UK looks to ban on petrol car sales from 2030
 

There is a new initiative from the UK Government to distract everyone from the shambles in the Prime Ministers office by announcing that they are now looking to ban the sale of petrol and diesel engined cars from 2030 - moving it forward from 2040. The ban looks to include hybrid cars from 2035.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-54937277

However there is no mention of motorcycles. Previously the Motorcycle Action Group (MAG) managed to confirm that the 2040 ban did not extent to bikes - hopefully this will continue to be the case until such time as the technology and infrastructure is there.

https://www.mag-uk.org/mag-confirms-...r-motorcycles/

There remains the problem for the people on his forum that we are looking at the availability of refuelling points worldwide and for the “plug” to be of a consistent type.

As I see it UK government is looking for more and more trouble, it definitely wont last till 2030 anyway LOL

Are you referring to the year 2030 or the time 2030?

Ridiculous. What happens to all the current ICE vehicles? I assume they will be 'grandfathered' but for how long? How many mechanics and others will be unemployed?

Not to mention that your average working Joe or Jane who needs a private vehicle doesn't have $40,000+ to buy a new electric car! But I guess we'll all just switch to riding bicycles...
:rofl:

Well the textbook answers would be that ICE vehicles will continue to operate and be supported for as long as they continue to run, but will gradually disappear by natural attrition as no new ones are being sold. In the meantime garages and the like would transition over to supporting EVs and it will become harder to find petrol stations.

As for ownership, most cars these days go on PCH plans so users don't feel the upfront ownership costs. Although rentals would be higher due to the production cost of the vehicles the lower running costs offset that, and you may find govt subsidies being thrown in as well. Ultimately a lot of the lobbies that are supporting the EV trend would be more than happy to see people abandoning personal car ownership and making more use of cycles, buses, etc.

Bikes needn't expect to be exempt for long. Transport planners already view them as dirtier per passenger mile than public transport or shared cars. Better get used to electric bikes, because if the car market fully goes over to EV bikes will have to follow. Remember what I said about petrol stations becoming scarce?

Whether it actually happens is another matter. It's easy to make a law, but laws can be unmade and if the country isn't ready for the changes that law will bring in, there will be irresistible pressure for a U-turn, or at least postponement. And the main reason is likely to be the country's energy generation and distribution ability. Millions of cars and bikes on the road today would be plugging into the electricity grid, drawing heavy current. Users without private charging points would face huge problems of finding public ones. Even using overnight supplies, when business and domestic use is lowest, the demand for electricity to charge EVs would be immense. You won't build new power generation stations and distribution networks in 10 years, even if you increase the availability of charging points.

Assuming it does all go ahead, whatever the date, it would have a massive impact on adventure motorcycling. If the LWU series on electric Harleys proved one thing, it's that electric bikes are useless outside of a well developed urban environment. Can you imagine taking an electric bike through Central Asia or along the Road of Bones? You can carry spare petrol without too much difficulty, not so spare electricity. This would present a dilemma, should we ride electric bikes which may be the only supported means of transport in developed nations, but which would be unusable outside them; or should we cling on to petrol powered bikes that can travel the world, as they become harder to fuel at home, hit by emissions taxes and with parts becoming scarce as they are no longer made?

I think banning ICE vehicles from big city's is a good idea, i remember blowing my nose at night after a days work in London & it was black with diesel soot, but a nationwide ban is simply playing politics.

I feel many tree huggers fail to understand how electricity is generated (coal fired power stations) all they are doing is swapping one fossil fuel pollution for another, but it looks clean/green & keeps the ill informed thunberg millennial`s happy.

And besides, you think SE Asia or South America are going EV this century? nope.


Mezo.

And the solution is here

In the UK the coal fired power stations have been largely wound down. For long periods of time they are just sat there being maintained. We are moving to greener fuels gradually - gas is less polluting than coal, nuclear cleaner still and wind and solar the greenest of the lot. Realistically we need a fuel supply that can supply the base load and be turned up and down as required. The most likely source globally is, in the long term, geothermal - have a read here.

Geothermal produced electricity could produce the base load power we need - rendering gas, coal and nuclear systems redundant due to their high cost and allowing the production of hydrogen to power vehicles off grid when the power isn’t needed. Solar and wind can be used remotely for places off the grid but obviously can’t do base load.

The thing about geothermal is that it is available everywhere - some places like Iceland it is very close to the surface but it is available everywhere if you drill deep enough. So yes, SE Asia and South America will embrace EV - China makes a large percentage of the world’s solar panels and wind turbines already so don’t be surprised when they leave those countries clinging to outdated technology behind - people still use the horse and cart, but more as a novelty than a serious means of transport. Europe is moving onward to embrace the change - America’s new president is committed to spending very large sums of money on green technology - SE Asia and South America will be coming along as well.

In Norway where Im from the governments goal is that all new cars sold from 2025 should be electric or hydrogen fueled.
In October 2020 the proportion of electric cars among cars sold brand new was already 61,5 %.

That's remarkable. I was last in Norway around 2008, and I don't remember seeing any electric cars at all. (Probably there were a few here and there, but I was trying to pay attention to all those smooth, curvaceous roads.) I guess a lot of the impetus has been high taxes on non-electric cars, along with fuel. Still remarkable.

No in 2008 it probably wasnt many electric cars here...

Yep - very little import fees and taxes on electric cars compared to conventional cars and also electric cars can drive in the bus and taxi lanes which normal cars cant. A huge advantage in rush hours that is! And also much less tolls on toll roads. So there are huge incentives for the transition to electric cars here in Norway.

As Jay said, power generation is fast moving away from fossil fuels. Britain operated for 60% of the year 2020 to date without coal fired power. Yes, EVs transfer pollution from the exhaust pipe to the power station but it's a lot more efficient (like 70% rather than 30%) plus there is a lot more green/renewable power these days. For cities I have to admit it's a no-brainer and I can see in the not too distant future in developed countries many cities will become EV-only zones, by law or by heavy tolls. This will give us problems as overlanders who will need petrol powered flexibility, but it's something we're just going to have to get used to I feel.

As for the Millennial tree huggers and Thunbergs of this world, given that our generation has basically plundered the world's fossil fuel resources, melted the ice caps, deforested most of the Amazon and set in motion a set of climate change events that will affect the world for the next century, I think they have the right to be concerned.

The conversion from horse and buggy to ICE started slow--no auto dealers, no mechanics, no fueling stations, no good roads. Once those began to develop, horses became something almost never seen in towns, and not used in serious agriculture for the first time in recorded history. Most people in the US do not commute more than 40 miles a day, few travel 20 miles one way to shop. A couple of years ago the HU calendar had a picture on a lady biker showing her bike to a young child next to a group of yurts. If you looked carefully, there was an electric wire running to the yurts. Sorry, but getting an ICE bike/car fixed will soon be as easy as getting your buggy fixed. Post from an old, very not up to date on the virtual world, geezer.

IMO electrics is dead end route, most likely hydrogen will win in long run but for now I enjoy my diesel car and gasoline motorcycle. What politics say never was right and this time is no different.

There will also be a £30 billion shortfall in fuel duty.

So they're intending on covering that with a road toll system..

And that will be determined by having EVERY vehicle compulsorily fitted with a GPS/engine management tracker. Along with that will probably come compulsory dash cams.

Which means all fun will be totally banned too.
Insurance companies will blacklist you for wiping your nose.

At least I'll have memories of travel freedom.