Travel 2022?
 

In light of the war in Ukraine and the ramifications it is having and may have as it continues, the question I wish to have opinions on is both trivial and selfish: Is it wise to plan travel in Europe (including Turkey) this year?

Should the conflict spread into western Europe the question becomes immaterial. If it continues within the present boundaries of Ukraine, will travel become prohibitively expensive with ferry, fuel and food costs spiralling upwards combined with huge domestic increases for the same commodities?

Is it morally correct to travel (i.e. have a holiday) with a major war inflicting untold suffering on so many people so close to our own country? Has it caused anyone to postpone or cancel their own plans for travel in Europe this year?

I don´t think it will spread out of Ukraine.
I have made travel plans for may this year and I don´t cancel them. Sure things will get more expensive, especially fuel, but I don´t think anything else will affect my trip.
I feel sorry for the people living in a warzone and for the refugees but the countries in Europe will take care of them. The situation of those good people will not get worse nor better if you and I stop traveling. Sorry but I can´t change the world and I can´t save everyone.

I agree with Rognv. Some parts of the world will be undesirable or impossible to travel to in 2022 due to war or covid. Outside of that, do your homework and spread the joy.

I kinda get where u r coming from but......turning that on its head is is morally defenceable to ride around on a bike that costs 10 20 30 times more then people's annual salary Or to own a phone that costs so much it could feed a village for weeks.......and so it goes on . You won't change mankind on ur own but u can change some lives ,so if u don't do it already sponsor a child , it's a start . Slightly off topic there..

It feels wrong to do a lot if things in life.
People suffer all the time. But then should I be selfish or sit at home waiting for the world to be just right.
My time is running out and why should I postpone my plans again. Covid pffh, now war sorry but I'm going no matter what.

I have recently struggled with much the same questions, for a couple of reasons.

Yes of course the war in Ukraine, bloody awful and the west should squeeze Putin as much as possible and support the Ukrainians using all best possible methods and deals.

One of my main/best employee's may be leaving us due to illness, the terminal kind, and as health is way more important than money, I have told him to do what ever he has to do.......period, full stop.

My best friend just got hammered with divorce proceedings, a couple I have known for 27 years and him personally for almost 50! , If im not here (in town) how can I help him ?

My father had a stroke end of 2019, I have seem him go down hill since then,how do I help my mom if I am away?

There are 100's of additional reasons similar or worse than those listed here,

But I also agree that I cant keep postponing everything I want to do for exactly the same reasons posted above,it may never be the perfect time.And no one is getting any younger.

I "leave" for 30 days in a couple of weeks, and I can tell you I have not slept well for the last 2 weeks because of all these things jamming up my head, but I also realise I am at this point almost useless due to burn out and my patience level is dropping on a daily basis .

My "good thought" is ,when I come back I am hoping to be a "new"(newer?) person,a better employer,a better husband, a better father, a better son and a better friend. That what I will see through my own eye's and experiences will have played a part in that.

Maybe Im talking total rubbish, but if there is no point, then there is no point in going.

Cheers,

Paulo

If things become *prohibitively* expensive - i.e. outside of your travel budget - then of course, don't travel. However, the main problem with commodities is that it will hit poorer countries harder. We in the West can afford to pay double what we now pay for a loaf of bread because the wheat price has skyrocketed; there are people in the world who cannot.

But that does not affect your Eurotrip. If anything, if you're worried about the financial effect on the Balkans or Turkey... go travel there and spend your money there as a tourist.

Back in the day, I cancelled my travel plans to Japan because the great tsunami happened a few months before I was due to go there - and the country was still dealing with consequences. At that time, I did not want to use up resources for my hospitality that would be needed by locals.

On the other hand, my travel plans were not affected by the Syrian war. So... as long as you're traveling through areas that have not been affected directly and are not the immediate refugee staging areas, what moral difference is there between a war nearby and a war far away? Once again, the moral argument might be "go and spend your money in troubled economies".

In tangentially related matters - one pretty good way of direct support to people immediately affected by the Russian invasion has been to book AirBnBs in Kyiv, Kharkiv, Odessa etc., and just leaving a note that you're not actually coming - you're just donating the money to the apartment owner. Apparently it's been a disproportionately positive thing.

I'd say it has already spread out of ukraine with 2 million refugees and 5-6.5 million expected.. with hate crimes, petty crime, overall load on neighboring countries and skyrocketing fuel prices.

Not that it is unadvisable to travel but at least you need to be mindful of environment and if not stay out of countries bordering ukraine at least avoid big cities and choose your routes carefully.

I have to wonder, in the cases of those who feel that it's morally inappropriate to take a holiday during a "major war", whether they refrained from taking holidays during other wars, The only period in my lifetime during which there was no major war going on was in 1954. There were wars in which many thousands lost their lives and many more were displaced in every year since 1950 until today.

I'm planning trip to southern Europe and don't expect problems.
I think conflict will end till summer.

A friend and I were planning to go to Sicily this summer. Sure, Sicily is a long ways from Ukraine, but I figure with millions of refugees fleeing the war, there could be issues in the rest of Europe with supply chain, delays at the airport, etc.

Maybe I'm worrying too much, but I've suggested to her that there are plenty of other interesting places in the world to visit. We're now looking at going to Peru, and maybe Sicily will be next year.

I can't see any reason to defer travel in western Europe due to the Ukrainian conflict. Common sense suggests that it would be wise to avoid areas that border Ukraine. Turkey seems to be doing their best to remain neutral in this conflict and facilitate meetings between the combatants, so I don't see any war-related reason to avoid Turkey.
Not likely. Obviously fuel will be more expensive. Beyond that, I don't expect any significant increases in other costs.
Major wars have been inflicting untold suffering on many people elsewhere in the world on an almost continuous basis. For example, Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen, South Sudan, etc... I could go on. Did any of those wars cause you to ask the same question of yourself? If not, you might want to ask yourself why not, and why you consider the Ukrainian war to be worthy of moral consideration, but not all the other wars I mentioned.

Travel ? Yes: with open eyes and humility
 

This is my personal view.
And not stated as the "truth" . Or the correct view.
If you do not agree, that is fine with me. We all are free to think what we want.


If you travel in countries with bad conditions, with open eyes you can learn a lot. You begin to understand, and maybe start to support those that suffer. Or at least, you can describe what you see to others. In blogs, books, videos...

People riding bikes has the opportunity to leave the tourist paths and to get out to see the reality. And often do so. This is one major reason to travel by bike.

Many countries build up tourist areas. Resorts. Where you can live with all inclusive and see nothing of the real country. But with a bike, you don't go there.

E.g travelling South America with open eyes, can have a large impact on you. When you see the conditions people live under. And what US and western world have done/are doing. And the difference between gated communities and poor villages. Or the "favelas".... If you support it or see it as a problem... It is not a discussion to have here. But to see the reality is always good.

Examples of this are already from the trip of Ernesto Guevara and Alberto Granada did from 1952. That opened the eyes of Ernesto. And changed him a lot. (I recommend reading both books they wrote. And the movie. Whatever your opinion about Che is. Great travels stories.)

Another late example is Itchy Boot's videos from Bolivian and Nicaraguan mines. And what people have to do to survive.

I participated in a guided MC tour of Nepal. With a local guide. That spend two weeks to show us the country, describe the culture, the history, the nature, the religion. A two eek long journey with education. We really got into the normal life of people in Nepal. A learned a lot. (Big difference to just ride a bike from A to B.)

I do not see how sitting at home in our western world and avoid traveling, would benefit these people. (The opposite is true, If you spend your money in the "correct" way. You support these people)

But you can't travel in a 4x4 big jeep and look out the window. On a motorcycle or bicycle you can make yourself vulnerable. And get into the real life. And not just watch it.

Keep on travel. Keep your eyes open.
But a warning: It might have a large impact on you.
And tell what you see.

Even riding around in Europe (for us Europeans) is very exciting.
You do not have to go far to get adventures and see a lot.

Vaya Con Dios

It was my conclusion a while ago, that we have to pay a higher price, than later we want to start an extended trip in our lifespan. Because of career, income, pension saving and family planning, but too because we are more integrated/embedded in our environment.

That we may have got an important role in our family, taking care on parents, are more important to upgrowing kids (own or family related), friends who need backup - that is too an factor.

My mom has lung cancer in the end stage, did loss a leg because of spreading, did got a stroke last week - yeah- it is not a good timeframe to even consider classic 14 days holidays, for myself.

A war, nearby or far - is truely not the point to consider, as Alanymarce noticed, there was not many short timeframes in the past, where "no war" was on our world.

Yes, the fuel prices are higher at 2022, probably too everything else a bit because of inflation - but if you situation allows travelling - do it. You dont know - what will keep you at home in the future.

I can actually get a lot of strenght out of my already done trips, I dont "have to" think I have missed something in my live, what helps me currently to be patient.

Dont look at your journey`s as "yolo", but you should feed your dreams if they lead you on the road.

Surfy

There are places where you should never go--active war zones. There are places where, unless you are there to help, you should avoid--famine area, dreaded disease zone. Other than that, its your choice. Spending time and money may actually help the locals.

To enter war zones, was till now not topic here in the thread "travel 2022"...

Time and cash, I`m not shure if one or both "help" in such situations.

If I look to syria, lybia or irak as example - it seems like too "a lot of" cash - and a "lot of time" dont lead to "the end" of military interactions. Will also not help in the ukraine...

Surfy

In case that circumstances of the war could change suddenly and effect countries who share landborders with Ukraine and of course countries who have a land border with Russia it could be wise to be careful and attentive if you want traveling there.

In the moment I don`t believe that these countries will be drawn into a active war zone but refugees, higher security measures and economcial impacts e.g. fuel shortage can change a travel situation over night.

(Only as an example:in Germany people started hoarding toilet papers in the beginning of the pandemic and 2 weeks after war start all kinds of oils for cooking, flour, dry yeast, rice and noodles are permantly sold out. Ok, its totally stupid but an example of a sudden awakening of social fears which do appear in a society who is used to buy everything at any time)

Embee asked if it was good to travel/take a vacation during this time of trouble. IMO, war zones(anywhere) are a no go. Places with a low economic level are helped when tourists with gobs of cash(from their view), looking for non First World sights, come and gawk.

Since the start of January I've been travelling by bike in Spain and Portugal. It's warmer here at the moment than in my adopted home country of Bulgaria. Things are warming up now though, so will return there next month.

I've one definite travel commitment this year and a few "cunning plans", money, C19 restrictions and visas dependent. I know whatever "plan" I have now will be different when the time comes :D

Last year I travelled in Turkey and multiple European countries (most non EU travel was tricky because of C19. Within non-UK Europe, land based travel was very easy with an EU passport).

Over many years I've travelled by motorcycle in many countries, worldwide. It's what I do.

I don't like being in the line of fire, so will bear this mind when planning possibly future trips :mchappy:

In my view it's easy to talk your way out of trips when you watch/read too much hyperbole-infused "news" and especially social media chatter.

This seems about right to me. If there's anything we should have learned during the past couple of years (in the case of US residents like me, since the 2016 presidential election) it's that advance planning is subject to stuff we can't even imagine ahead of time.

On a small scale this was always true, and flexible responses were always a necessary ingredient in any sort of adventurous travel (i.e., if there are brushfire wars to the left, I alter plans and head to the right instead). But on this larger scale.... If you'd told me the US/Canada border--one of the friendliest in the world for people with my passport, ethnicity and skin color--would abruptly shut down for over a year I'd have written you off entirely. But my mother's (Canadian) ashes have been sitting in a drawer for two years, waiting for an opportunity for far-flung family to gather and dispose of them properly.

The real problem is not that the recent (and current) border closures might continue or expand. The problem is that events beyond our ability to realistically imagine them may easily occur--not more of the same, but something new added to the mix. A renewed cold war? Extended closure of Chinese borders (If two years is possible, why not five? Ten? They've done it before.)? Religious and ethnic violence expanding from the Sahel into the tropical zones of East or West Africa? Widespread civil insurrection in, say, my country or yours?

Or maybe just another pandemic--one with higher mortality, or which targets younger people?

I've continued to plan, of course. But the sort of specific, long-term planning I used to do, in which I adjusted for minor disruptions on the fly, has turned out to be surprisingly unrealistic. Instead: keeping it loose, with backups (and backups for backups) and the sense that it all might devolve into local road-tripping in relative isolation.

Ok, I'll quit before I descend into maudlin meanderings. Just trying to puzzle my way through, as one does.

Mark

Wow. A genuine first! Mark referring to a post of mine in a positive and productive way, rather than, yet again, scolding an utterance of mine in a surreptitious and school teacherly way.

Peace, well and truly, might have broken out. :clap:

Bright and Out!

That's pretty much what you said the previous time, too, Chris. My new theme song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAX5GgvS-8s

(insert smilie here)

There was a previous time?! My memory doesn't go that far back :D Is this an attempt at a HUBB brand relaunch with soft and fluffy super mods? (Sorry. It's the cynic in me coming out. :helpsmilie: )

https://youtu.be/40YzTpxrdZQ

well said, there is so much of propaganda from both sides it's hard to believe in anything these days.

Yep. Now, if I want to travel somewhere, I often avoid the news and most social media/websites/fora except a few trusted travel related groups and then only take the advice/information of a few trusted or recommended people or my own private contacts onboard, rather than the masses who while generally well meaning, know nothing and are generally only pedalling random hearsay and innuendo.

My own ethics decide if I wish to try to visit countries with dubious leaders/ "foreign policy initiatives". The "leader"/ "government" :D of the country of which I hold a passport are so morally bankrupt, it's tricky for me to cast aspersions over other countries. I prefer to meet the regular people and make my own opinion of them. And, of course, I prefer mountains, twisty and dirt roads, warm and dry weather, a bit of culture and to avoid the usual tourist haunts.

There is an easy solution for the "propaganda" problem, and that is to read what is published in countries on each side of a conflict or ideological position.

For example, in the context of the current Ukrainian war, I read what is published in the Times of London and the Washington Post, but I also read what is published in Pravda.ru and RT.ru (importantly, I go to the original Russian language website, and use Google to do the translation, I don't go to the English language sites of these two because the English language content they publish is aimed at a different audience than their native language content).

I then compare the content and try to draw my own conclusions. The conclusions I draw are not always accurate on a "very short term" basis (one daily news story to another), but they do seem pretty solid when a longer term comparison (weeks) is made.

As for touring in 2022 - I live in Canada, but I'm going over to Europe next week to do a month's worth of riding. I plan to visit France, Spain, and Portugal. I expect things will be pretty normal in those countries, the French election, COVID and high gas prices notwithstanding.

Michael

So your way to compare content is the way to find out what is Propaganda and what isn`t?

Sorry, makes me grin...

If you want a better translation for foreign textes you should switch for a try to DeepL.

Google uses a rule and statistical based translation process while DeepL adds a artifical neural maschine based on AI to the translation process. Also DeepL doesn`t bother with a limit of 3900 signs as Google Translator does.

But a software programm cannot comprehend cultural or contextual nuances as well as termbases or customizations. This is also the reason why all major newspapers who offer bilingual context hire human translators. Which in general generates a more qualificated translation result from the native newspaper language than any kind of maschine translation can do today!

By my experience DeepL avoids more effective the problem that all online maschine translators have in common: poor phonetically translation of single words without reproducing the context!

https://www.deepl.com/translator

I do pretty similar, with the more reputable sections of the UK press, Reuters and RT. The trouble with this is you end up not knowing what to believe, and making a judgement comes down to your own viewpoint. No doubt this is the object of the exercise with competing propaganda arms, but I'd like to think we as travellers have more open minds than the average consumer purely of their own mass media domestic news outlets.

As for how it influences travel plans? Well, there were plenty of war zones round the world before 2022, and plenty of places so racked by disaster or poverty that your welcome would been as a rolling cash machine. Information is the key, whether from media, dedicated websites or fellow travellers.

The world will always have conflicts and suffering like pandemics, natural calamities and more.Life is short so make most of it.I feel it is not at all selfish, it's just that the thought came to your mind proves that you are not selfish.Yes, travel expense will definitely shoot up and this his how the economics work.Go ahead and travel.