Does anyone else have this conflict?
 

Apologies if this isn't in tune with the light-hearted nature of this area of the HUBB, but I need to get something off my chest, and hopefully get someones response.

I have this internal conflict that I'm trying to resolve, and it's all about the technology and money and the gadgetry I'm hoarding for my big trip.

I think it started when I was reading one of the (many) threads attacking the long way round boys. People were pretty quick to highlight the shortcomings of the way they did this trip, and keen to knock the kit and substantial backup resource they had for their journey.
GPS navigation stuff, satellite phones, winnebago following them round, survival courses etc.

I thought this was interesting, and made me think of the perspective we have on other peoples behaviour.
Imagine the thoughts of an elderly woman in rural Africa somewhere, walking miles to collect water. What is she going to think, when one of us overlanders rides past with £500 touratech panniers and the like?

Could this be comparable to our thoughts about the LWR folks?

This started something in my head about what I really NEED for the trip. It's often said that you can do the trip on ANY bike, and the most important thing is to just go and enjoy it. But there seem to be many more GS bikes riding RTW than the more moderate bikes.

So what I'm struggling with is this;

On the one hand the trip I'm planning (round the world) is a significant undertaking. To use anything but the best gear I can get hold of would be silly.

On the other hand the spirit of this niche of travelling is adventure. I'd like the feel of my trip to be a bit less about consumerism, and more about immaterial experience.
I've got a few bikes, why not grab my argos tent and everyday toolkit and leave. Get stuff when there's an actual need for it, and make do.

Sorry for the rant. I'm not expecting anyone to have to have the answer, just interested to hear other peoples take on this point.

Thank you

The truth is there is no 'right' or 'wrong' bike. The very fact that there can be so much discussion about what to get means that it is all 6 of one and half a dozen of teh other.

The trick is to get a bike that with which you are happy. It ought to be comfy and have a high chance of surviving the journey. If you like teh bike and find that it does what you want and expect then the likely hood is you will both get along fine.

Even seemingly unimportant things can make a tremendous difference to your riding experience.
an inch or so seat height for instance. My own bike a bmw, has never let me down and is a slab crusher par excellence..But I do not like it. and will change it next year (hopefully), Changing the front tyre from and Avon to a metzler made a huge difference and has (for me) improved teh handling and steering no end. Some one else might prefer it the other way round.

I think you need to have a reasonable range, and that is better done with fuel economy than by using a big tank. Cheaper and less weight.

I agree, entering some little third world village on a bike that looks like it just warped in from tatooine will get you a different reception than chugging in on something that technologically looks slighly familiar. My own opinion is the more technologically advanced the equipment the smaller the spanner needed to bugger up the works.

Others may argue differently based on their own experiences. In the end you pays your money and takes your chance. The best thing to do in my opinion is set up an account with a good worldwide shipper of parts for your bike.. and hope you wont need him.

Its all what you experience, seeing people walk for miles and miles from Mexico I cant help thinking where are they going and why I bet when they see me pass they ask. Why is a rich gringo spending all that time and money riding down here hot and sweaty sleeping in tent he can get a house here for far less and gust take a bus.

The long way down had people pay for the trip and all the gear plus paid the every one. You like the Idea of advertising for people and paying $40,000 to do it or getting 2 million to do the same thing.

As far packing all that gear I see people pack way to much most of time, I do and I take less than most. The beast kit depends on what you think is best are touratech panniers the best? I dont think so and I got a set.

I have had the same feelings Im going places where there are vary poor people that are getting on gust fine, all there belongs dont amount to price of gear I got in my tank bag. Bit of a let down deflates the ego. Why do I need all this when they do not.

As far a GS Vs any thing else I rather have a old r80 than a new r1200. BMW knows there target market well off people that like shinny funny looking bikes in the show room. Seen people ride 150cc bikes a lot ferther on a trip than I have ever gone. Can not see not riding some enduro but more than few have.

We get in the head we need this bit and that kit with this bike we dont but it feels right when we do. Im putting off a trip because I dont have my panniers mounted to the racks before that It was I dint have racks. I dont need any of that I can strap a duffel bag to the back and ride all a around the Americas did the USA with one. People less skill and experiance and money have done it. Fear, maybe loss of a ok paying job selling all I have to fund and free my self has more to with than I like to let my self know.

If anyone HAS to have a 1200GS and a BMW clown suit to go with it ,because they THINK that is what they need to tour the world ,then I would feel very sorry for that individual .
Pick any bike you like , someone, somewhere will have ridden one for a long distance .
Are there more GSs touring the world than any other type ? I seriously doubt it .
Are other bikes more moderate than the GS ? What does that mean ? How does a 990 KTM or a VStrom rate ?Or an R1 ?
Reliability is the most important factor in choosing a bike , your ability to get yourself going again when it , inevitably , fails is another factor .
You don't need the latest technology .

You will encounter poorer folks than you , the world is not fair , there's not much you can do about it .Maybe give away your expensive Touratwat panniers and have some made by a local craftsman - help THEIR local economy .Give the old woman a ride on the back of your bike , save her legs a bit -eh !

Who decides what is the best gear ? Do you judge by price ? Is the most expensive the best ? How much of it do you really NEED ?

You could probably buy a used 250 and tour three continents for the price of a new 1200GS.
But maybe maintaining an image is important to you ,so an expensive big bike is essential ?
These are just questions that spring to my mind and not a personal dig at you .

Myself ? I'd just chose a simple reliable bike that would cruise at the speeds I like to travel , buy my gear to suit my purpose for the cheapest I could find it and not worry about what others think I should have . But I kind of like going against the norm , it's more fun that way.

I'm with Dodger....
 

I ride a 650, but most of my touring has been on a old '72 Honda XL250... a beast! :scooter:

But for my last trip in SA, I chose a bike that were a very common in the areas we were traveling. I don't want to be so far removed from the people that I can't really interact with them. And the best part: I took next to nothing in spare parts because every town had what I might need!

Yes, I took a $100 GPS because I was traveling roads (and trails) that were not on the maps, but that was it for the high-techness. 43 days, 3 countries, all costs (including the bike): $3,000. At that rate I could have done RTW for the price of one BMW! :mchappy:

If I have grasped the catalyst for this thread correctly, the question you are asking is not whether or not you should take the best gear, but what should be the motivation for doing it. If its to throw yourself into all that the world has to offer and do so in the most comfortable and the least stress-free way then spend the money and take all the high spec gear that makes it possible. And there is nothing wrong with that, whether or not another overlander may have a negative opinion of your choices.

Just like the LWR guys. They wanted to do something, and wanted to do it in a way that they were probably more accustomed to. Aside from the money they may have made from doing it, I like to think that the idea did originally start as an adventure between two friends. The important thing, is the fact that they got off their arse and did something. One hopes that even with all their backup and gear, they have a better understanding of the countries and the people they came across than those people that sit at home on their arses and judge.

The key is to choose your motivation and accept the pros and the cons that go hand in hand. On one flip of the coin, if you take all the gear and accept the fact that you are going to come across countries, cities, communities, individuals that dont have a 100th of the gear/clothes/food you are using or carrying. On the other side, take the basics and accept there may be difficulties to overcome along the way....

I personally would go for the latter.....I mean we may hate the "difficulties" when they are upon us, but if it wasnt for the fact, say that you didnt have the right sized socket, and you have to walk a couple of miles to a village and find something or someone to help, you wouldnt have half the experiences. Or indeed (and I not advocating not taking GPS!), the simple things of asking for directions (which can always be fun and totally unproductive in a country where English is not widely spoken), or getting a local to try and understand a map that is foreign to them.

I think you have to be careful not to travel round the world on your motobike, in a bubble, unless of course thats what pickles your onion. Its like some people prefer to do package tours and some people prefer to just get the flight. I am of the opinon that the more things you posess that can solve your problems for you, the more likely you are to remain detached from the country or the people. Of course you need to take essentials, but what is essential to one person is not to another.

I have no idea if I am the right tracks here, but maybe something in my post makes sense?!

Char

I don’t think she knows the difference between a 1200GSA and a Vespa and I’m pretty sure she doesn’t care about Touratechs prices.

But she knows that you are white and probably carry more money then she will see in her entire life :devil2:

http://www.actiontouring.com/eth1.gif

But, park a 2008 R1200GS in Yellow with full Touratech electronics alongside an 1980 R100GS in white with a map taped to the tank in say Dehli and the latter will sort of blend in with all the scooters and Bullets. You could turn up where the lady in your picture lives on the bus, dressed in any disguise you like and you'll still be known as an ultra rich westerner. It's the places inbetween where you might be able to lay low.

To me, you need to know why you have the technology. I have a rather nice company car. Lots of people will think i'm a flash ******* but when it comes down to it the "flash" car with 120000 miles on it makes more sense to the company than a different model that won't take the strain as well. Its the same if you use your bike gear as tools. If the best GPS and a BMW works, I say go for it. If you've only got it to insulate yourself from the world and are only doing the RTW for bragging rights in the pub when you get back, I think you are in the wrong line of travel. Likewise I wouldn't suggest travelling on a C90 navigating with your wrist watch and a page torn out of an altlas unless the getting lost, breaking down, meeting people thing is part of your trip.

It's a balance IMHO. Take tools with you, not status symbols and you'll be happy.

Andy

There is no bus going to the place where the lady lives.

I responded to the part “Imagine the thoughts of an elderly woman in rural Africa somewhere, walking miles to collect water. What is she going to think, when one of us overlanders rides past with £500 touratech panniers and the like?”

So far I’ve only been in India by foot/taxi/plane but I don’t think they care to much if I drive a 1200GSA (which I wouldn’t) or a XT.

I took a 2 grand bike and a lot of people outside of Europe thought that it must have cost a lot more, even had a cop who refused to believe that it didn't cost 20,000 dollars (assuming it must be the same thing as Ewan and Charleys).

For me the number one bike criteria is that it must be fixable/maintainable anywhere, so anything with carbs. True you have to carry spare throttle springs, o-rings, needles and jets etc for a long trip, but along with spare valve shims and collets this is less space than a spare computer type box thing. Annoyingly I also have to take belts (belt driven cams) - might go with something that has chain driven cams (Yam) or gear-driven (Honda dommie?) next time.

Dressing the bike down with scruffy luggage, duck tape, crash damage and splattered insects helps keep the 'flashy factor' to a minimum.

You will encounter poorer folks than you , the world is not fair , there's not much you can do about it .Maybe give away your expensive Touratwat panniers and have some made by a local craftsman - help THEIR local economy .Give the old woman a ride on the back of your bike , save her legs a bit -eh!

'Touratwat panniers'..? Is that your view of the people that buy them or the people that sell them? maybe you have similar ideas on BMW...... 'Big Macho Wanker' or XTe..... 'Xtra Tight Everywhere'...? We have different ideas for a lot of things especially when it comes to spending money but if somebody wants to buy the best they can afford or think they need, then go for it. they'll learn through good and bad advice and experiences. Why don't you stand outside the Ferrari garage, approach the customers and offer them a ford instead? Buying good quality kit doesn't have to be expensive but it does have to be good quality and if that means 'Touratwat' then so be it.
Your perfectly correct in saying the world isn't fair, it isn't and I've seen enough of it to agree with you but surely travelling around it on ANY kind of bike is still contributing to the nation your in? (Unless your flying your food/fuel in by plane). I'm going off topic a bit here I know but it is annoying when the trip of a lifetime for people gets mixed up with an enviromental awareness routine. Am I selfish in thinking I'm not here to save the world but to see it from the ground up whether I've spent 2 or 20 grand on the costs?

The 'Argos tent' - an icon of the English summer. I love 'em. Not sure why they're classed as 'weekend' and 'festival' tents though? Maybe the rain's not as wet if you're only out for a couple of nights.

Maybe that's a clue to the 'conflict' you speak of. What does someone need for a third, fourth and fifth day that they didn't actually need for a weekend? Or, looking at it from a different angle, if something happened on a 'weekend', how would someone cope, not having everything with them?

Is this the path to packing enlightenment? I'm gonna ponder that right now.:mellow:

edit: just wanted to add that I thought charlottes post made a lot of sense to me.:cool4:

Whether it be Charlotte, you, the guys from LWR, etc.; what's we should focus on here are the similarities and not try to create unnecessary conflict with differences.

We all want to see things different than our everyday experience and how we choose to defines our adventure/holiday. Going out and doing it is what is important as it requires a bit of faith in fate...our collective imagination will never match the hand dealt by reality.

So when you shove off for your big adventure, no matter how much you plan, you buy, you farkle...at the end of the day its the soft stuff that's the probably the most important to pack away: a good attitude, humility, open mind, spirit of adventure, etc.

Lastly, relative to gear/farkle...buy what you need to get you on the road...and have faith that opportunity will present itself for the rest of it...

Whoops touched a raw nerve here -eh ?

A lot of the Touratwat stuff is vastly overpriced and marginally useful [ not all mind you ] , but if it "floats your boat" , more power to you .
My main point was to NOT be a lemming or a techno snob with your equipment purchases and ,if your conscience bothers you ,to make MORE use of the goods and services available in the countries you visit .

I think Charlotte Goose hit the nail on the head.

What you need on an overland RTW bike trip is a bike and some sort of luggage arangement, hard or soft.

That is it. Which bike is up to you and there is no righ or wrong answer, just right or wrong for you...

If you intend to rough it a bit then you also need shelter, and a means of cooking.
If you want to be able to fix your bike by the side of the road you need some basic decent tools.
Then, you should probably get a spare pair of underwear, in case you eat out, or need to soak up an oil spill.

After that, take what you want, that you tihnk will make the trip more fun, less hassle or both. I agree that it is better to travel light if you can, but light is subjective.

What ever you buy, get cheap, get expensive; does not matter, as long as you are happy with the price and its good kit as you will rely on it. If you don't, it's not worth taking...

all you need is a moto,
half the balls you'll think you'll need
and a sense of humour

Appreciated
 

Thanks for the feedback everyone. Good to hear other opinions, and glad we've managed to maintain some glimmer of light-heartedness!

Oldbmw, I see your point with bike choice. What I should have mentioned is that I'm well into the bike preparation phase, and unlikely to change my bike now.
In case it makes any difference, it's an 03 XR650L. Which I hope covers all the suggested criteria you mentioned.. Apart from the seat height thing, but I'm freakishly tall :-)

DLbiten I like the possibly revealing last comment you made, and certainly I'm not about to shell out on top of the range panniers.
I'm extremely fortunate in having access to the materials and equipment I need, to make (probably terrible and more expensive) panniers for myself. Dull and self indulgent post on this subject to follow when I've finished!

Dodger your post made me grin. I'd like to go completely off topic and drone on about another of my insecurities; what the effect of (any kind) of travelling actually has on a host country, but I'll restrain myself.
I like your ethos on travel bike selection, and while I don't question the truth in your words, there seem to be more people that follow this policy on paper than actually travel on this kind of bike. ?

charapashanperu, I think you've described the kind of travel attitude that many daydream about, and I've got a lot of respect for you, for having the spirit to do it in this way.

Charlotte Goose, see you in the pub tomorrow. You owe me a pint.

AliBaba you know what I mean about the flash gear, but I see your point.

Andy, I can see what you're saying about the quality kit, but I'm slowly realising that the getting lost etc is what I'm interested in. The highlight of my last trip in Cambodia was changing a tyre, on the side of the road, with two spanners and 30+ onlookers.
The idea of getting back without any difficulties or breakdowns (unlikely as it is) scares me more than not going at all.
Like everyone's said, it is personal perspective.

Henryuk, I whole-heartedly agree with the dressing down, that's got to be a winner.

Geoff, what kind of panniers do you have? And how would you rate these panniers in terms of cost/durability?

Teflon I don't think this theory is water-tight. Surely the frequency with which you use something relates loosely in some way to its expected lifetime?
If a Chinese Kymco bike's good enough to ride to the shops and back, is it equally suitable for a multi continent journey?

MotoEdde, I agree with you absolutely. But surely there's some greater effect that you impart by going about your adventure in a hobo manor, as opposed to a space trooper?
Maybe I'm missing the point entirely, and your individual nature determines the kit you'll use, and to alter the actual equipment this doesn't change you any more than it would to buy your groceries from Fortman and Mason, rather than lidl!?



Thank you for your thought everyone.
If anyone's still reading this drivel, please have a look at the camping weekend we're organising for August. Lets fight it out in the flesh, rather than hiding behind our tft screens

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...-weekend-35394

What was the bet between you and Charlotte?

I think a great point about this thread was made, whatever bike and kit you have dress it down as much as you can, the less you stand out the better.

I took a nearly new bike to Africa but I got it good and muddy first and got chain lube all over the thing, I had gaffa tape on the tank and all sorts of shit to make it look less desirable.

Hey when you get home you can always tart it up again.

Bugger. Have I got this all wrong? My Modus Operandi in one sentence.

Joel

WHy?
 

Ok, so they're my italics there , but I'm wondering what the motivation is for not standing out? As has already been said, you'll stand out anyway because of the colour of your skin, or the fact you wear a helmet or the fact there's only one of you on a motorbike and not an enitre family and two goats or simply the language, unless you're on a bike tour of your own country, you'll stick out like a sore thumb.

So given the fact you're different, why are you trying to blend in? Is it that word up there - desirable. And if it is what are you saying about the people in the countries you ride through? That you can't trust them maybe? That they'll club you over the head and nick your gear?

I have the same quandary as the OP about GPS, I look at it and think it's hugely useful and it'll tell me where to go so Idon't have to stop and pull out maps and compass, or ask people, but then I remind myself just how recent an invention it is, and just how many thousand, millions of people have travelled huge distances without it.

Just Go
 

All the passing travellers when they get around my neck of the woods all say they same thing "I wish I hadn,t packed all this crap I,ll never use".Transport,creditcard pick the rest up as you go.
Al theturtleshead

You mean to say you've got a wristwatch?! And it works?!

Bugger - some people have all the best kit.

Well, I still have two months before I actually set off, maybe I will manage to get one before then!

Like the Visas, the Basha, the IDP, the copies of docs, and a dozen other things that I should possess, but am to laissez faire to have sorted out.:cool4:

Joel

We moved to France from England last year and we try to fit in and "look" French but it simply doesn't work.
We drive down the road and have a little competition to work out who is French and who is British.
The Brits stand out, they look different, they act differently, they dress differently.
So if we can't move a few hundred miles without standing out then in deepest Africa you've got no chance.
But at the end of the day, does it really matter ?
Good thread by the way, thank you.

Hustler I know what you mean, I've been here nearly 11 years and even though all my clothes are bought in France, I have a French haircut and a French ciggie hanging out the corner of my mouth, there are still some people who will greet me with "oh you're English" and I can't quite work out how they know.

I fully agree with this Dodger Dude!
Keep It Simple.
If you have a 1200 BMW and lets say, an electronic part or controller fails in Africa, you are as they say..... screwed!
If on the other hand you have an older model bike, with carbs, points, atc, if it goes wrong, the chances are you can find SOMETHING to fit it. ( I used a set of points and a condenser off a Skoda to make my BMW R80 run again when the Points spring broke....... Ok i needed to file it a bit here and there, make it fit, it didnt run very well, but it RAN. it lasted 3000 miles untill I got to a place where I could get BMW parts sent to me from Motobins....)

But the choice is yours.

All I can say is BE AN INDIVIDUAL.... who cares what you ride, or where, or how far? just ride!:thumbup1:

Kit
 

Hi all, excellent thread and thanks as always to the Originals for setting up HU. I normally TRY to accept others' opinions but....Metal Mule panniers are FAR superior to the touratech ones. There is no question. They have been seen to act as crash bars in crashes and slides down the road at high speeds. I feel if anyone thinks otherwise they've not yet seen the M. Mules. Also for me to travel round the world I'd want to try and make it a journey. Take the most suitable bike for learning as you go/ meeting people and really travelling. That means slowly. Seriously it's the Honda C90. Reliable, small enough to carry, spares everywhere, simple and totally adequate if seeing and experiencing the journey is the aim. Finally I think the idea is to take what would be no loss if lost, wrecked or stolen. If the cheap as chips C90 expires take a bus or whatever till you find another cheapo. Meet the locals. I'm no different from the others in zooming past too fast but I try to remember that for me the reason for travelling is the actual travelling! Fair enough to others but Celtic and I seem to see it similarly. Whatever, enjoy your trips, Linzi.

Honda C90s are lovely bikes, but if you dont have one you can always travel slower on your bigger bike, by relaxed throttle control. Argos tents are just fine too. No need for a mountain quality tent if you are camping by the road. And if once or twice your cheap tent is used in stormy conditions, well that's no reason to spend a fortune on a mountain tent.

There is a tendency around to buy the most expensive kit, as if that guaranteed quality. I notice how many bust a gut to buy hideously overpriced boxes - Jeez, theyre only boxes!

Charlotte or Warthog were right - that African village woman doesnt know or care what bike you ride - but you're white and therefore rich. But none of us can substitute for any country's nonexistent social security system or negate the effects of rampant, unrestrained capitalism. To think otherwise is naive and sentimental.

However none of the above should stop us travelling on the bike.

Or on the other hand it could be rampant unrestrained Marxist-Leninist ideology or rampant unrestrained absolute monarchy . Or the people running the countries could merely be rampant unrestrained crooks . You can't blame capitalism for all the worlds's woes .

But anyway the average traveller can't do much about it except to observe and learn.
Hopefully their travel will have a more profound effect upon them and their way of thinking rather than just ticking off the list of "bought the gear- been there -seen that- got drunk -got the tee shirt" ethos that seems to appeal to many .

Just in case this idea catches on with the techno-crowd I'm now looking for a supplier of goretex and titanium bound atlases and digital-but-with-hands, nuclear powered, satelite set wrist watches. C90 type bikes with huge spotlights have been available since about 1963, so just need to source TCK-80's in smaller sizes.

Of course, if I had any real bottle, perhaps I'd learn the local langauge and ask directions?

As for looking English, my greatest moment of ligustic pride was when a German mistook my accent for Swiss. Perhaps I'll stick to the GPS!

Andy

All this makes me wonder if Tourattwat make a wicker shopping basket for the front of a 90 .
Maybe not wicker ,but maybe Woven Titanium !!!!!!!!!!!!!

You seem to have a real emotional down on German products, Dod. Any special reason? Why is a BMW suit "a clown suit"?

Feel free to speak your mind - I dont have any of these products, but I thought there must be a reason for your hatred. I usually think your posts are as balanced as you can make them, but this stuff is wacky.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...r/toyclown.jpg


My dear Cammiknickers ,you are always jumping to conclusions .
German products are usually excellent , I've had a few very good German rifles for instance and the new GS800 looks a fine bike .
It just seems that Touratech are out to rob and I don't think very highly of that .

If you compare the striped clown suit worn by the McDonalds clown and the multi colour striped Beemer suits [such as the Savannah ] you will see that there is ,indeed , a similarity .
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...r/savannah.jpg
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...der/ronald.jpg
When you factor in that BMW suits were worn by those Long Way Round comedians [ and I mean that in a friendly way ] ,it all adds up to a good description [ it appeals to my "wacky" sense of humour anyway ] .

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...lownjacket.jpg
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...andcharley.jpg
So there you are Cammi ,no hatred ,just a tongue in cheek dig at BMW and Touratech ,who are big players in the Adv Bike market and can handle a little bit of light hearted criticism - I hope .

Now settle down and have another bottle of Chateau Denis Brown Trousers ,don't get your knickers in a twist and relax .Save your pocket money and one day ,you too , will be able to afford a Touratwat purse holder for your bike.
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...motorcycle.jpg

PS . Nice legs !

As an "educator" and supposedly in possesion of at least a small amount of intelligence ,I would have thought that you might be aware that the world is split into time zones .
But your imagination is still unbounded - venom and hate ?- Cammi old bean please exercise restraint .

Also I am surprised that you didn't recognise that picture of yourself rushing to work one morning ,or were you rushing to open up your new bar "the chocolate teapot " .
I like the expansion chamber on your bike - a nice touch !

I'm so sorry that I have frightened you away ,have fun.