What's the chance of Brits being welcomed back to travel Russia in the next decade ?
 

I'm kicking myself that I kept putting off a trip to ride across central Asia and Russia.

Most Eastern overland routes require travelling through Russia. And those that don't are also closed to travelling Brits on bikes (Iran, China etc)

What's the chance of any kind of civility between the U.K and Russia in the next ten years ?

When this is our current situation. It's all so gloomy. :thumbdown:

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...ns-2022-06-30/

10 years is a long time. In the next 5 years I would say to possibility is very low, since Putin will still be alive.

In the next 10 years I give it a 60% chance. I think we will see a change in leadership in Russia, then the country will be very unstable, and the westerners will be allowed to enter.

Just a pure guess...

Five years sounds like a long time to me. And then it will be a land of chaos.

Not good :(

We're all wired neurologically to favor catastrophizing in response to almost anything--see "Chicken Little," among others. That's because avoidance of threats (the classic saber-toothed tiger or poisonous berries) was more important in evolutionary terms than attraction to stuff that looked or felt nice (a pretty sunset or comfortable motorbike seat).

As far as I can tell, the world is not coming to an end, and probably much will be different ten years from now. Within my short lifespan, China has opened and then temporarily closed again, as have other places you could name, while vast areas once off-limits have become accessible and remain so--Mozambique, say, or Angola, the former Yugoslavia (depending on where your timeline starts), most of SE Asia. On the other hand, most of us probably missed out on the years during which the trans-Sahara routes through Algeria, Nigeria and Mali were practical, and I doubt they're coming back anytime soon. A few may have done the full overland route through Afghanistan et al during the seventies, but anyone who missed that chance may never get a second chance. I--or you--could go on and on.

In ten years we might look back at a brief interlude during which we could travel freely in Russia, or we might see the reverse--a period of upheaval which interrupted a long stretch of great freedoms for those of us favored by accidents of birth. That's you and I, in case it's not clear.

I'd guess travel through Russia will again be possible within your ten year window, though whether it gets easier or more difficult than it was a couple of years back is an open question. I'm pretty certain alternatives will open (and close) periodically, even for people with US and UK passports. And none of us had any realistic hope of going everywhere and doing everything regardless of geopolitics and surprise pandemics.

The above represents a bit of my current attempt to come to grips with the approaching end of my ability to travel rough and adventurously--age-related, mainly. If you think you're catching a faint whiff of defensive self-justification....well....you're right.

Mark

Nice summary. And as you said - the list, possibilities and possible scenarios could be extended indefinitely.

@*Touring Ted* If you want to visit central Asia it will probably become accessible again later this year. I've heard news that Turkmenistan allegedly will start allowing transit again and maybe Azerbaijan will open up again in September as announced.

As for Russia - it seems that you could still visit now, if you wanted? I met a USA passport holder who entered Russia from Georgia just last week and if I interprete his Instagram correctly he's having a good time riding to Vladivostok right now.

Cheers,
Benjamin

Are Brits specifically banned from entering Russia?

I postponed few times my dream travel to Magadan and Mongolia and now I have it doh i strongly believe though travel through Russia will be possible soon. Some sources state Putin is dead or very sick so many can change if that's true.

For now I will try to travel to ?Stans countries.

The only real answer is "it depends". There are people travelling Russia at the moment (not many, but some...) and they report no trouble with locals or borders. I am tempted to point out that people are people, and you make your own friends and enemies wherever you go. Want an example? Iran, the country our government loves to hate, where you as a traveller can receive the warmest welcome in the world.

My personal view is Putin's war will be over, or nearly so, by the end of this year. There is growing weariness in the west to pour billions into a campaign to hurt Russia, and still see Russia making advances. I don't believe he wants the whole country, just Donbass and Crimea, as they have always said. Militarily speaking, that's achievable. As the campaign stretches on we will be into autumn, gas prices will skyrocket and there will be the real risk of Russia cutting off supplies altogether. Of course the politicians will still be warm but they may feel the wrath of the ordinary people, freezing in their houses and with no electricity to light their workplaces.

I am pencilling in "Silk and Siberia" for next year, across Siberia to Magadan and back via the Silk Road. We'll see.

On the other hand NATO, America's tame dog, may decide to escalate matters catastrophically, and then I don't think many of us will be travelling anywhere much.

BTW when USA invaded Iraq, Afghanistan and many other countries somehow nobody banned American companies, goods and you could travel freely...
Nobody also put restrictions on American citizens.

Look at the timing from the fall of the Berlin wall, through the Yeltsin years up to Putin getting nostalgic for his KGB years and you can well imagine a situation in 5 years wherever everyone is welcome but you might not want to go. I was sent to Leningrad/St. Peterburg in the 90's and if you had dollars the welcome was enthusiastic, especially from gangsters and their employees.

There is no more drive from the big economies in the world to do the right thing and end the corruption-authoritarianism cycle Russia has been in since 1914 than there was in 1990, so I think the timing will be similar.

If you want another example look at Afghanistan, when it's in a 19th Century phase it's open if not for the feint hearted, when they decide it was nicer in the 12th Century its not. They cycle there is what, 10-15 years?

Andy

One good news is Bałorus removes visa requirements for Poland so I have one step closer to Mongolia :Beach: Now is Russia turn.

If you think not being able to ride your motorcycle in Russia is 'gloomy', just imagine what it's like for Ukrainians.

I don't think there is any doubt in anyone's mind how awful the situation is for Ukrainians. Or indeed anyone who faces the sharp side of any conflict.

Apologies if my comment was harsh....

About five years ago, one of my coworkers and I were complaining at length about some annoying changes in our workplace. After a long pause, he then said flippantly, "Oh well, it could be a lot worse - at least we're not in a war zone!"

I've caught myself thinking it a lot lately; whenever something doesn't go to my liking, I stop and remind myself that my life could be far, far worse than it is. I have it pretty easy compared to most of the people in this world.

Isn`t it generally a luxury problem to complain about not beeing able to travel through a certain country?

When I read this the thread, I remembered this website:

https://www.passportindex.org/?

Of course it's a luxury.

But when was the last time you went on hunger strike because a child starved in Africa ?

I'm going to guess never. And neither have I.

no, this is not luxury at all, this is normal people right to travel all over the world freely.

Pure Whataboutism...

It is a guilty thought, but we are human.

I can relate with wishing I did a Russia trip 5 years ago also.

Hopefully Russia gets an overhaul in their government soon. The sham of a democracy that they were leapfrogged into was one of the many failures of the Reagan/ Thatcher governments.

Russia has never had the democratic tradition that we in the west see as normal. They went from centuries of serfdom under the Tsars to decades of repression under the USSR to a deeply conservative and corrupt neoliberal economy under the current regime. The public mood is nationalistic and the more the west pushes Russia away the more it will retreat into itself. If anything the current crisis is likely to make Putin more secure, not less. Countries in wartime tend to rally round a leader seen as strong - see Bush, Thatcher, even Johnson is trying for the halo effect. And remember in many countries the people only respect strong rulers - anything else is a sign of weakness and invites a challenge.

At the end of the day the question in the OP is valid, how will Russian people at home see us as travellers? Mostly not badly, I feel, but if the conflict escalates that could change.

Democratic tradition? :rofl: look what happened thanks to that stupid democratic tradition to Western World - it's falling!

Churchill was correct.

I'll take even Boris over a steroid addicted nutter like Putin. (Even the KGB decided not to lem him go further than East Germany in case he did something embarrassing). What comes after Putin, especially if US manufacturing and Ukrainian fortitude breaks Russias economy before they end the war, could be much worse.

Andy

Churchill on Russia: "It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma."

but Enigma was cracked by mathematicians from Poland. :thumbup1:

Having travelled in politically 'enemy' countries like Iran (on a UK passport), or countries where the UK has forces in active combat such as Afghanistan, and from many years of travelling all over Russia and the Former USSR, I really don't think you have anything to worry about from the people in general.

If you are talking about the Russian authorities, they have never much welcomed tourists and that's one of the major attractions in Russia in my opinion. It's sufficiently 'difficult' (i.e. no Ryanair flight and visa free entry) to keep the trash of mass tourism out. Maybe I've missed something specific to UK passport holders, but I believe the visa issuing process goes on as usual. That seems to be the case for EU-Schengen nationals at least.

A very credible member of this forum has posted that Russian land borders are now open.

Perhaps the question is one of making the effort to visit, rather than finding reasons not to?

EO

So here's one to ponder for UK passport holders:
If the two Brits facing execution in the Donbass are actually executed, would you go?

My question was very much about the authorities. Getting a Russian 'Business visa' was pretty much the only option for people who wanted long term multiple entry visas. Which are needed if you want to ride all the way east. And pre-conflict, it was already difficult.


I agree. People are people. Wherever you go in the World.

Facts can be a real 'nuisance' to forum posts...
 

Alan Turing, born June 23rd 1912 in London, England & died onJune 7th 1954 in Wilmslow, Cheshire cracked the enigma code mainly thanks to the universal Turing machine he invented arguably the forerunner to the modern computer.
You really must lay off those mushrooms Tremens... and stop torturing innocent electrons.

Tremens was quite right - the Polish code breakers were the first to break the first versions of the Enigma machines and Turing built on their knowledge. This was done in 1932.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enigma_machine

Never indeed. But then, I have also not given my travel money to the government of an African country that starves its own or its neighbors' children...

Travelling and spending your money in a deprived country helps the people who live there. Not the Government.

Cash to the hotel/campground
Cash to the food sellers
Cash to the restaurants

etc.

Tourism feeds an economy direct at source. It's the dirty deals with other Governments for resources which feeds a corrupt Government.

Yes, I may pay the Government a $20 for the VISA. But let's hope that the border guard gets his salary from that.