Death of the big adventure bike
 

I am sure this will get a lot of comments , but as well travelled ,i feel able to talk about this .................... How many 1250's do you see off road ?
Last year i did 6000 miles in Maroc on a cb 500 x and i can say it was the best bike i have ever taken there !
Smaller bikes let you enjoy the views and are easy to handle .............. big ones get you there fast !! ......any point in that ? ?c?

It's nice to get there fast and comfortable, IF you have spare tyres to fit when you get there.

Otherwise I am doing 90-100kph and nursing my knobblies.

It's an endless cycle of fashion for the Starbucks crowd and the manufacturers marketing men. F650 because it won the Dakar. Not enough power? R1250GS SssssirrrrrR? Behemoth too heavy SssssirrrrrR? F800GS would suit you SssssirrrrrR. Not enough power? K1900GS out soon.....

Everytime they create another Moto Guzzi Quota it cycles back to a Himalayan then starts again.

There is no right answer but if there was the manufacturers wouldn't like the lost opportunity to sell you bigger, faster, lighter, simpler....

I'd agree the CB500X is closest on current technology, but the Tenere self jacking swing arm thing might prove that old and allow bigger, or Enfield might drag 40 HP out of 480cc or....

Andy

it's all about skills, you can enjoy big bikes as well as small
and when you got proper skills they're more universal and rewarding then small ones.




so, definitely it's not death fd big adventure bikes, just the opposite.

fantastic riding on new tenere T7

Depends on where you are and how big your support team is, I guess.

I see video like that and think: moto travelers don't really ride like that. The idea is to get where you're going with minimal risk of injury.

No one in their right mind is out there sliding the rear around the corner on a obscure lonely pass in a mountainous little country with no rescue teams and no hospitals.

So, if you want to take the back roads you'd be better off taking a smaller bike.

just my opinion, of course............shu

Death of the big adventure bike
 

I feel you are looking through the lense of what you use a bike for.

The big adventure bikes, IMO, are awesome sports tourers that can handle dirt roads. This would explain why they are so popular and one of the leading sellers for companies like BMW.

Everything is a compromise. Choose the bike with the least compromises for your use. I had a CB500x and my R1200GSA and the GS handled formed and secondary/forestry roads much better than the X. The GS does have Wilburs which probably helped.

In the end the X didn’t suit the adventures that I use it for. I doubt even post covid I will be going anywhere that the X would be worth the compromises it has over the GS. I won’t be going to Africa or South America, will be doing Japan, Russia, Mongolia and Europe. The GS suits that role well I think.

Have fun and stay safe.

:)

EDIT: just wanted to say that the enjoyment you get is not just the trip but the bike and I think we fall in love with a certain kind of bike. I was fine for years on enduro bikes and small road bikes. But then I rode big BMW’s and Yamaha’s for work and power and comfort became like a drug maybe LOL...

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you're right what proves you don't really need very light bike because you're not going to take risk anyway hence big bike will be more practical overall.

The big bikes aren't going anywhere if you look at the sales stats.

They're flying out and still massively outselling anything else.

However, it's fantastic to see the smaller bikes gaining popularity.

I work PT at a Suzuki/Kawasaki dealer. They have a new Ninja 400 !!! I got all giddy as when I was 18, the ZXR400 was all I ever wanted.

Yamaha did a great thing with the Yamaha 700 and KTM with the 790 but I'd still love to see something at the 400-500cc lightweight class which isn't just made for racing.

You have to understand that the guy riding the KTM is in a hurry. He was off on an adventure (it is the 1190 Adventure after all) and he realised that he had forgotten all his luggage so he was hurrying home to get his pyjamas and toothbrush.

end of BIG adventure bikes
 

OK .............. is an adveture doing 650 miles through spain on fast duel roads........... or say going to maroc and enjoying the the fantastic views etc........Big aventure bikes are just very fast touring machines too big to take on small roads all day and wold you want to ?
T700
WR 250 R
XT600E
NOW.. These are more like it
How many people can handle a biggy in mud and ruts ?
:clap:

For me an adventure is whatever takes you outside your normal reality - for some that will include outside the comfort zone. For some that will be going over vast distances, for others it will be going through mud, over ruts through jungles etc. This could be in your own country - your home county - or the other side of the world. Each person’s definition of adventure is unique to them.

I'm also a fan of bikes in that class and waiting to try the new KTM 390 adventure.

Only seen one review to date so it's a little unknown to me at the moment.

Bla bla bla

An adventure is whatever and wherever you want it to be.
An adventure can be as tough or as soft as you want it to be.
One person's adventure might be someone else's ride down to the shops.

Ditto adventure bikes.

The term "Adventure bike" is just an invention of magazine journalists to cover something they have never understood. How can a Moto Guzzi Quota (restyled touring bike) be an alternative to a Tenere (specifically designed on-off road) or CRF-250 (repurposed MX).

Forget advice from idiots who write the same "600cc sports tourer shootout in Spain" every year to get the free autumn holiday.

Forget US MX champions getting the back end out in Baja (Isn't it odd he always passes the tripod mounted camera and drone operator at sunset). When he has to stop to open the fifth gate in three miles and check the right of way, it is going to fall off the stand, then he'll be glad it's light and he's 6 foot 7 (plus the camera guys can help).

You need to list the features you find useful, then go through the spec sheets with an open mind. For me there is a limit on seat height, I want tyre choice, a range over 200 miles and a proven history of reliability. While I can ride 300Kg, I won't enjoy picking it up, I am not into fitness stuff. I also detest people trying to sell me a lifestyle and the governments "bribe the grease monkey" old bike punishment scheme (MOT). I live far enough away from the good roads to want the ability to use motorways. I have better things to spend £10K on.

I was torn between the Himalayan and CB500X. I was trading a CB500F** with three times the average mileage (oh but it was a delight to watch BMW's suited lizard turn a funny colour when told a 15000 mile bike had not seen a dealer since 600 and I intended to do the same if I bought a G310GS).

My most adventurous trips? Done on a Triumph Bonneville*

*OMG scream MCN, that's a neo-classic, should be polished more than ridden and only used for shots selling beard oil, lumberjack shirts and coffee the cat threw up.

**Oh the humanity, MCN say. 15000 miles on a learner/commuter bike! 600 mile days in a Scotland!! Goat tracks with grass down the middle!! You need a Goldwing towing a trailer with a KTM on it.

Andy

To me bikes are "horses for courses"

The long runs on bitumen around Australia and general touring the R1200GS has proved to be very good (if a little heavy when loaded for long tours but covers distances comfortably).

When I have done desert runs or "longer outback runs" and over seas shipping (eg NZ) I have used my Suzuki DR 650. I would have significant difficulty picking up a loaded GS in the sand! Both bikes have suited my riding for some time.

Hi Mal

Everytime I go past the honda dealer I look at the AG-XR and think that would be awesome for serious RTW stuff.

Cheers
D


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all those willing to practice and develop their skills on motorcycle.

Don't mix wr250r with T7 - new tenere is still a big, heavy bike

buy CB 500 X . Make sure you get latest bike with big front wheel

Note to self:

Not this bike with the big front wheel.

Did you have anything you wanted to add to the dialogue?

My thoughts exactly.........shu

Death of the big "adventure" bike? ...extremely unlikely. Motorcycles are machines and different people use them for different purposes and for reasons all their own.

Adventure means different things to different people. Some may not be interested in riding washed out mud pits and goat tracks.

I would personally choose something smaller for any future "adventure" trip, just to have the flexibility of being able to go places by myself where my "large" F750GS might get me into trouble if no help is available.

Each bike has its' own unique values and there is no overarching "best" bike.

:rofl:

Not that I recall. The Adventure Motorcyclists Handbook surely refers to motorcyclists having adventures? IIRC the bike survey section in my ancient copy is called "Bikes suitable for the big trip" and the first line says they are only common choices. The Adventurous Motorcyclists Handbook would have course have been more accurate but people might have thought it was something like 50 Shades of Grey only with more chases.

I hope Mr. Scott hasn't been induced to change this accurate approach in the later editions? If so, does it now list the GPS coordinates of Starbucks? :rofl:

Andy

Death of the big adventure bike
 

I hope to be living in Japan for a couple of years from next year and am thinking of a second hand Honda X-Adv 750.

New Ohlins, off the shelf protection and a Giant Loop SaddleBag would make an awesome machine for me - middle fifties and with a dodgy new right knee. At least when I fall off I wont get a leg caught as easily.

Options baby. Life is awesome.


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Trouble is I’ve been adding dialogue to this conversation since I bought my 1100gs in 1998.
The majority of the answers to the OP run along the same lines, my lines too - but someone still keeps asking the question.
I suspect most of them are windup merchants.

I guess I should just ignore posts like this doh

Carry on bier

:thumbup1:

Think of it as sitting around having beers with a bunch of mates. Some of the conversation interests you, some doesn’t, but your chilling just the same.

I find these convo’s interesting, particularly when our wings have been clipped with the virus.

Cheers mate


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As the man says, it's horses for courses. I've ridden little dirt bikes, I know how good they are on dirt, and what a PITA they are on a long road trip. I've ridden big bikes that make big distance easy, but I wouldn't want to take them on anything more challenging than a gravel track.

I am not going to knock either of them as tools for a job, why would I? They're different bikes for different purposes.

To me, "adventure riding" is about going anywhere, not necessarily off road but with the capability to do that, and bearing in mind that touring does involve distance work. I need a bike that will do both, not one that excels at one but is terrible at the other.

About the OP, it's hard to see how anyone needs a bike with 100+ bhp weighing in at 600 lbs. That may well be an evolutionary dead end but doesn't mean we should all be riding round on 250s. There is a balance to be struck.

That, I suppose, goes right to the heart of the whole 'adventure' riding debate. There is a kind of unwritten pecking order in these things where offroad is assumed to be at the top of the greasy pole - "when the tarmac ends the adventure starts", that kind of thing. And therefore, by definition, some huge great tank of a bike can't do any more than play at 'adventure riding'. All you're getting when you buy one is some marketing parody based on fooling some of the people all of the time. The fact that a lot of them are very good at transporting people long distances in comfort (i.e. touring) is dismissed because they're sold as 'adventure bikes' and 'adventure' in the sense it's implied isn't really within their skill set.

https://i.postimg.cc/02tDmKQD/GoldWing.jpg

My current 100bhp+, 600lbs 'adventure' bike that is the worst vehicle of any type I've ever used off road but has taken me on trips that certainly count as an adventure.

Paragraph 2 would have gone on to muse on the contradiction that people keep asking for some kind of baby bear's porridge (in the Goldilocks sense) adventure bike - something that's the ideal balance of all the characteristics - weight, power etc, but the manufacturers keeps serving up daddy or mummy bears stuff - lumpy, bland, too hot, too cold etc. Everything that comes along that seems to shine brightly for a while always seems to end up with feet of clay - the CCM GP450, the Himmy, and going back a bit, the XT660Z. There is a lot more that could be said but it's too hot and I can't be bothered to write it.

Well I couldn’t help myself but take another look and thanks Homer, of course you’re right - my apologies for being flippant.

It still remains that everyone on this thread has just about said it all but I will just flip the coin over - imho there is no such thing as an adventure bike, sports bikes or touring bikes...... there are however sporty riders, adventurous riders, tourers etc.

There are plenty of people who’ve ridden RTW on sports bikes including Mongolia and the Stans. Also people who have done the Dalton and Dempster on Harleys - not adventure bikes but adventurous people.
We’ve all seen the video of the rider riding the IOM circuit on Mad Sunday on a BMW GS and roasting all the sports bikes - a sporty rider undoubtedly.
20 years ago we did a tour of Germany, Czech, Slovakia, Hungary and back - my wife was riding a 600 Bandit, loaded with camping gear - not sold as a touring bike.

"How many 1250's do you see off road ?"

Well, not many, but then I'm not often off-road.

However, I saw an absolute SHEDLOAD on the roads of Lapland when I was there last week on my TDM900.

Forgive me but the thread title and the thread OP are a bit non sequitur.

There is no doubt that your smaller bike is a better choice for that sort of trip unless you know your potatoes and can ride accordingly. My "smaller bike" is an XL600V and that is still pretty heavy.

But, in the same way that most Land Cruisers never see trails, most 1250s never see dirt.

And the marketeers know that full well.

They make a bike that can munch miles of tarmac in considerable comfort, at considerable speed, with a considerable luggage capacity, all the while giving the owner the feeling that they could, if they chose to, go anywhere with their bike.

And why not? If their bike lets them feel freer, feel like all their worries are back at home, then I think their bike is an excellent investment.

Most people buy stuff because of how it makes them feel, rather than purely for what it can do. Even on here you get a traveller asking for recommendations. They get pointed at the "on paper" perfect bike for their needs, but they are often distracted by something that they simply like more.

That's one of the best feelings about riding: being on something that you love riding, even if it's not the most logical choice.

So, no, I don't think the big ADV is dead.

I'd have to disagree with the poster....if u said sportsbikes and 600 race reps were dead , I'd agree cos apart from v4 and V2 panagales our shop doesn't sell any . However we sell shed loads of ktms naked and adv , teneres, multistradas , streetfighters and pcx125s lol
Given the general age of current riders seems to be late 40s and upwards , they cant fit on sportsbikes anymore and unless you track them they are totally irrelevant in today's busy camera infested roads . Who needs a 600 rep when you could have a mid sized ktm that will spank it on a b road and not leave you needing a neck massage at the rides end.....

You can also forget the new fireblades....
No one wants one . As for dedicated adventure bikes , that is small cc , lightweight etc they arent big sellers, other then the 700 tenere , as customers arent interested in them . If u r lucky enough to go to places afar then u r in a happy minority.......as I would guess less then 5% of people I deal with do that sort of thing in fact it's probably less then that . Most bikes seem to be pcp for a couple of years , used for a bit of fun then chopped in when something else comes along
.

So what is an adventure bike? And what is a big bike? And what is a big adventure bike then? Is there a unison understanding and agreement about these terms? I dont think so....and if so the value of this discussion isnt very high.

Any bike can be an adventure bike - some people say. Any trip, one day long - 100 kms, one week trip - 2-3000 kms long can be an adventure. Right or not? You dont have to ride London to Sydney or Alaska to Ushuaia to do an adventure? Right or not? So any bike can be an adventure bike and any trip can be an adventure. Yes I personally think so and like this attitude towards bikes and riding.

And what is a big bike then? Any unison agreement and understanding about the term «big bike»? I dont think so. For example - I spend a good bit of time in Thailand where I ride a 250 cc bike. When I ride to the local shopping mall to buy my groceries Im always shown to the big bike parking as everything over 150 cc is considered a big bike down there. And big bikes have a different parking lot than those smaller ones 100-125 cc. And its annoying as its further away from the entrance than the regular small motorbike parking doh
So I have started to use my gf old Honda Wave 100 cc on my grocery shopping trips as I both can park closer to the entrance and it has a shopping basket mounted...:clap:
On the other hand - when I bought my first «big bike» here in Norway and it was a Honda Transalp 600 cc most of my friends and surroundings commented - hey mate thats a womans bike, hey mate - when are to going to buy a real bike ?, yeh its a good beginners bike but you soon will want a bigger decent bike (oh - how wrong they were...) etc etc. So here a 600 cc bike isnt considered a big bike, not even a «real» bike.

Anyhow - I dont think theres any danger that big bikes or big adventure bikes will be extinct in the near or even distant future. The good thing as Touring Ted mentioned earlier in this thread is that many manufacturers have started making smaller cc bikes that can be used as travel bikes the last 5-6 years or so. And by that I mean bikes in the 150-500 cc range. And that is great thing as the choices and selections are getting better. If only the manufacturers could make the smaller cc bikes a bit lighter. Most new 250-500 cc bikes still weigh much more than the old Suzuki Dr650 - which I consider one of the best, if not the best alternative and compromise for a adventure/overland/travel bike....:rolleyes2:

..'Horses 4 Courses'....
 

This topic is like a sushi bar and goes round in circles and gets plucked off for a fresh bite every now and then....
I'm stuck on the fence with this one, at later 50's and still very able I much prefer the feel of a bigger bike on tarmac and my smaller bike (500cc) for the looser stuff. I'm a builder of bikes so I've built two adventure bikes that are at polar opposites of the weight scale. One for solo trips and one for pillion adventures.

Neither bike does everything perfect and am I willing to make sacrifices on a trip....YES of course. Am i worried about the weight and can I pick it up or not..... NO..!!

Big 'ADV' bikes and aggressive sales staff are going nowhere and will continue to punt bikes out the door while the 'Horses for Courses' comment is the valid statement here....

I'm not getting any younger but as long as my biking mojo remains at high output I'm gonna stay with big bikes !!!

One more comment tho, my smaller adv build uses the CB500F engine, I had to use it for a commute of around 120 miles of pure slab a couple of weeks ago and it amazes me how that little engine can soak up the miles and sit at 70mph without flinching one iota, ironically the same speed my GS12 feels comfy at these days.....

I own a 2 wheel Boss Hoss with a 350 chevy engine in it that's gone across Canada and the USA, a 1980 Harley FLT bagger that's been to Alaska, a 2008 susuki vstrom that's gone to from Canada to south America and a 2006 susuki DRZ400 that I ride from Arizona into the Mountains of Mexico and BaJa.
Every time I get on my bike for a day or more it is an adventure no matter where I go. So the bike you are on does not have the adventure. The adventure will open up before you.