Want Your Opinions - Training / Small Bike
 

I've recently purchased a larger Adventure bike and its been a long time since I rode in the dirt (20yrs ago) and I need some education and practice to learn to ride/handle the bigger bike off road and was looking for thoguhts and suggestions from the Forum.. I know training is always a great solution however I have limited funds ($1000) and wanted to use it most effectively to ride better..

Okay the two options I've thought about so far:

1 - 4 days of good off-road training from a reputable local school on my big bike to learn how to ride it

2 - Buy a smaller 2-400cc dirt bike ride it till the wheels fall off this winter / spring and get comfortable on all sorts of terrain and also get some videos & books on techniques

I understand getting proper training and instructions you can take with you always. I have been riding for 20yrs now and am very comfortable on pavement and can handle my street bikes pretty well so I'm not a new rider but I am on dirt.

Thank You,

Hi brbo :welcome:

Your story is not too dissimilar to my own. I have just come back from the bitumen & onto the dirt on a R1200GSA about 6 months back, after 18yrs.
I too contemplated the training, but have found that getting out there & riding, it is all coming back in waves & no problems so far.
Although I found the weight & horsepower a bit much to start with, I have now got it comfortably power sliding & climbing terrain that may be a bike this size shouldn't doh Only one :oops2: so far :eek3:
Find someone to ride with and go for it. ENJOY your new bike :thumbup1::mchappy:

The good thing about learning (or re-learning in your case) dirt riding on a small bike is that:
1. Your confidence comes in strong right away. Easy to ride ... actually FUN!
2. With this confidence, your learning curve will spike sharply UPWARD much more quickly compared to trying to learn on a big bike.

Lots depends on your fitness and natural skill. Getting out with a capable buddy is invaluable. Get him to teach you. I've taught lots of novices ... it is not too hard to do.

But do it on a 250 or smaller. Everything you learn will transfer over to your BIG bike ... although allow a serious period of adjustment and be prepared to be stunned at what a PIG the big bike turns out to be in tricky situations ...

If you intend to try serious technical enduro trails, super rocky terrain, steep ups and downs on your big bike as everyday riding ... then, IMO, you are on the WRONG BIKE! :helpsmilie:

But if your off road is mostly dirt or gravel roads or two track, some sand and occasional rocky sections, with prior training you'll make it on the big bike ... with effort and learned technique.

Chances are most of your travel will involve roads of some sort, even if bad roads. For that the big bike will do with practice, good technique and effort.

Also consider LOAD. Most travelers carry way too much crap. This can turn an OK handling bike into an unmanageable nightmare. Keep it light and FUN!
If you're not having fun ... then why do it?

(once you've been pinned like a bug under a 700 lbs. BMW GSA, you'll understand what I mean!) :rofl:

bier

Still don’t understand why anyone would buy tank to go off roading? doh

Mid size (600/650) is plenty big enough for long distance but i think 250`s with soft luggage are the way to go IMHO, if you really want to have fun & enjoy the ride.

Personally i would be getting experience & building your strength on your big bike.

Mezo.

Want Your Opinions - Training / Small Bike
 

Having passed a test in the UK on a Fazer 600, coming out to South America and buying an XR250 and riding it on a mix of gravel, sand, road and some proper off-road has been invaluable. The 250 is fun to ride but slow by motorcycle standards, so all the bad mistakes I used to make were easy to correct. Plus light bikes like a Ddr200 or Serato, or xr250 off road = fun!!

All true ... but ...
The fact is most over-landers spend about 80% or more on paved roads. But one can never quite know for sure what may be encountered. So skills are required ... even on a big bike.

Many on big comfortable GS's going two up avoid more technical sections. In some parts of the world that is possible, but not everywhere.

Riders go with the big bike for ON ROAD comfort, speed and two up ability. Simple. Different strokes.

Not everyone is looking to ride a Dakar event for a RTW ride. :helpsmilie:
I personally gave up on big bikes for travel and ride a DR650. But I ride solo and like to "explore" a bit of dirt. I also have 40 years off road experience riding and racing. Once again .... different strokes. But important to know your limitations.

Plenty try this. Many shit themselves and from that point on, AVOID all dirt tracks. Been there, seen it many times.

Even a fully loaded 650 can be a handful off road for a novice dirt rider ... seen many been put off dual sport riding all together from having bad, scary initial experiences. You want to start fun and easy to build confidence. This actually works and, IMHO, is critical to really learn and be safe.

For the average, unskilled rider, starting on a big bike is possibly dangerous, may lead to giving up ADV off roading all together (IMHO). Witnessed this many times among riding buddies who were convinced they could ride their big GS's off road and could just "pick up" skills required. They went back to street riding and ride ONLY PAVEMENT.

Broken Femur coming:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-2..._KntQM-L-1.jpg
GS Rider Down!

Mollydog,

You pretty much nailed it - I'm not looking to off-road with a big bike - I'm looking for distance riding with some dirt thrown in.. I previously had a 650 and did the job okay but not great on either road/dirt - hence the decision of upping to a bigger bike for better road abilities...

I think you may be talking from much more experience than I ever could and getting a smaller bike for skills and confidence may be the route for me...

Great input,, keep it coming..

Cheers

important lesson always missing??
 

There is one thing I have not seen on many similar posts about dirt / off road riding / on road riding. There is a lot of "training" to be had regarding how to ride, but never do you see discussions about how to fall off. Yes I know........most off's are down to "pilot error" It will happen accept it and be ready for it.

I would love to go on a course which teaches how to come off without getting hurt. Having said that my most serious injury was when I fell off at standstill ! ( that was pilot error )

So come on who feels most qualified to give some pointers on how to fall off ? :rofl:

No expert here, but I have decades of riding experience. Responding because I recently had my first real accident where I was sliding down the road at a speed where I could have been hurt bad. Had a few other mishaps over my time, and all happen so fast there is no time to react and "fall off correctly". That's my real world experience. When in a difficult situation on a moto, you don't stop riding the bike and plan for the crash. You keep on riding it until you aren't, and you keep your feet on the pegs, despite your natural instinct. ATGATT is about all there is for falling off "correctly". There is plenty of time to think and react as you're sliding down the road. You think fast and act, because time is slowed down during moments like that.

Back on subject; I find my 250 to be a hoot if you're not riding roads that are faster than 100km/65mph. The 250 is much easier to pick up and I have more willingness to go places where I shouldn't be riding on a bigger moto. Those places make for rewarding experiences and good memories. I look for those out of the way roads when I'm on my 250.

A 650cc will go anywhere you want, but is heavy on really rough stuff. It is a better bike for fast roads, if that's what you want, and for heavy loads of stuff. I'm more in to smaller and light, which is easier to handle and doesn't limit my curiosity. Even though I own a liter moto and have ridden a lot of gravel roads with it, I'd never consider taking it on a trip outside of the US or Canada.

Sometimes, in the end, it comes down to riding what you own. In that case, any motorcycle is perfectly fine.

You should travel around on both motos before you take off on a long trip and see what you like. It becomes a personal choice and preference, depending on what you want to see and do when you travel. Keeping your kit light makes a lot of difference; soft luggage, only the stuff you really need.

Buen viaja!

Soft luggage because it's lighter?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Mainly because its safer when you fall off, boxes can trap you leg & break them.

And secondly you tend not to pack/carry unnecessary crap with less space available.

Mezo.

smaller training bike
 

Hi I am in a very similar situation, had a Honda XL250 15 yrs ago had a ball on it, have now plumped for a XT660z tenere, As there is very little choice for bikes capable of offroad riding. The 250 was ok until I was riding home on the motorway 100 miles and could not get away from some swine in a lorry who insisted on driving 10 feet behind me all the way back, hence the 660. I would buy the bigger bike (not too heavy) and practice on that as it will be very different to the lighter bike. I have tried my 660 off road and found it surprisingly good as long as your moving! when you stop you tend to fall over as if the ground is uneven you cant reach the ground and by the time your feet touch the ground the bike is past the point of no return due to its wieght. I had the same problem on my 250 which was lower but due to the lower wieght I did not drop it as often. I am going to book in for an off road riding course (the Yamaha tenere experience who have my bike) and drop theirs!! As it should work out the less expensive option. :) Height is not really the problem but wieght definitely is, it once took me an hour to drag my 250 out of a bog on my own, I doubt whether I could have done it with the 660. :innocent:

Thanks for the replies...
 

This was not an option to buy small or big - I already have a big Adventure bike,, it was to buy a small bike to practice on OR take training... as they would both run close to the same money...

I'm confident on this bike on asphalt - so I have decided to take some lessons in the spring, as I found a really good school nearby.. and the get proper techniques for a larger bike to handle in mild off road / gravel terrain.

I also like the idea of riding with good riders and get tips and help from however being new in this type of ride I haven't met any locals to get this from - from any of the local forums/meetup groups yet...

Great topic to keep the suggestions coming in for others in the same boat as there are many options to get better on two wheels..

?c?

Yes good idea to have a go on a smaller bike. Do you want to know the reasons? To me they stand out on there own.


Fall over, easer to pick up.
A big hand full is not going to get you into a world of trouble.
Light to move round.


And at the end of the day, you can either sell it on. Or have the odd play day's. Go for it.
John933

You're on the right track. Since you have a SHORT riding season in Canada, I would think about doing a Baja ride once you get some basic experience and develop some skills.

There are several good Baja tour companies to choose, or you could arrange your own ride. You pay a premium for a guided tour but everything is covered.

You fly into San Diego, they pick you up, drive you into Mexico, hop on bikes and GO. Your luggage is taken in Van to hotels, so you carry next to nothing.
Medi-vac provided if required.

Good bikes to choose from, mostly CRF250X or similar. Some DRZ400's, some XR400's. Haines is most popular, but look into ALL of them, get best deal you can.

They may provide "Novice" tours and group you in with riders of similar skill level, even provide tips and notes on riding technique. All the guides are great riders ... and most very wise. (I've met and ridden with a few)

You will improve very rapidly in Baja under their guidance.

Here is the scene at Mike's Sky Rancho in Northern Baja at days end. The Haines company was there with 3 tours ... about 50 bikes in all. Big party!

This is a BIG deal. Guys arrive in Baja from all over USA/Canada to ride this amazing land. It is spectacular.

http://patricksphotos.smugmug.com/ph...-tqKCXsM-L.jpg
http://patricksphotos.smugmug.com/ph...-6fMj4QR-L.jpg
Typical Baja riding, most easy sandy tracks.
http://patricksphotos.smugmug.com/ph...-zJXm3Dg-L.jpg
Fun Beach riding too ... Temps in Winter range from 65F up to 80F further South.
http://patricksphotos.smugmug.com/ph...-pHwnMW8-L.jpg

My group shown here were on our own. We know the routes. The tour guys know all the routes too and can plan a route based on skill level of the group.
Not cheap but very much worth it, IMHO.