed Scottish idiot' for.
:oops2:

Yep
 

Agreed, also did you notice that Jeremy Clarkson apologised for insulting the one eyed Scottish idiot's appearance. Smart Cooky--that leaves him having been called a Scottish idiot. I can't help but notice that if he has one eye and is Scottish that's just a description. I'm a two eyed Scottish er person. I also think that the one eyed Scot is an idiot and won't apologise as I've no job to lose. Linzi.

Last time I bought a jacket, I went to my shop of choice to try a few out in SW London.

Personally, I like IXS as a brand a lot and have worn about 3 or so pieces o kit from tham that have lasted a loooooong time. So, the one I own now I bought in about 2003. The only other jacket I was considering was another IXS with the inflatable air-bladders. It was also Goretex lined, and airmoured. I don't remmeber it being that heavy, but all bike kit is IMO and it was not that expensive (£350ish?).

In the end I went for the standard. I just did not have the money to go the extra £80, but I don't think it would have been a bad buy...

PS: found it. No idea of price, though. IXS Airbag Jacket STUNT (appropriate name...)
http://www.ixs-fashion.com/b2c.asp?PageNo=DEFAULT

I saw the Beeb's article too, but in the morning, where it was a little bit longer, and the surgeon was revealed to be a biker himself. They also pointed out it was highly unlikely that any legislation would be brought in at all, but that it was a way of drawing biker's attention to these jackets.

Impact Air Bag Riding Jacket | Insidebikes | Carole Nash

Talks about one, and I presume they all function in much the same way. It says you need 25lbs of pull to trigger it, suggesting that just getting off and walking away wouldn't exert this much with out you noticing. Also says it's repackable and you then just replace the £7.50 gas cylinder, so it's not like setting it off is going to ruin your jacket, just your reputation.

You can also get over/under jackets too, so you don't even have to abandon your favourite current jacket.

Thank you Dr Parfitt
 

I for one am profoundly grateful to Dr Andy Parfitt and his colleagues at St Thomas' Hospital for his concern for my welfare and his endeavours to protect me from myself. Up until this point I had conducted my entire life under the illusion of free will, that I ride my motorcycles knowingly and accepting of the risks involved. I realise now that I was wrong and see the error of my ways and wholeheartedly accept the right of Dr Parfitt to decide for me what risks he decides it is acceptable for me to undertake. Although I am a fully grown, tax paying and voting adult it is irresponsible for me to live my life in a way that Dr Parfitt deems unsafe and unacceptable and fully defer to my betters in their right to dictate how from now on, I should indeed live my life and that all along I should have lived it according to his and his colleagues standards.

Why I believe Dr Parfitt ought to go further and restrict the use of motorcycles capable of speeds in excess of 20 mph altogether so that we all may live our lives in complete safety. And then move on to other activities Dr Parfitt would like to stamp out. My profound thanks to Dr Parfitt for at least trying to restrict my foolishness for my own good and to protect me from myself. Thank you Dr Parfitt.

Thought old Parfitt may be trying to do himself out of a job, perhaps postmen should suggest that people stop sending letters:thumbup1:


As a doctor why don't he 'bang on' about underage drinking or get out on the streets of london and tackle Knife crime?

Oh, of course we have the Police for that? :confused1:


Or the up to 11pm plastic police :oops2:



Better known as CHIMPS .... Can't Help In Most Police Situations :rofl:

...or the 30000 people die as a result of medical errors every year :nono:

BBC News | UK | Medical errors 'kill thousands'

Indeed
 

And I'm sure neither of you bother with your seatbelts either, after all who on earth would want the State to tell us we should do something to prevent ourselves going through the windscreen?

I'm not 100% certain they should be made compulsory, but I'm 90% certain that the type of cynical comment made above makes bikers look like anti-social prats who deserve every bit of legislation thrown at them possible.

Mister Parfitt's a biker himself, I believe, and he's only trying to save your skin (literally). And think, if it keeps you out of hospital, you're less likely to be the victim of medical error.

seconded! I fail to understand what your problem is 'fastship'. Sounds like your full of 'ship'.

Not at all - I simply feel able to assess the risks myself and take responsibility for my own life accordingly. I don't feel the need to abrogate that control to a nanny state like you guys seem to want to. Grow a spine for God's sake!.

saw an example of one of these at the bike show last year looked to be a top bit of kit, the demo was very good and the chap on the stand knew his stuff. He said something about kitting out the Olypic equestrian team with them and that they may be compulsary at the next Olypics. The price wasnt crazy and the demo included the recharging and repacking procedues. He also said there was a repair service available.

The system was available as a bladder or as a combo with a jacket.

Good stuff liked the earlier comment re a grant would be a bonus if the government did something positive for bikes.:scooter:

It appears that many bikers along with Fastship and myself are not prepared to just grease our arses and bend over and just take whatever crap is thrown in our direction unlike tommytitfromleeds and Alexletit

:oops2::censored:

OK, before things get too personal, lets accept a few things.

Being told what to do and how to do it has never solved any problems. Being told you can't smoke weed has not changed a thing. Being told you couldn't drink after 11pm (in the UK) led to binge drinking and forcing people to wear this type of jacket or another will not solve much either, IMO. That said, I will happily buy an air jacket of my own free will if I have the cash...

However, as stated above, I don't think legislating yet more safety features will help. It passes the cost onto the biker and avoids the real cause of the problem. All thqt said, there is a proble on the roads... Traffic levels a soaring, and driving standards (certainly in the UK) are falling ( I don't think they've ever risen here in Tallinn...:rolleyes2:).

If they want to reduce accidents, be it for cars or bikes, then they need to spend money on education and awareness.

Perhaps make 6 months on a scooter compulsory for anyone taking a driving licence.... Riding bikes has made me a better cage driver, for sure. Car drivers may then know what its like to be on the receiving end of thoughtless driving. Perhaps they might enjoy the observation skills, and forward planning that makes defensive riding the best protection of all....

No need to get personal, or if you want to take it to the Bar mate, I'll happily see you there.

I, like you, saw a report on the Beeb about these (actually both the early morning and 6pm news articles), and simply wanted to add in the extra information about Dr Parfitt, that I'd got from the first report, namely that the guy isn't some silly do-gooder with no idea about biking, but is in fact a biker himself. If anyone knows about the risks I imagine it's a biking A&E doctor, who's no doubt had to sew back together more than his fair share of bikers.

Arguing that somehow accepting a safety device is an act of spineless openness to being shafted left, right, and sideways by an over protective nanny state is what angers me. If you want to find an argument against it find something more objective, or alternatively say that you've tried one on and hated the feel of it, but don't just say "oh Alex you t*t".

EDIT: I'm sure there's plenty of times when we can show that making safety devices compulsory has indeed solved some problems, look at legislation for the wearing of seat belts, very few people seem to object to that being a point of law, and it does seem to have brought down injury and fatality rates.

Costs? I guess if you make these compulsory you'll increase demand, if you do that you'll encourage supply, and if you do that you'll bring costs down. If you look at existing prices £300-£400 or so they're not that much more than a decent jacket anyway. Increase demand and the chances are prices will drop so we'll hardly notice the difference in price at all.

I honestly cannot stop laughing...this by far is THE best thing I have ever been called!!! tommytit, classic! :rofl:

I love it when people cannot deal with a counter argument, they just end up name calling! Whether your 6 or 60 you cannot beat a bit of name calling! hahahaha...tommyTIT....love it!



EDIT
Plus; can the UK governement REALLY enforce this???? I mean whats the punishement going to be? At the end of the day it is your life. Along with the thread about tracking overseas movements (am I really to believe this has not been happening since the birth of advanced surveillance????) I find these hard to worry about and take seriously. please do not reply with "well you should take it seriously".

Think the snow is getting to people you know, why don't we all go for a ride????

OK, I made an excessive generalisation: there are some safety features that are good. Injuries have surely come down courtesy of seat belts, and lids but would it not be better if accidents were to come down instead? Seat belts do nothing for accidents involving bikers, cyclists and pedestrians, only the cage drivers...

I don't think trying to control things is the answer.... I think its just an easier thing to resort to and requires less fore-thought, planning, is easily implemented and the politician can claim proactiveness...

As for prices, if things are compulsory, where is the incentive for companies to drop prices significantly? If we have to buy it, its not like we can boycott an expensive accessory that just because its pricey.

Take lids. Decent lids are now more expensive than ever. Back when I bought my first lid, I bought the best I could: a Shoei X8R in 1992. It cost about £300. How much is top range Arai nowadays? I don't scrimp on bike kit: I get the best stuff I can afford and don't regret it, but its still a heck of a blow to my wallet when its jacket, lid or boot time comes round again

If they want to make it compulsory for us to buy kit, however good it might be: its essentially a stealth tax: I think bikers should get a government grant for new kit every 3 years or based on NCB to reflect the what we have not cost the NHS in specialist help...

Let me put it this way. If it became compulsory to wear such jackets, I am sure that many people would benefit in a prang, and I would not cry for some lost freedom, but it would not make accidents any less likely, and I think that is a missed opportunity...

The safest jacket you can buy is the one you feel comfortable wearing. Same goes for helmets. Once your mind starts thinking, "the weight of the airbag jacket is uncomfortable", you're more likely to have an accident in the first place as you're not focusing 110% on your riding.

That doctor may well be a biker but saying they'll save X number of lives is a statistic he's pulled out of his a**e. He may well have £700+ to spend on a colour co-ordinated, Dainese airbag leathers (I'm betting he rides a 1098), the rest of us don't. If made compulsory, the cost would kill the UK motorcycle market by making it into a hobby for the rich.

And if the government is going to bang on about compulsory safety kit, how about they knock the VAT off, like they do for workwear required under the H&S Act?

Good points (especially the VAT :clap:).

As for the UK MC industry... From what I've seen living far too long in London and the SE, it already is a hobby for the rich and not the common-minded pursuit it was when I started riding. Don't hold yiur breath to have someone give you the nod heading the other way, and certainly not for some one to stop if you''re sat on the hard shoulder!!

Knocking the VAT off just allows them more profit... it will cost the same, VAT or not... look at helmets.

One "benefit" that's been ignored is that you will have a water proff layer that works:innocent:, whether you want it or not :thumbdown:. Nice on a hot day:eek3:

John

What is the make of jacket used in the BBC clip?

BBC - Newsbeat - Technology - Air bag jacket 'could save lives'

baswacky

I think there is only ONE jacket which is legal for sale in the UK and I believe its the same company which I heard on Radio 2 talking to Chris Evans.

From what I remember, its a British company and they have just signed an 18,000 unit deal with the French police force.... It must be good then :thumbup1:




P.S. Whats with all the arguing on the hubb now ????? Chill :nono:

Good point but that's London for you. Just speak to someone who you don't know and they eyeball you like you've got two heads or something.

"Up norf", I'm pleased to say it's still an affordable pastime. And yes, you will get a nod. Maybe it's got something to do with cheaper property prices so even us peasants can afford a place to store a bike or two. Go to any bike meet and you'll still find elderly Fireblades, FZR1000's and plenty of other sub-£2000 bikes, most of which will still embarrass a £100k+ supercar. With the spiralling cost of insurance and petrol, there's a large number of bikers who will be forced off the roads due to cost leaving motorcycling the preserve of "Hooray Henry's".

Good point about the VAT too and already proven by the pathetic 2.5% reduction in VAT. Are things any cheaper? Point I was trying to make is that they won't take the VAT off as it's not in their interest. Motorcycling is still seen as a luxury and not as a valid means of transport, which is why it's taken so long to allow them in bus lanes.

I think these jackets are a good idea but it should be left to the individual to decide whether they want them or not. Personally, I don't want the government interfering in my riding, any more than I want them to force me to buy a bike with ABS, traction control, speed limiters, GPS tracking, airbags, auto braking to prevent tailgating, etc, etc. That day will come though.

And the point about costing the taxpayer money with my visits to A&E, I will agree to wear one when they start making smokers pay for their cancer treatment, etc.

Interesting. I'm guessing the others are illegal to sell as they contain blank shot gun type cartridges? You can ride a motorcycle in a pink tutu, there is no legislation that defines what is or is not a motorcycle jacket. There is lots of legislation to do with explosive devices. Did the "approved" manufacturer make that clear? If not, perhaps they are more into marketing than engineering?

As there is no defined test as to what these things are supposed to do or even how the air system is supposed to interact with other safety features (armour inside or out for piercing impacts?) I'm staying well away. Imagine what's happen with that lanyard fired version if the zip was part open or the lanyard wrapped round the bike and acted like a cheese wire? What you need is proper research into injuries, a test model of what a jacket should do in a set of different scenarios, a defined set of actions and interlocks for activation and finally a CE approval test that includes the air bag deployment. Stunt men and soda syphon cartidges don't cut it, that's not safety system development.

The first one I'd consider would an inflateable neck brace in a helmet. It could be controlled by accelerometers and buckle interlocks like a car system and would need to be approved, so it would at least do no harm.

Oh, and if you plan to go swimming in one take note, poor life belt designs of the past involved the "survivor" being face down in the water with a broken neck!

Andy

Input
 

Hi guys, for what it's worth I have a stiff spine which means I suspect I'd snap it if I landed on my back in almost any situation. I asked my rheumatologist what would happen if I crashed a bike. He sort of sucked his teeth and commented that I really DID want to kill myself. No I want to get on and live a bit. OK, so I use a very good back protector at all times. I really took interest in first reports of neck braces and air bags in jackets too. But I dislike being told what to do/wear. On balance I decided to concentrate on avoiding every collision at all costs. Much better than any armour. When I rode in winter recently I also chose to use an extra layer rather than the back protector, relying Furygan's layer of rubber. I have thought about this a LOT and avoidance is paramount. I don't think I would use an air bag in daily situations but then I shall also never try wheelying! Linzi.

I agree with that 100%. £300 spent on training, regardless of your experience level or or how good you think you are, is far better that any jacket costing twice that.

Seconded about the training.

Ridsing up north:
Yup. the times my bike has taken me up there, there was still a healthy fraternal feel to biking. A nice surprise...

think its a great idea which needs so researching on . I had a nasty accident on my bike,was hit by a car and broke my arm fortunatly rest of me was fine.

But i does not matter how good of biker you are as there are always some idiot in a car who does not check the side mirrors before turning infront of you! I would definatly by a airbag jacket if it would save me from getting paralyzed .. its a no brainer

:thumbup1:

Hi Long time reader, first comment,

I'm entirely sure but when sailing your told not to wear a lifejacket inside your kit as their is a possibility it could crush you. There was said to be someone who died from that in the Sydney to Hobart '98. Something to worry about if this air bag is inflating under your jacket and the least way of resistance is inwards, crushing your chest.

Game on if there is some kit that will protect me a little more I may well go for it. We have to remember that Air Bags aren't compulsory for cars and they have been round for years. I doubt they will become compulsory for bikes.

Happy Riding to you all

Steve

I have had several accidents where I have not become seperated from the bike. Which would make the jacket not just expensive but useless.

Matt :)

PS- As Hubbers, should we not be above using a persons nationality as a form of insult? And for an Englishman to do this screams of "People in glass houses..." :(

I got to look at one of the over-jacket airbag kits today. It reminded me slightly of an uninflated lifejacket, I hardly felt the weight and didn't fell hampered moving. I'm sure in peak summer that I'd feel the difference of an extra layer in places, but as it didn't cover my whole back when deflated I don't think it'd be like riding in a plastic bag.

But, I didn't buy it even though I've probably just got the money to do so, and on the way home I got to thinking "Why not?" Partly it was the fact I hated the look of it and it got in the way of the pockets or my jacket, partly it was the thought of another set of zips and buckles to tackle everytime I wanted to put things on or off, and partly because I was wondering if it'd really add that much extra protection on top of the CE approved stuff built into my jacket.

So I can see more now, why it's going to be hard to convince anyone, as I was all for the idea of an airbag jacket (although not compulsory use of one) and I didn't end up buying one when offered.

I remember playing with these back in 2006 - I found them comfortable and they did require a hell of a pull to set them off.

http://londonbikers.com/galleries/im...g=1047&i=34284

The only thing that concerned me them was the location of the gas canister - right over the ribs

http://londonbikers.com/galleries/im...g=1047&i=19269

But the price was around the same as a good jacket at the time and I was really surprised at how easy it was to pack back up and re-arm - of course it was an LB meet so there was lots of messing around and trying to set them off - but it took such a yank that no-one managed to do it.

On the whole safety front. I'm all for further research into stuff that will make riding a bike safer, and I like the opportunity to choose what bits I do wear - and the thing is - since I've got older and had better jobs I've bought better and better gear... and as I've had more and more training I've become a better rider - could really have done with this good kit when I was coming off every other corner on my 125!

But my point is this... the company marketing this has pulled a very clever below the line advertising trick.

The UK government has no intention of making this stuff compulsory - the doctor who talked about this will have been paid a tidy sum by the marketing company to say these things - which he may well believe - and then the marketing company makes big of it and offers interviews. This is what I used to do at UBC Media - and this is a text book case.

Their aim? Get bikers talking about them and debating them - nothing better than a controversial topic like this.

So there we go boys, we've fallen right into the marketer trap! :oops2:

Possibley, but there are enough people on the various web pages who know about car air bags to rip these things to shreds. If it's a marketing ploy it's a dangerous one. If your air bag meets something unexpected, you are going to be in the soup for a few hundred thousand, especially if you killed a government employee.

Points that worry me:

1. There is no approval test. You can market three bin bags and a soda syphon cartridge just as much as something Dainese or whoever spent a lot of cash developing. You'd have no idea if the metal cartridge will smash your ribs or the air bag will break you neck until somebody else falls off wearing one.

2. Lanyard activation is a joke. On a car the air bags have accelerometers that start the deployment and a host of switches and sensors that tick boxes in the logic to say you are sat in the right place, with you seat belt on and are not a bag of shopping or kiddy seat. Screwing a length of tent guy rope to a fairing and hopeing the rider sits in the right place in relation to the length of rope, does up his zips and doesn't have a disk lock in his pocket seems rather hopeful by comparison. What if the lanyand wraps round your wrist?

3. Air bags act as part of a system and only provide a controlled deceleration element. Crush, abrasion and penetration protection is provided in a car by the structure and on a bike by armour and the right materials. An air bag added over armour would seem to do no harm, but the complete jackets look like all or nothing protection.

What I'm surprised none of the big boys has marketed is a complete system. It worked for firemen and American footballers. Jacket and trousers designed to stay together, a helmet with a neck brace and gloves and boots that don't come off would seem a better starting point. The neck brace and boots could use air bag technology, but from a marketing point of view you have a much better USP to your boss in takeing all a riders business.

The thing on the BBC was a gimmick. I'm beting it's a glorified CV so the developers can try and enforce patents when someone doing a proper development hits the same spot. It's a old trick, skip straight to the end point avoiding the hard work in the middle then get a good lawyer. To see how it's done read up on the Wright brothers, they were still in court in the 1930's dealing with late Victorian loons who said they'd patented flying. The courts threw it out as doing is proveing, which is IMHO why your soda syphon developers will love the BBC piece and all the web chat.

Andy

You could have a point there...

Airbag doctor: “I don’t wear one” - Motorcycle News

Note than he's quoted as saying that the manufacturers have no evidence, independent or otherwise, to prove that these jackets are worth having.

Also, they may be a bit late if they think publicising on BBC will sort any patent issues out. Check these articles from MCN, both published in November 2007!

Dainese airbag suit: Exclusive crash test pictures - Motorcycle News

Dainese's new airbag suit tested in racing at the Valencia MotoGP - Motorcycle News

Looks very different from the one on BBC and appears to focus on specific protection of the head and neck. It looks like Dainese have done some very specific research and development rather than just pumping up the whole jacket with a sodastream cannister.

Rong Brothers
 

Hi, as I hope one of our New Zealand friends will say, the first powered flight was made by a Kiwi farmer. Not name of Britten or Munro either! Linzi.

I'm just looking at the text on the cannister and can't help thinking it's just another gimmicky piece of kit from a near 3rd world country that looks the part, but serves no other purpose but to part you from your money.

And how many 16yo's have the cash to buy one if made compulsory? It's hard enough persuading them to actually do the CBT and get insurance! That's the point I'm trying to make when I say it will kill off the UK motorcycle industry if the cost of motorcycling keeps escalating, particularly at entry level.

And I'm also looking at that neck support. I'd like to see a physio's or chiropractors view on it as I'd guess an ill-fitting jacket that went off during a spill could cause more injuries than it prevents.

I cant understand the negative comments on this thread..

Surely anything that helps to prevent injury is a good thing. I don't think anyone is ever going to force you to wear one.

Training is obviously very important but no amount of training can prevent accidents caused by other people doing unpredictable things !!

The price certainly puts me off but If the entire French police bike force has bought them, they must be good for something !

I think its a good thing !

Hi, your use of the word "unpredictable" is the give away. Predict everything as any collision with whatever protection you wear is likely to smash you to a pulp. Biking is like the hardest level of computer game imaginable--master it. I think such a jacket is not worth the bother. It might not help in a collision anyway. Too many bikers simply don't get it that there is no such thing as "the dimwit pulled out infront of me". The biker is the dimwit for hitting him. Take responsibility for your life, not winge about other dunces. I am not speaking to you now when I say this by the way, simply stating my view on it. Linzi.

While I agree with you to a point, there is no 100% avoidable accident ! Its just a total impossibilty. Sure you can reduce your chances with your style and senses but even the best riders take a tumble and even the most conscienscious rider can be slammed up the arse by a car who doesnt hit the brakes in time or a crazy overtaking chav cutting you up.

Iv been hit by drivers doing the most unimaginable things which you couldnt predict even if you were riding at 110% of your ability. If you rode like you were scating thin ice 100% of the time, you wouldnt enjoy yourself and then theres just no point.

Its a small mind that thinks you can be totally safe by taking a few courses !!

I used to think that way before I was hit by the cars and took the tumbles !!

And in noway am I saying you have a small mind !! :innocent:

The cost of these jackets is high.. no doubt !! But there are plenty of jackets more expensive than these sold purely on marketing and fashion.

Looks like similar jackets have been available from J&S Accessories for a number of years now.

From visordown.com

:stupid: Possibly the kind of dimwit Linzi is referring to but we need these people to test such things for us. Accident's, bar an Act of God, don't just happen, there is always a cause . Anyone who can't deal with that should buy a car.

Another comment from visordown was also that if it causes you to go into a roll as opposed to a slide, how can that possibly be safer? I've had a couple of very minor off's and can't say I ever remember rolling down the road with all limbs flailing around, as seen on the video. If anything, that's going to increase your injuries.

Going back to Matt's 1st pic, it shows the size and position of the neck support when inflated. Excuse me for stating the obvious but the rider would be wearing a helmet and I think it's fair to be concerned at the direction of leverage and sudden force that that would throw the rider's head forward. Again, I feel like I'm stating the obvious but it clearly wasn't designed by or had any input from anyone with any knowledge of biomechanics.

Surprise
 

Ted, you'll no doubt be surprised to hear that I agree with you but still choose not to get one. It's a very fine line between your correct view that a crash is always possible and choosing not to wear one. But I used to fly a hang glider without a parachute when I couldn't afford one, getting one later. I make judgements myself and decide to ride super defensively with leather and back protector even to go half a mile. But leave it at that. The only likely risk I can't avoid is a head on overtake but that's terminal anyway. I stop at lights in gear watching to see if the car approaching will stop--if not then I'd be off! The Portuguese truck driver that just got done for killing a family is a case in point. The car driver should have seen the truck coming and gone onto the hard shoulder. That should have been a dead Portuguese trucker as he head butted the stationary truck infront. Linzi.

Would we talking about "negative comments" if the device in question was an underfairing explosive to counteract the blast effects of the car in front hitting something and sending out lethal bits of metal? Most people would see it as science fiction and yet such reactive armour exists and is in wide spread military use.

The fact that an airbag is a well publicised bit of automotive technology and looks like a nice comfy kiddies baloon makes people want to believe in it. The fact is that the application of the airbag without the seat, seatbelt, crush zones, retracting steering column and pedals and the logic to control deployment, the airbag is just as new an application as the reactive armour. An airbag is a brief pulse of high pressure gas that acts like a spring for a few milliseconds. Deploy it too close and it'll break bones, too late and you might as well use that kiddies baloon. Is saying I'd rather not have the deployment controlled by a random bit of steel cable negative?

Andy

I'm not convinced
 

They show the guy in the news clip with the Ducati that sustained a broken pelvis and back and then the news reader goes on to say that it is exactly these kinds of injuries that the jacket will prevent .:detective:


That's strange... I've never wrapped my jacket around my pelvis...


Also... if the air jacket is so great at protecting you then why is the guy testing it wearing a full suit of body armour?



There is an agenda here and I'm not sure who is driving it :confused1:

It's a gas
 

Ai lad that's a bonie point ya made there. I had also decided the air bag jacket would have to supplement armour or include such a jacket. The short time of inflation is important too but best point you made is the spring effect. That is So important. I saw a demo video of a falling builder onto a carpark. I was immediately impressed and would have bought such a jacket if a salesman had been there. Now I'm much less convinced. It seems the jacket would be best in a collision at a junction so I'll keep working at care there. Interestingly in UK most male riders crash on corners. Funny I've skidded out on diesel and slick road where my armour was great and adequate. The biggest risks to me are my own mood and lack of grip. I'm much more interested in eradicating diesel spills. No ammount of care can protect there. Linzi.

I think this argument mainly boils down to cost. There's a significant proportion of people in the world (and on the HUBB!) who trot out the line "If it saves your life then it's worth it..." Blah, blah, blah. They bang on about never riding with anything less than a three hundred quid lid and the finest body armour money can buy and insinuating that anyone who doesn't is an idiot.
Sure, buy the kit you can afford, but I'm afraid some of us just don't have that much cash lying around. My relatively cheapo £120 Hein Gericke Tuareg was a stretch for me to buy (and its protected me fine in a coupl of offs), I bought my helmet in a sale and my back armour is stuff I bought years ago for snowboarding.
At the end of the day, you can't predict all eventualities and simply going out and spending lots of money won't keep you safe. As well as riding motorbikes I climb mountains, canoe and ski off-piste. If I'd bought all the kit I'd been told was 'essential' and would 'save my life' over the years I'd have an absolute crap load of nice kit but would never have had any money to go places and use it.

Matt :)

I couldn't agree more Matt :thumbup1:. I don't ride a motorbike to be safe. :scooter:

If I wanted to be safe I'd stay at home. :rofl:

I don't have any objection to mitigating some of that risk by wearing a helmet, boots gloves and a jacket but you have to draw the line somewhere. The last near miss I had a car did a U-turn in the road in front of me. My front wheel made contact with his drivers door but I managed to stop the bike... just. The ABS kicked in. I wonder if I would have skidded to a straight line stop sooner without the ABS :confused1:. On that occasion the only injury I sustained were some slightly crushed crown jewels :eek3:. Do I forever wear a cod piece now for fear that I might bruise my manhood? I don't think so.

A locked wheel on a hard smooth surface produces almost zero deceleration, that's why the back end tries to overtake the front and you low side. You'd have stopped longer/harder. Demo we used to do on training courses (I worked for an ABS manufacturer for 13 years up to last year) was to run a toy car down a tilted board with cotton wound round the axles for brakes and blu-tak for locked wheels. Try it if you don't believe me, the car braking stops on the board, the one with locked wheels dents the skirting board. :offtopic:

Cost is an interesting one. For certainty I'd pay thousands. The question to me is how much better is a £100 jacket than a £300 one. Testing above the CE level by the magazines has suggested some £100 gear is better than some at a lot more. Pot luck there IMHO although the helmet rateings hopefully show how this will develop.

Andy