Struggling with my second service
 

Hey all,

So this week I hit a bit of a stumbling block.

I bought an ex-showroom Honda CB500F. I bought it just after passing my license. I really want to go by bike to Africa, some years from now, and I thought I should learn how to be mechanically handy with the bike. I have changed my own tires, pegs, clutch, chain and sprockets. I did my 8,000 mile service myself just following the Haynes manual and using youtube.

The 16,000 mile service has been a real doozy! I managed to change the air filter, oil (but forgot the oil filter, first red flag), and the spark plugs which are not easy to get to at all!

I questioned my decision many times, but perservered until now the engine fault indicator is permanently on. Everything starts fine. Going back through the connectors and looking at removing the ignition coil assembly for a third time I realised I'm in no way equipped for this task. This is a complex machine! I'm very impressed with what it takes to maintain these vehicles.

Colour me humbled and a bit embarrassed about writing this. I definitely overestimated my abilities and underestimated the work.

I have got it booked in for a professional service. I'm happy to pay whatever they charge to look after this thing! Given the CB500X is similarly complex, and this was my intended bike for this trip, I guess field mechanics are out of the question unless I take a college course or something? Does it even matter? Maybe I'm overestimating the likelihood of needing to change an air filter in the middle of the sahara...

It's been a tough few days going through all of this and it has me doubting myself. I feel like I'm doing something wrong, maybe focusing on the wrong things. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Haynes manuals provide a step by step guide to pretty much any mechanical work you want to do on any given machine.
I have no mechanical training but many years ago, when money was tight, I took out the entire engine of my GL1000 in my parents front drive, fixed the alternator and put the engine back simply by following the step by step instructions in the manual - the bike started first time and 4 weeks later I rode it to Portugal and back. I’m not showing off just pointing out that - if I can you can.

Don’t be embarrassed about your lack of skills, you did the service so well done - it will probably be something simple. If it was me I’d ask on a Honda CB forum, I’m sure you’ll get lots of help. Don’t give up on the mechanics - I can pay for the major stuff now but I still do my own servicing and as I said “if I can, you can”.

Thanks Flipflop I had a look again this morning and you were right it was something simple. Definitely learning the limits of my patience with this. Glad to know it'll be worth it

I'm not sure Haynes would be my first choice of manual but if the alternative is nothing then yes, they're better than that. If you've managed to do the stuff you have already then you're well down the road, and that'll cover the vast majority of stuff you're likely to need on a trip. Add in brakes plus some suspension knowledge and you're pretty much there. If anything more serious than that goes wrong on a trip you're getting towards the edges of what's 'roadside' fixable anyway.

Haynes is good in some ways, bad in others ... I've yet to find anything better than them, the factory manuals often assume a larger toolbox and greater mechanical knowledge than an average person has. Sometimes, though Haynes manuals will skip steps that factory manuals spell out, so if possible it's worth having both to hand.

Edit: Given the long service intervals of modern Hondas I wouldn't think it would be too hard to find a qualified mechanic while touring Africa, with a bit of planning to be in a city when it's due. Servicing a smaller single cylinder bike is a lot easier than a CB500X though.

Peter and Kay Forwood rode EVERY country in the world on their first bike, a Harley Electra Glide. With no prior motorcycle experience, they fixed everything themselves at the side of the road, Kay reading the manual and telling Peter what to do.
You'll figure it out, and if not, there's always a truck along that can carry you and the bike to the nearest mechanic! All part of the adventure. :)

That's a really amazing story, what an adventure that would have been

I wonder when it will be possible on an electric bike? Certainly wouldn't mind never seeing a spark plug again after that ordeal

Re the service intervals they are a manufacturers thing......your bike can go well past those . As long as u can do the air filter / oil / adjust the chain / mend a puncture u will b good to go . The honda 500 engines are bulletproof.......we rarely see them in our workshops apart from routine servicing .Now if u were talking about Ktm , that would b another matter .

If you turned the ignition on when something was unplugged such as a coil or sensor etc, then you will have activated the engine management light. It's a common mistake. And often needs to be deleted manually.

Often you can just plug it in to diagnostics and delete the codes. And you should be okay.

Or perhaps you've left something unplugged. (sensor in the airbox is a common one with plug change).

If you didn't have the light on before you did the service then unless you've really broken something , then I bet it's something simple.

Invest in a diagnostic kit for your bike. Usually it's just an OBD2 bluetooth reader and the relevant app for your phone these days.

When I was young it was common that schools with a mechanics curriculum would take on parts of other people's projects for a small fee - like boring out cylinders, rebuilding transmissions, etc. I even did that myself in middle school.

A few years ago I spoke to a neighbor who was a teacher at a mechanics community college. My garage was at the time stacked with old classic Vespa scooters that I thought would serve as great projects for the school. His saddened response was that the schools didn't actually educate "real" mechanics any more - but what the market of authorized dealers demand. What the dealers want is people that can plug in a diagnostic tool and read of which assemblies they need to; unbolt, order new, and to install. They no longer learn old school diagnostics, nor mechanical or electrical understanding, nor any machining or welding, nor to carry out repairs on components - at least not to any significant extent. There is far more money in replacing entire part assemblies than actually repairing or replacing individual parts of an assembly. And, when the diagnostic computers doesn't give the whole picture, your bike will be in and out of the shop - replacing best guess components until they get it right.

On cars, bikes and farm equipment you see the same thing. I've had mechanics replace entire clutch assemblies when an inspection of the old part revealed that only new plates was required. I've had mechanics replace entire transmissions, hydraulic pumps, et, etc - when all that was required was repairing or replacing a dirt cheap part within that component. It makes for a quicker and more costly job, with fewer liabilities from having gotten it wrong - and risk of bad will (because customers are unaware that they are being ripped off).

I have often been far more satisfied with old school bush mechanics that actually understands machines, than the young breed of "professional" mechanics that has never undertaken even a single restoration all by themselves, only ever having done what the computer tells them to. On my recent purchase of a brand newT7 the dealer was to install OEM heated grips (ordered with the bike). They cut corners and didn't use the correct harness that would make it turn off with the ignition (computer probably didn't tell the mechanic to order it). Instead they took power from somewhere else, so that the grips didn't turn off with the ignition. I had to research the issue, tell them which part to order, and then wait two months for the part and a vacant time. I then had to travel an hour and a half both ways during my work time. It would have been far less cumbersome, expensive and annoying, if I made and resolved that error myself. But, because of warranty, I had no other option.

With a manual, a diagnostic tool, and YouTube, a novice shouldn't be much worse than a newly educated "professional" working in a system made for profit maximizing. In fact, as you only have to learn to know one single bike, your own, chances are that you are you in many cases will quickly become more proficient in diagnosing your bike's problem - than a new "professional". Further still, you are likely more motivated to get it right the first time than for someone that is rewarded according to how much they bill per hour spendt - sending your bike back out onto the road without actually having made sure the real problem is fixed, and fixed properly - going in and out of the shop for months at end.

You don't need a mechanic that relies heavily on a diagnostic tool to order components - if you can get your hands on one which is just as good. You don't also need to pay someone to learn by making mistakes on your bike - you can do that yourself, entirely free.

Where you as a noob probably will fall short relative to a professional, is your efficiency. You will research more, and you will be more of a cluts - working in cumbersome ways. You will also lack the frame of reference to actually be able to properly assess the condition of a particular component - at least not as well as someone who has seen a lot of them are n different conditions. But, you will get better over time. Soon you will be able to "read" a spark plug, an oil filter, etc.

This lack of ability to assess the condition of particular part or component will either make you reinstall broken or worn out parts -thinking they look ok, or make you replace ok parts that don't need replacing - just to be on the safe side. This all depends on if you are a "half full" or "half empty glass" type of personality. Similarly it will affect if you order one part at a time until you get it right, or all the parts for all the most probable culprits (the first to minimize costs, the second to minimize risk of your bike being out of order longer than it needs to be because you have to wait for the part you didn't order at the beginning). If you are the latter type of personality, you will get your bike in a better or as good of a condition as the professional. Further, you will probably get your bike back on the road quicker as you don't have to wait ages for a vacant time at the mechanic's, and lastly you will likely still be saving money.

There is also something to be said about having to take hours out of your work day to get your broken bike to a mechanic - maybe long ways away from where you live, at a very inconvenient time to you... and then have to spend time and money getting back home, and then have to pick it up at a different time that doesn't suit you either - vs just fixing it yourself at home.

Authorized mechanics have more specialized tools, but often you can make do without most of these. Many specialized tools makes for an easier and more efficient job, but are often unnecessary. Many tools can also be made at home.

Personally I love the Hayne's manuals. I wish they had come out with them for my new bikes.

The only thing that keeps me from working on a brand new bike is that it can make void any warranty I have on the bike.

My advice - start doing the work yourself. It isn't as incomprehensible as you think. It is cheaper. It's rewarding. It's reassuring to understand. At some time down the road, your gained knowledge and confidence, will help you get out of what otherwise would have been a very sticky situation. Go for it - you can only fail as bad as the pro!

Thank you all for being so encouraging. I've been out again on the bike and everything seems to be running great! Still stuff to do but I guess it's an "ongoing" project.

I couldn't imagine what the inside of a KTM would look like. It must actually cause nightmares!

Thank you so much Wheelie, that provided me with a lot of insight. I feel a lot more confident that I can achieve this as long as I have my health, license, and passport (edit: also a bike)!

I'm definitely disorganised. I spent half of last week waiting for deliveries. I got completely stuck in only to realise 3 hours later that I didn't have a spark plug spanner. I felt like I was losing my mind when looking for all the stuff I misplaced over and over again.

Top tip. Take photos and make notes/drawings, and put components in in separate containers/bags as you dismantle. It is best to both number and name both the bags and notes/drawings as you go - sometimes even labelling and putting markings on the parts themselves. For instance, contrary to your initial assessment, you might discover on the n'th bolt you unbolt, that all the bolts are not in fact identical after all - that some are just ever so slightly different in length. In such a case you would be very happy if you from the get go had been maticulous in making your markings (a pro tip is sometimes to make a simplified drawing of your component on a piece of cardboard, and then punch your bolts into the cardboard in all their proper locations).

Further, for larger assemblies - those which sre comprised of several sub-assembelies - put those containers of sub-assembelies within a larger container. It is too easy to think that you will put things together shortly after dismantling, and that you will remember how everything goes back together.... only to find that life threw you a curve ball and postponed that plan of yours... not for a few hours, but days or weeks, months even if you are very unlucky. Maybe it was a simple case of you unexpectedly finding out that you need to order a part - one which even proved to be out of stock.

If you take extensive care in properly labelling stuff, then when it is time to put it all together again, you simply reverse the process by starting with the highest numbered container/bag/note/photo - working backwards to zero.

Another top tip is to get your hands on torque wrenches and use them extensively. A noob will stand a great chance of ending up regreting not having done so.

In short, it pays dividends to take the extra time and hassle to ensure you have absolute control - especially if you lack experience. If you do so, this mechanics stuff is actually quite simple - most of the time.

I've owned both a CB500F and X. They are honestly pigs to work on with everything piled on top of everything else and no thought for the space needed to get parts in and out. The bodywork designer must be a world class kumiki champ (although my solution to inserting his work where I've threatened to would not be subtle or artistic)

However, Honda service intervals are a job creation scheme.

Spark plugs - fit iridium and never touch again. The caps and HT last the life of the bike.
Valve clearances - Check at 16000 then never again until you can hear a rattle or have two days to spare.
Anything that says "Inspect" means just check it hasn't fallen off.

You now have a bike that needs a spin on filter every month or two and an air filter at double that if you ride it like Nick Sanders. You can probably double the oil change intervals in Europe and it will suffer not a jot.

You risk more doing a rushed plug change in some hotel car park than just not bothering.

Your bog standard E-bay OBD Bluetooth and phone app works just fine, not that I ever needed it.

Andy

I guess the truth is that anyone who trains as an engine mechanic these days is heading into an industry on a downward slope. Electric motors and battery tech - yes, but internal combustion isn't something you're going to want to invest more training money into than you absolutely have to.


"And, when the diagnostic computers doesn't give the whole picture, your bike will be in and out of the shop - replacing best guess components until they get it right." Too right. I have a friend with a 'new' Skoda car that has an intermittent fault. Its been back to the dealers so many times that the majority of its mileage is there and back, yet they can't fix it. Mixed messages from the diagnostic equipment is the bottom line. They read the codes, fix the issue and say its done, yet it's back the following week.

"I've had mechanics replace entire transmissions, hydraulic pumps, et, etc - when all that was required was repairing or replacing a dirt cheap part within that component. makes for a quicker and more costly job, with fewer liabilities from having gotten it wrong - and risk of bad will". Same thing. Twice in recent years I've seen friends in the US take their cars into dealers with sticky brake callipers. Both times they've been told 'can't fix it, have to replace it' and been stuck with the cost of a pair of new callipers, pads, hoses, and in one case, discs. Asked why the old ones couldn't be repaired, the answer was 'liability, our insurance co doesn't cover us.' So $2000 in place of some seals and pistons. The real reason of course is that it's quicker to swap this stuff over than strip it down, there's more money in it and people are less liable to argue over the bill for new parts than they are over the cost of a mechanics time. My time was my own a month ago when I rebuilt my Land Rover front prop shaft UJs for £25 vs replacing the shaft for £250 but no dealer would have done that. It's 20 mins to swap the shaft, so in and out of the workshop in 30, vs, well it took me a day. An invoice that says "parts £25, labour £250' is going to be a harder sell than the other way round if you don't really know what's involved.


"I've owned both a CB500F and X. They are honestly pigs to work on with everything piled on top of everything else and no thought for the space needed to get parts in and out." And they're not the only ones. It's a day's work to replace the air filter on my 1800 GoldWing. Guess how I know and how many times I've replaced it (think of a number between 0 and 2). How many dealers are going to spend that time on a $10 air filter (don't answer if you're the honest one that would). At least mine's not the later bike where the air bag has to be deactivated first to get to it.

When I first started riding bikes it was normal to spend your weekends with oil up to your elbows fixing something on the road outside your house. Stuff went wrong a lot and if you didn't fix it yourself you wouldn't be getting to work the next day. But at least they had the advantage of simplicity. If you'd been given a Meccano set as a child and built a crane with it the same skills could be used to keep your Norton running. Nowadays though motorcycles are seen as 'leisure industry products' and we're encouraged to 'leave it to the professionals' While there's some jobs I wouldn't do - mainly because of the need for specialist equipment (I farmed out rebores and crankshaft rebuilding recently), the stuff that comes into the service category is not magic. In fact much of it could be designed out by the factories (and much of the 60's weekends in the gutter stuff has been) but where would that leave the dealer network economics.

Don't believe the EV propaganda, the energy density can never be the same as liquid fuels and there will always be applications that need it. 30-50% of vehicles will still be ICE in 2050 and that's a huge market to service. Early adopters and then FOMO adopters are followed by a slower rate or purchase.

The skill set is very similar, EV or ICE, and to be honest its better to start with an electrician and do the windy/oily bits than getting the hammer monkeys to understand where the spark gnomes and other evil spirits go hide.

When I can find an excuse I still train vehicle technicians. There is a problem that the current generation cannot bring themselves to step away from the screen. I've seen an empty fuel tank diagnosed with a laptop. We won't change that, so the solution is remote diagnostics where a specialist in Tokyo does the work and the grease monkey in Tonbridge is just her hands. Before that, AI guided diagnostics can avoid missing the simple steps. We've pretty much just passed the low point in technology vs skill levels.

Disposable technology is the one thing St. Gretas cult should be doing more about. US consumer rights lead and the big business in the EU is still using safety as an excuse, but it will come. Repair or refurbishment will be more profitable than disposal charges, especially when they can't start yet another religion to get all the EV's replaced by steam, Diesel, Atomic or whatever.

Andy

Honestly not sure I have it in me to keep everything as organised as that Wheelie. I might give it a go for the valve clearances

Yeah I saw the valve clearances are at 16k and was wondering how much I actually needed to do it. This 16k mile service is a real slog!

I'll get some iridium plugs next time, thanks for the top tips! Sounds like this will be more manageable going forwards.

I'd never heard of Nick Sanders but that is some pace to go around the world! Hoping to go a little steadier

Yeah the projection on EV usage is interesting. I think I agree there's still a long way to go before it's really a thing. Wouldn't mind being an early adopter though if I can be patient enough with the charge times.

Definitely agree on the disposable world. It's pretty insane right now. Definitely we need to collectively do something about that

Every biker should read the book" Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance".

Not so much about motorcycle maintenance as Zen Buddhism, but there are some great parts in the book that leaves you with a very distinct perception of two main different personality types when it comes to motorcycle maintenance. It may very well help you get a far more healthy and enjoyable relationship with your bike - even when it acts up (and become zen with a lot of other matters as well). And, with you being all zen with the bike, it will help you keep the bike serving you as you serve it.

One archetype just expects their brand new BMW that they paid a super premium for, and which they always leave the service to be undertaken by renown professionals that work for renown authorized dealers - expecting their bikes to simply always work to perfection - getting frustrated, angry, depressed, shocked, feeling let down, afraid, etc - when their machines don't deliver as advertised. They never bother to learn, they don't understand, and they don't even try to. To them bikes are as incomprehensible as magic, so no point in even trying - just leave it to the pros. To them, the world is unjust. To them the world cheated them when the bike doesn't deliver.

The other archetype coexists with their bike. They take it for granted that their bikes will act up, that it will need tender loving care - that hickups is just part of the deal, not something to be frustrated about - but rather something that one might as well try to enjoy since you can't have one without the other - namely, you can't enjoy riding bikes without dealing with unexpected issues occurring at inconvenient times (sometimes big ones). They understand that only getting to know and understand your bike, and to care for it (and know how to do just that) - is the only remedy for both your bike and your soul. They look deeper than the glistening wax and see that everything underneath isn't something which can't be grasped, nor something which is to be feared - nor something which can't be undertaken. They understand that for every problem - time and patience will reveal the solution to them. To them, things just "are".

I grew up as the second type more out of necessity than anything, but I look forward to the day when I have enough money to become the first type. :rofl:

Every biker should read the book "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance"
 

Wheelie: - Every biker should read the book "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance".
Yes, definitely agree with that, or at least have a go.


I recently happened across this:
"Chrome and Black and Dusty: Robert Pirsig’s Motorcycle Heritage, Paul F. Johnston"

https://motorcyclestudies.org/volume...ul-f-johnston/


Makes interesting reading for anyone who's read, or tried to read, Zen and the Art.

eg.
Fig 5 - photo taken by Robert Pirsig's dad near Kenilworth Castle, 1933, a young Robert Pirsig in the sidecar...
Lots more photos and historical Pirsig anecdotes.


Special interest for me as I rode a CB77 for a couple of years around 1968.

You and me both with the CB77 back in that era -

https://i.postimg.cc/0yp2dhw5/71-Greece16.jpg

Not the best of pictures but that's it on the right under the towel in a campsite in Athens.

There's still half a 77 engine under the bench in my 'workshop'. One day I'll try to get the rest of it 'one piece at a time', Johnny Cash style.

I found a book in Oxfam a couple of years back called Zen and Now - a journalist retraced the ZAMM trip about 10yrs ago and met up (or tried to) with a load of the people mentioned in the book. Worth a read to put some of the original trip in perspective.

Here's a link to it on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Zen-Now-Rob...ps%2C50&sr=8-1


I'm currently reading (slowly) the sequel to ZAMM - Lila. It's set on a boat rather than a bike but it's much the same introspective pondering as the original. Not quite as dense as the later parts of ZAMM but there's time yet.

God no. Life is too short for the ramblings of a hippy they eventually lobotomized.

There are way more than two sorts of people. Some for example are engineers and understand why the service work is required. They realise one size does not fit all and fixed intervals are simply the lowest common denominator, usually set by people who sell oil and oil changing services.

If you have the oil analysed (very common in commercial use) you will typically find those sellers of oil were very very conservative in their guess. If you open the bike up as directed for 100,000 miles you will typically find you actually measure a valve that's out every fourth visit. These are facts, measured using measurement tools, not the arty farty ramblings of a mad literature professor whose OCD and other issues caused him to take a subject he learnt by rote with no real understanding and variously decide to go mad and do too much, or just hope the demons went away.

Honda set a service interval based on commuting through Bangkok. Oil analysis shows a typical US pleasure rider can safely double this. Pick a number that suits you that's in between.

Andy

Thanks all for your help and encouragement. I have been riding my bike again and yeah just planning the next steps in the service, doing small bits at a time. Long process! Bit of a nightmare having oil and soon antifreeze to dispose of sat around my tiny one bedroom flat; think I also need a driver's license!

I just hope I can organise my life enough to make this all possible! Got the idea of moving to N. Ireland for a bit as soon as I feasibly can. A LOT to organise first. My life is a mess!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Thanks for this - very interesting read!

As for the nay-sayers, I scizzored this from the article above and think it makes for quite a good endorsement for the book:

...well over six million copies of ZAMM in several editions and 27 languages are in circulation worldwide,[iv] and the book remains in print today. It is read in college philosophy, literature and religion courses, and it serves as the tip of the spear for academic studies in the history of technology under the multiple topics of maintenance, tinkering and DIY. “Pirsig’s Pilgrims” continue to ride along what they know of Pirsig’s 1968 route and document their inspirational experiences in one way or another.[v] Several entire books have been devoted to ZAMM,[vi] with more to come.

The fact that the book was written by a rambling hippie lunatic that had been struggling with mental illness for years - just makes for a more interesting read. But, yes - it is a philosophical read that needs quite a bit of digestion to be seriously enjoyed - but also one that can leave a lasting impact if you do. Personally I think I have read it three times - the first time about 25 years ago. I am seriously considering reading it again this summer - this time through the eyes of a matured middle aged motorcycle traveler.

Nope, not my thing at all.

I started it two or three times and each time it seemed worse than the time before. I have expunged it from my memory. When I want to read books about philosophy I can reach for Jonathan Livingstone Seagull - shorter, easier to read, and, in my opinion at least, not so far up it own backside - and much, much less annoying - I found ZAMM to be one of those books that the reader either throws it in the bin as it winds them up so much or they reread time and again and profess that it has changed their life. The only reason I started reading two or three times was that my bin spat it out at me.

Aside from that, a good read.

It does seem to have that effect on people, you either love it or hate it. Like Wheelie I've read it a few times over the years - usually when something else has prompted me to go back and have another look at it. I wasn't really prepared for it the first time I read it in the mid 70's, expecting that it was going to be a simple bike trip book, so found the route it took into the depths of his philosophy somewhat unexpected. It was only later when I went back to it knowing what I was in for that I was able to take it seriously. I came out of that 'journey' wondering more than anything how someone like that could function in the real world, and it turns out of course that he couldn't; not to the depth that his insights would suggest anyway. So ultimately it turns out to be a book about him rather than any treatise on Quality.

That's what got me reading the sequel, Lila. It purports to be a book about morals - a human construct - and how someone like him deals with a moving target like moral values is what's drawn me in. It's a pity about ZAMM in some respects because the ideas in the early part of the book are useful. It's just unfortunate that when it wanders off into the philosophical stratosphere it leaves a lot of readers behind, and they dismiss the lot of it, the good as well as the bad.

The 50th anniversary of its publication is coming up in a couple of years (April 2024). That we're still talking about it has to say something.

I happen to have just finished re-reading both Jonathan Livingston Seagull and Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, in service to my goal of getting rid of books I'll never read again. The latter remains interesting, if impenetrable at times; the former is (IMHO) pure schlock nonsense which ignores socio-political, economic, cultural, and gender contexts in order to tell a cute story cutely.

I remember Lila as more accessible, but that might be a function of imprecise memory more than anything else.

Back into my grumpy old man cave, now....

All of those books (and a few more that thankfully have been consigned to the pulping plant) come from an era that managed to raise navel gazing to high art, a time when mystic gurus still seemed to have something to offer. A combination of metaphysics and 'metapharmaceuticals' seemed to be the way forward - in some circles anyway. :rolleyes2:

Having been brought up in that era (and lived to tell the tale) there's probably some truth in the old adage that you can take the boy out of the hippy era but you can't take the hippy era out of the boy. I'm typing this as my 1970 250 Yamaha is warming up in the background. Peace Man. :rofl:

Philosophy seems to be the art of talking *****ks around a subject no one in the group really understands, hence iron age Greeks on Chemistry, Romans on Astronomy, 1950's creative writers on psychology and the factors effecting the performance of an internal combustion engine etc.

This is why no one ever reports on the telly that X happened and "Philosophers are looking into it". No one even in a Hollywood film ever shouted "OMG, quick, call a Philosopher".

For motorcycle maintenance go for Haynes/Clymer
For Quality go for W. Edwards Deming
For Infernal combustion try Harry Ricardo
For entertainment go for a ride (or Terry Pratchett)

Why did the dreary hippy sell so copies? It's the only book on many academic reading lists with the word motorcycle in the title? With the right cover looks like a travel/help book? It's probably more useful to stop the desk rocking than all those unread copies of Tolstoy?

My own book BTW will be titled "Sex, Motorcycles and how to win the lottery". There will be a picture of an inappropriately dressed young woman riding a Ducati on the cover.

Andy

Sorry Andy, I've got that one coming out in print shortly :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Philosophy seemed to be the best we could do before we had actual science - basically someone would have a guess at it. It still hangs around in academic titles - PhD is Doctor of Philosophy (in Latin I presume)

When I think of philosophers I invariably get drawn to the philosophers featured in the Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy. My face to face experience of meeting people studying philosophy at University has done little to dispel that image.

For those a little confused by the Guide look up Majikthise and Vroomfondel on this Wikipedia page.

Funny I should read this whilst leafing through the spec tables of a Haynes manual. In dis-belief on the inaccuracies.

In this example, they state to add DOUBLE the amount of fork oil these DRZ forks that I'm working on. Which would surely overflow or blow the seals. Because they haven't bothered to note that the forks were changed for the later models.

So take it all with a pinch of salt.


I have to agree with "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle maintenance"

It starts well. Enjoyable. a story you can relate with. Then as the book progresses, it's almost as if he's being lobotomised whilst he's writing it. It degrades into chaotic ramblings of an angry man.

I really don't understand it's popularity. Maybe it just fit a time and place of which I do not belong.

I think the problem with ZAMM is that we read it from the wrong end. We see it as a bike trip story that drifts off into some kind of unintelligible psychobabble, whereas for him it was a considered investigation of a philosophical concept with the motorcycle riding simply there to lead you into his argument. No wonder people read the first bit and then throw it in the bin. I’m just surprised that his publisher didn’t see the dichotomy. Or maybe they did and were happy that the bike trip bit pushed sales out of the usual limited interest doldrums.

Things really were different when ZAMM was written - it was a long, long time ago (even if to some of us it seems like yesterday). In fact the gap back from now to 1974 is about the same as going back from then to the era of 20’s flappers and the Wall St crash. I can’t imagine planning a 70’s bike trip on advice found in Ulysses or any other 20’s stream of consciousness literature. I think Ted Simon is amazed that Jupiter’s Travels is still being read.

Yes, exactly. He didn't set out to write a travelogue, and that's not what he ended up with.

Rereading it last month I found myself impatient and disappointed--more so than when I originally read it in the seventies, long before I imagined myself learning to ride a motorbike and racking up scores of countries visited. Back then, I was struggling through stuff like this for pure pleasure (I remember Bertrand Russell's The History of Western Philosophy, among others), and Pirsig's book didn't seem in the least out of line. Now...well, I lack the motivation and the aptitude for it.

I wasn't born when ZaAMM was written. It is true I have no love of the 1970's, being able to remember the last couple of years (power cuts etc.) and the left overs (brown flairs, hideous brown and gold wall paper, an Austin Maxi the colour of dog poo, Angel Delight that looked like dog poo....).

I knew it was a philosophy book when I opened it. It was advertised as one of those books you have to have a go at to count yourself in any way civilised. This may be true, but while George Orwell made you think and both Lawrence's had shagging, ZaAMM was just tedious.

Andy

I agree, it *was* tedious.

I was a voracious reader when it came out and I wanted to read it, but it was tough going. Three tries and I finally finished it. The story should have been compelling, but instead it was just hard work to read it.

I tried reading it again a few years back and put it back on the shelf pretty quickly. There are just too many good books to read, to spend time grinding through Zen....

...............shu

Hello

Don't worry to much, you can go on a RTW even if you aren't able to change a crankshaft bearing by yourself in a strong sandstorm at night.

I can change the oil/filter but I did it only once on a trip (many years ago just for fun), the mess with the oil is just to much trouble, the cost compared to the overall cost of a RTW a joke.
So give some money to a local mechanic/shop.

If you can take off the wheels and change a tube, that's all you need, because then you can also change other things on the bike.
If you can't change the tube but take off the wheel, bring this with the bus to the mechanic.
If you can't take off the wheel take all the tool, maybe someone along the road can help you.

I touch only screws where I do not need a torque wrench, but understand what Nm means.
So if in the book it says on a small screw in an aluminum thread 9Nm, I know that I do not hold the long wrench at 40cm and give it all I can.
Simple rule with screws, after fix comes broken.

In short, the more you understand your bike and can fix it the better, learn what you can, and just go on your trip.
If it is your first trip, start with a shorter trip for several weeks or months, before you sell everything you have and start a multy years RTW.

sushi

P.S.
Could please a moderater put all that philosophical bullshit about ZAMM in a separate thread.

This is the hubb pub.

Not a technical section. Threads evolve, digress and flex.

Like any conversation in any pub. bier

ZAMM was just insufferable from a short way in for me, so it just sits looking pretty on the shelf next to the ones I've actually read, lol. I enjoy a bit of light philosophy, but life's too short to feel weighed down by it rather than challenged.

The flipside was Lone Rider which was dry to begin with but a pleasure to read after the first couple of chapters, and at the end there's several things that might make one reflect on their own life in a bit more depth than one would expect.

Yay - not just me then. I was starting to feel a bit of a Philistine with my lack of interest in ZAMM. Lone Rider is a cracking read