Selfish and Brainless?
 

I had started a thread in the Sub-Saharan Africa forum lamenting the fact that all the challenging routes from Cairo to Cape Town were in the process of being paved. Bye bye adventure!

Uganduro piped up with the friendly quote above insulting anyone who would think of doing the Cairo - Cape Town for the adventure. You "filthy rich overlanding types"!

So, are we all being selfish and brainless if we are sad to see the end of the adventure?

"They paved paradise, put up a parking lot..."

xxx

Hmmm. That's a tough one. You both raise good points.

It is, without doubt, a tragedy that parts of Africa have so many huge incomprehensible problems. But, IMO, it's also a tragedy (to a much lesser extent, of course) to lose a great opportunity to explore and have adventures in these wild places.

But does the introduction of new roads and infrastructure really ruin the experience? I'm not so sure. It's not as though central Sudan will look like Vegas in a couple of years. If there's mile after mile of nice new blacktop from A to B, then you'll just have to take a different route via C, D and E. This, of course, may be longer and tougher... but it was "adventure" you were after anyway, no?

It's similar in "Western" countries too. Take France for example. You want to go from North to South. People on a mission can use the Autoroutes, and others, like me, can stay as far away from them as possible on the lesser, more interesting roads.

I don't think that the two issues need to fight each other.

I actually think Uganduro has a fair point - I guess it's inevitable that the primary routes become main thoroughfares, and if that helps aid and transport, it can only be good for the country/s and it's people...

...just as long as those countries don't become overrun with tarmac and greed (which sadly is also inevitable?), as per my quote above...

However, I'd also suggest it will be a long time coming before every inch of every road in Africa is tarmac - if you want an 'off-tarmac' adventure, there are still going to be plenty of roads and trails that will never be tarmaced, you've just got to stop following the well-worn routes and explore a little more?

xxx

I think Butchdiamond and I are thinking and posting the same... x

African roads
 

Dont worry!! give it a couple of years and the roads will be knackered again!! its africa!

Hmmm, Uganduro has a point i feel. After all, our general interest in taking a backward step(?) and travelling on unsealed routes so we can get our fix of adventure is a personal choice of ours - but the locals needing improved infrastructure is surely paramount, especially in developing countries
?c?

Yes, a fair point made BUT just because we were born in the country we were and are able to do what we do doesn't mean we're "selfish and brainless" I think this many have been taken somewhat out of context

I'm not suggesting that we are are Selfish in our somewhat specialised interest i.e. overlanding, just that there are others who benefit at our "loss".And if a certain route becomes less adventurous to us then search out another, if practicable - adapt,improvise,overcome... eh!

Indeed you maybe
 

As overland motorcyclists you may to a lot of other people seem selfish and brainless.As mostly all you seem to do is just pass through on the way back to your first world homes.After all who cant do it these days,all you need is a bike a creditcard and the will to do it.
Some of you may be helping some charity,but mostly not.
So really solo motorcycling is pretty hedonistic.
But most of the guys I meet are nice and I,ve seen a ton of go by.
I think the answer is to actually stay in one place during your trip for six months to a year.It will take that amount of time to get a true feel for that place wherever it may be and your trip won,t simply be a story of I went here,I went there.Instead of blasting past on the way to God knows where,get to know them speak a bit of there language,eat some of there food.What do they do,where do their kids go to school,what are their hopes,dreams etc.
Actually have a valid point of view instead of being another bike guy on his once in a lifetime big adventure.
Al theturtleshead

- Of course we do, that's what travelling's all about! Expanding our geographical horizons. And most of us have to return Home eventually (even though it's often a bind to do so).

- And wouldn't that be nice, were it practicable/affordable.But to me Travelling is more the journey and less the destination.IMHO

- So we don't try? I'm not the most sociable bloke on the planet, but communicating with the folk along the way is something i try to do - you never know when you need a spot of help.

- So why the griping, Al?:frown: Most of the Hubbers here aren't Resort-types who isolate themselves behind security walls. We don't shut ourselves off,we mix with the locals - that's what bikers do...:mchappy:

effort
 

Maybe you need to try harder.
Al theturtleshead

I wish they'd hurry up and build spaceships so we can ride on other planets like Mars

Hi all, well this particular sefish motorcyclist began to read up about Morocco before his first visit-still to come. Soon it became clear that many people there are very poor. This concerned me. Then I heard that kids beg for "Un stylo" at the roadside. I realized that they can't go to school without the stylo/pen to write with. This concerned me. I heard that Moroccans are hugely friendly and are likely to welcome me to share a mint tea-with no payment or commitmet. That would not happen back home. This concerned me.
I felt I needed to be able to help the children and thank folk for a tea. After a time I settled upon an idea----My bike can take a pillion! So I can carry about 80kg on it to help/ say thanks. This idea has matured to me taking a HUGE load out to two schools. One teacher I found out about on HUBB! I am going to schools because I can really help rather than just be courteous. I have collected pens, books, wall charts and posters, finger and hand puppets, footballs, frisbees, dominoes, crayons, some paints etc and some embroydery threads. All this will JUST fit on my road bike which will be lightly loaded after school.
Someone will say something about guilt release or somthing but ,No, I stop to help if somenone has broken down and I just thought that vsiting a wild, barren place and going,"Ooh,Wow!" was rather patronising to the locals really what looked like adventure to me was also ogling poverty. So we're all individuals. ( I am NOT a religious person but a hang gliding pilot, biker, traveller and thoughtful individual.) I can now look forward to a very different trip as I shall experience Moroccan society in a deeper fashion than without this contact with teacherw, kids, school and families.

For a different take on adventure bike travel see this. Takes about an hour to view and is worthwhile I guarantee.
Angola, it's not like they said. - ADVrider Linzi

I'm sorry to say that attitudes/approaches such as you describe encourage the view of tourists as walking free supermarkets, with all the accompanying corruption of values in the local people. Kids run out screaming "Donnez-moi" this, that, and the other. You cause the people to think we are idiots whose sole function is to give stuff away. How would you feel if your kids ran after tourists in the street, begging? You'd be ashamed, I hope.

You CANNOT become a substitute for failings in a country's education policy. It is naive sentimentality to think you can.

There's plenty of child poverty in your own country. But it's not so exciting to address that, as handing out pens in Morocco, causing problems for locals and visitors alike.

I have to agree with Caminando on that one.

On some of my various travels in the past I have been inclined to give "gifts" to people who have been particularly helpful to me. Though I'm developing the opinion that it's not generally a good idea. When people voluntarily help others, it's usually for the sake of helping, not to get rewarded, and it would be a shame to corrupt that frame of mind.

It's also a shame that more and more places I go to, I seem to get constantly pestered by local folk because they think that foreigners are a sure thing for a dollar or two.

If you want to help, I think it's better to do so through a charity such as UNICEF or similar, where your donation can be well managed and part of a bigger plan to help. Also there's the benefit that from the point of view of the locals, the donation is comming from the richer world as a whole, represented by the charity organisation. In this way, the locals get some aid and support, you get a clear conscience, and travellers could be free of hassles.

Up tight
 

If the guy had said he was giving the stuff to kids in the street,that would have pissed me off because that would be encouraging kids to beg in stead of going to school.Never give anything to kids in the street as their miserable parents send them out to work and they stay home drunk,drugged out or whatever.
But I fail to see why going to a school with a contact you,ve picked up on the Hubb is wrong.
In most of our work in rural communities the first thing we do is hand out backpacks,books,pens etc just as a little gift to make the kids smile that day.
So lets leave thing to huge bureaucratic charities,you,ll never see them in real life.
So lets be clear here all you selfish and brainless guys can take books,pens etc to any third world schools and hand them out to the kids yourself,make them all smile and laugh for 5 minutes and not be the cause of any national or economic strife.
SO WELL DONE LINZI
Al theturtleshead

[quote=Ekke;210409]I had started a thread in the Sub-Saharan Africa forum lamenting the fact that all the challenging routes from Cairo to Cape Town were in the process of being paved. Bye bye adventure!

Uganduro piped up with the friendly quote above insulting anyone who would think of doing the Cairo - Cape Town for the adventure. You "filthy rich overlanding types"!

So, are we all being selfish and brainless if we are sad to see the end of the adventure?[/quote]


Lets just leave Uganduro to save the planet, eh, Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Hi Al,

Fair one mate - agreed.

Good for you:thumbup1:

Never see what in real life? :confused1: The charity, local people, donations or the benefits of donations? Because it's easy as to witness everything especially if you directly donate your time and/or money on site in a community. I've done it.

That sounds like a conscience quick fix to me. What about the long run?
"Huge bureacratic charities" have their place.

No Quick Fix
 

There is no quick fix.All there will be is some smiling kids with a happy memory!!!
Al theturtleshead

Been there,Done that
 

Done the time and money thing for charities here in South America and generally not come away happy.
Al theturtleshead

I meant a conscience quick fix for whoever's taking the stuff - not the kiddies.

That's a shame mate. I know, perhaps, a dozen people who have done it and all felt (myself included) it was a very positive experience for both sides. But then, not everyone will have such a good time.

So
 

If everybody,s happy where,s the problem?
Al theturtleshead

Another fair one, mate. I guess it's all good if the folk doing the giving are doing it for the right reasons, and I suppose it isn't a bad thing even if they're not. If those who can, help those who need it then, as you say, it can't be bad.

Africa
 

Having both traveled in and worked in Africa (TZ) I can say is that for people who like to ride we have at least another century of places to visit on this continent. We just have to look at Africa, the only countries that really have infrastructure is Namibia, south Africa etc. That in it self says something.

Try the 80 km stretch North East of Livingstone, Zambia to see what the major highways are like. Ok there is a Chinese company building a new road there now because the money they kept donating for it to be done kept going missing?? Anyway another year and it should be complete.

Has anyone ever rode on the major highways in Mongolia?? They are all 100 mts wide all over the country, people just drive anywhere and this is what damages the environment more so than a major highway.

Africa does need a major road system so they can move produce and freight around and across the continent. So I say yes let the large companies do this. We don't have to ride on them do we? Or if we need to get somewhere in a hurry use them. Everywhere changes, it must. Maybe its not for the better for some but it is progress and that happens everywhere.

Personally I love to ride around Africa, it thrills me to see how this place works, or doesn't work! I am happy at present that they have not made many places "World Heritage" there yet as they have in Australia. Just try and go into the rain forest in North Queensland now!!

We all know that the majority of us aren't filthy rich, ok maybe there were 2 riders and camera crew and back up cars that did the ride that were but over all most of us only own the bike and whats on it when they do this trip.

Anyway, I say enjoy while you can.

Cheers

Well I have to explain a little. I have thought through all the pros and cons of aid and I feel it right to help some people in two tiny, Saharan oases. I am taking the things to the teachers to distribute so I am not in the picture. Personally I'd rather run over the scum in UK who need help. There's supposed to be a system in what's supposed to be a democracy. Funny Al we're both Scots. Linzi.

On second thoughts. While I live on the south coast of England and find the people unfriendly and selfish not by any means all English are so. It's just concentrated down south and especially in London. On the problems of charity I agree it is a mine field. But in contacting one of the teachers I learnt of their own association set up to help the people of a really remote oasis. Two Singer sewing machines were donated by some Belgians. This is to, "help the women earn some money". I am a bit taken aback at the apparent sexism but I am just a visitor and neither critic nor changer. There are only 10 children and the school is seemingly a shaded wall or room with no roof. I wish to help them and decided to do so. If others don't want to that's fair enough. Criiticize this and I'd say something rude which I'll hold back from saying. Linzi. Live and let live.

On third thoughts. If anyone's interested in an advanced, well thought through aproach to helping in a poor country it's worth checking out a site set up by a Dutch woman. Sahara Roots - Home She wrote a booklet for the children in a Moroccan village. The village suffers from thrown away rubbish and encroaching sand dunes "desertifiction". The beauty of her idea was to return after a few months and question the children on their understanding of the story. The best answer recieved a prize. The idea to show that nothing comes as a freebie. I am still using my limited IQ to try and apply the same to my trip--seriously any ideas would be welcome. I can give the teachers useful materials but the toys/ activities side of it has been worrying me for a week or two now. Who wouldn't want a football as a six year old? All the things I am taking will be the responsibilty of the teacher so I don't upset any of the social structure. And I don't know if I can match numbers of items to numbers of kids. A little research into Morocoo will show that there's racism, prejudice and lack of Government help in these areas. In one the Government in 1971 built a dam to "better distribute the water from the Atlas mountains" to the towns at the foot of said mountains. This stopped the flow of the water 400 km south towards the Sahara. Nothing short of disastrous for the people living along what had been a river. In this case some of those people are trying to help each other. So I shall "lend a hand". Then I'll go tearing around destroying the peace and quiet and endangering the locals as I normally do. Linzi. Loud pipes save lives!

What!?!
 

Some of the other points you've raised are valid ones. And I think that what you have done in the past and what you are planning to do again has a lot of merit.
But your above statement is ridiculous! :nono: Just because the system is crap, you are prepared to forget about the problem. What about trying to change that system? There are real people in your own country who are in need of genuine help (not to say that you still shouldn't help people overseas), and if you don't agree with that, then I think that's very conceited, narrow minded and just plain mean.

For someone who seems so righteous, you surprise me. I'm sure that you didn't mean that rubbish literally, but your sentiment still comes through - GET A GRIP. There there are plenty of wealthy people in poor troubled countries, like Zimbabwe for instance, who think that their own poor folk are scum too... and look where they ended up.:thumbdown:

Hi, sorry for not knowing where NFA is, but the reason that I have given up on UK completely is that I have been treated like a scum bag by the whole system. I resent being spied on by camera all the time and there is nothing I can do to change it. I am outnumbered by others who don't think as I do. That's part of democracy. I want to get rid of my UK nationality and leave. I have been hauled before the courts and was completely innocent. The legal system here is not good. Better anywhere else or better than other places? Don't know but I have had enough. The Brits can have their islands. I want out. That's all. I will no longer be part of all that this country does and is. Just trying to stay happy. Linzi.

I'm sorry to hear that you've had a rough time of it. I've spent a lot of time in the UK, amongst other places, and I understand your reasons for wanting out. But is that really the fault of genuine homeless and needy British folk? If you said that you'd rather run over the politicians then, fair one. But perhaps you wrote without really thinking what you were saying?

BTW: No Fixed Abode.

damn straight
 

Sounds like you,re ready for Colombia
Al theturtleshead

Ah! I was thinking New Foundla..nope North..nope. OK what I mean is I am sick of people here begging. I can't explain my own mentality when I say I would mug someone rich sooner than beg. Pride? I really don't know. The UK has more than enough of everything for there to be no poverty but again poverty such as I saw in friendly Colombia blew my mind. For people to scrounge in UK makes me sick. Then again we're out and about still killing people in overseas lands using the Ministry of DEFENCE! Defence using assault weapons and texhniques! Defending what exactly? I want to distance myself from what UK has become especially in last 10 or so years. Everyone else seems to be OK with us having a modern military system and using it. I'd rather help others where and when I can. But now I say IF they deserve it. For me that means outside UK. There are plenty of others who can and should help inside UK. I'm on benefits at the moment and can still just afford to visit Morocco---I hope I struggle back out! I'll be sleeping in a bivi bag and have NO budget for food. I hope "she'll be right"! The UK is just beyond my understanding now. Haves, poor, benefit fraud, benefit wastage, corruption and yet they'll have the Olympics there! **** the poor. We'll build up Seb Coe's reputation instead. Fair enough, but not with my support or association thank you. Happy riding all, without surveillance cameras. Linzi

Just read your posting Al. Hee Hee. Colombia. I've just separated from a Colombian woman who became too controlling. Funny for me to see, she from Mars, he from Venus! I visited Santa Marta, Tyrona Park, Barranquilla, Cartagena and Bogota, flying to get there--wimp! My impressions of Locombia? Wow! God it's beautiful. Wow! I love the weather. WOW! The women are so ....sexy. I thought immediately how I'd love to razz around, sorry tour around on a trail bike. Locals warned me off. Things have changed. I got as far as costing the trip and planned to sell the story but simply couldn't front up the cost. £1,400 to ship the bike out and back. Maybe £1,600 for all costs for a few months. I had to curb my ambitions so settled on Morocco. I've got a "bad back" so options are limited. E-bay beckons, robbing a , oops no that's not allowed! I've wondered about setting up a charity to benefit Berbers in the Atlas mountains and suck the UK's rich for all they're worth! Robbing Hood Charity with an Arab cloak as symbol! Seriously, at the moment I'm just in final stages of staggering off to beg off Moroccans for a few weeks in the sun then back to UK for the depths of winter. I hope to sell my story to several magazines but who knows? Probably get bitten by a rabid dog ( got all other immunizations except rabies!) Still haven't decided if I'll splash out on travel/medical insurance or add to the adventure feel. My bike's green card cover is to be 3rd party only----no theft insurance! Cripes, it's an adventure already! Live Wild, Linzi.

What web site is this again?
 

I'm all for progress and I have dedicated my entire professional life as a transportation engineer to the civil service so I can certainly appreciate the impact that transportation infrastructure has on the socio-economic life of a region. But... I think that this website is about motorcycle travel. To that end I stand by my original comment that it is a sad state of affairs when the adventure disappears from the classic overland route of Cairo to Cape Town. If this were a website dedicated to improving the lives of Africans I would certainly agree that my comments were "selfish and brainless" but the reality is that this website caters to the "filthy rich overlander types". As an aside, we may not be filthy rich at home (except for that pair of famous actors mentioned above) but when you ride through Ethiopia and realise that your jacket is worth more than the average annual salary of ten Ethiopians you quickly realise that you are indeed filthy rich.

If you go to the "Which Bike?" forum you'll find that discussions usually centre around whether an R1200GS is better than a KTM 990 not whether a Gold Wing is better than a K1200LT. There is a forum dedicated to 4x4s not one to camper vans. That's because this website is for adventure travel. If adventure disappears then it is most certainly a sad day for the users of this website.

If I would have made my comments in the "You can make a difference" forum you bet I would have been out of line but in the Sub-Saharan Africa forum I think it was perfectly OK to bemoan the loss. Maybe if Uganduro would have approached the topic a little more tactfully I would have been much more amenable to agreeing with him (or her) but the manner in which this was presented certainly raised my hackles.

Damn Linzi, I don't mean to sound patronizing, but I actually feel sorry for you. I know what it's like to be stuck somewhere you hate. I reckon getting out of it is the best thing you can do. If you ever seriously plan to leave, then check out New Zealand, it's a great place to live. If you do ever find yourself there then drop me a line, I could hook you up with digs, and maybe even work. I'm in Europe for a while though, but I have plenty of bike friendly mates back home.

I'm in the South of France at a mates house for a wee while so if you need a place to pitch your tent and have a hot brew on your way south then drop me a line. I'm also heading to Morocco once my bike is fixed, maybe I'll see you on the road.

Best of luck with the planning. And don't worry too much about budget - mine's almost nonexistant! Just wing it.

Hi Cannuk, if that's an OK address for a Canadian. By the way I went to school in Vancouver and think maybe I left my heart there. I agree the attack on your posting was overly aggressive. The world's a complex place though. I can see that one person's lovely wilderness is another's local hardship. Think of Siberia as one. But as for jackets, and this is said with a smile: My jacket cost £10 which must be less than 20 Canadian Dollars. I got a second hand German army skiing smock. Baggy, white, cotton, long zip, hooded. It goes over armour and a core cooler at the shoulders. I was advized by a Moroccan to cover up as they do. But on balance I'd have to say that a lot of travellers don't really take in a lot of what they pass through or "see". But then again in Morocco's case most visitors race around Paris Dakar fashion in a huge sand pit. Each to their own. Personally I hope to meet no English speakers on my travels and want to explore as remote places as I can on a 70's road bike. Surprisingly a lot I hope. I admit if I had some spare cash I'd hire a KTM too and roar over the landscape. It must be fun! I'll have to stick to the hard top. Hope your not too frozen up there at the moment! Linzi

You don't seem selfish or brainless at all mate, but...

...I don't know that adventures are really disappearing, ok, maybe some are, but we just have to seek new ones. That is what adventure's all about for me - going the way you planned only to find out that it's blocked and you have to make it up from there.

Like I said before, I don't think the two issues need to be enemys.:thumbup1:

To the cuddly white bear: Hi. Politely, but I don't seek simpathy. That is meant not to sound angry! South of France you lucky Bugg... In a past life I went on a Jumbo to Australia. I could have had a stop over anywhere on the planet for no cost! Hm. Hm. Ah. New Zealand. I set off round North Island on my mountain bike and 6 weeks became a year ( max visa for us) On return I did the same. Must have been mad. Could have visited South America or Asia. But had South Island to visit! Still haven't seen it all though. My original plan to Morocco was to explore French coast down to Pyrennese then race through them and use bendy roads in Spain to Morocco. Costs now suggest a direct, economical cruise to Morocco! Damn no fun! I really find it hard to keep the throttle at economical for long with the tuneful Italian exhaust system on my bike.
Where in France are you hibernating? I hope to depart UK in 3 weeks and head down Atlantic coast to Basque lands then diagonally across Spain. Cross via Ceuta. ASP left into Rif mountains at first on coast then to ridge and through to the Algerian border. Saidia is a beautiful resort. Deep breath then point south via interesting roads/ country to emerge viewing the plains to the Sahara. Now I set off over a piste SE to arrive at the main road near the teacher's house. We'll then ride to Iche and the school. This hamlet is at he point of the Moroccan border where it turns west after coming south from the Med. It's 50km from Figuig. I might try for my bike's max top speed on the lonely, straight there then again maybe I won't in 40C!
Next stop is on Algerian border west of Taouz and Erfoud. The school isn't even on google earth! Ramlia, youtube shows road bikes negotiating the "river" there. That will be interesting for me!!! But this piste is very busy and when I get stuck I'll no doubt have French, Belgian, German, French hands to push me along. It's a safe way to experience the outback offroad on a road bike. Also Mohammed offered to take his car so it can't be THAT bad can it? Advice on conditions is available with water and fuel at Ramlia and I plan to either head north to explore Todra, Dades gorges and Atlas or if washed out roads are too bad I would return south via Draa valley and then west to the coast and lie around doing nothing or maybe not. Morocco beckons, Linzi.

I'm currently about 3 hours east of Biarritz, but in three weeks I'll probably be in Spain somewhere... hopefully! Maybe we'll meet on the pistes.

I can't help you with too much much North African planning as I've yet to go there, but if you pitch up a post in one of the other forums, someone will be able to help.

:offtopic: Sorry for hi-jacking the thread folks.

The way to tell my red '79 Moto Guzzi Le Mans from all the others in Morocco this winter is mine has black panniers! Linzi. Hoot and brake if we pass.

Will do. I'm on a green XTZ660 with soft luggage.

Hang on, hang on.
 

Linzi, you're on benefits you say? Those would be the benefits paid to you by the State you so despise coming from the taxes of those round you? Interesting, and you're going to Morocco? Would that be a legitimate job-seaking trip perhaps? Oh no, wait you've got a "bad back", not so bad you can't get on a bike and ride all the way there though.

And you'd like to see the beggars run over?

By keeping my bike off the road and eating almost nothing for six months I can skimp round Morocco. There are various benefits including disability benefits. Yes I have a bad back--how would you like L2 and L3 fused? L4 and L5 fused? I have a stiff back, risk a wheel chair if I crash and have pain every night. I must stretch a lot, daily or I'll end up like Quasy Modo. Where there's a will there's a way. My doctor told me to go to somewhere warm in winter. This type of arthritis is worse in cold and damp. I have made up a refridgerated pannier! To hold the injictions I must take each 2 weeks. They must stay refridgerated. You try that then! Begers belief eh? Don't comment without knowing what you're talking about. Linzi.

Akex +1.......................

As I said, if you don't know what you're talking about you shouldn't comment. I'm not going to justify myself. Converstion over. Linzi.

Oh no, Linzi you have my hugest sympathy about the fused back, my mum has had similar with the addition of various bits of titanium (enough to make her beep at airports), add in her diabetes too and I appreciate the refridgerating needs (you might try Googling for diabetes transport, she's got a fantastic pouch system which cools with the addition of water and lasts for about 48 hours).

What got my back up was the complaining about a State which is giving you support and then setting off on a challenging motorbike trip when you have a "bad back". You got the end of my wrath which was triggered by a Goldwing mounted ex-pat on yesterday's ride out - who was so happy to tell everyone how he'd managed to pull a fast one and retire early to France getting full disability benefits, and his wife getting full carer's allowance - and how that meant they could afford to go off for weeks at a time on the recliner on wheels. He had absolutely no shame in admitting he was as fit as a fiddle.

Personally as an Brit in France I'm disappou)inted when I go back to the UK to see what's happened in the 11 years I've lived abroad. I didn't move here because I hated the place, I moved here because I fancied someone and had a job to go to. I've met ex-pats who did move because they think Britain's gone to the dogs, and they continue to moan about it and don't seem to be able to enjoy either the good bits of Britain nor of their adopted country, I think it's something in their spirit. The one's who do enjoy themselves and get the best out of life are those who have resolved their issues.

So, if you don't mind a patronising tip from a Brit abroad, start looking around you and enjoying what you can where you are. Then you'll enjoy yourself more whichever country you end up in.

Apology accepted
 

Hi, sorry for being so blunt. May I say when someone (moi) can ride a bike to and around Morocco then they must be able to work. Useless for me to counter that perspective. However. Dr says not to lift more than 20kg-ever. Physio put it better when she saw me as frustrated at being knackered and warned me, "If you need to lift something, don't grit your teeth and just get it over---get someone else to lift it." A ten year old would do! I must not sit all day or stand all day. I cannot therefore do any job that I have done in the past or am qualified to do. An officer in a careers office advised me not to use a CV in my case. Now there are many younger people looking for work. I am old enough to have been left out. Give up? Me? no! I must MAKE work. This I am trying to do. For self confidence and self asteem I want to pull off this trip. The bike's not up to it. I'm not physically fit for it. Must be mad. In a way I am but my brain is still that of an acheiver which can't accept giving up. As for work. I can't offer an employer that I will be fit for 40 hours a week on certain days. The doctor said I'm 80% disabled! From day to day my condition changes. This morning gone were the muscle spasms in my lower back and painful neck stiffness. Wow! But my left wrist is now stiff and has limited movement. I really want to get a breath of fresh air. ie travel a bit. I know that my bike might break down and I know that the ride down might be agony and last weeks rather than days. I hope the sun and heat will work wonders. I hope that meeting happy people, such as I have read Moroccans are, kills my negativity and returns my faith in human nature. And I hope I can fix ANY thing which might stop my bike. Guzzi reliability depends on peparation of course--I have reason to be concerned.I have tried to get work but ageism is alive, "When did you last work and where?" crops up. I remember an Animals song--sort of remember it! I may smile but it covers up the truth. In the song he'd lost his love. For me I am still wondering how I am going to earn enough to retire in such a short time. I don't need sunglasses for my bright future! But I see around me people who are scroungers. I paid taxes--still do. I have to relocate to a cheaper country. For me there is no future here. More's the pity. Stay rubber side down, Linzi.

the comment that one does realize the importance of good transport infrastructure connecting countries, but nevertheless starts complaining about 'lost' motorcycle adventures,
does prove selfishness, doesn't it?

But it shows even more absolute hypocrisy...



And really, if one can't find bad unpaved roads in Africa for an adventure because the chinese paved a few hundred kms of MAIN roads, I wouldn't call that person intelligent.

Completely blind maybe.


So now you can start more topics: "Why is it hypocrite to get paid for infrastructure improvements in Canada, and complain about the same improvement (albeit on a much lower level) in some dirt poor countries?"

Or "Am I now blind or brainless when I am not able to find >99,99% of the road network in Africa? (both, but i am not sure I posted it in the right hubb section...it seems to matter a lot")

I can understand and agree with the perspective that you initially aired in this other thread that then prompted this thread.

However, despite not reading the initial thread concerned, I get the impression you took Ekke's point a bit too literally, IMHO.

I would be both surprised and dismayed if there was anyone on this forum who would put a a few 100 KMs of laughs ahead of a country's/folk's well being. That does not mean they don't have the right to miss those few 100 KMs of laughs and perhaps even moan about it when they are gone...

If the powers that be told Ekke, "Ok, down to you Ekke ol' bean. We can leave as is, or cover it up... your fun, or a country's properity...What's it gonna be?"

Surely, you would agree that paving would be the outcome? Doesn't mean he can't be sad to see it go, does it....?

I'll be sad when the Argentine Ruta 40 is all paved, but I would not actually want Argentina to leave it as ripio for the sake of us travellers/tourists

I think it all needs to be seen in context...