Should we have a look forward the BMW vs KTM duel?
 

Reading motorcycle magazines and listening to bikers there is no other matter than the BMW vs KTM duel!

Instead, what do you think about these two bikes? Have someone tried them?

I'm keen to have a feedback about Moto Morini... it would be great if this iconic italian maker revamps itself!

:thumbup1:

"These two bikes"? Sandro, amici, que che? What "duel" do you speak of?
Which two bikes? Both companies make 10 or more different models.
What are you talking Sandro? doh

Do you actually work for Motocyclismo? ... or somehow blagged a "one time" job from them? I hope you won't continue to make real moto journos ashamed! :nono: BTW, BMW make a nice elec. scooter!

Morini? No es possible!

Dear Mollydog

You should calm down!
If you didn't understand what I have said It's due to my level of english which of course is not the same as yours. Anyway I don't feel ashamed because after all I do feel that my level of english is enough to talk with other people from all over the world, surely more friendly than you! I thought that with pictures would have been easy to understand which bikes I was talking about...
I'm sorry...
BTW if you want to know, I'm not an employee of Motociclismo don't worry but they do support my projct!

Alessandro

I can't afford either bike. :rofl:

Sandro,
It's just that your post was a bit "incongruous", does not make a lot of sense. But I salute you ... your English is 100% better than my Italian! :helpsmilie:

Google Translate is good to communicate more complex ideas. I use it to help my weak Spanish. It works!

I know Morini quite well ... followed them in 1970's-1980's. Remember the 3.5? We had a small group of Morini riders here in San Francisco in those years. Morini, like many other great Italian marks, has made several attempts to resurrect itself. These re-birth's rarely work out. Look at the history! Laverda, MV Augusta, Ducati, Aprilia, Benelli. All have had financial UPS and DOWNS ... and some or no longer around at all. (Laverda)

You started off your 1st post asking about BMW vs. KTM? What was your point there?

The two brands really compete in ONE segment of motorcycling: Adventure Touring.
Anything to add about that? bier

My point was that many riders and magazines spend a lot of time and pages talking about BMW and KTM fighiting for the lead of the adventouring and travelling niche of the market!
Of course they deserve it but there are in the market many other interesting bike and I've realized that nobody at the moment talk so much about The GranPasso and the Caponord...and maybe they are good as well!
I'm keen to hear someone who has ridden the Moto Morini one!

Ps...hope my English now is getting better

Alessandro

Your English is just fine! :thumbup1:
Correct. BMW & KTM get way to much coverage. But ADV bikes are HOT now and magazines always follow the money. Sales of both BMW and KTM are soaring ... even in a BAD economy. Bikes like Vstrom, Capo Nord, Multistrada, Guzzi Stelvio ... and a few more ... they simply cannot keep up.
ALL good bikes ... but IMAGE, Cache' and PRESTIGE are also very important in this segment.

I've ridden both the Guzzi Stelvio and 1st generation Capo Nord. Both good bikes ... but neither can match the KTM or BMW on pure performance. If you look at "character" or "style" or panache ... then this is more subjective. I like them all and have ridden and tested a few.

http://patricksphotos.smugmug.com/ph...-bTZxjT8-L.jpg
Me testing Capo Nord in 2002.
http://patricksphotos.smugmug.com/ph...-3p9vdgF-L.jpg
Triumph Tiger in 2001.
http://patricksphotos.smugmug.com/ph...-LGHs5ft-L.jpg
Testing BMW F800GS in 2010
http://patricksphotos.smugmug.com/ph...-Q3GLgnv-L.jpg
V-Strom 1000 vs BMW 1150 GS ... testing them back to back in Baja.

If the purpose of the question is to find a winner and a loser, that is subjective and depends on many factors - I will not digress to that. Rather, will give you my summary impressions, having owned both.

BMW 1200 GSA - solid, heavy, steady and reliable - my ride for over 20,000 km of Soviet Union adventures.
KTM 1190 Adventure R - fast, nimble, a few tweaks needed - so far a fun ride of over 3,500 km in the Caucasus.

It is not about the ride, although IMO, a bike is the key ingredient to a great adventure - it is about the adventures which pop up along the ride - and both bikes are more than capable mounts to take you to the unexplored.

Well said Cliff ... and why I was mystified by Sandro's original post that seemed to want to compare/divide fans of both. I see now it's mostly a communication issue.

Hope you continue to have good and safe riding on your KTM!
Many dealers across Russia/Caucasus?

I think people will find much less of a "divide" here than in certain paper magazines. Just like "What Tool" magazine will certainly have opinions on which electric screwdriver is best, the bloke mending a fence will just pick up the first suitable tool, probably a hammer (the slots are for taking them out) and get on with it. I suspect many here don't believe a word of the manufacturers propaganda and buy the bike on the best deal, with the most support that fits them best. Even the old shaft vs chain debate drops away as many here can fit a clip link, lube, change oil, change a drive seal as required.


Now there is another market where having the badge whose brand fits the image you'd like to project is important. I suspect those guys buy more magazines and less petrol and probably do want their team to win.


Andy

KTM gave me an 1190 to try out. I already own both a 1200 and a 990. The 1190 well it has better brakes and abs than the old 990, feels more like a BMW than the traditional KTM. It even looks more like a BMW than a KTM. The way you sit, sound, feel, etc. In fact, both bikes have moved closer to each other. Just doesn't appeal to me as a KTM

I took it back and said I would rather keep my 990. But when I trade in my 1200 I would consider the 1190 as a replacement. In my mind it is an upgrade on a 1200, not a 990.

Instead of diverging the market is converging and the differences are actually getting less. The 990 and 1200 were very different rides. the new 1190 and1200 no longer. So the winner and loser comes down to marketing. It looks like KTM is grabbing market share from BMW and I see more 1190s than LCs. Used to be 1200s far outnumbered 990s. the super 10 and multistrada and triumph haven't really grabbed significant market share and. well not here. Is winners or losers based on who sells the most bikes?

In my opinion:
1190 pros: price, power at top end (if you ride fast on tar), brakes, still lightest of large adv DS bikes
cons: new design so has bugs, heat, no longer a traditional ktm, heavier than 990


BMW pros: low end grunt, BMW on call lol! tested design although putting the old lady on steroids to get last bit of HP out of her may lead to problems and longevity issues so not sure if it is a pro.
cons: price. Its a lot of money for a lot of weight and plastic, top heavy, the stigma of poser bmw riders lol. Charlie and Ewan image lol!

End of the day, neither the LC nor the 1190 appeal to me as must have bikes. There is no new bike I really want these days and manufacturers are moving away from what I am happy with. Both are heavier than their predecessors. I will probably buy an 1190 in a few years when the bugs are ironed out. BMW? I will wait till there is a new generation, not the same old boxer filled with botox and face lifts. They got all they can out of it now.

Just my opinion. I like what the BMW and KTM were, not so much where they are going.

Guys I'm sorry but It wasn't my intention to compare BMW and KTM.

I just said that instead of talking about them as many riders and magazines do, I would like to dedicate a thread on new competitors of those bikes, which aren't shown so much....
...Just like the two in the pic above: Moto Morini Granpasso 1200 or Aprilia Caponord 1200!

Some of you have never tried or own them?

Thanks,
Alessandrobier