Have we bikers lost our manners? - Helmet tipping.
 

Out on my XT6E (red) today in this lovely weather (30 degrees). Did a short trip from Sheppey to Bexhill in Sussex and back (100 miles).

Bit hot and sticky in my full leathers especially at lights and jams. But it was glorious. I just love my single cylinder torquey bikes.

During the ride I tipped my head to a vast number of other riders passing me by on the other side of the road. This practice comes naturally to me and I have done it since I started to ride in 1980.

Nearly wiped out by a young girl driver (T boned). Good thing I was riding defensively and left a wide berth.

I can report here that about 50% of riders totally IGNORED my gesture and went speeding past without reciprocation. :thumbdown:

I have always considered us bikers to be an elite on the road - members of an exclusive club where we all help each other out if things go wrong. We also show car drivers how to drive properly particularly on rounderbouts etc. I have always considered that riding on 2 wheels improves your driving skills on 4 wheels too.

I found that riders of small capacity bikes (mopeds and learner 125's) were more inclined to reciprocate.

Yes I always tip my head to mopeds/learners and large capacity riders alike - We all started out on these things and they are on two wheels taking exactly the same risks as the larger capacity bikes.

What has happened to bikers? Have half of riders lost their manners or, did they never possess them in the first place?

AND why are car drivers not using their indicators? I noticed a driving instructor not using them and even a bloody police car!

AND why do many car drivers do right turns on rounderbout's using the LEFT hand lane?

Got my moaning head on, sorry.

Might vary abit from region to region, but certainly I have noticed a change over an almost thirty year period in western Canada. In the "old" days, a wave was exchanged between almost all bikers. These days, 50% seems somewhat reasonable.

I always attributed it, at least partially, to the growth in biking whereby people from all walks of life have bought bikes and the brotherhood/sisterhood of biking has become much larger and less tight knit.

In cities, waving is much less frequent. On the open road, much more so.

I tend to nod / wave to just about all bikers I see but the response rate varies hugely depending on what I'm riding. On a big sports bike about 50% respond or nod first but if I'm on my mid 70's 125 commuter bike I doubt if it's 10% - and they tend to be sports bike riders. I can't remember the last time I got a nod from someone on a big traillie (1200GS etc) when I'm on the 125.

Neil, in the UK I think we look like DT125 riders on the road and therefore not respecting enough for a "tip" or a nod from most sports/street bike riders.

I get a similar nod rate to you of about 50%. On a Thunderace that was pretty much 100%. 1000 Fazer slightly less and a 1200 Bandit slightly less again. Oddly, I get more wearing a motocross helmet and goggles than my Arai.

Coppers never tip back no matter what you are riding. Neither do Harley (custom) riders.

Oddly, more instructors doing CBT/DA seem to respect the XT and I have had a good amount of those on this bike.

TBH, I have lost hope so I don't nod much any more. Except to other adventure bike riders who almost NEVER nod back.

I was having pretty much the same conversation with a friend of mine the other day about the "biker nod" or lack of it.
I still give a nod to to pretty much every bike i see n would say get a 50/50 response.
Strangely enough i noticed in the crappy weather when all the weekend warrior's are tucked up warm n dry i get more response!...

I hate the nod in the UK. Much prefer the small wave/finger point in Europe. In fact I prefer the whole European bike culture. Much more inclusive. Even Harley riders acknowledge!
Rant over

Bit tricky that where it wld involve removing throttle hand, nod is just as good and any acknowledgment between bikers is a good thing.

Then again when I was in Germany this week there were so many biker waves I was getting RSI so mostly gave up.

you wave your LEFT hand to say Hi, stick out your RIGHT foot to say thanks ( to car or bike that has made way for you)

but then that is here in France, LHD :)

There is a north south divide. From Leicester up the acknowledgements increase. Plod, BMW, Harley and scooter riders are still a bit variable.

Turning right by following the left lane of a roundabout is defensive. Lots of cagers won't slow down, cut across both lanes as they go straight on ( fine if it's clear, a killer if they don't look for you). Use the left lane and you force them to stop. By the time their xr1i is back up to 120 dB you are over the horizon.

Andy

Years ago there was more camaraderie between bikers mainly I think due to oldd brit iron breaking down and other bikers stopping to help, nowadays a majority of the riders don't know a wheel spindle from a handlebar, and the bikes are so much more reliable, also bike clubs are not like they were, the whole scene as changed, remember a 'Nods as good as a wink to a blind horse'!

I've given up nodding in London, no one ever nods back but I've noticed that the further out I get in any direction the more people nod maybe you were just to close in to the big smoke.

In the US you see the same thing. We do the two finger wave here with the left hand. Much easier if your on the right side of the road instead of the wrong- I mean left side HAHA. Its about 80-85 percent and the holdouts are usually riding gold wings and the full dress Harleys. They are usually in packs and working too hard to stay in formation on their 700lb. + bikes to notice any one else. Other times the whole pack does it and your hand is out there for a week until they all go by. Can't win them all. thumpthump

I sometimes nod and sometimes wave, but I always acknowlege a fellow rider. Always have done and always will do. I've been riding for almost 35 years, and road manners in general have slipped a lot, not just amongst us.

Charlie

I ride a KLR 650 In Ireland.
It seems that the kids on sport bikes are going too fast or just feel bad for me riding a KLR and don't bother to wave.
The mob on the tourers, BMW's and the like, usually give me a royal salute as I pass them.

I wave or nod to other adventure bike riders and return the wave or nod from anyone else, when i see it.

hi
did 123 miles on my honda innova step thru in the UK the other saturday. I noded my head to numerous on coming bikes, didn't get one back. If I had been on my other bike a cb250, I would have been a bit more successful. Small bikes are mostly looked down upon here in the UK, most riders are obsessed by racy looks and speed. One of these days mpg will start to become important to all but the most well off.

Well I ride a 1200 BMW, XT660Z and 1 200cc Yamaha and get the same on all of them, mostly ignored.

Is it because they are rude or because they are not relaxed enough to not watch where their front wheel is going.

I have been known not to acknowledge another rider generally because I am doing something that requires my attention, bend, car, overtake or even a nice pair of legs.

What does upset me is when a broken down bike gets ignored, I always try to stop if I see them. Having broken down myself and just been left till the breakdown van arrived some 4 hours later.

We don't get away much on the bike but recently went for a short 3 day trip to the seaside. We left on Bastille day Sunday 14th July. The roads we're extremely quiet, temperatures were around 35C. We saw very few bikes and I don't think one acknowledged us. Monday the roads were much busier especially around the big towns (Poitiers and Niort) and every single bike waved, even the Harleys managed the cool substitute for a wave of raising a finger!. Tuesday was much the same except that we passed a few Brit bikes, as we passed we turned to give them a wave but were totally ignored. I think they were suffering in the heat.

I tend not to discriminate between different bikes, or even notice, but in general, it's not considered cool to wave at kids on 50s nor do they consider it cool to acknowledge anyone on a 'real' bike.

I haven't ridden in the UK for years but driving on the left must make a difference although I'm not really sure I'd spot a helmet tilt.

London...
 

I live in Suffolk and my girlfriend lives in London. Out in the sticks I'd say 80% of people nod/wave. In London, nobody does. But I'd say that's probably because you're too busy looking out for the next taxi/bus/range rover/cyclist/pedestrian/pigeon that wants to kill you.
The further away from London you get, the better it seems.

In Belgium, it's a wave. I nod only when my left hand is to busy to leave the clutch lever.

Most of the time, I don't wave to scooters or moped, not because I'm to cool for that; it's just that most of them are not aware of that "motorcycle culture" thing. I always wave back though.

I tip my helmet to absolutely everyone including 50cc mopeds. We all started out on these things (FS1E, AP50) and they are taking EXACTLY the same risks as all other 2 wheel riders. This seems to be forgotten by those who consider themselves superior just because they happen to be a bit older and be riding a larger bike.

I don't care if I look uncool doing this, to me it's just polite manners.

If ever I see a bike broken down at the side of the road, I will always pull over and see if I can help. I do this on 4 wheels as well as when riding a bike.

What has happened to good ole plain MANNERS?

As far as London is concerned, the last time I went there it was like the United Nations walking down the High Street in Brixton! Perhaps Anglo-Saxon Christian manners aren't in great demand in these here parts now? Having worked/travelled widely throughout Africa I can see why this is happening. Pity....

We bikers need to stick together. It's in our own interests to keep this practice alive.

If you don't want to tip your head to passing bikers then that's fine BUT at least acknowledge others who do it as a polite gesture.

I rode a scooter for 3 years and was acknowledged only once by another rider. A BMW 1200GS rider gave me a nod at the lights.

Have had a Triumph Bonneville now for 12 months and get a few nods around the city now and again.
I find out of the city most riders will nod except Harley riders. HD riders seem to almost look slightly away from you so that they can pretend you don't even exist. A bloody rude and arrogant bunch, in my area anyway.

Greetings Kentfallen

I've seen various versions of this on the web over the years, it won't answer your question but at least you can have a smile :)

Top 10 Reasons why riders don't wave back...

Regards

Ian J

Thanks Ian - Great find.

Hilarious!

In fact it was so good I pinched it -

Hayabusa.oRg

Top Ten Reasons Why Harley Riders Don't Wave Back

10. Afraid it will invalidate warranty
9. Leather and studs make it too heavy to raise arm
8. Refuse to wave to anyone whose bike is already paid for
7. Afraid to let go of handlebars because they might vibrate off
6. Rushing wind would blow scabs off the new tattoos
5. Angry because just took out second mortgage to pay luxury tax on new Harley
4. Just discovered the fine print in owner's manual and realized H-D is partially owned by Honda
3. Can't tell if other riders are waving or just reaching to cover their ears like everyone else
2. Remembers the last time a Harley rider waved back, he impaled his hand on spiked helmet
1. They're too tired from spending hours polishing all that chrome to lift their arms.

Top Ten Reasons Why Gold Wing Riders Riders Don't Wave Back

10. Wasn't sure whether other rider was waving or making an obscene gesture
9. Afraid might get frostbite if hand is removed from heated grip
8. Has arthritis and the past 400 miles have made it difficult to raise arm
7. Reflection from etched windshield momentarily blinded him
6. The espresso machine just finished
5. Was actually asleep when other rider waved
4. Was in a three-way conference call with stockbroker and accessories dealer
3. Was distracted by odd shaped blip on radar screen
2. Was simultaneously adjusting the air suspension, seat height, programmable CD player, seat temperature, and satellite
navigation system
1. Couldn't find the "auto wave back" button on dashboard

Top Ten Reasons Why Sportbikers Riders Riders Don't Wave Back

10. They have not been riding long enough to know they're supposed to
9. They're going too fast to have time enough to register the movement and respond
8. You weren't wearing bright enough gear
7. If they stick their arm out going that fast they'll rip it out of the socket
6. They're too occupied with trying to get rid of their chicken strips
5. They look way too cool with both hands on the bars or they don't want to unbalance themselves while standing on the tank
4. Their skin tight-Kevlar-ballistic-nylon-kangaroo-leather suits prevent any position other than fetal
3. Raising an arm allows bugs into the armholes of their tank tops
2. It's too hard to do one-handed stoppies
1. They were too busy slipping their flip-flop back on

Top Ten Reasons Why BMW Riders Riders Don't Wave Back

10. New Aerostich suit too stiff to raise arm
9. Removing a hand from the bars is considered "bad form."
8. Your bike isn't weird enough looking to justify acknowledgment.
7. Too sore from an 800-mile day on a stock "comfort" seat.
6. Too busy programming the GPS, monitoring radar, listening to iPod, XM, and talking on the cell phone.
5. He's an Iron Butt rider and you're not!
4. Wires from Gerbings is too short.
3. You're not riding the "right kind" of BMW.
2. You haven't been properly introduced.
1. Afraid it will be misinterpreted as a friendly gesture.

Top Ten Reasons Why Dual Purpose Riders Don't Wave Back

10. Off road elbow guards, chest protector, fanny pack, drink system binds them up.
9. Bark busters and gummy grips slows the hand from raising quickly.
7. Just can't take time out from doing that 10 mile wheelie through traffic.
9. He's passing street bikes off road on the right @ 60mph through the trees & rocks.
6. Too busy checking his enduro roll chart doing mental time/mile math so he wont blow the next check point.
5. Can't see other bikers through his 20 layers of tear off's.
4. The dude only recognizes Honda's with every after market race part known to man.
3. His killer 2 inch tall knobies vibrate so bad vision is obscured.
2. The chin guard on his full face helmet sticks out so much it blocks his view.
1. He's got his Mauna Kea 200 race face on and can't be bothered.

Top Ten Reasons Why Moped & Ruckus Riders Don't Wave Back

10. Scared ****less to remove a hand from the bar's.
9.Never road this fast on a two wheel anything before.
8. Full focus three inches from front tire.
7. Freaked out on the extreme right side of the road dogging broken beer bottles and car accident trash.
6. Don't want to lose their grocery's in plastic bags hanging from the bar's.
5. Won't deter from the full attention military riding position.
4. Their mother & grandmother told them it was very, very dangerous.
3. Think it's hoodlum stunt riding.
2. Don't want to chance getting a reckless driving ticket.
1. 25 mph is too damn fast to try something stupid like that.

Harley & other cruiser riders haven't been too bad around here this season.

The "too good to wave" crew seem to be, um, BMW riders almost without exception..... although I do personally know a couple of exceptions locally, but I don't live in a typical PNW town.......

I ride a Harley and a Triumph Tiger Explorer and always give a nod to other riders. I'll always stop to help out another rider if they're in trouble. I've been riding since 1976 and it's just what I do.

When I was 17 I binned my 250 and a guy stopped on a CB750, helped me sort myself out, gave me a lift back to the garage where I worked (15 miles or so) and I never forgot that.

I'm not a people person, far from it, but to me helping out another rider is just the done thing and the nodding.......well that just kind of happens now, bit like Pavlov's dog. I even have to stop myself doing it when I'm in the wife's car.

Funny thing though, less people respond when I'm on the Harley - and I don't dress up like a pirate as many Harley riders seem to like to do - but I still nod. I can't help it.

My names Graham and.......I'm a compulsive nodder.

I always wave or nod. I too have noticed the lessening numbers doing so but I'm always chuffed when someone waves back. I'll keep at it :thumbup1:

Here's a virtual nod to one and all


Bajagrngo

The bikers salute is alive and well in France, and even moped riders give a nod from time to time. Scoot riders are a breed apart. I always acknowledge and am sometimes first with the dropped hand. One thing I always do is to nod an acknowledgement to a driver waiting at a turn out to say thanks for waiting.

I was out on a bimble last Sunday, and the Gendarmerie were out in force on what I must assume was a training day on their FJR1300's. 6 of them came tearing past me in a 70kph limit ( I was right on the money:innocent:) and each one of them stuck out a right leg in ackowledgement as they went past, quite extraordinary!:mchappy:

Shake a leg
 

I've used that acknowledgement technique a lot while riding in France, after experiencing it from French registered riders, and have used it in other countries on the continent.

Riding in the UK I have found myself doing the same thing, but using the left leg, when passing vehicles.
IMO it is a good "system" because the hands are not removed from the bars.

I always wave at Brit bike cops. Nice bunch. They always look surprised - well body language says so - I imagine the expressions under their lids :) and they always wave back. Good!

Meaning
 

The acknowledgement of our sharing the road on two + wheels is as natural as saying, "hello."
For myself, it signifies that I will pull over if you are stuck or broke down.
Driving on the 'right'side of the road makes that acknowledgement easier .
Obviously safety first. The concentration on the turn, intersection, or the bike takes an obvious priority And then there are times when I just happen to be focused elsewhere.

I've always found the bike cops a decent bunch around here. 9 times out of 10 they wave first, and when they stop for a chat they are genuine bike enthusiasts

Charlie

Kyrgyzstan
 

Here in Kyrgyzstan the wave is something new. If you wave at folks on the street most of them will just look at funny. Bikers seem to be more into it. I will honk, wave, or nod at anyone. It does not matter to me if they ride an old rusty moped or a brand new BMW. But what I have seen now is more of a division. My son rides a sport bike and I ride an old, slow, KLR! A lot of his buddies don't think to wave at me, that is till I get a hold of them. The mopeds don't wave at the bikes nor the bikers to the mopedist.... I just wave at them all and keep on keeping on. :scooter:
Mac

I try to wave or nod, but frankly, with the way many cagers drive I'm usually too busy focusing my attention on the surrounding road to bother!

Alas this has been something that has been becoming more and more common, my own take on this is that for a lot of these people it is just another mode of transport the same as there BMW/MERC/ YADDA,YADDA,YADDA. I wave and nod to anyone and there brother, I don't care if they drive a nifty 50 or a full blown custom street fighter, I have found that a lot of the teenagers on mopeds don't get it but at least smile, where as the type who don't, look at you like they wouldn't pee on you if you where on fire, hay-ho it's they're loss not ours, keep the smile on your face, wave to the guy on that model of ducati that you don't like and ride it like you stole it.:mchappy:

A few quick observations:

If OP is looking for my nod, he's going to be disappointed. I wave--always have, probably always will--and since I'm looking for waves I might not notice his nod. Sound worth complaining about? I don't think so.

I lived for almost two decades in an area where car drivers wave at each other--there are only a few cars, and it's expected. Much of the rural USA still does this. During the summer there was always an influx of people who didn't know local customs, and didn't wave. We used to complain a lot about this (although before the internet, so not publicly).

I was raised to say hello to people I pass on foot or bicycle--walking on trails, on sidewalks, on rural roads. In much of the world, people don't say hello--in fact, in some places I've trekked it's expressly forbidden to even show any sign that you've seen the other person, particularly between men and women. In other places, people stop, indulge in elaborate handshakes and greetings, and spend time establishing where each party comes from, what their family affiliations are, and who they might know in common.

In other words, there are no universal rules. What's more, customs change over time, and no one posting here is the final arbiter of what's right or wrong, what's to be considered appropriate or not. In fact, many of us here are getting on in years, and the ones who actually do make the rules are much younger. Anyone hoping to live happily during their declining years (sic) had best get used to it, and focus more on doing what works for them rather than worrying about whether others live up to their standards.

Barely even two cents' worth, but I'll accept voluntary contributions.

Mark

Always try and nod to oncoming bikers/scooterists etc, i'm not bothered what people are riding to be honest, me thinks we are too much of a minority to be splitting ourselves into divisions anyway. On the plod nod i do this as well and more than often get one back.

Here in the good ol USA, Los angeles area, Almost all bikers (with exception to Harley, Indian and Goldwing) wave at each other, no matter what size the bike is. It will happen going the same direction on the frwy, mountain roads, deserted desert highways. Everybody tends to wave unless conditions don't warrant it. We also pat the top of our helmets to warn for upcoming problems like a cop or an accident.

Interesting...

I'm probably biased but I think that in Portugal and Spain I'm more frequently ignored by small bikes. Maybe because they're more frequently ridden by high school kids :)

Very Seldom a GS or Triumph, etc ignores a compliment (normally we just open our left hand)

All the best

jazzmd

Fingers and Feet now
 

I live in the Czech Republic and here every biker always give each other the downward pointing left finger as we pass each other its a common salut as in a lot of Europe. Another thing we do here is that when a driver pulls over to let a biker past we stick out our right boot to say thank you. Drivers here are very biker friendly and about 75% will move over to let you pass safely so its only right that you encourage the behaviour and say thank you. Good manners on the road goes a long way to making the roads safer. We do not discriminate between scooters, cruisers or sports if you are on two wheels then we are all members the same club - bikers.?c?:scooter::scooter: