Sorry, I also meant to respond to this point. Sure, if you know the city you're in, you'll note that the GPS takes you on routes that are not the best, based on your experience. Why? Because computers are dumb. But the key is that the GPS-proposed routes will in fact get you to the destination, even if via a sub-optimal route, and that is the key for me if I'm riding into a strange city as darkness approaches.

And one more point--the most useful thing about a GPS in my view is using them to get OUT of a city in the direction you want to go. Getting into the center of a city is generally fairly easy, because of signs, etc., but getting out in the right direction can be a pain without a GPS. Of course you can ask at the hotel before you leave, but if the person you ask doesn't have a car, etc., the response you get might be wrong.

Man, you certainly got that right! ... and I've blown a few bucks ... once again paying Taxi guys just to get me OUT! doh

Are GPS units getting cheaper? Seems everytime I look the latest ones seem to go for about $600 to $800 usd. Am I missing a deal somewhere?
Would you ever risk buying a used or Ebay refurbished one? ....

Then I'll just need someone to answer all my idiotic GPS NOOB questions! bier

No such thing as dumb questions about GPS (well, almost anyway...), because people use them in so many different ways, and until you have used one fairly extensively yourself it is difficult to appreciate their strengths and weaknesses.

I guess some of the "true adventurers" refuse to use GPS because they prefer the challenge of getting lost and then trying to communicate with locals with whom they don't share a language. In my view, such interactions very often result in miscommunications, misunderstandings, and lots of wasted time, and so are very frustrating. They could also lead to dangerous/unpleasant circumstances if they direct you to the wrong place. But I guess some people enjoy the challenge...

Regarding GPS--yes, the new ones always seem to cost about the same amount--$600-800. I would buy a used/refurbed one, either from somewhere like ADVRider or eBay. Some people buy a new GPS everytime a new one comes out, so there are some lightly used ones out there, although of course you need to vet the vendor as thoroughly as possible. I would try to buy one with maps pre-installed for the area that you want, and again, one that gives oral directions. Personally I like the ones that also play music, because I listen to music when I ride. Also, don't forget to get a mount and make sure you can wire it to the bike (saves hassles, batteries).

You could probably get a used Zumo 550 for a couple hundred bucks at this point--they are great, and I've been using one for several years (one died after a rough trip).

In Europe the signs are set up to direct you to the central train station .. where you'll find a tourist office .. and maps .. and staff who may help with what ever you want. Parking can be difficult .. look for a cop and sign language for parking/help.

But I like my GPS..

it finds things that I ride right past .. several times!:helpsmilie: A hotel in a back ally but with the address in the main street... ok if your walking but with traffic on the bike?

it takes me to places I'd never go to .. :oops2: through routing choices... mine has;

avoid toll roads (tick)
avoid u turns (tick)
avoid highways (sometimes ticked - if I'm in a no hurry adventure mood)

a slider bar - one end 'prefer minor roads' other end 'prefer highways' (generally in the middle)

A choice as to route either
'Shortest route' (interesting back roads can be shorter than the highway .. by a meter or two!)
or
'Fastest Route" (can lead to motorways and traffic jams doh)

As you can see the number of choices you make for your routing method will have an impact on the route it shows you ... if you know the way then you might be surprised at its choices.. change the settings and see what it does then.. I've actually found better routes than the ones I've been using for years locally!

------------
They are a fun toy. :scooter: If the map is accurate I've used it in fog to tell me what is coming - 90 deg corner left etc. When in traffic I ignore it .. and miss the turns .. it will recalculate and give me another route. I'd not be without it. The trick is to get good maps. If you use OSM then looking at a satellite view and check that OSM has details for the places you are heading. If not add the detail to OSM .. then you and everyone else has that detail for your GPS.

IMHE, it's the human interface which is 'dumb'!
The most common reply I hear is "I haven't the time and can't be bothered to learn about this thing"! ...and because of this attitude, some do not realise/know/or indeed want to know ... :innocent: that there are many many settings which need...to be set to their preferences . I enjoy answering (or researching if I do not know the answer) all questions, noob ones inc.! but when I realise some can't be bothered...

When it all goes pear-shaped, many whinge endlessly blaming...the satnav, of course, unless their partners are aboard then, unluckily for them...they will get the blame doh! :biggrin:


A satnav is a precision instrument but it is only as good as the human 'tool' who is operating it!; those are often 'defective' and do not come with any warranties! :Beach: " Don't follow me; I'm lost too"!

OR come to some Horizons meet ups where the Satnav subject is on the agenda:thumbup1:

Of course there is much truth in this, but in cities I know well I don't count on the GPS to determine the optimal route, because they (at least the ones I have!) don't take into account things like where traffic builds up, traffic lights, difficult making left turns, etc.

But I am generally confident that the GPS will calculate an effective route, even if not the best.

The other issue is that the maps are sometimes wrong, although thankfully not often. I was recently in Naples, Italy, looking for a hotel. I asked the GPS to take me to three different hotels, but when I arrived at the addresses there were no hotels there. That was a first for me...

Yep, you are right Motoreiter- maps are inevitably inaccurate, one way systems sprout up, new roads appear, old ones disappear- waypoints become obsolete as development takes place etc etc. - Reliance on turn by turn can often 'dumb down' the operator and frustrate the heck of of them. Don't ask me how I know...doh I did learn the hard way!

This is the main reason why I always encourage others to learn about navigating in a straight line. This is where you untick the option of 'lock on road' and set the satnav to 'off road nav' - having previously set the compass option to 'CDI' amongst others settings... then suggest they go out there and practice - woops.... :whistling:, I think I may have just used a dirty word...:rofl:

So much fun, so little time!:Beach:

I'm a GPS refusnik most of the time. They have their uses, but I've been led on too many magical mystery tours by others who trust a tiny computer screen over heads-up riding and good old-fashioned sign-posting. Our trip through Russia and the Ukraine was almost farcical, being alternately led by one of two GPS-users - one had Russian maps but the software was incompatible with his model Garmin, rendering the Cyrillic script as gobbledegook, and the other was riding a bike with a top speed of about 55 mph, so set his preferences to shortest route, avoiding highways. I lost count of the number of dirt tracks and wind farms we found. The best bit was entering Lviv via the back roads, pavements and a restaurant terrace!!!

Unfortunately, only one of us was capable of reading the signposts because only one of us had bothered to learn the Cyrillic alphabet before we left the UK. Not wishing to blow my own trumpet here, but guess which one. :laugh:

Well, this is a clear example of a problem with the GPS user, not the GPS. Obviously, turning on a GPS is no reason to turn off your brain. And using a GPS without proper maps for it is just a waste of time. For instance, there are excellent GPS maps for Russia, but to use some of them, your GPS has to be "Russified". However, "sign-posting" in Russia can also be a frustrating experience, since often there are very few signposts.

This is exactly how I would recommend riding through European Russia (in Siberia there aren't enough roads), so as far as I'm concerned your friend did you a favor. You can really see a lot of cool stuff like this, and meet people that have probably never met a foreigner.

The alternative is to blow down the main highways, which are lined with avaricious police, crammed with trucks and other traffic, and generally devoid of anything interesting. Not fun at all, would you really prefer that?

Agree ... wholeheartedly! :laugh:

Well, quite. I'm all in favour of soaking up a bit of local culture. But there is a balance - and it comes down to your first comment about using your brain. While I agree there's no fun in blowing down the main highways, there's also no fun making a turn every 200m or so, for hours on end, because you've never looked at a map, haven't a clue where you are, and have no choice but to slavishly follow where the GPS leads.

well, yes, rather understandable...

It's where the compass points to which you need to follow...
set to use minor roads and trails only
set off road (direct) routing
set compass to CDI
set Lock on road = No
Engage brain (pluuuueezzzeee!)
and the sun, no matter where you are, still rises in the East and sets in the West.
Ride and explore! and remember to look in your mirror now and again to see the size of your grin grow!

Don't tell anyone; it's the worse kept secret in exploring new lands and meeting tons of interesting folks, finding awesome wild camp places, village markets with tasty foods and maybe even the odd troglodyte or three :funmeteryes:

I read your post and smiled....I spent a few weeks in Mexico with a broken GPS and some pretty crummy road maps. Between this and my crummy Spanish, I made friends, saw cool stuff, and had the time of my life.

Thanks for posting, friend.

I only want to add that it is customary in some cultures to be as helpful as possible, even if they have no idea what they're talking about. In Latin America and plenty of places in Africa it is a good policy to ask directions 5 times and then take the average of all those answers (ask, go a block, ask, go a block, ask). Even if not a single person is right, together their answers will get you there. Personally I love these countries, because that sort of eagerness to help means that local hospitality will be amazing.

I hate cords. I like the feel and pleasure of a paper map, and if it happens, getting lost and interacting with locals improves the adventure. So for cities, I would never want a GPS. But, I think GPS definitely has it's place in off-road adventure. There was a few times that I wished I could have done the unsigned, untraveled desert pistes of Africa, but without GPS waypoints to guide me and without locals to ask I could have ended up in some dangerous (or at least very expensive) situations.

Thumbs on hiring a cab driver to lead you for an agreed-on price. I've done that numerous times. By far the fastest and least stressful way to get to your destination in a crazy and complex urban environment in which many GPS maps falter.

Asking and trying to follow directions can be fun in morning or middle of the day, but I'll hit up a cabbie late in the day when I just want to reach the destination and crack a beer. :thumbup1: