Moving to UK, Where to Live?
 

Hey all,
I'm currently in Chicago (originally from India) and been in the States for about 10 years and am ready for a change. I've always wanted to live in Europe and after doing bike trips to Mexico and Alaska, I'm planning to do a trip through South America next year and move across the pond at the culmination of that trip (as I wont be allowed back in the US, work permits expiring and all that...).

I'm currently researching what it would take to move to the UK and what kind of jobs I can find there (I'm a mechanical design engineer). And as I'm seeing job postings, I'm curious as to where to choose to live in the UK.

I'm wondering if you could chime in on what the character is of different regions and maybe suggest some places that meet some of these needs:
- access to good motorcycling roads :scooter: (Does living in London really hamper how much you can ride/drive?)
- close to the sea or other natural formations (the flatness of the Midwest is getting to me :wacko: )
- I think I prefer smallish cities (< 80K pop.), but still require a large enough city to have some good engineering jobs
- I know the weather's generally damp, but are some places better than others? like the south-west?

- What's different about living in Scotland vs England? I've seen some good opportunities in Edinburgh and hear it's a great place to live.

- What's the consensus about Greater London?

I presume the further you are from a big city, the easier it would be afford a place with a garage, right? I currently live in the burbs so that I can afford a garage for the bikes :thumbup1:

OK, so I'm biased, but, if you can get a job here, it has to be Scotland. :) I live in Edinburgh and in no time you can be in the highlands on the UK's best, least cluttered roads. As a lover of wild, open spaces, I couldn't live anywhere else in the UK.

The major downside? The weather, it's pretty crappy, particularly this summer! :(

The upside? Too many to mention, but the main two for me are 1) the beautiful, wild mountains, lakes and beaches and 2) it has a FAR lower poulation density than the rest of the UK, with all that entails. Look at a map of the UK. England/Wales combined are a bit bigger than Scotland, but not much. Down there: 55 million people. Up here: 5 million people. It just makes for a much nicer place to live in my book.

This is not to say I'm one of those sassenach bashing jocks, my Dad is English, as are many of my friends, I have even lived down there. (Sheffield-not bad actually)

Edinburgh is a great place to live. Nice architecture and history, easy access to the north, nearby beaches and country, good places to eat, more culture than you can shake a stick at.

As for London, I have friends who live there and nothing (and I mean nothing) would induce me to join them!

Matt :)

Edinburgh
 

I loved it so much I moved to Colombia.No seriously it,s a stunning city architecturaly and historicaly,where so much science and engineering began.
I did a tour of Europe a few years back taking in Paris,Florence,Vienna,Prague,Munich,Lublijana and Budapest.The last city visited and the one I known best from my childhood was Edinburgh.
Edinburgh stands shoulder to shoulder with any European city.The Scots are a great and noble race and the modern world owes much to our hard work and inventivness.
Yep I,ve even convinced myself.
Al theturtleshead
but there are more hot chicks in Colombia!!!

I'd echo what Matt said. You could also look at Aberdeen. There are plenty of oil related jobs up there. The roads in Scotland are less crowded than England, although there are some great roads down there for a bike.

Well Im English and got to add my tupence worth. Many places in England, wales and Scotland have the bits you listed. But I would agree with everyone else so far avoid London, it does not tick any of your boxes. Edinburgh ticks almost all except it is quite a bad spot for the weather. The West of the country has a lot more rain than say the east side, A lot of the south of england is more heavily populated than the north and as such very busy roads higher living expences etc (Mind you Edinburgh is pricey) Yorkshire (Dales and Moors area Outstanding English countryside but again pricey and slim on the job front, North east / Newcastle / Northumberland has a lot of what you ask Jobs in Newcastle, good roads Northumberland /lake district and Scotland all in easy reach, Dry climate. but like everywhere it has its downsides. For me your best to come ride around see what appeals look at Edinburgh a lot and Scotland and Wales (For the scenery) then get the boat to Norway and see the full scale finished product (scenery that is). If i could do it my choice would be to live summers in Scandinavia and split that with a winter job in central Europe - Germanys a good choice for high living standards , engineering excellence etc. The Uk has a lot of problems that will be getting worse in the future so it would not be my first choice if emmigrating from abroad.

you want to move to europe i want to move to usa, take my place and job in ireland and i will take yours.

Fair trade or what?:clap:

South West
 

As far as I'm concerned, it has to be the South West...Somerset, Devon or Cornwall. If you want a city, try Bristol or Exeter, if you want more rural then there are dozens of options. Amazing pubs, superb coastline and London 2-3 hours on the train! Good luck. :clap:

I'd say look at the north-west, and my favourite city would be Lancaster (well I lived there for 7 years so I would). It's small enough to be friendly, but has a huge student population so there's plenty going on. There's also all manner of theatre, art, art-house cinema, sports, and strange weird groups meeting in tiny pubs. Property still isn't that expensive, you're ten minutes from Morecambe bay, one of the finest there is as far as I'm concerned with the veiws across to the Cumbrian fells which are 40 mins or so up the A6, then there's the Fylde coastline down to Blacpool, very flat, but fantastic roads in their own way, and the Forest of Bowland is just out the back, with yet more great roads. There's also (or there was) a big biking scene with plenty of people riding out on Sunday mornings to various watery places.

Mancester's not far away either if you want a big city, Scotland's a couple of hours away tops and Yorkshire is just across the border, but we don't talk about them.

The only downside, it can be a bit rainy, but when it's not it's often sunny (Morecambe Bay has it's own microclimate).

Oh and you can get a ferry from Heysham to the Isle of Man for the TT

Matt,
That's what I thought about Edinburgh and after seeing numerous gorgeous views of the Scottish Highlands, I definitely want to visit them and maybe live there. I also checked out your website for your trip to Nepal. Too bad it ended short, but hey, it's an adventure. :thumbup1:

When you say crappy weather, what exactly do you mean? Does it rain every afternoon? What kind of rain is it? Light constant stuff, or heavy downpours? In India, I've experienced Monsoons - non-stop rain for about 3 weeks at a time. Does it hail? (I experienced that in Montana this summer on the bike) I enjoy riding in the rain while I'm out touring, but it might be a drag if it's raining everyday at home for simple day trips.

Haha, I can't wait to find out for myself when I visit Columbia next year :tongue_smilie:

Thanx for that macro-level description. Yeah, I've been reading climate plots of the UK trying to understand general climate trends and that's what I saw too - the mountains in the west cause a lot of rain there and then there's generally a big rain shadow on the eastern part of the island, but it still rains there too...

I hear you on the problems in the UK and initially I was looking into moving to France (speak the language) or Germany but after research into their immigration policies, I found the UK to be the best to work with my trip to South America. France is just not looking at welcoming immigrants (non-eu) these days and I was really into Germany (the auto industry and location to tour eastern europe), but they require you to be in your current country of residence for 3 months before moving over and that wouldn't work for me once I left the US.

The UK has this high-skilled migrant program, where they're looking at attracting young high skilled labor and I qualify for it and it takes only about 5 weeks to process. I could easily spend 5 weeks in Brazil... :Beach:

And then I got thinking that working in a non-English engineering environment would actually be quite difficult unless I got into one of the big global multi-nationals and I'm kinda done with the big corporate environment.

So, when the UK started looking like the best option, the more I read about it, the more I figured it's the better choice regarding jobs, motorcycling community, travel access, etc. But I'm aware of the downsides (weather, high cost of living, increased governmental oversight, traffic cameras, clampers, high cost of petrol, red tape, etc.).

Sounds good, mate :biggrin3: I've got a close friend in Dublin/Kilkenny and once I'm across the pond, I'm definitely touring around Ireland for a while. I hear it's really beautiful and of course, then there's Guinness. :thumbup1:

Great, that's what I've been reading too. That's like the real countryside of England, right? How's the weather generally there? And I presume it would be less crowded than slightly east of there, right? Been reading great things about Exeter.

Hmmm, the Lake District... I've read quite a few Jack Higgins' novels that involve that area. Student population definitely a plus - adds some vibrance to the location. I'll look into more.

Can someone explain how when England, Scotland, Wales and NI are all considered countries, the UK is also considered a country...? :confused1:

It's terrible on my part, but I learned from Braveheart that the Scots don't like to be associated with England or maybe even Britain, so how is it all working out these days? Is there some dissent? I hear there's some breakaway rumors...

So everyone in the UK is considered British first, then they're either English, Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish, right? But I guess the Scots done like to be called British, right? How do the passports work? Does everyone get a UK passport?

I love history and I'm definitely going to be reading up a lot about how the UK came to be and I figured I should know more about the British Empire, since it directly influenced life in India and the rest of the world for better or for worse.

suck it and see!
 

It's a lovely idea asking people where to live and work, but it's like asking a crowd of people which bike to ride or which watch to wear. Each country/city has its own charm. Find a town, find a job, if you don't like it after six months, move on somewhere else. Yes, most people see themselves as Brits on the world stage; some people are more fussy about exactly where they come from ie.Londoners/Bristolians. Don't worry about it. Just enjoy!

ah ya its not bad spot at all, just weather is a bit un predictable lately and npt the best but still good social life so drop on over

You're correct - all of us are British, but English people have the habit of referring to the UK as England. Since the time of Thatcher, much resentment was caused in Scotland by her government's anti Scottish policies, leaving us all now with a drift away from the the UK. "Britain", as you say, means also the "UK." And with any smaller country adjacent to a larger one, you tend to get people being assertive about their culture etc. Scotland has 5 million to England's 60.

All have the same passport, a British or UK passport.

Braveheart, I'm sorry to say, is Tartan Hollywood, portraying the "evil" English, and the "brave" Highlanders. It follows the cliches of a Western movie. None of this is accurate.

Incidentally, Scotland holds two main cultures - the Highland area - initially Gaelic speaking, and Lowland Scotland, which always spoke what we now call English (Northern English) since varieties of that language formed in these islands. The Scots were historically hostile to the Highlanders, and were part of the army which routed them at Culloden. Scots kings passed a number of laws against Highlanders.

After the Highlanders were defeated, many emigrated to, for example, the US, or Australia, where they inflicted the same horrors on Native Americans or Aborigines, that were inflicted on them.

Excellent, thanx for that bit of history. Helps me understand the culture and how present sentiments were formed.

Regarding financial matters, there's no difference in income tax and health care between any of the UK's countries, right?

I think to understand the difference you would need to live here. To understand the reasons for the difference you would need to learn the history. The above brief of Scottish history is not really correct.

The Clearances were not really an emigration, in the sense of choosing a place in the sun.

The Enlightenment was only possible because of the union with England, 1707. The Enlightenment meant Scotland led the world in many fields, for a brief time. This happened after the last rebellion, and resulted in Scots doing some pretty amazing things in this world. The argument now is whether the union is holding Scotland back, whereas before it clearly benefited Scotland.

It's wrong to say that the Highlanders only went off and raped and pillaged the lands they ended up in.

The Scots (who are they?) were not historically hostile to the Highlands. That's misleading when you don't clarify the period or the region. Scots (old) have ruled all the way down to Northumbria, with the whole country united during periods.

Highlanders fought Highlanders at times. Clan rivalry coming before anything else. It wasn't simply a lowland v highland thing. All sides were at Culloden, and the other fights.

However, Scotland has a much longer history as a country in its own right than it does as part of the UK. The Thatcher years were just one time of many where Scottish interests have been ignored in favour of the English voters/interests. Long before Thatcher there have been problems with conflicts of interest.

But, this isn't a history web site. So....

Regarding finance, tax is the same (for now). Regarding health, although Scotland was the leading force in health (a way back now) we are lumbered with the same inept administration as most developed countries and the health system is not as good as it could be. You will always be treated in an emergency though, and it's free.

Dear Jammin - are you mental?!

Exactly - the cost of living here is atrocious - (real world) inflation is currently running at 30%, fuel prices are extortionate, there are more speed cameras and CCTV in this country than any other in the world, yet crime (particularly petty, anti-social, and even serious violence) continues to increase... and don't get me started on the petty bureaucracy and countless laws that have been introduced that seem to only affect/restrict/oppress the law abiding...

If you do decide to come to the UK, for goodness sake live in the south east so you can get to the rest of Europe quickly...

Seriously.

xxx

with respect, he'd have to be mental to live in the south east. it's only 8 hours to france from edinburgh, and less from most parts of northern england. and the north is even closer.

classic british/english association, from today:

LONDON (Reuters) - Young Britons are to get the chance to go to the theater for free in a bid to drum up new audiences, the government said on Tuesday.

The 2.5 million pound scheme, which will run from February 2009, will involve 95 venues across England with a proportion of tickets given away free to anyone under 26.

Oh I agree, which is why I moved from Sussex to Wales... but I'm sure you appreciate I was being somewhat facetious... x

Mind you, goodness knows how you can get from Edinburgh to France in 8 hours? - unless you fly...

xxx

throttle to the stop, and inside the channel tunnel train before the door closes (or it goes on fire!)

Hee hee - and at 2am I reckon... that's gotta be some going fella!

xxx

Hi Jammin,

To answer your question about the weather: the rain here doesn't really fit into any particular 'type' - we get all sorts! Being close to the ocean and all that entails means our weather is very unpredictable. The last couple of years have been quite poor weather wise, but we do sometimes have good years, you just have to be philosophical about it. If you go out often enough you'll have soon crappy days and some good, and even some fantastic ones. The weather is undoubtedly better down south but, personally, I feel our poor weather is outweighed by the other benefits of living in Scotland. One thing you'll learn if you come here is the importance of good weather-proof gear!

Regarding British History: it is enormously complicated and open to interpretation. The main thing to realise is that, save for a tiny minority of small minded bigots and half-witted football fans, we all get on pretty well. :)

Matt :)

The media have never been too worried with accuracy. According to ABC news in the US last week, Lloyds of London was taken over by a bank in Scotland, in other words, wrong Lloyds, wrong way round, but for 200m Americans, who cares?

I think Jammin is over-researching the issue. As mountainboy suggested, look for a job, check the salary, check local house prices or rents, go on a few tourist sites, local forums whatever, then decide if it's somewhere you want to live.

I too love mountains and the coast but I don't live near either and I'm not planning to uproot the family just to improve my quality of life by a few degrees. Compared to the US, the UK is tiny and you're never too far from anywhere. From Leicestershire, I can get cross-country to Wales, the Lake District, or the West Country in a few hours. And roads around here are okay for biking too.

Having said that, if I had a blank canvas like Jammin, I'd think seriously about Scotland too. Don't mind the weather, great roads, scenery, less crowded, and as somebody mentioned on another part of the HUBB, a new ferry service starting up to Holland soon so you don't have to suffer riding down through England (which will keep both sides happy!)

Indoors,

with regards to scotland
 

I live up in the north east coast of scotland just north of aberdeen, there is a huge shortage of engineering staff in the oil industry so plenty of jobs at the moment.
Weather is not as nice up here as it is in central scotland or england it is colder but we get less rain than the west coast of scotland. Its not like hot countries that have set seasons and the weather gets very random all year round and can change even a few miles away with all the micro climates from the small coves, glens ect.

gaelic language is mostly west coast and islands of scotland, not really highlanders and even then very few speak it there.

Roads are ok not any motorways up here at best you will get a 2 lane dual carriageway and theres not many of them north of aberdeen. Most all year bikers are considered mental as lots of ice in winter so you may want a car for oct/nov-march. OH and they favour the throwing lots of loose stones on a bed of tar method on a lot of roads up here[ letting the cars flatten it] so beware.

House prices vary, a bit expensive in aberdeen and maybe upto 30 miles out then drop a huge amount 140k will get a nice 2 bedroom semi 45 minutes drive from the city centre double that for one in the city suburbs, nothing compared to english prices though. Rental of a nice 2 bedroom flat/apartment in centre of town is around £600-750 houses in the suburbs are around the same rental.

Aberdeens not really a big city 20 minutes your in the countryside, plenty of bars and clubs, a few casinos and all the usual attractions. Royal deeside is a very popular ride with bikers and it is a very pretty part of the country. Lots of nature reserves and glens to investigate as well as large amounts of trails[no bikes on them though]. The whisky trail and castle trails are also nice runs.

Scotlands not that big a place the major cities are only a few hours drive apart.

Pedantry Corner
 

Um, not sure about that.
The UK is "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland". Therefore, NI is not part of Britain, but is part of the UK.

There is no such thing as a "British Passport". Passports for UK citizens are issued by the United Kingdom Passport Authority (or Agency or whatever - but it begins with A.)

So there are 3 levels of nationality/citizenship to be confused by...

Huh?
 

Y'wha'?
Just trying to help with the original question about UK/Britain/England/Scotland/Wales/NI.
England is not Britain and Britain is not the UK. Neither England nor Britain issue passports; the UK does.

Hang on a minute...
 

...maybe I meant Great Britain, not Britain. Apparently Britain = The UK, and Great Britain = England, Scotland and Wales.

How should I know? I've only lived in it since 1966.

From Wikipedia:

" "Great Britain" refers to three quarters of the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" (UK). It refers only to the largest island within the union.
In 1975 the government affirmed that the term Britain, not Great Britain, could be used as a shortened form of the United Kingdom.[citation needed] British refers, however, to all citizens of the United Kingdom, Welsh, Scottish, English and Northern Irish."

So Britain, but not Great Britain, is the UK and therefore does issue passports.
Or summink.

Don't bother...Go to Germany!!
 

Honestly, if i were you, I'd give the UK a wide birth... This country is buggered.
The best country i have ever been to, and if i spoke the lingo i would go in a shot, is germany.
But thats just my opinion!!

I agree with that. You've got Nissan in Sunderland and all the associated companies, such as TRW, etc, manufacturing various components. Further down the road, there's Thyssen-Krupp who produce chassis components for Ford, etc. Plenty of possibilities for someone with the right qualifications.

I live about halfway between Durham and Sunderland so for rides out, if I head north, there's Northumberland and the Scottish Borders, head west and you're into County Durham, Weardale, Cumbria and the Lake District and to the south there's the North Yorkshire moors, all within a day's ride out. At present, Durham has no fixed safety (bollocks) cameras and only 2 mobile units so is top of my list but all the surrounding areas offer brilliant biking roads. There's also an overnight ferry from Newcastle/North Tyneside to Ijmuiden near Amsterdam, Holland so easy access to mainland Europe. Spoilt for choice really.

BUT....

I agree with that 100% and I am working on the language to make it happen as well. The UK is a beautiful country but the scum who live here will make it sink.

I mentioned about Durham's lack of speed cameras. The truth and this is fact, not speculation, is that Durham Constabulary is nearly bankrupt. They simply can't afford to put petrol in traffic cars to go out and enforce speed limits in remote areas. Fantastic news for those of us who want to be left alone to ride like hooligans but if that doesn't underline how far this country is up shit creek, nothing will.

Cor Blimey
 

I cant stand these people who go on the internet and brag about driving like hooligans and spoil it for the rest of us.
Al theturtleshead

Off topic but a fair point. It's not exactly a secret but I've even named the place which I said I disagreed with bike mags for doing. Bugger!

In all honesty though, you can go for a quick (but not reckless) ride through rural County Durham and be fairly confident you won't get nicked, purely because they can't afford to police it.

Germany v UK
 

Tag, ja Deutschland ist viel besser. Go for it! The language is a struggle but in virtually every way Germany is much preferable to UK now. Take care where you choose to move to as some areas are very conservative - as anywhere some folk are a bit reserved. For ME the Rhine area has wonderful pepole and I really like the mentality, open, direct honesty of the area of Bremen and south to Hanover. While beer, food and other things are great, for me it HAS to be die Frauen!!!! God above some of the achingly beautiful blond women over there and for me they are super in their mentality. My only reservation would be a memory of a group of friends in conversation years ago. All Germans, and the chat centred itself on emigrating to escape the over industrialisation and loss of quality of life and loss of peace and quiet!! Then again I met an Italian guy, asked him the time as I ---didn't know it!! Well we chatted and it turned out to be this 32 year old's last day in Germany! He'd lived there since 17 and couldn't get used to the reserve and lack of " touchy feeliness". We were in Freiburg in the Black Forest. Beer, food women and other great things but he was lonely and needed more contact. Should have gone to Bayern--Bavaria. Oh my God. Visit Bavaria. On a bike or not doesn't matter. Since my first sight of the green flowing hills, sleepy hamlets and snow capped peaks to the south, I too felt like throwing back my head and singing for the joy of living. Pick your area carefully and you could be making a very good move indeed! Viel Gluck, Linzi.

Come on now, I get asked that almost every day by my regular friends :biggrin3:
Wait till they hear the plans for South America...
Trust me, I know it sounds crazy, but being a 3rd world citizen, I have no other choice of country to move to if I want to do this South America trip. If I was just moving straight from the US, then I think I might go for Germany. I know the UK's probably not the best, but it can't be all that bad. Besides, I'm looking forward to the increased access to Curry (which I hear is becoming standard fare over there).

Fantastic, the govt's paying for movies. My kinda place :thumbup1: (let's not go into wasteful govt spending here)

Yeah, that's what I'm realizing too now. Just trying to get an idea of general climate patterns. And oh yeah, weather-proof gear - I've got a good wet weather setup now, so not an issue hopefully.

Regarding history, which I've lately taken a great interest in, it's definitely very complicated and am looking forward to learning more about the UK.
But firstly, I've got a lot of reading to do about all of Latin America for next year. :smartass:

Sure, maybe I'm over-researching, but that's how I like to do things and it's worked out well so far. And as I've said before, always being an immigrant wherever I go, I can't easily just pick up and move. A lot of thought has to go into it.

If there's a ferry service to the Continent from Scotland, that's putting the cherry on the choice of heading to Scotland.

Thanks for that detailed reply. Just the kind of info I'm looking for. Sounding like Scotland might be the choice and maybe a stint in the oil business might be financial fruitful right now (especially since I'll be almost broke when I move over after my trip). Office job is nice, but a change would be good.

Not having motorways is a plus in my view :scooter: and yup, they do that gravel treatment to my favorite twisties nearby in Wisconsin too.

And Scotch - blimey, that's another great reason to move up there. I really enjoy single malts over any other alcoholic beverage. :thumbup:

Hmm, so many good reasons to move to Scotland besides the weather, which I think I can handle (the Midwest here is known for it's unpredictability, but I'm sure not as intense as Scotland).

I've lived all over the UK (or whaever we're calling it now!) and I love the south east.

Londons close enough to visit, but best of all I get up and can be in France within the hour from where I live hence we travel to france/ belgian for an evening out, meals etc.

There are loads of plus sides about most regions of the UK and once your here your find a place that suits you.


Personally I can't wait to leave the UK permenantly next year but thats another story......

Off topic!!
 

Sorry to change the subject, but Craig, where and how are you going about learning the lingo, and how effective is it. I've thought about doing it myself... cant bear the thought of growing old in this country!!

Cheers mate!

Learning German
 

Hi Leevtr, if it's any help in 1989 I returned from 3 years down under and went straight to Germany. I couldn't say more than about 40 words. I got a job anyway and a flat to live in. I went to a book shop and bought a book and dictionary. The first book was a waste of money as it was for a teacher. I didn't read German. I bought a correct book and spent 60 minutes in a supermarket getting the basic food for a few days. I had to look in the dictionary for milk. There were seemingly hundreds of milks! OK later I learnt some were yoghurts but you get the idea I was lost! I studied at home and got better rapidly. I first learnt how to ask ( in German!) "What is that in German please? I went to the adult evening classes that are available in ALL towns to help visitors learn the Sprache. I lived in Germany for 2 1/2 years and proved that it can be done. Loneliness was the biggest problem. It helps if you're outgoing. Work mates get together and drink, tease and joke after work and being unable to understand ithem is accepted and not a problem. Now with internet etc it must be even easier. Germans love to help a visitor trying to learn. It's a gold standard ice breaker with girls too.

So: Volkshochschule : adult evening classes.

Books and tapes from bookshops.

Library for books and to bump into someone for advice.

Go to pubs and read all the free magazines and papers.

Join clubs: motorcycle, gym whatever--drinking club?

Socialize and get out there and mix.

I worked in Germany and had no instruction other than some VHS
classes each week and met other visitors which helped keep off the
lonliness.

To move there you need 1 month's rent in cash, one month's rent in
advance and a deposit. You'll need cash to cover water, electricity and
gas. That's quite a slice. It's no bad idea to rent a stationary caravan
on a long term rate. Try zypresse in Freiburg for ads and an idea of
costs. Zypresse is a weekly free paper of ads. I don't know of any in
other areas. Regards, Linzi.

Thanks!!
 

Cheers for the great reply Linzi. I've been going now every year at least a couple of times for about 4 years. Got a bit addicted to the Nurburgring you know!! I was in Baden Baden twice this year and loved it, although someone did say that Freiburg is better, more lively. I think i may well have to do some homework on this matter.
Cheers again,
Lee.

Freiburg
 

Hi, yes Freiburg is beautiful but as a slightly introverted and prone to melancholy person who needs only one person to relate to I found Freiburg soulless. I stress that's me. I was alone which didn't help. I only stress that each of us is unique and I picked the wrong part of Germany for me. I must say Freiburg has LOADS to offer though. Check out google earth west, over the Rhine to hills north east of the city of Mulhausen. this is a wonderful place to just chill out. In German it's Die Vogesen, in French les vosges. Rip roaring roads for a supermoto! Keeps your licence clean with your local Polizei! Now the gems of roads in the black forest east of Freiburg is no longer welcoming noisy, fast bikes. Disturbs the peace needed to make money from the other activities! The INCREDIBLE Schauinsland road near Freiburg is now closed to bikes on Sundays. Grr! Check out THAT snaking beauty on G Earth! The road is south east of the town leaving from a leafy suburb and as the hairpins rise up the hill the blood goes to the head and nether regions as the engine screams. After 20 turns and 250 metres higher the road shoots off for 6oom then snakes among the pines towards Switzerland. Twenty minutes later you'll dive down towards Lorrach and the crossing to the Confederation Helvetica or in English Biker Heaven! The Alps were created for turning petrol into extacy! Monday to Friday, no matter what the job entails the Alps are there. The only thing that is less good over there than here is that English is my mother tongue. I didn't have the emotional makeup or whatever to make it happen. Some people win the lottery and blow it all. That's what I did. ps the VHS classes are really cheap! Mit freundlichen Gruessen, Linzi.

Sorry folks!
 

What does ' freundlichen Gruessen, ' mean?

Sorry to everyone else, but this seems to be turning into a personal chit chat!!:smartass:

Yours faithfully
 

Hi Leevtr, literally "with friendly greetings" but actually it's the standard sign off. So it is yours faithfully/sincerely. Easier than English for once. It has to be said that Germans in writing are still more old fashioned than we are. I deal with Germans on ebay.de and often meet the official side but it's not to be misunderstood. It's just protocol. Some sign off Mit Guzzi Gruessen and they are particularly easy going. As anywhere, some are serious, some less so but Germans still lumber themselves with some stilted writing style. I once asked a young German woman how a German would begin an e-mail to a 10 person specialist bike dealer and was surprised that the full official letter version would be used! In other words "Guten Tag". Always begin with Sie until you are invited to use du. That is unless she is young, gorgeous and your chatting her up! Other bikers too if not old. Bikers means not at work, so chilling out. We dropped the equivalent thou and thee years ago but it was just the same. The French is vous and tu of course. Mit Biker Gruessen, Linzi.

This site has a lot to answer for!!
 

Think i might have to think about selling my road bike now, as i just purchased a nice shiny XR650R. Next for that big trip of a lifetime.
Oh my god what have i done!!:helpsmilie:

Wohin?
 

Where to? Linzi.

I did German at school (D-grade GCSE so not too good) then again at college as part of my engineering studies. However, if you've got some basic knowledge of the language, going there on your own for 2-3 weeks will improve your German more than a 1 night a week college course.

Was last there in May this year. Spent my first night on a campsite in Punderich on the Mosel. The guy that runs the place will tell you exactly the same as above. He lived in Edinburgh for a few years and basically taught himself as he had no knowledge of our language. He also did the same in Spain and also in Russia (Siberia) before resettling in Germany. He actually said he had to relearn some German as he'd lived away for so long. The second time I stayed there was on my way home after 2 weeks. An elderly couple from Dusseldorf, saw I was on my own and invited me to have breakfast with them. They spoke no English and I surprised myself how much my German had improved so I'm convinced that going there is the best way to learn.

The Germans are great people if you make the effort. At least try to speak some German and if they speak English, they will humour you at least. So many people make the mistake of thinking they'll offend people with their attempts so they don't bother trying which couldn't be further from the truth. For example, I spoke to a guy running a little food stall in Konigsee and I got a totally different response to the American tourists, who seemed to think if they just shouted very slowly in pigeon English, that somehow he'll understand :confused2:.

BTW, I also have a Nurburgring addiction and need to get my next fix. Can't honestly say where I'd like to live in Germany. The Mosel has great people, great roads and the 'Ring is never too far away. The Black Forest is stunning. Didn't visit Freiburg, just passed through Baden-Baden but I quite liked Freudenstadt. The B500 from Baden-Baden to Freudenstadt is biking heaven. Drop your gear off in Freudenstadt and spend a day enjoying it. Some great roads around Fussen heading into Austria and also the Alpenstrasse. Berchtesgaden and the surrounding area is very nice but it's too "touristy" for all the wrong reasons. In all honesty though, I'd probably choose the Eifel for it's cheap property and as it's easily within 3-4 hours of the ferry in Holland, probably a little further to Calais.

B500!!
 

Hi mate,
You dont need to to me about the 500. Rode it 3 times this year, the last time like a scalded cat. The local sportsbibe riders had trouble keeping up and i was on a CB 1300 naked. Fabulous road!!

Overland to OZ is the plan.
 

See above, but this may change, nothings set in stone yet.
I was trying to emmigrate there but the company sorting my visa's went under, soi i'm not sure whats going to happen. Will keep you posted.

Oz
 

Hi Leevtr, wow! nothing too unambitious then! On the Freiburg side. Here's a tip. Take it seriously! Go to Freiburg for their Weihnacht's Markt. This is a wondrous Christmas Market that simply didn't develop here when wave after wave of beer swilling medieval invaders came from what is now Germany.
Seriously the medieval town square overlooked by the gothic cathedral is decked out in colourful flags with a maze of stalls to peruse. Everyone is excited by the season and it is an unmissable insight into German culture. We must have had the same sort of thing but all we've got now is a few morris dancers and the "odd" town crier. I almost cry when I think how we've lost so much history compared to on the continent. Please, please go for the Weihnacht's Markt. Taste the gingerbread made with cinnamon, cummin, nutmeg and don't ask me what else. They offer Lebkuchen which are to die for----OK my taste I admit. I gave one to a gangly UK youth and his Yuk! reaction was worth seeing. His pallet is atuned to salt and pepper. Freiburg in the candle light of a clear winter night with crowds milling round the square is a time to enjoy Freiburg. It's my insider's tip. My abiding memory is of the happy little children hanging onto Mutti's dress and Vatti's hand. Little faces lit up in the yellow glow. Families out lazily enjoying a fabulous vibe. Sorry to say I never feel the hair tingle the way it can for me overseas some times.Not to mentioned you'll find stalls offering Gluwein. YES, now you're talking. Herbs soaked in warmed red wine. Hic! Mulled wine roughly. I think a lot of German recipes etc came over here pre Chaucer and just got watered down. Nip over to Freiburg and you'll get them full strength and in focus. Germans know how to celebrate Christmas. For me it really hits the spot. Linzi.

Im off on the bike to Germany again next week (3rd time this year), staying near the Mosel at Bernkastel Kues, mind you its about time for the Octoberfest kicking away so who knows where that will lead me to. Got to say Germany is a superb country to be in, the people are generally really friendly moreso if you make an effort and break the ice to speak. Even better in the pubs you get put on a long table to eat with total strangers so you get to socialise the german way. I speak a little german maybe understand a bit more than I am able to speak but after a short time ( and a few beers) - the language becomes easier to follow when your there. When I come home I forget most of it till I go back. Wonderful country,loads of history, great roads and scenery, nice people, good standard of living, brilliant christmas markets and localised culture its a superb European country overall. So got to agree with those in the know its one of the top places to live in Europe.

Think i've started the Germany Fan Club!!
 

You know what Linzi, it has crossed my mind to go over for xmas. One thing that stops me is that i'd rather ride over, and I've been to Germany ( Munich ) at xmas years ago and f*&k me it was cold. Probably snows in the black forest around that time to.

Leevtr - Not so cold that a hot mulled wine with a dash of brandy wouldn,t cure it at the end of a long day on the bike.

Stop it!!
 

Please please no more!! I'm having to fight the urge to book the ferry!!
Sod it, shall we all go and just get drunk on Franzikaner Weissbier for a few days!!

Bernkastel Kues is a nice place. Stayed at the Burg Landshut Hotel on the Bernkastel side last year (55 euro a night for B&B). Could do with a refurb but it's comfortable enough. Stayed at the campsite on the Kues side this year. Cheap enough but the lad who runs the place is weird to say the least.

My parents aren't motorcyclists at all but they love Germany. They're off on a Christmas market tour of the Rhine and Mosel in December this year.

You get a real sense of the focus on family at these places and events. Italy is very similar in some ways. Kind of sad that we've lost that in the UK.

Xmas in Germany
 

As for cold weather riding, check out the Exo2 heated vest. Awsome-I just wish I had one. But don't poo poo the idea of going by any other means of transport. As said also, temperatures are all over the shop these days. Linzi.

Linzi the safe and warm gear is better than the exo stuff also has arms so it keeps you all warm Lifetime warranty on the wiring and a heat trollerthat uses half the power of a comparable jacket heater - safe and warm eu in Sweden are top people who really look after their customers well.

My preferred ale is the dunkel (Dark) variety I am sure I will be able to have a dunkel for everyone to save them the trip.

Cold i can do no problem... cold and wet or snow i dont find enjoyable!!

Heated Clothes
 

Hi Jake, thanks I was going on ads and tests. The Exo2 has of course no wires and is "squaddie proof" ie soldiers don't normally wreck them. I'll check up on your tip. Other ways of staying warm; Never forget to keep the body fuelled by eating muesli bars for instance. Keep the wind off you as much as possible but I admit I'm crazy when it comes to roughing it!
To put you off going in winter, check out the eleffanten treffe. This is a winter camping/ motorcycele meeting near the Czech border! Bundesverband der Motorradfahrer e.V.: Startseite scroll down to the eleffantentreffe. The Zundapp side car combo of the war time was referred to as the elefant. Hence the Elefant Meeting. Tell me now that all Germans are logical, boring and without a sense of humour!!!! Linzi.

Elefants
 

Sorry, the site is all in German--funny that? Having clicked on elefantentreffen, click on ET links. You can at least enjoy the photos and easily imagine the chill! Linz z zi.