to flag or not to flag
 

I have recently stickered my bike front and back with my country flag, GB in my case. Would have been Anglo/Scot but half of two flags looked crap..................

Anyway I suddenly thought maybe it's not such a good Idea .....or is it? Now I don't know :confused1:

Anyone think of any reason it would not be good to do it?? There are without doubt a few places one might wish to keep a low profile...........North Korea

I tie a flag to the mirror stem - to the side I'm supposed to ride on. If it becomes obvious that it is not liked then I can untie it. A sticker you'd have to cover up.

I have a flag, GB again, on my number plate where the EU flag is supposed to be. It has never given a problem but has been a conversation starter on a few occasions which is good.

Hi,

If i would be US resident i would NOT flag my bike. Because of their presidents war politic they are not wellcome in most of the arabic countrys anymore. For Sudan etc US residents have to pay 4x the price of European Tourists etc.
Also if it comes to police controls i prefere not to be recognized as a rich tourist too easy. Of course therefore you also have to ride a local bike not a big foreign machine. Still a Angola flag might be good in Africa.

What about using different flags for different countrys? Allways the one from countrys that people like HAHA

These days i thing about flaging my bike from the top with red cross or "PRESS" to prefent being shot from one of these US Drones while visiting arabic countrys. Never found terorists there but only very friendly people...

Tobi

depends how nationalistic you want to appear. Its a very individual thing. But my thoughts on flag waving are:

Whether you like it or not, waving your flag associates you with what foreigners perceive as your country's image. That image comes usually either via stereotypes or via your country's foreign policies. If you don't want to be associated with those, then don't wave your flag at foreigners.

Many people, when on the road, begin to feel more kinship for the people they meet along the way than they were expecting ... thus feel more like a citizen of the world during the trip than before the trip. In which case they feel less nationalistic than when they set out.

The more nationalist you appear, the more you potentially restrict interactions with other nationalities. In an extreme case, if you leave the UK with your bike painted 100% in the union jack, you are effectively saying I feel powerful kinship with British people, so therefore prefer interactions with British people to all others. That may attract other British people when you are on the road, but may put off other nationalities from talking with you. If you want to interact with locals and other travellers on an equal basis, then your nationality is irrelevant. Its merely a talking point in conversation, similar to "are you married" or "do you have kids". You don't put those details on the side of your bike, so why put your nationality?

Personally, I find overt nationalism (which includes patriotism) pretty off-putting. I enjoy travelling with different nationalities (over the years have adventure toured with Australians, Brits (English and Scots), Americans, Austrians, Poles, Germans, Russians, Norwegians and Dutch) and do not treat them any differently that riders of my own nationality. I dont feel people who hold the same passport as me are superior or exceptional. I find the idea of loving a country bizarre - very tribal. Its a lump of land with a dotted line around it. Its just as bizarre (or as irrational) to me, as someone loving their street, and putting the name of their street on their bike. Therefore, to me, there is no point to nationalism / patriotism. They are just modern day names for a very primitive tribalism.

I have travelled with flags and stickers in the past, but didn't really find they added any value (the first question you are inevitably asked by locals or other bike travellers is "where are you from?" whether or not you have a flag or flag sticker - i.e. it isnt the flag that creates a talking point, nationality is always going to be a talking point anyway in remote foreign lands). Between not believing in flag waving, and finding no advantage to flags, I now don't do flags / stickers.

Im not sure I agree with your point about a Union Flag themed bike. But this is only because I a saw a lady this very afternoon dressed head to toe in union flag leggins, t shirt, bag ect, and I have seen across all of Asia, men and women wearing it on T shirts ect. I think in a semiotic sense that the Union flag is not really seen in the same patriotic way we see it in the UK but as more of a stylish colour scheme.
Therefore i would argue that you could ride across alot of the world looking like Austin Powers on a red white and blue Triumph and you would probably still be asked 'where are you from' pretty frequently.

I know thats not the point but anyway...


With regards to stickering your bike, I dont think it it will make the slightest bit of difference. Ive had people in Pakistan think im American and still welcomed me with open arms. The same thing has happened to my Candian girlfriend in Vietnam!

Some people have spoke of stickering their bike so that they are not confused with Americans, which whilst at first seems logical, is actualy quite offensive to Americans dont you think?

The reason I havent done it? I think it looks rubbish, thats all realy.

Oh the woman I saw in the Union flag outfit was in Tblisi, by the way.

The union flag seems to feature regularly on the clothing of fashionable young people in SE Asia as well, I wonder if they have a clue where it comes from.

What happens to the Union Flag if Scotland wants out?

Is there a backup flag thought out?

St George will always be the flag ;)

Being identified with my country does not worry me. Being identified with my government does .. not many people agree with all their countries government policies .. (some of them I hate :censored:).

I don't see being identified as nonUS as offensive to US people.. why should they?

In Africa being identified as non South African can be beneficial. Still some left over from Apartheid... don't think many South Africans would be offended by the correct identity, they would be concerned by the left over feelings ...

--------------------
The reality is we are all individuals, but carry some bias based on our upbringing and place of residence. As tourist we may not be aware of local laws and customs. So some form of identification may help others understand some of our (unusual) actions. :blushing:

You said it yourself, 'not many people agree with all of there governments polices', surely this works two ways?

I find flying a flag for the purpose of distinguishing yourself from a country that you find, or think others will find, distasteful a bit on the obtuse side. In fact its totally arrogant.

Pretty much all the 'anti-american' attitudes I have experienced have come from 'westerners' and is simply prejudice masquerading as liberalism. When I had to work in close quarters with some Americans for a few weeks I found them nothing but open minded, charming and funny.


Also Mark, I've wondered that too... although it has been part of fashion since the late 50's, maybe it isnt a surprise it can loose it meaning in some places. I also saw a young lad in Nepal wearing a t-shirt with a picture (cant remember what of) and the caption below it reading 'sample text'. I really enjoyed that.

This is an interesting thread. I have also thought about this. I have a Union flag sticker on the front of my bike. I take it off when I'm in the UK but on my travels it has always been welcomed. Did consider covering it up in Zimbabwe but didn't and it wasn't a problem.

Strange that I should take it off in the Uk I know but I don't need to advertise my nationality and ( I know this is wrong) I don't want to appear too patriotic.

Well, I just finished my RTW trip in April this year and had the Aussie flag on a pole at the rear for 95% of it

I don't always agree with my governments policies but love my country

As I travelled solo, it became a talking point, and as I was sticking each visited countries flag on the bike as I went, the people I met in those countries welcomed me openly

I certainly was aware of which countries were not happy with Oz and stayed away from them to avoid issues

LOL, and here I am contemplating going without a small sticker or at least get the smallest possible sticker. You went with a waving flag.

I think putting any national flag on your vehicle makes you a target.
Most people are intelligent enough to distinguish between a country and its government, but a few are not, and they may take their prejudices out on you or your ride.

I think if one rides fast in a zigzag patern the bullets will miss so not over worried.

sent with tapatalk because i made it work!

Maybe on the next flag they will include the duchy of Cornwall's flag? Now that Westmnster seem to have disbanded our Stannary Parliament.

I believe it is better to travel inconspicuously as possible.
The reason is as follows, people do not notice things unless they have a particular interest in them. For instance, when my daughter took up horse riding, we started seeing horses everywhere. Before we were oblivious to them.
An unmarked bike with travelling gear will only attract interest/be noticed by bikers or those interested in talking to strangers. People you probably would like to meet. A bike bedecked with riches would attract someone interested in the riches. similarly a bike or car sporting a national flag would only be of interest in someone who had a reason to be interested in someone of that nationality. It might be friendly, it might not. Mostly it does not matter, but it could trigger some opportunistic action. Without the flag you disable the nationality interest.

I have had many conversations for one reason or another, all of them pleasant during my travels. Partly because I am travelling, partly because of my bike (currently an Enfield) and many other reasons.

I prefer to tread softly and not mark the rice paper :)

Probably best to lose the flag in that case - all that zigzagging plays havoc with the fuel consumption. :gun_bandana: :scooter:

Due to the UK becoming a 'Mickey Mouse' country, I would vote for this flag.

The reason I'm contemplating having a small one even if I prefer none at all, is that you either have to have a europlate (showing the country code) or a sticker with the country while driving around in Europe. I'm thinking that perhaps other countries here and there have the same sort of rules. I guess I could remove a sticker easily and carry a couple to stick on if stopped and asked for it.

I doubt it would be a drama, I really do.

Ive managed to get to Georgia so far on a Nepali number plate. Thats a red square with script similar to hindi on it which is pretty much illegible to everyone outside southern Asia, and it hasnt been questioned once, apart from the occasional confused customs agents and overlanders.
A friend of mine has rode to Thailand from the UK on a vintage bike, so it has the black and silver number plates (looks totally bad-ass) and again, i dont belive there was a problem.

Interestingly i think UK numberplates are the only country who now have different colours on the front and back.

Although by all means take some stickers but I bet they will end up more useful as gifts for when somone tries to give you, 3 water melons, 2 bottles of vodka, 17 rolls of bread and a pocketknife, and you dont know what to do or say.

I have a Union Flag helmet because I like the "Austin Powers" look.

My covering of the EU flag on my number plate with a GB and Union flag is a political statement. I would have taken anything that removed the EU one and was still roughly legal, the GB/Flag was just available and doesn't seem to worry anyone.

I really doubt anyone will notice who wouldn't have noticed a foreign vehicle anyway.

My panniers display the flags of the countries I've visited that would sell me a sticker, plus pictures I took along the way. The pictures get more comments.

Looks like this https://picasaweb.google.com/1044429...47289/Panniers#

Andy

It remains a human trait
 

Post number 3 in this thread contains the same point:-
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...ar-among-71573

Regarding the flag of the UK, it has evolved and it will do again, if necessary - I have a mini-version of the union flag as it was during the days of the American wars of Independance, and it does not include Northern Ireland, but I haven't researched when that flag was added.

Heraldry has the rules to deal with all such changes.

I personally like the monochrome version of the UK flag:

http://davida.co.uk/media/pix/80-Complex/80512JET.jpg

Or the Australian red ensign:
http://images.smh.com.au/2010/01/18/...sign-420x0.jpg



Hehe, well that is an excellent reason to carry a few for those moments alone.

And if that happens and we are presented with a new flag overnight, are we expected to switch allegiance overnight from the old flag to the new flag?

If yes, then how much allegiance does that imply we ever had to the old one? If that allegiance can be reallocated hook, line and sinker in a night? I mean could you do that with a wife, or a girlfriend? Surely if you could switch girlfriends in a night then it meant you were never really attached to the old one. (swingers excluded)

What happens to all the other countries whose flags contain the Union Flag ... Australia, New Zealand and probably dozens of others .... do they also change flags overnight if Scotland succeeds?

And we will need a new name for the flag ... The Union Flag is a name that represents the England - Scotland union.

I like to flag, not to tell people where I come from, but to tell where I don't come from....

http://actiontouring.com/pic/sides.jpg

Scotland
 

The official line is that there will be no change.

They combined England (red crusader cross on white) and Scotland (adds blue and St.Andrews cross) at the Act of Union. Wales was never represented but Ireland (red diagonal cross) was added in 1803. Ireland was never modified or removed when Ulster and the Republic were split in 1922. The Irish Tricolour and Ulster Flag did change though. No particular logic and if they removed Scotland and added Cornwall you could also get requests for a Yorkshire Rose, Westminster Portcullis, Welsh Dragon, Leeks, feathers, Sony logo and goodness knows what else to go on.

I imagine Scotland would just not use it which would make sense.

Andy

Yep, I wish I had something better to give than my email adress and a smile...

I have a adv sticker with a Saltire below it on my homemade wind screen and folk always look at it,( I think cause its crap though)

Twenty years ago we had a flag on the bike and it served us well. I wouldn't dream of having one these days - which is sad.

I am hip to that cause.

bier

By way of further information ... A few years back, I was travelling thru Siberia with Tony P, and my steed wore a UK flag sticker on the forequarter of the bike. The theory I had was that it would prevent me having to answer the tiring and repetitive "where are you from?" question. It was a theory which was totally and utterly disproved (about 500 times out of 500), two ways.

Firstly I was constantly still asked "where are you from" as an opening question.

Secondly, of the handful of people who did notice the flag was a flag, the MAJORITY asked me if it was the american flag.

I would have thought the UK flag was at worst, the second most identifiable flag in the world. As for something more obscure, such as an Australian or NZ flag, you have approx zero chance anyone in Siberia or Mongolia is going to recognise it.

Chances are, in remote Africa or Mongolia, your flag will almost surely not mean anything at all to your target audience.

Great with the sarcasm. I never said I'd give a sticker instead of a smile and my email addy. I was saying it was something easy to carry and it sort of have a dual purpose. I can please an EU policeman or the like, and I can give them away if I think it can make someone a little happier.

I like flags for the symbolism they represent.

I have a New Zealand badge on the rear of the RH-side pannier representing the fact that I'm riding a NZ-registered machine; and a silver fern, a widely recognised Kiwi symbol on the windshield spoiler.

A mini NZ flag and the Saint Piran's Cross (the Cornish flag - my home county) on the top edge of the side cowls .. representing the beginning and end of this trip; and

Always a flag or emblem of the particular country in which I'm travelling, positioned at the most forward leading part of the bike's bodywork, out of courtesy, and in recognition to the nation concerned for allowing me free and unfettered passage around their homeland. Kind of copying the example of when a ship berths in a foreign port and the captain flies the host country's national flag out of respect and politeness. SEE HERE

.

I like how keith does it but he & Ellen are super organized!

The CAA sent us a gigantic USA sticker and told us to put it on - which we didnt. We've got a few random stickers, some Asian flags, some for fellow bikers...but we werent sure how the license plate that says Washington DC would be received. Turns out universally well. We always told everyone we are American and were greeted warmly. Most people can separate governments from the people who are interested enough to visit them and experience their culture;) only ranting we got was from Swedes for the USA not being liberal enough. I totally agree that people should carry spare stickers. We could've made so many border guards and vegetable donors happy!

Mate, I wasnt being sarcy, I was being serious!

The right to bear Arms, or fly a flag
 

College of Arms - College of Arms

"The College of Arms is the official heraldic authority for England, Wales, Northern Ireland and much of the Commonwealth including Australia and New Zealand" (but not for Scotland).

I have country flag on both panniers. I think who have flag on bikes a bit nationalist or proud of his nation(ality).

On the other hand, having a US or UK flag on the bike not look a good idea nowadays in some countries, especially North Africa and Middle East....

Oh, in that case I'm truly sorry :)

stickies
 

Apart from the excellent HU reflective roundals:thumbup1: I also have this rather obscure country sticker on my pannier. Always starts a conversation!

Attachment 10419

Sure enough, here's the conversation
 

I did think I would mention that particular flag of the Basque nationalists as a model of what the UK flag will look like when/if Scotland departs: it would have less colours of course - a rather plain red and white, but the 3 lions of England could be included in the new design, in the fly or the hoist, rather as the flag of Georgia tends to include additional crosses of St George in addition to the main cross.
Such heraldic devices could be quite "attractive"; the 3 lions could be printed in a fetching shade of blue, as used by the England cricket team that thrashed the Ozzies in the ashes test series, and that would reduce the overall blue tone of the current design.

On the other hand, maybe Scotland will remain in the Union.

It's all about symbolism
 

This tendency is flourishing; back in 1999 I met and talked with a Breton guy who was aiming to start a Breton language radio station, in Britanny naturally.
We had a decent conversation about the relationship of Britanny to Cornwall, including the fact that their flags use the same colours.

Now, a lot of the English counties have their own design of flag, even if they didn't have one previously, and some of the counties are selling the concept of "annual county days", a bit like "fathers day" or "mothers day" and similar marketing hype.

Buy shares in flag manufacturers??
 

The politicians would say that right now, but later next year ...........?

I can't see many English accepting a flag that includes a lot of blue Saltire if the vote goes for independance for Scotland.
IMO, the flag would have to change, and quickly.

I dunno Dave? It’s a bit different down here. The St Piran’s (Cornish) flag has probably been around for centuries*. You see it flown everywhere in these parts. Moreover, it seems that nearly every other Cornish-registered vehicle has the flag stuck on its rear bumper or boot lid! .. and it’s been that way for as long as I can remember.

I take your point about the Breton flag; a black & white negative of the St Pirans. I didn’t know about that (should’ve known I s’pose).

Thanks

*Source: Wikipedia

.

Excellent point. If you have a flag that the people it is supposed to represent dislike or dont want to represented by that flag, its a major problem. If the remainder of the UK in general, after a Scottish independence vote, no longer chooses to acknowledge the old flag, then it no longer represents them or their interests.

I don`t had put the swiss flag on the car, to avoid that the locals think we are from the red cross or an doctor :innocent:

But after the trip we did this:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-icUpZvIcMg...schriftung.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-n7mEn5b92c...tung-Seite.jpg

We hope that they don't look that surprised when we drive through checkpoint just saying "diplomatic" :innocent: Now we wait for the timeframe for the next trip (what is very hard)...

Surfy

Flags are extremely symbolic
 

Sure thing.
Throughout history, peoples have rallied to flags, soldiers have fought, and died, to defend the colours, etc etc.

In demonstrations around the world flags are burnt in order to make a statement, which is as good a reason as any for travellers to be aware of what it is that they are displaying.
There are other symbols of course, such as music; here in Britain, the authorities used to ban the playing of bagpipes (I think they were considered to be a weapon) and the wearing of the kilt.

It's all about the Celts
 

Thanks for the Wiki link - as you say, about half way down that article it explains what my Breton fellow was telling me all those years ago. I am not clear how that earlier Arms became the current Breton flag which is very different although it retains the basic colours.
I think he was hoping that his radio broadcasts in the Breton dialect would be heard across the channel in Cornwall, but that was before the internet, and associated digital broadcasting, had developed to their current state of pervasiveness.

How about this for a "cut and paste mess":-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Co...ic_nations.svg
That brings Galicia into the frame.

For a new England flag, we could bring back the Fleur de Lys (from earlier royal standards) to be displayed along with the 3 lions passant (as displayed on the England football teams as well as in cricket) so that our claims on parts of the territory of modern day France are not forgotten. :innocent:

I flagged front and back withUJ. Was asked many times if i was American:confused:

sent with tapatalk.

exactly ... kinda makes it a waste of time doesnt it.

As I mentioned earlier ... I am shocked how unknown the Union Flag really is in the wider world.

M8, I was in northern Montana in a line in a Post Office, dressed to the max in my riding gear and carrying my helmet. The only bike in the car park was mine(and it had the Aussie flag).

She asked me, was that my bike (yes), and was I Canadian?????????

I dropped my jaw and told her in no uncertain words, that no, I am an Aussie, and if she really has no idea of the flag of her northern neighbor, then maybe she needs to expand her local knowledge ;)

Cheers
TS

Like mentioned before, it all depends on what nationality you are, how you like it and if you want to show it (off) or not.

Last trip (this year) we didn't had any flag on the bikes, had a Belgian one on my chest on my vest but like Colebatch said, everybody asks you anyway where you're from. If they try to guess we are always germans, so doh

Next trip (next year) we'll try to take a flag, but not from where we are but where we go, as we will leave our home to go and live abroad and in a tribute to our new home we'll take that flag. (but first making a few detours around the world) And that will also be interesting as I'm pretty sure almost nobody will know from where it is so it will start conversations...

http://www.theflagshop.co.uk/ekmps/s...lag-6609-p.jpg

If I would be US or UK I personally wouldn't show it, certainly not in some parts of the world. But then I don't know if it's a good idea to show the Belgian flag in DRC either... ;-)

Confusion is rife regardless.

People in southern England will ask if my white rose with YORKSHIRE written underneath is from Lancashire (theirs is red). Maybe now they've dug Dirty Dick out from under that carpark in Leicester I'll get this less but I doubt it.

If you feel the urge to learn basic Scouse ask the owner of a Liverpool shirt if he likes Manchester United (both red).

New Zealanders love that their red stars get confused with the Australian white ones.

You either want those conversations and wear the badge or don't IMHO.

Andy

I personally wouldn't worry about what flag you display or not. In the places you visit the locals, if they "get your country wrong", they're either uneducated/ stupid/ just want to start a conversation (ideally the first or 3rd option) that whatever stickers you display make no difference.

In Ethiopia they thought I was French, in South America: German and in the US: Australian (all three non Engish speaking regions...:D), despite a union flag and a GB sticker on the bike.

If someone wants to do you harm, whatever sticker/no sticker will not make the slightest bit of difference. If AQ are going to kidnap you in Mali, then having a UK/US/Israeli passport will be very hazardous. Think of the poor Edwin Dyer who was in an Austrian tour group, spoke Austrian-German but carried a UK passport.

I just cracked the following route this year with a Union jack on the Left side of my fuel tank, a union jack and GB sticker on the right side of my fuel tank and on my rear number plate instead of the "EU" logo i had a small union jack

1-England
2-France
3-Belgium
4-Luxembourg
5-France
6-Germany
7-Czech Republic
8-Slovakia (Tatras mountains)
9-Poland
10-Ukraine (Carpathian mountains)
11-Romania (Carpathian mountains)
12-Republic of Moldova
13-Pridnestrovian Moldavian Republic (PMR)
14-Ukraine
15-Russia

Russian Caucasus Republics
16-The Republic of Adygea
17-The Republic of North Ossetia
18-The Republic of Ingushetia
19-The Republic of Chechnya

20-Georgia
21-Kazakhstan
22-Kyrgyzstan
23-Tajikistan

The following Russian republics had these travel warnings (So dont belive most travel warnings you read and mainly follow local advice on current information/situations regarding areas you want to travel to and if it is safe to do so)

The Republic of Ingushetia
WARNING: Ingushtetia is presently a war zone is most emphatically NOT a tourist destination. Visitors are in fear of murders and kidnappings by government forces, high-profile crimes, periodic civil disorders and bombings. Travellers should consult to their embassy and request expert information before travelling to the region.


The Republic of Chechnya
WARNING Chechnya is most emphatically not a tourist destination and not safe for independent travel or sightseeing. Most foreign governments advise against non-essential travel. Those visiting for business, research, or international aid purposes should consult with their organization and seek expert guidance before planning a trip.



I agree with what Chris says "If someone wants to do you harm, whatever sticker/no sticker will not make the slightest bit of difference"

Once you leave Europe a over-lander stands out as a foreigner regardless of sticker or not.

I think people in general judge you for who you are when they talk to you, with the likes of me being from the UK i have a union jack on my bike but this is just to show where i have traveled from and does not mean i am putting it there because i agree to all my government's policies ect ect

I never had no issues with regards to the the stickers i had on and if anything putting the stickers on worked in my favor as it was a talking point and on numerous times i was invited back to peoples houses to stay over or for dinner. in Chechnya they saw i was from the UK due to my stickers and i even got invited to the famous mosque in the capital Grozny (largest in Europe)

Basically you have to ask your self this....... if you are afraid to put a flag of the country you from on your bike then should you really be travelling in that country in the first place??


Unless you are going to the likes of Afghanistan, Iraq, the areas in Syria (where the non Syrian "rebels" are operating), Somalia, Algeria, Libya and other such like countries which have some slight problems then maybe putting a flag is not such a good idea......

Below are pictures of my bike on my trip and also the famous mosque in the capital Grozny,Chechnya i was invited to

I dont know what all the fuss is about?
 

:mchappy:
BTW, in 3 years of travelling in Argentina I have never had a negative comment, on the contrary.

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/...psa7ca8562.jpg