Sort Of Depression?
 

Hi all.

Can anyone relate?

I went to Colombia for 3 weeks in February, 2020 (just under the wire) and had no plans to travel outside of my own country for at least two years.

My next trip I had planned was to ride from Vancouver Island to Tuktoyuktuk, NWT (North West Territories) in the summer of 2021. This is entirely within my own country and maybe? still doable (NWT currently has a 14 day quarantine requirement for everyone, including Canadians and returning NWT residents).

So even though I had no real plans to leave Canada until at least 2022 I still feel anxious and somewhat depressed that I can't do so.

Go figure! What gives?

...Michelle

I'm feeling it, too.

There is a lot of free-floating anxiety in the world these days, and it tends to show up in ways that surprise us--even on your side of the border, where you don't have to deal with the antics of a certain golf-cheat and a bunch of sycophantic senators. A lot of people are hitting low points around now.

In my business there's a phrase "the illusion of control," generally viewed as important for everyone's mental health. Even knowing it's an illusion it can be deeply unsetting to find ourselves deprived of it, unable to realistically dream of escape. We're not in charge of this thing, and though we never really were, it's upsetting to be confronted with that fact day after day.

Kindness to self (a.k.a. self-care) is important here. Good to be deliberate about practicing gratitude, and remarkably good to make an effort to help other people at least every day. The field known as Positive Psychology generates an endless supply of relatively simple yet effective ways to improve mood and calm worry. It's worth a Google.

Hope that's helpful, and not taken as dismissive or belittling.

Mark

Illusion of Control
 

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I think "Illusion of Control" makes a lot of sense.

I like Mark's comments too, and agree - but confess that for me it's reminiscent of when I was two, and Mom said "no, you can't have a cookie" - then I REALLY wanted it!!!
Saying "no you can't" or "you must" sets off an auto-knee-jerk opposite reaction in people I think, which may explain anti-maskers a little?

Does your life seem pointless, and you don't know how you'll be able to survive the day? Or why you should even bother trying? Do you avoid other people because you can't stand that they know how to feel happy, and you just can't feel anything? Do you feel like your mental capabilities are deteriorating? Are you unable to control your anger over small things? Are you always tired, but unable to sleep? If so, you are may be suffering from depression, and you should really make an effort to get better. Professional help may be in order, but if you're not too far into depression mindfulness training may help you. So may going on motorcycle rides - it puts you into a flow where the moment is everything that counts.

Do you suddenly feel so vulnerable that you can't face everyday situations? Does your mental condition make you hyperventilate and physically hurt? Do you get sudden pangs of terror that are not rationally explainable? Is your heart suddenly racing and your hands shaking when you think of particular things? Are you always tense and worried for no particular reason? Do you avoid normal situations because you are afraid your fears will overwhelm you? If so, you may be suffering from anxiety. If this lasts for more than a few weeks, you should seek help.

If not, you're probably just a bit sad and worried. That won't hurt you, and is part of everyone's life. Being a little sad, out of control, dejected and worried in the middle of a global pandemic is probably a healthy reaction. If you never felt that way, that would actually be a problem. But out of respect for those who really suffer, please don't belittle their debilitating experience by likening it to normal, healthy experiences.

Short edit: I know this might sound harsh, but a major problem encountered by those suffering from anxiety or depression is that "normal" people think they're just worried or sad, and that they just need to get happy again. Therefore, I believe it is important to not say depressed when you mean sad, or anxiety when you mean worries.

I'd hate to see what you originally wrote before you edited it for being "too harsh". This topic seems to have hit quite a raw nerve with you. You don't know me in the least, so I'd ask that you not evaluate or judge my level of anxiety or depression and the way I feel it.

Thank you

:thumbup1:

Write about yourself
 

In general

Everyone should write about themselfs.
And not have opinon about others.
Or tell others what is right or wrong.
Feelings or bike or.... Does not matter

There's a lot of people suffering from poor mental health at the moment. I know the events of the last (nearly a) year have affected me and I'm nowhere near the worst I know. I'm not sure what it's like in Canada at the moment but in the UK there's definately a feeling that all the escape routes are being blocked off one by one. So not only can you not go anywhere, you're trapped in place with an invisible killer disease drifting around and selecting people at random like the grim reaper with a quota to meet. Not only that but it's cold and dark, many people's economic prospects are dire and there's seemingly no end to it. I can't think of a single tick to put in the positive column - other than the jam tomorrow vaccine story. With all of that against us I'm not surprised many people feel like the walls are closing in. I don't think I've ever known a combination of elements come together like this before - certainly not in my lifetime anyway (WW2 was before my time:rofl:)


My experience in the UK has been that the mental health services are dire beyond words so the likelihood of being able to get professional help is minimal - and that's not just at the moment, it's anytime, Covid or not. Unless things are really bad - and depression can go that way very quickly - it's probably best to stay out of the clutches of professionals if you can - and that's from someone having two psychologists and a psychiatrist within easy reach at a personal level. Having someone close to you that you can talk to is about the best most people can manage and there's a lot of truth in the old saying 'a trouble shared is a trouble halved.' Free floating anxiety though is a difficult one to deal with as there's nothing to get hold of. I wish I could end this on a positive note but a lot of people are finding it very difficult at the moment. That's not much consolation but you're far from alone.

So why are we not talking about it more? Well I'm going to throw it open to the audience. You tell me why it ('it' being not only the Covid crisis but all of the psychological side of travel as well) hardly ever gets mentioned except in a kind of laugh it off way. Based on the tone of the posts on the H.U. Facebook pages you'd think that most of their breakdowns would be caused by testosterone flooding the electrics. I can't remember anyone including mental prep in their overlanding checklist. Here's a few suggestions though - 1. it's one of those things we either take for granted or don't think we can do anything about. 2. this site is most males, and, as we know, men don't talk about their feelings ( https://www.mindbodygreen.com/articl...ty-study-shows ). 3. we've all been so traumatised in the past that this feels like nothing, or, 4. the Prozac is working wonderfully. I'm definately subject to one of those but feel free to add to the list based on your own experiences.

Backofbeyond.

I think there's a lot of truth to what you're saying and the more I think about it, my stress, depression and anxiety, which is aggravated by the pandemic, is most likely making my lack of travel opportunity issues feel worse. My most effective therapy so far has been my bike and travel in general. Sometimes I need a full tank of gas before I feel "normal" again :scooter:
So maybe having my "therapy" curtailed is making me feel more affected? ...hmmm

Why are we not talking about it? Well, we're still in the stone ages when it comes to recognizing mental/emotional issues as an actual health issue ...at least as far as the general public is concerned.

My personal experience when trying to talk about these things have been either:

Uncomfortable silence
Dismissal (as in suck it up buttercup)
Being told that my feelings aren't valid since others have it worse than I.

With those being the most common responses it's no wonder people don't want to talk about it. I've worked hard to overcome the responses and carry on and respect myself anyway but it's a hard uphill climb at times.

Of course I do occasionally get good support by a few open and caring individuals who, even if they don't understand, they at least respect it. So, things are changing slowly, at least from when I was a kid in the 70's.

Good thoughts from markharf. We may be fortunate since our government treats us like adults, provides a huge amount of information, and makes decisions based on the data in terms of restrictions. If you follow the protocols you can get out and about somewhat, although we don't have as much space as Canada, we do have a lot to see. So we have refocussed on our own country, and have been able to get out since lifting of total "lockdown" - several weekends to isolated "fincas", as well as a couple of nature reserves.

In terms of dealing with it, I think being treated as adults helps, and we have focussed a lot on the positives. It would have been good to be able to execute the plan for this year (South Asia) and we still hope that things will permit a relatively big trip to Canada for 6 months, however if we go back into "total lockdown" which has happened in some municipalities recently, we'll be fine, reading, music, arts, cooking, and remote working.

The only edit was adding the last paragraph.

I really wasn't trying to evaluate your mental state. If you struggle with these issues, I have the deepest respect for it. It was not my intention to put you in either category.

You are right that I believe mental health is extremely important. I've had a couple of burnouts that take the form of depressive periods where I was facing the abyss, and I've had to learn how to manage my mental health to avoid getting back there. For me, much of it is to find the elusive "flow" experiences. One of the reasons for starting to ride motorcycles was exactly this, and one of the serious warning signs for me is when I can't be bothered to go for a ride. :o Another technique that helps me is mindfulness, which is actually just training your mind to find flow in more situations.

I know from personal experience that the worst advice comes from those who think that depression is just sadness. "Why can't you just get up and go to work in the morning like everyone else?" just made me sink further into the hole I was trying to crawl out of. My experienced also make me very aware that when I feel sad in response to a sad situation, that's likely to be a healthy response. It is when I don't feel at all that I get worried.

I've had extended family die from depression. They were so far into the void that they were unable to ask for help, unfortunately. I have friends with what seemed like a perfect life getting their whole existence torn apart by anxiety. Comparing my own periodic existential dread (a healthy response to facing your own mortality) to their experience taught me that I am lucky. I know people with OCD who are not able to work because they cannot break their patterns. It makes me feel better about my own habit of driving five minutes back to my place to check that the iron is unplugged, which is normal absent-mindedness.

In short, there is a difference between responding to events with appropriate, negative feelings and being in a state where your conditions makes you unable to respond to life in a productive way. A friend of mine who is a psychotherapist often says "this is a normal response to an abnormal situation". I think a lot of people are feeling sad, lonely, bored, and afraid right now. Those are all appropriate responses to a global pandemic that restricts your ability to live. However, for most people, these feelings pass. They are able to handle these feelings can be handled by talking to friends, engaging in alternative activities, or simply accepting that sometimes life sucks. For others, they may fester and turn into serious issues.

A very understandable example is the response to a loved one dying. It induces grief, uncertainty and fright about how to go on without them, anger at the world for taking them away, and forces you to face your own mortality. All of this is healthy. Over time, it may combine with the love to a feeling of missing the departed, a sadness that is more about the positive lost than the negative induced. Moments of melancholy, pangs of intense grief. It is when that transformation does not happen that it becomes unhealthy. Unfortunately, most of us are very good at offering our condolences and words of comfort early in the process, but unable to catch the signals when someone ends up transforming healthy grief into unhealthy depression.

Your own experience about dismissal or silence when talking to people is actually exactly what I was trying to address. If the people you talk to believe that their own sadness (which passed with time) is the same as your depression, that their intellectual existential dread is the same as your anxiety attacks, they are poorly equipped to be of any use as discussion partners. That's why I believe it is important that everyone understands that depression and anxiety are life-threatening conditions that they may not have experienced. I see how my post was too far in the other direction, and maybe was counter-productive. If you found it insulting, you have my sincerest apologies. At least we got what I believe ended up as a valuable discussion.

TLDR; Sorry for being too harsh, mental health is important, take care of each other.

As someone who has been involved both personally and professionally with mental health, what riding Viking wrote was absolutely accurate and appeared well intentioned.

I know this because I was about to write exactly the same thing.

Scrabblebiker, I really think you misunderstood Vikings intention with his post. Your post was asking if you had a “sort of depression”, and the only way to know that is to know the answers to the questions that Viking posed.

Last Friday I saw my doctor for my failed knee replacement and the limitations it has imposed. being a doctor he noted some behaviours that worried him. He asked virtually these exact questions. I have been down of late, kind of sad, and had moments where my mind thought about a less than rosy future - long story - but anyway, I am off to see a psych in a few weeks, just to make sure.

I am fairly sure though that I am just ‘down’ atm as I have always had plans and a path that I followed to a certain place, and I have headed off down a different, less certain one.

Perhaps take Vikings post as a caring, clinical one, not an attacking one, as that seems to be the intent.

Covid will end and we will be out soon I hope.

cheers
Homer

This is a very personal thread for a lot of people .
It is very very hard to keep positive at the moment , but it will end one day.
We all take too much for granted in this life .
This is a wake up call for us all !
so ... Be Happy and look forward to the future !

Washing and waxing a bike? What's that?

:innocent:

It is a very successful procedure that initiates the falling of rain, regardless of locale and weather forecast, to cause the creation of mud to make your bike filthy. Works every time for me. If you are unlucky enough not to succeed in your “rain dance” then planning to have a BBQ afterwards normally seals the deal.

Hi Michelle:

You are not alone. My story is similar - my last trip was to Tunisia in March 2020, I got caught in quarantine there & only by luck managed to get on a flight back to Canada in April 2020, having left my motorcycle behind in Tunis. I've been stuck at home in Canada since then - I'm retired, and 65 years old.

Being stuck at home greatly frustrates me because I usually spend at least 3 months each year travelling internationally - I have a motorcycle I keep in Europe for just that purpose.

But - what else can we do? The problem (the pandemic) is beyond our control.

The same strategies and outlooks on life that I learned when I recovered from alcoholism 20+ years ago have helped me cope with the restrictions imposed by this pandemic. Briefly, some of these are as follows:

One Day at a Time - We can all cope with "today", but if we start trying to cope with tomorrow and the day after that and the month after that before those days arrive, things get tough.

This Too Shall Pass - Sooner or later, either we'll get vaccinated, or this pandemic will abate, or both.

Let Go & Let God - Even if you are not religious (I'm agnostic), don't try and control things that are clearly out of one's control.

Easy Does It - Don't get too worked up about things. Treat life's problems like a dog approaches things: If you can't eat it or screw it, piss on it and walk away.

Hope these thoughts help you - they are helping me get through this lockdown.

As for visiting Tuk this coming summer, my guess is that you will be able to make the trip. Either you'll get vaccinated, or the infection rate will abate by the summer because so many others have been vaccinated.

Cheer up.

Michael

My View
 

what a great thread,

I am not a wordly traveller, but I was hoping to become one somewhat before all this went pear shaped.

As I am now 55 going on 56, I was hoping to slow down a bit, take more time and see some of the planet how I had always wanted, slowly and with some thought.

I travelled quite a bit for work, europe and the US ect, but it was always in spurts, the odd 2 week vacation, and once to appease my wife we actually went for a 1 week all inclusive to Jamaica (A country I adore, but after 3 days in the "compound" I needed to get outside the "wall") and was happiest visiting places without guides and sanitised "tours".

I started watching tons of youtube (still am really) seeing places that were interesting and how folks travelled.

One day I watched a channel called "harry's Garage" take a testarossa to morocco. That was it! If you can somehow take a testarossa from the UK to Africa,I had to check it out!

You never really look at a map of the world unless something sparks you to do so, I had never thought that the African continent was something so attainable (I mean you know, but you dont really do you?),that it was something "normal" people could do!

I decided right after that episode that if this guy could take something so wrong for the task,then I could do it as well.

Covid was not going anywhere for a bit, I needed to focus on my business during this time (I work in Aviation,so my worry meter went through the roof) and my Dad was getting worse after his stroke earlier in the year, I needed something else to focus on outside of "life" if I going to make through this time without loosing my mind.

In October/November I decided to drag out a dead (no motor)4 runner that I had stashed in the back of my garage waiting for a time that I could find a purpose for it.

After 9 years parked out back, the paint looked like hell,it stank inside and who knew what would still be functional and I didnt know if this was going to be pointless or worthwhile.

I enjoy working on cars, when im really into it and focused on what I am doing, I leave the garage tired but relaxed, sort of the same as reading a book before falling asleep, it forces you to focus your attention on something other than the "noise" of normal life.

I got started and announced to everyone I knew/met that I was going to morocco (eventually) and this heap was what was going to take me there,many chuckles were obtained along with statements such as "your nuts!", "thats stupid!" "why?", and many other of the same ilk.

So I sort of doubled down with myself,and made me a promise that if the world can get a handle on Covid, I will try to be ready to go.

so when I can ,I go in the garage, and get to work, I swapped in a motor that I had in a crashed 4 runner, changed the gearbox from auto to manual,started to redo the wiring,get things/systems that have been dormant for year to wake up and start working. I feel that this has helped me to calm myself during this time,its stupidly "theraputique" and helps keep my slightly grounded.

I purchased several of Chris Scotts books (I have read them 3 or 4 times over and are on my night stand not to be moved). I have purchased paper maps and started to lay a plan of how and when ,and through this my wife has let me indulge myself on this plan. I still dont know if she will join me as she is not into adventure travel very much, but I include her until she rolls her eye's.

I dont know if this adventure will ever take place, being self employed in a small business takes a bunch of my time,along with kids/ageing parents/ageing dogs and the entire baggage of life,but just being able to plan slightly crazy things makes each day OK.

I tell everyone I speak with that you MUST have something/anything (especially in these times) that gets your juices flowing,even if only a bit.Seek that out.

I feel for all those who have lost employment,loved ones,businesses,and even homes through all this,it will take some time to heal through this,and certainly lives will be forever changed because of it. But I try not to focus too much honestly on the entire world, and try to hold my little piece of it together as best I can,helping my friends, family and employee's.

So all I can say is, use this time to reflect,make sure you know what is important to you, make room for others and be as kind as you can be right now. Planning and dreaming is free (for now)and realise when it time to ask for help,be it a hand or simply a chat.

That was way to long a reply to this thread

Cheers,

Paulo

That's a GREAT reply Paulo! Thanks for your thoughts!

Well I have to say that I am of the same mind - when all about is madness you need to have something to work towards, a reason for putting up with the chaos of life, etc. What is exciting and a goal for you is not or everyone - and that is the wonderful thing about being human, we are all different. I am so glad it isn’t just me with this philosophy - I suspect that on HU we are not alone with that perspective.

That's a great post Paulo and reading it brightened up a miserable wet Wednesday morning. My workshed and garage are full of two wheeled projects with similar long term aims - get them rebuilt, sorted out and go somewhere interesting on them. One of them is even intended to go to Morocco (and should have been there last summer except for Covid).

As you're finding there's always a few bumps in the road between having the idea and setting off. Not just to Morocco but on any journey that takes you out of your routine. Work commitments and deadlines, family concerns, deep down worries about whether you're doing something really stupid, other people telling you you are doing something really stupid ("at your age you ought to know better" etc). You can probably add to the list yourself but take heart from the fact that there's hardly another person on this site who hasn't had to deal with all of that.

When a friend and I first planned a motorcycle trip to Morocco (51 yrs ago!!!) we were told by countless people we'd be robbed, killed, they'd never see us again, don't expect to come back, think of your poor mother, all of it psychological pressure to 'conform'. It took five years before that changed to 'oh he's off somewhere again'. Strangely, few people said 'you'll crash the bike', it was all 'you'll be set upon by 'foreigners'. Most of the people telling us that had themselves never left the country.

I once read a magazine article in which the journalist stated that 'given enough notice I'm the bravest person in the world'. He meant that he'd agree to anything if the timescale meant it didn't happen in the near future. And so it is with overland trips. It's easy to set about doing the planning, setting up the vehicle, sorting the route, the logistics etc when it's a way off but the pressure builds the closer the departure dates get. I once cancelled a trip I'd spent a year planning on the morning of departure when my wife became ill. She wasn't that bad but the delay meant I'd missed my 'window'. It can get very depressing as you see problems multiply as the day gets closer.

It's pity Covid has stopped a lot of the overlanding type events from taking place this year as there's nothing better than getting inspired from seeing what others have been doing. There are a number of Zoom style on-line events but it's not the same (imho anyway). Most of the 'value' I get comes not so much from the formal side of things - the talks, seminars etc (good though they are!) - as just meeting people in the campsites, car parks, bars, round a fire in the evenings and chatting face to face. The positivity you get from stuff like that can often be the psychological reinforcement you need to push the project through rather than giving up and 'postponing' when the pressure builds.

Stick with it, get the truck sorted and take a realistic view of what you're doing. It's a little bit like running - it takes all sorts of mental tricks to get you out of the house, it can be difficult while you're actually doing it but the rewards, both immidiately afterwards and long term, make it worth the pain. You're at a good age as well - this is what I was doing in my mid 50's :

https://i.postimg.cc/Njvjwn10/Africa0110.jpg